Ep. 68 — 208 "Family" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 2)

Mitch Fey from the US and Rob Pigott from the US join Alyssa for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 208 “Family”. Very important bits include: the challenges of translating from book to script to screen, how each faction across the Continent turns against Ciri, a punishment of biblical proportions, Yennefer’s willing sacrifice, speculation about the future of the elves, a waterfall of cliffhangers, and our reaction to Season 2 dropping The Biggest Honking Secret in the Witcher series.

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

MITCH: I do love Graham McTavish. I think it’s funny that he’s in every single fantasy thing, like ever. He’s in The Hobbit. He’s in the new Game of Thrones show. He’s in Outlander. Um, he’s–he’s in this too now. It’s like, what–what can this man not get into? Like, he’ll find a way to get into something else, I’m sure.

ALYSSA: He’s like Henry Cavill in which, like, I struggle to imagine him in like a modern film.

MITCH: Well, I feel like whenever, like, they’re casting and they’re like, “we just need a really tall, cool, old-looking dude with a beard”, he’s like the ultimate man that fits that description.

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Introduction

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.

[You Are What You Love Guest Appearance]

[WitcherFlix Episode: December 22, 2022]

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[Episode Details]

As for this episode, Mitch and Rob Pigott from the US for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 208 “Family”. Join us as we discuss the challenges of translating from book to script to screen, how each faction across the Continent turns against Ciri, a punishment of biblical proportions, Yennefer’s willing sacrifice, speculation about the future of the elves, a waterfall of cliffhangers, and our reaction to Season 2 dropping The Biggest Honking Secret in the Witcher series.

In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix walks us what we can expect from ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’.

Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 208 “Family” (Part 2).

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Voleth Meir had possessed Ciri and began slaughtering the witchers in Kaer Morhen.

In the next scene, in Ciri's dream, she questions Mousesack about her bloodline. Geralt’s pleas begins to break through her dream when Ciri reunites with her parents. Given everything that Ciri has learned, especially in the last season, suddenly, we're more familiar with the source of her powers, with everything that Triss and Vesemir discovered, with the feainnewedd along the trail, and Ciri offering to give up her blood to create new witchers. So she has a lot of questions about it and she at least knows enough to, you know, formulate the right question that she would want to ask Mousesack. But this Mousesack in the dream just kind of brushes her off and it's just like, oh, I'll tell you later, all the women in your family are extraordinary. I wonder how even dream Mousesack knows that. If all of the people in the dream know what Voleth Meir knows or if it really is a figment of Ciri's imagination and she doesn't even know more than that? Therefore Mousesack can’t know more than that. It's worth, I think, exploring and hopefully, we'll get a chance to really dig into that, as Ciri learns more about herself as well.

ROB: Yeah. And I took away from it, the people in actual Ciri's like dream purgatory are basically her memories of these people. So they don't know anything more than she knows. Maybe in the past, Ciri did have this conversation with Mousesack and asked about her parents or bloodline, it happened off-screen or something. That's how I kind of got it. I feel like, because I feel like Voleth Meir kind of constructed everything around Ciri's actual memories and everything. That's why it feels so nostalgic, for the actual people that are talking in her dream are—are reflections of yeah—of her own memories of Mousesack, of Calanthe. This is the scene where basically Geralt's voice kind of pierces into actual Ciri's, like, purgatory. And for like five seconds his face transforms into some type of creature. 

ALYSSA: Oh, yeah.

ROB: What creature did he transform into?

ALYSSA: So if you remember from season one, he transferred into the doppelganger Mousesack.

ROB: Oh, yeah, that's right.

ALYSSA: Which again, shows how golden this really is. Because in season one, that man was straight-up gray. And now he's like a little bit peached. I think it was like you said that reality breaking through, that she knows I think on some level that this isn't real, and she can see the aftermath of how Mousesack’s life ended.

ROB: Yeah, I totally forgot about the doppelganger.

MITCH: I guess that tells you the impact that that plotline had on Season One.

ROB: I guess. I mean, maybe I probably was just not paying attention to that moment. I just forgot. I mean, I really liked Adam Levy's Mousesack. And I—I totally forgot about the doppelganger stuff, though. Oh, my God.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Mitch, what did you think of this?

MITCH: I think what I like about this final conflict is that we can see that Geralt is trying to break into her psyche. And he's having to do this with his words, you know. Geralt, in the past, has been able to sort his way through conflicts by his sheer ability and fighting and physical prowess. But in order to solve this problem, he—obviously he can't kill Ciri. And everybody else is dealing with the monsters. So he has to use his skills that he's learned throughout the season, his dad skills, it's basically a test of how good of a dad he can be. He's trying to convince her that, you know, her family is with him, and not with these people in her past. So I like that, I like how the way that Geralt has to solve this conflict is the conflict that he's been dealing with the whole—throughout the whole season. And that's, you know, helping to raise this teenage girl and the struggles that come with that. I think it goes back to the—to the core relationships that Lauren was talking about when she started the show, where, you know, the—the shows about a lost family and people reconnecting, even if somebody isn't related by blood, they can still be a family. And so I think this is the thing that Geralt is trying to do in this whole sequence. And I think that's cool.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And I think when it comes to Geralt and Ciri's relationship, and the way that Geralt handles himself in the situation, we had spoken about this all the way in episode 201 with Elsa. Elsa had brought up the parallels between Geralt and Ciri, Vesemir and Ciri, as well as Nivellen and Vereena in the very first episode. Apparently, Elsa had watched—rewatched episode one, back to back with episode eight. And she felt that episode one really outlined or foreshadowed the choice that Geralt would have to make by the end of the season, which is really that question of like, what do you do when somebody who you love hurts other people? And in contrast to the way that they handled Eskel in episode two, Geralt wants to save Ciri and he wants to acknowledge, of course, that what's happening is terrible, but he steals the opportunity to save her. And so he's going to take as many measures as he can to make sure he could do this without killing her. So it's—it's very interesting to see that theme broken out, you know, all the way through the—through the season, and have it come to a conclusion here. In the next scene, Francesca leaves the elves on a raid through Redania killing all of the babies. This is probably the reason why we saw Francesca have that, like weird, you know, calm to her the last time we saw her in Cintra. She has taken some of her followers and has decided to get revenge on people who are completely unrelated to, you know the scheming of—of the kings here on the continent. She apparently goes door to door and uses her magic to kill all the babies in the city. And it's interesting because her brother Gage is kind of like following her around saying like, there are other ways. And she says, no. And she comes back to what she had told him at the beginning of the season. “What has been need not always be”, and then she kills everybody. So yeah, it's a very—it's a very dark turn for Francesca, for all the hope that she had this season, for that journey to end very suddenly here.

MITCH: It's very old testament of hers. 

ALYSSA: Yes.

ROB: Literally wrote down on my notes. Extremely biblical.

MITCH: Let my people go, you know?

ROB: Yeah. She's like, one of the plagues that's brought down by God on the people of I—I Is this Redania to be—what's–what city does she kill all the babies in?

ALYSSA: I'm not sure exactly what city.  It could be Tretogor, you know, who knows? It could just be some random village somewhere. 

ROB: Sure, yeah.

ALYSSA: I don't think that they said in the episode, but they believe it to be Redania because that's what Dara had—had assumed. 

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: He left his position, as a Redanian spy. And his assumption was that you know, Dijkstra did this. You're right, it does bring me back to like Prince of Egypt and the plagues.

MITCH:  Yeah, I mean, I feel in the future, you know, they're going to continue making Francesca a somewhat sympathetic character. You're probably going to be still scenes from her point of view, at least in the filmatic language of point of view. And so I think we're still going to be putting the situations further on where we're going to see things from her perspective. But then we're also going to have to think about oh, she did kill, like, many babies, which—which is traditionally not really forgivable.

ROB: Yeah. 

MITCH: Especially in storytelling. 

ROB: Yeah. A hundred percent. I will say though, the sequences, in terms of the editing, I felt like was really well done, because it kind of starts inside this bedroom of this house that we have no idea who these people are, this caretaker kind of nursing this baby, and we just see this really red, distinctive mark, like swell up on this baby's chest, and then it cuts to the outside with Francesca and all the elves walking through the town as she kind of marks these babies for death. And while she's trying to be convinced by her brother to not do this, and then the music just swells, Francesca puts her arms up, and then brings it down, and then it's silent. And then just you hear nothing but she's—these wailing screams of agony from all of these mothers. That then transitions back to Ciri’s looking up as the screams kind of echo around. Just purely terms of editing are really, like well-constructed scenes.

ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. And I wonder if it does still play into the Voleth Meir plotline, because of course we know that Voleth Meir was specifically using Fringilla’s revenge, Francesca's heartache to—to leave the hut. So I wonder if like, this is also what feeds into Ciri’s power to Voleth Meir's power at the keep, because Francesca has an exponential amount of pain, aside from her own. And because it's still related to the pregnancy that was gifted to her by Voleth Meir. I wonder if there's still a connection to that, as well. 

ROB: It seems like it. I mean, thematically and plot-wise, it seems like that's definitely like part of it because, this is calling back to quote later on that Geralt says to all the witchers, where it's like our hate is the pain that she needs to grow stronger. And I think obviously Francesca is inflicting a lot of pain on a lot of people and that is how Voleth Meir gets stronger.

ALYSSA: And that quote actually happens in the—in the next scene as well. Voleth Meir summons the largest basilisk yet and Geralt fights it on the ramparts. Vesemir stabs Ciri, but Voleth Meir is able to heal herself easily in Ciri's body. In the dream, Ciri reunites with her parents, Pavetta and Duny, despite the witcher's appeals for her to fight the possession. As they realize that Voleth Meir won't leave Ciri, Yennefer offers herself to the demon instead, casting a spell that releases Ciri from Voleth Meir and the princess chooses Geralt. This is you know the—the conclusion of this battle, Voleth Meir brings out like this enormous basilisk and Geralt goes and like one v. one’s it outside. In the meantime, though, there's still all of this death, and Vesemir is looking around and he's seeing the remains, the partial remains in some cases, of his sons.

ROB: Yeah, there's a really good close-up. In this scene, a really great cut from the close-up of a possessed Ciri looking at an injured Vesemir to the closeup of the basilisk going after Geralt, in this scene, and I feel like that's also once again, I feel like it's showing that this show is a lot more confident in their CGI creatures, you know to make that type of cut, cutting between an actual human actor and then like their spawn, this like basilisk creature, and yeah, the fight between Geralt and the basilisk really calls back to once again, I think, Betrayer Moon in episode three of season one.

ALYSSA: The Striga.

ROB: The Striga, yeah. It's another knockdown, like, drag-out fight where Geralt gets tossed around and has to, like, use his wits and use his, like, skills as a witcher to, like, burn the basilisk after he gets, like, crushed underneath, like, its claw. And then he, like, stabs it through the snout. It's the ultimate badass move, just like throws it off the side of the cliff. The way the basilisk, like, falls off the side of Kaer Morhen, like, crashing into the ground,  reminds me a little bit of the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog in The Two Towers.

MITCH: I was thinking that too. Yeah. 

ROB: And I feel like that was a slight call back to that fight with the way that the Basilisk kind of crashes down onto the ground the way the Balrog does. Yeah, also from being stabbed by a big sword.

MITCH: It's interesting that they would have the basilisk take Geralt outside to separate him from the main conflict that he's trying to solve. Makes the scene a bit more tense. But I think it's—it's awesome, makes the blocking in the scene more interesting, because so far the scene has been kind of contained in this one room. And once we take it out of the room, obviously when you add another setting, things become far more expensive. When you add it out to the larger vista, the outdoors, it—makes the scale of the last fight a bit bigger, and a bit more cinematic. And I think it makes the blocking more interesting when you can change your setting just a bit and move your characters to different locations.

ROB: And—and the fight is in like the snowy backdrop, you know of Kaer Morhen, so it just adds a lot more texture.

MITCH: Yeah.

ROB: And atmosphere to the fight as well. Because a lot of the fights in season two were kind of in, like, overcast fields, or, like, in, like,  dimly lit locations. And so this is one of the few fights where we kind of–it's, like bright, the sun is shining. It's just kind of a—this very kind of brutal fight. I totally agree with what you mentioned, I think—I think it adds a lot of atmosphere.

MITCH: I love snow in movies. Snow in, like, movies and TV just looks so great for me. I think there's something vulnerable about being out in the snow because it's so cold, but you've decided to be outside. 

ALYSSA: Yeah. 

MITCH: So whatever's happening in this scene is important enough that all of you are standing out in the snow. And snow is a very serene landscape. It's pretty, you know?

ALYSSA: Well, because I think the last basilisk that comes out is white.

MITCH: To fight the white wolf too.

ALYSSA: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So there are certainly some parallels there. While Geralt is attempting to kill this basilisk, which he eventually does, by like, hurtling it out, like into the courtyard from, like, over a massive drop from this bridge. Ciri, you know, reunites with her parents, Pavetta and Duny, who we last saw, you know, at the beginning of season one. And we saw them briefly, I think in her dream sequence in the Dol Durza, I think around episode five or episode six. They're begging for her to stay and she—she hasn't seen them since she was a child. So it's so surreal for her to see them, you know, as they are, as an adult for her as well. She can't believe it. And again, I think she had spent so long with Mousesack and—and Calanthe, that when Mousesack says like, ah, your father's gonna want to dance. She's like, what? It's a heartbreaking, I think, kind of reunion because as I said before, we know that this can't last.

ROB: And she does choose to stay with her family in that moment, which I thought was–was a great kind of, like, subverting of the typical kind of fantasy tropes of a scene like this, like she makes the quote-unquote, “easy choice”. And I think that just ratchets up the tension, you know, in a really nice way. Because I do think the—the actors that play Ciri’s parents here, Pavetta and Duny, it's nice to see them again. They do a good job of not only convincing Ciri but in a way kind of convincing us to kind of, like, stay with them. And don't worry about the pain of the past, you can just be with us and we can be a happy family together.

ALYSSA: And it's interesting because that choice comes as Geralt and the other witchers are literally asking her to fight it, come back, like we're your family, and she hears that she can feel the dream shattering, but she chooses to—to face her parents and her mother's you know teary eyes and say like, yes, I will stay with you. And the interesting thing is that her lines in the dream match very closely with lines that Voleth Meir says back to Geralt, in like, that “I'm not leaving, I'm not going anywhere”. It's that nice parallel again, between that fantasy world and reality.

MITCH: Yeah. And I think the reality represents a—a world of responsibility as well. Going back to Geralt doesn't mean—only mean that she's going back to a different family, but she's going back to all these responsibilities as a person who's being chased after by multiple different factions, and now she has to learn these mysterious powers that she has. And it's a lot easier to make this one decision. And when you're a teenager, you make a lot of wrong decisions. Sometimes it's up to the adults in your life to lead you down the right path.

ALYSSA: Yeah, and I mean, it becomes very clear that Voleth Meir can't leave because she needs a host. Previously, it was the hut, now it's Ciri. And Yennefer tosses aside her little potion of Golden Oriole and uses the glass to cut her wrists again, which you know, feels full-circle moment for Yennefer because we do know that she used to self-harm before her transformation when she was at Aretuza. And she begins to recite a spell in an Elder Speech and offers herself to the demon instead. So this is what I assume is the extraction or separation spell that she'd spoken about before, but it causes Voleth Meir's essence to leave Ciri, which then causes the dreamscape to collapse. Everything starts to kind of disappear into dust very much like, you know, Avengers Endgame.

ROB: I was literally thinking about Infinity War. Yes.

ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. 

ROB: Spoiler alert, the ending of Infinity War, half the heroes get dissolved into dust along with the rest of the universe. 

ALYSSA: Yeah, I feel like if you don't know about that, yet, you probably don't care. So I hope we're not spoiling that for anybody. But yeah, so everybody starts disappearing into dust first, she sees Calanthe and Mousesack and then Pavetta and Duny. There's one person who doesn't turn into dust. 

ROB: Yes.

ALYSSA: And the person that's left is, flippin' Duny.

MITCH: It's the hedgehog powers. He's,—he's resistant to it.

ALYSSA: Uhhhhh, that's— that is one way of putting it. But we'll discover, of course, at the end of the episode, why that is the case. But it's such a—it's a very nice detail I think? So that on a rewatch, or if you know why this is happening, it's very clear in the moment that like, there's a reason for this—this effects decision.

ROB: Yeah. And I really like the fact that you know, Geralt's voice is just echoing louder and louder in the background of Ciri's mind as this is happening. And his family with him and the other Witchers and Yennefer. It's not perfect, but it is real. Thought that was a really great line. That's probably my favorite line of the whole episode. It really summed up I think, the dynamic between Geralt, Ciri, and Yennefer, in the show, in the books, and in the games, I think, perfectly.

MITCH: I think a big portion of this scene was for redemption for Yennefer. Obviously, she makes quite a big mistake earlier on in the season. Now, again, I think people were pretty upset at her for making this mistake. And well, rightfully so I think you're supposed to be upset at her that she made this mistake. And like Geralt and Yennefer's relationship, is kind of like this, or at least I feel like this is where they're going, where Geralt and Yennefer are always going to want each other, but they may never have each other to do the decisions that they make throughout the series, you know? And especially in these first two seasons, they've both made decisions that have royally pissed off the other. It always kind of ends up with the relationship being a bit fraught. So it makes sense to me, I think, and it makes sense with Yennefer's character, why she would do something like that. But in the act of ultimate self-sacrifice, and I think that is definitely enough to redeem her in my eyes of her actions in this season. And I think it kind of sets up an interesting plotline in the next season to see how—how is she going to regain Ciri's trust, even though she does do this one thing. They've kind of created this conflict that I think is actually a pretty interesting one. And again, people kind of talk about this, like, it's a problem like, well, how is Ciri ever going to trust her again? And I'm like, I don't know. I guess that's like, how—I—I think the show's gonna answer that question, guys. Like that's—that's just drama, I guess.

ROB: Yeah, for real. I mean, you can't have an interesting show if you don't have character conflict. 

MITCH: Yeah. 

ROB: And I think it's—if that's a real complaint that people have about the season, that's kind of dumb in my opinion. I feel like you—she definitely, like–I'm not gonna say, like, redeems herself. But I think in a way, she begins the process of going on that journey of redeeming herself– 

MITCH: Yeah. 

ROB: –for what happened in season two?  I think her decision, yes, it's selfish. Yes, it's a bad decision. But I think that's a very human decision.

ALYSSA: In the next scene, with Geralt and Yennefer's help, Ciri summons a portal to release Voleth Meir to another world, just in time to witness her manifest as a member of the Wild Hunt. Yennefer has her magic back and heals the remaining witchers. Geralt resolves to take Ciri from the keep, in order to protect her from people on the continent who would use her. As we finish up the battle, they basically just go and release the spider back into the wild. And it's—it definitely likes, starts to bring things back to the plotlines we are familiar with, right? From both the games, as well as the books. We end up on another sphere, as we later discover, and Voleth Meir just leaves Yennefer's body of her own accord. So we see that happen and we get you to know more of like the starry-eyed daughter of chaos, like, come be part of us, dadadadada. And Ciri immediately teleports her, Geralt, and Yen back to Kaer Morhen.

ROB: Yeah, I called this moment the Thanos-esque setup moment for future seasons. The whole introduction of the Wild Hunt, like, I feel like this is their–I think Lauren actually said this in an interview–like, this, is their kind of likeThanos big bad introduction, like a setup for people that don't know the Wild Hunt from the books or the games. The Wild Hunt obviously do not appear in Blood of Elves, it's really kind of them threading this plotline early enough so that when the Wild Hunt hopefully does show up, you know, we have a kind of very kind of like, eerie and creepy intro to them, you know. And the costume design for them is pretty reminiscent of the games of Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, there definitely is some differences because they didn't want to 100% you know, rip off the game design. But there definitely is some similarities in the costuming, but it still is its own thing, thankfully. And yeah, the Wild Hunt, they're here and they're ready to—to hunt Ciri across space and time. And that's, uh— it's exciting. It'll be exciting to see how the show handles, these characters and this, this kind of plotline.

MITCH: Yeah. When they show the Wild Hunt like that, I can definitely see the influence of The Witcher 3, not in—not just their design, but like their use. I won't spoil the books, but the Wild Hunt is used far differently than the games use them. So I'm interested to see what exactly, how exactly they're going to use the Wild Hunt in this show. Yeah, I won't—I won't spoil the books, but it is— it is a bit different than how I feel they were interpreted from the—at least used in the novels. The games, I feel like amplified their popularity by a long shot.

ALYSSA: I'm excited to dive more into the lore of them as the characters discover more about them too. Because of course, like, it teeters on the edge of like mythology and reality, right? Like whether or not, the Wild Hunt and the Wraiths of Morhogg are really a thing or just a figment of, like, collective imagination. And then we finally get to see them here and Geralt confirms to Ciri that like yes, this is the Wild Hunt, these are the Wraiths of Morhogg, and um, they comin’ after you, girl. And as we said, the end of this episode really is about wrapping up this past season and looking ahead to next season as well. Yan comes back and heals Coen and the remaining witchers. And Vesemir asks Geralt what he's going to do. And he does feel a little guilty that you know, Geralt was right, he was able to heal her with the act of love. And Geralt is already aware that all of these people know about Ciri's powers and he needs to keep her on the move in order to keep her safe. And this leads into a delightful little collection of scenes in which everybody is, is after Ciri.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we continue our discussion, we’re going to hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, Mitch, Rob, and I will continue our discussion of “Family”.

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody.

Only about one month to go until The Witcher spinoff-miniseries ‘Blood Origin’ will see its release on Netflix. According to the streaming service it is "set in an elven world 1200 years before the time of Geralt, Yennefer, and Ciri […]. ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’ will tell a tale lost to history: the creation of the first prototype Witcher, and the events that led to the pivotal Conjunction of the Spheres, when the worlds of monsters, men, and elves merged to become one." The show's synposis adds: "More than a thousand years before the events of “The Witcher,” seven outcasts in an Elven world join forces in a quest against an all-powerful empire."

Netflix has released a new teaser trailer that showed beautiful Icelandic landscapes, a glimpse into the new characters and some action scenes. But mainly the show's three elven protagonists are in the trailer's spotlight. The mysterious Scian (played by Michelle Yeoh) from the Ghost Clan, the bard Éile from the Raven Clan (who will be played by Sophia Brown), and the warrior Fjall from the Dog Clan (portrayed by Laurence O'Fuarian).

The official character description of Scian tells that she is "the very last of her nomadic tribe of sword-elves. No one comes close to her artistry with the blade, and no one carries as much loss within their heart." Éile, whose voice can be heard throughout the trailer, is "an elite warrior blessed with the voice of a goddess". She "has left her clan and position as Queen’s guardian to follow her heart as a nomadic musician." The character description for Fjall reads as follows "Born into a clan of warriors sworn to protect a king, Fjall carries a deep scar within: the death of a loved one who fell in battle trying to save him."

Beside Scian, Éile and Fjall there will be many more character in Blood Origin, of course. We already know one of these characters all to well: Jaskier (also played by Joey Batey) will be in Blood Origin as well.

According to Redanian Intelligence we know in what way Jaskier will appear in "Blood Origin" even though the spinoff is actually set 1,200 years before the world of the Witcher. The Redanian Intelligence report says that Jaskier will make an appearance in the show's prologue that takes place in Jaskier's times. There the bard sings abo ut the actual plot in Blood Origin. A character in the crowd interrupts Jaskier and tells him that his version of the story is wrong. She proceeds to tell the correct story. This character is the elf Seanchai (played by Minnie Driver). She is the show's narrator.

Blood Origin will consist of four episodes and will premiere on Netflix as a Christmas treat on December 25.

Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Discussion

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Ciri, Yennefer, and the witchers had broken Ciri out of Voleth Meir’s possession and released the demon into her own sphere.

In this little collection of four scenes, in the first one, Tissaia and the monarchs of the continent convene and agree to kill Ciri for the good of the Northern Kingdoms. In the second, Rience and Lydia meet in a tavern. Lydia's face has been disfigured by the vial in the last episode, and reiterate their plans to hunt down Ciri while the continent descends into war. In the third scene and a campfire clearing, Francesca vows for justice against the humans, against her brother's advice. The scene is interrupted by Istredd, who announces that Ciri is Aen Seidhe, or a Bearer of Elder Blood, shocking the elves and leading Francesca to believe that Ciri is the one who Ithlinne prophesized, meaning she could save the elves. And in the last, fourth scene in Redania, Philippa tells Dijkstra that the continent has learned of Ciri's survival. Dijkstra asks the sorceress to bring him the bard. So all of these scenes just really drive home how much of a pawn Ciri is on the continental game board. She is wanted for all sorts of reasons. The witchers had wanted her for her blood, the Northern Kingdoms want to kill her because now she was a distraction. The elves believe that she's this princess who was promised. And Nilfgaard wants something with her, with her powers. And then there's also Rience and Lydia, who want her for some unknown benefactor. So some people want to marry her. Some people want to kill her. Some people want to use her as a battery. And this poor girl is just trying to live her life.

MITCH: I'm sure they all make up their differences by the end.

ALYSSA: Off into the sunset.

MITCH: Yeah, I think you know, I think that if they learn to compromise, and, you know, agree to disagree, I think yeah, I think that they can accomplish many things together.

ALYSSA: Shake hands, spit on it. Yeah.

MITCH: But obviously, yeah, they're just trying to set up who is going to be the main antagonists for the next season. Who's going to be antagonizing Ciri, who's going after her? And it's fun because it's like you're pairing all of these people who are–have their own goals, including the Wild Hunt. And it kind of ends with just, you know, Geralt and Yennefer. So we only got like three people against many people who have their own goals and objectives. I think that's fun. And I do love Graham McTavish. And I think it's funny that he's in every single fantasy thing, like ever. He's in The Hobbit. He's in the new Game of Thrones show. He's in Outlander. What can this man not get into?

ROB: Yeah, he's—he's great. And I think this is also the first scene, the scene of the Brotherhood and the Council. They're talking about Ciri and what to do with Ciri and putting a bounty on her and whoever protects her. I mean, this is the first scene that we've seen Meve, right?

ALYSSA: Yeah, so there's actually a number of characters who we meet here, all of which are kings and queens of, of the Northern Kingdoms with the exception of Tissaia. So, this is actually very, very similar to the small council that we saw some time in Blood of Elves. And they come to the same conclusion here as they did in the books, which is to kill her. The—the rulers of the Northern Kingdoms at this point in the books are very distrusting of their mages. But Tissaia is here, she's the one that spills the beans that Ciri’s still alive to Foltest of Temeria, Queen Meve of Lyria, King Ethain of Cidaris, King Henselt of Kaedwen, and King Demavend of Aedirn. We aren't actually, like, properly introduced to all of these people. A lot of their names did come from the credits of the show. But the interesting thing is that Tissaia is specifically bringing this up to them because she suspects that Dijkstra came to Aretuza looking for Ciri in order to marry her to Vizimir of Redania. Which was his plan. All of the monarchs are on edge because they don't want that to happen. So their solution is well if we kill her, she is less trouble to us when she was supposedly dead.

ROB: It's a lot. It's a lot of new characters. Well, not new characters, but it's a lot of setup for the politics of the next season. And the Francesca scene is definitely the most intriguing I think, though. I—like I said, I—I've not read the later books, but knowing obviously how important it is that Ciri’s a child of the Elder Blood and Ithlinne prophecy, it's gonna be really interesting to see how her storyline in the elf storyline is handled in kind of the search for Ciri.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So the interesting thing is, I think the conclusions and the factions that we're going to see amongst the elves in season three. Based on one of the casting notices, we do know that I think Robbie Amell is going to play an elf who was described as butting heads with Francesca, actually. But we're also starting to see that amongst the people who are here, notably Francesca herself, Dara, and Gage. Gage, Francesca's brother, is still trying to find another way that isn't justice or revenge or death and war. Dara? Super on board with the idea of going to war, and Francesca as well. It makes me nervous, of course, that either/or/and Dara and Gage are going to die at some point for their beliefs, either ones of revenge or ones of pacification.

MITCH: Didn't Lauren say in season three, that a whole lot of people are going to die?

ALYSSA: I mean, I cannot say anything because Rob, and because there's probably lots of listeners who haven't gotten further along in the books, or—or who haven't read the series. So I will keep my mouth shut. But I do think like we are inevitably marching toward some sort of slaughter in season three.

MITCH: Very fun.

ALYSSA: I think it's inevitable with a show like this, but I hope it's just not gratuitous. But you know, after this, this finale with the basilisks, I'm probably in for a treat in season three. And yeah, the other thing is of course, like, Istredd stomps onto the scene, he has been hunting down information about Ciri's bloodline all season, since episode one or episode two. That's kind of been his—his goal. And what he chooses to do with that information, is despite being a human, he chooses to go straight to the elves. It's not exactly clear why, we do know he has some loyalties or some interest in Nilfgaard. And he has an interest in helping people. Why the elves? It's not explicit, but he decides to let them know that Ciri has Elder Blood and the way he phrases it, is that she's one of you. This gives Francesca pause and she connects Ciri to Ithlinne's prophecy, which suddenly puts a different kind of target on her back. Because now it's the question of like, do the elves want or expect Ithlinne’s prophecy to come to pass? Do they want to stop it? In what way do they believe that she can save them? By giving them the child that's—that's promised to be born of her blood, or through some other means? So I'd be—I'd be curious to know, or to find out, what they're going to do with Ciri if they ever have her. 

ROB: Yeah, a really good cliffhanger ending for a lot of these plotlines that have been the focus for this season. And then obviously leads to the last couple of scenes where we get some really good cliffhangers.

ALYSSA: Back in Kaer Morhen, Geralt and Yennefer reconcile. Although he tells her that he does not forgive her, he asks her to train the girl in magic. The two of them then go outside to comfort Ciri. When we talk about who's in the doghouse at this point, it's still Yennefer and Geralt despite, you know, her efforts in saving Ciri, still has hesitancy toward forgiving her, which I think given the circumstances–understandable to an extent. They circle back around to their conversation with Villentretenmerth in Episode 106, Rare Species. Villentretenmerth had told them destiny isn't sufficient enough for their relationship, something more is needed. And Geralt comes to the conclusion that that something more is Ciri. The—this girl who is really destined to be their daughter.

MITCH: I think I kind of summed it up earlier about how their relationship is always a bit fraught. Ciri is kind of a thing that can tie them together and kind of stabilize their somewhat unpredictable personalities.

ROB: And isn't the line, when Geralt says something more is needed, and she is something more? I think that's calling back to a line from the books right?

ALYSSA: Yes, that's—that's definitely a call back to both the show and the books. The very last short story in Sword of Destiny is called Something More. And that is Geralt's discovery of Ciri at Yurga's hut. It's similar in the Netflix series in that episode eight of season one is called Much More and also covers some of the same story.

MITCH: Yeah, Alyssa, did you notice, this is earlier in the episode, but like when—when Geralt asks Voleth Meir Ciri, like, what it—what it will cost to get her out of Ciri, and she says it's not a question of price. And I'm like, aye.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I know. It's like she said the thing! She says, she says it's not a question of pric, it's a question of cost. And as the two of them go out to see Ciri, she's of course beside herself with the events of the day, the fact that she killed all of these witchers, these—these people who were her family, they begin to theorize about what you know, of course, has happened with Voleth Meir throughout the season. And Geralt suspects that Voleth Meir was awoken by Ciri's screams originally during the fall of Cintra. And then sought her as a doorway to go to her own sphere. And the way that Geralt summarizes it, is he says, “you are the key to her future, to Voleth Meir's future. But what I can't figure out though, is when did Nilfgaard know you were the key to theirs? They knew before anyone else? How did they know the truth about you, Ciri?” And boy, do we get an answer at the end of this episode. And this was one of the most shocking things to me, I think, and to a lot of people who have read the books. And for probable people who have not read the books and who are watching this for the very first time. So in the final scene of this season, Emperor Emhyr var Emreis arrives in Cintra. And as he processes into the Cintran banquet hall, Fringilla and Cahir stand at his flanks, telling him that they convinced the elves to fight for Nilfgaard by killing the Elven baby themselves and blaming it on Redania. Emhyr turns suddenly, revealing that the Elven baby was killed on his orders. When he realized that Fringilla and Cahir were no longer useful and getting back his daughter, Cirilla. Um, this was—I have in my notes, “the Emhyr reveal, arrow, Rob”. So I know what me and Mitch probably think, based on the fact that we finished the books. I know that you said you've played the games. 

ROB: Yes.

ALYSSA: But how did this reveal land to you as someone who has never read the books?

ROB: It landed to me like, finally they're revealing that the emperor is Duny and is Ciri's you know, father, real father. Obviously, I knew from Witcher 3, played by Charles Dance in the game.

MITCH: Hell yeah. 

ROB: Uh, yeah, hell yeah. And played here by Bart Edwards. The only thing that confused me a little bit about this reveal, and I was wondering if you two had the same reaction. How much time has passed between the last time Ciri saw Emhyr when she was a child with Pavetta? 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And then this moment, he looked a little too young, almost like too close to what he was in Ciri’s, like, purgatory. And I think that was just because they wanted to, kind of, the audience to, like, instantly recognize the character. I think it would have been nice if maybe he had a little bit more aging on his face, or like a little bit of a beard or something. Just to kind of show that like some time has passed, but I thought the reveal definitely landed well, obviously I have my notes, dramatic close-up. Yeah, and the whole build-up to it, that whole scene is great because we don't see his face, we just see close-up, it starts with this over the head, like, crane shot of them walking into the throne room, and then close-ups of Fringilla, of Cahir, of the guards, of the throne. And then he puts his hand out, we see his ring, and then he turns around reveals that he knows that Fringilla and Cahir lied and that he is actually Duny. His face, the close-up of his face is the last shot of the whole season, when he says take them away and it ends up this really dramatic cliffhanger. So I definitely think it worked, dramatically, for people that don't know the books or the games, feel like what, Ciri's dad is still alive, and he's the Emperor, oh my god, you know. So it's a great little cliffhanger, I just kind of was a little disappointed that maybe they wanted people to kind of, like, make that connection that he's Duny a little bit, I guess more instantly. 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: They kind of didn't maybe trust the audience, maybe, as much as they could have by showing him a bit more aged. Because he just looks exactly the same as he does in Ciri's memory. But I—I mean, that's my— that's a nitpick more than anything. I feel like the reveal definitely worked. And I'm definitely interested to see more of Bart Edwards's interpretation of this character, hopefully in uh—in season three.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think I can answer at least some of that, based on interviews that Lauren Hissrich and the production team have done. I—I was genuinely shocked that they did this so early on. We kind of, like, have to talk about it now. 

ROB: Sure.

ALYSSA: Because it's in the—it's in the episode, but we do not find that out—

ROB: Wow.

ALYSSA: Like at all. Until, like literally the very, very, very, very, very, very, very end of the seventh book. 

ROB: Wow. Oh my God.

ALYSSA: Like, that’s not something that we figure out. And, of course, like, if you played The Witcher 3, it literally happens at the beginning of The Witcher 3. You see the emperor of Nilfgaard, and Geralt's like lol, hey, Duny, what's up? And so you, you piece that together, If you've played The Witcher 3 as well. However, if you're coming from the books, you literally have no idea. So I was super surprised that they handled it in this way. Of course, you know, there are reasons for it. You know, they had questions about how they were going to handle this Emhyr reveal, because we see all of these scenes, even throughout Blood of Elves, where we're with the White Flame, we're with Emhyr in Nilfgaard. Because it's a book, we don't have to see his face. We're just with this emperor, we never—we never have that reveal. And so I think there was obviously a huge production question about how are we going to have Emhyr, if we know that the actor or the character is the same? So they thought about like, well, do we age them up? They thought about, do we recast an older Emhyr. And it just didn't–I think ultimately, they just decided to stick with Bart Edwards. I—I still feel on the fence about it, to be perfectly honest, because I think this probably could have happened later. It's certainly something very large to end the season on, certainly a huge cliffhanger to end the season on. But I feel like if they hadn't—hadn't hammered at home within the Dol Durza and in this dream sequence here, we probably could have gotten away with like a smaller kind of reveal that only if you had gone back and watched A Question of Price, in Of Banquets, Bastards, and Burials in season one, would you have made that connection? So I think they could have probably trusted the audience a little bit more or been slightly more creative about, I think the timing of that reveal. But I understand, like, the pressure of like, well, we can't have scenes with him if we don't say who he is. 

ROB: Exactly.

ALYSSA: Like, it's harder in film when you—when you can see the person, of course. So I'm sympathetic toward that. I just–man was I shocked that they, that they went in that direction.

ROB: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, right? Because Mitch, you were talking earlier about the kind of the pleasures of the novels, right is the conversations and the prose. But I think one thing that I think a lot of people underestimate about the power of novels, and storytelling in the written word, is you can hold back a lot of information because the audience isn't seeing a human face. So you can hold back things like character relationships, and, you know, actors portraying one character and then later there, you realize, are a whole, a whole another character, and they're the same character. Because in a book, obviously, you can just change the names like with Duny, to, you know, Emhyr and everything, it's like, you can hold off on that reveal to the very end. Because you're not seeing the same actors' face, you know, over the course of seven books. You're just reading descriptions of them. And I—I think it makes a hundred percent, you know, sense why they decided to reveal this early because I think ultimately, the interesting part isn't dancing around the reveal of, you know, who Emhyr is and what he looks like and what his relationship to Ciri is. The interesting thing is the conflict and the emotional conflict that is being set up with Emhyr being Ciri's father, being Duny. And how does that—how does he play into wanting to reunite with his daughter to see Ciri again, and being a part of those political machinations of the continent, ultimately?

MITCH: Yeah, I wasn't too surprised by this twist at all. Actually, I was—that was kind of one thing I was wondering, as the season was going on. I was like, how are they going to make Emhyr a present force, a present antagonist without showing his face? They're gonna do the James Bond thing where, you know, he just sits in a chair in darkness and all you do is see the back of his head, and he has a weird accent. And I wasn't too surprised that they would do this. I felt it makes sense. The only silly thing I thought of in that scene was he—he just turns around and he's like, I can't trust you guys to get you closer to my daughter. And I'm like, it's kind of a silly line. Like you're just telling your entire court about your daughter. So does everybody know about this? Is this not a secret? It would suit him better to keep this a secret, right?

ALYSSA: Yeah, that's part of the reason why I was so surprised that he just like blurted that out to Fringilla and uh, and Cahir because no one feckin’ knows in the books that she’s his daughter, ‘cause there's a whole lot of other stuff that happens for why he would probably keep that a secret.

ROB: Does he say Ciri's name though? I don't think he says Ciri's name. He just says his daughter. Right? In the—in the scene in the show.

ALYSSA: Yeah, he doesn't say Ciri's name. But he talks about like, I can't trust you because you guys can’t complete my mission to find my daughter. And like, they know that that's all that they've been up to for two seasons, is like looking for Ciri. 

ROB: Yeah. 

ALYSSA: And then it obviously, like, pieces together with Geralt saying like, how did Nilfgaard know before anyone else what your powers were? It's because your dad is the fucking emperor of Nilfgaard, that's why.

ROB: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

ALYSSA: For me, this, like, waterfall of scenes is probably one of my favorite parts of—of this episode. Because again, it's like getting everything in a row. And it closes out the season, in my opinion very well. But yeah, so he doesn't explicitly say her name. But I think given what we see between Geralt's conversation with Ciri and what we know about Cahir's blinders-on goal, is you know, her dad.

ROB: Exactly.

ALYSSA: We would have figured that out without the face reveal as well.

ROB: Yeah. 

ALYSSA: What a fucking end. My God, this season. And yeah, the credits roll. And it's like, like, oh, my God, what just happened?

ROB: Take them away. 

ALYSSA: Yeah, and—and suddenly, all of this scheming and all of this planning that Cahir and Fringilla have done. The deaths that they've caused, the alliances that they've created, the scheming that they were trying to do in order to, you know, cover up their own shortcomings. All of that gets chucked out the window because the—the emperor said three words, and I'm sure we'll be able to explore, you know, their—their fall from grace in next season as well.

ROB: Continuing that Zuko arc.

MITCH: Oh right.

ROB: For Cahir.

MITCH: How is he going to restore his honor?

ALYSSA: Who knows? Who knows at this point? Fish soup, maybe. So that, you know, brings us to the end of the episode. That brings us to the end of the season. And we've talked a lot about, of course, the episode, but when it comes to the season as a whole, that's something that I would love both of your thoughts on as well. You know, as we talk about individual characters. As we talk about reasons for why this show and this season might have been adapted in the way that it was. Before we get to the rest of the discussion, we’re going to take a break here. Next episode, join me, Mitch Fey from the US, and Rob Pigott from the US as we continue our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher 208, “Family.”

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we get to the rest of the discussion, we’re going to take a break here. Next episode, join me, Mitch from the US, and Rob Pigott from the US as we continue our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher 208, “Family.”

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Wolf, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Miriam of Temeria, Softie, and Mary the Moo.

Special thanks to Mitch and Rob for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: Kristianne Benganio

 

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