Ep. 67 — 208 "Family" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 1)

Mitch Fey from the US and Rob Pigott from the US join Alyssa for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 208 “Family”. Very important bits include: catching up on their work in the film and game industries since their appearances three years ago, Ciri confronting the loss of her home and family while trapped in a dreamscape, Ciri/Voleth Meir’s slaughter of the witchers and Geralt and Vesemir’s resulting conflict, Francesca on the edge of revenge, Yennefer and Jaskier taking things into their own hands, Nilfgaardian scheming, Cahir’s [redacted] arc, and unleashing Jurassic Park in Kaer Morhen.

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

ROB: I realized I was bisexual.

ALYSSA: Bi-five baybee!

ROB: Bi-five!

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Introduction

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.

[WitcherFlix Episode: December 22, 2022]

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[Episode Details]

As for this episode, Mitch and Rob Pigott from the US for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 208 “Family”. Join us as we catch up on their work in the film and game industries since their appearances three years ago and discuss Ciri confronting the loss of her home and family while trapped in a dreamscape, Ciri/Voleth Meir’s slaughter of the witchers and Geralt and Vesemir’s resulting conflict, Francesca on the edge of revenge, Yennefer and Jaskier taking things into their own hands, Nilfgaardian scheming, Cahir’s [redacted] arc, and unleashing Jurassic Park in Kaer Morhen.

You can also find download links to Rob’s game, Bitter Silver, at the episode page at breakfastinbeauclair.com.

In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares updates about The Witcher Season 3 and The Witcher Season 4.

Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 208 “Family” (Part 1).

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Hey, everyone, welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa and today we're welcoming two returning members of our Hanza to the show. You'll recognize my guests from their previous appearances on episodes 19 and 20 of Breakfast in Beauclair, covering episode 103 Betrayer Moon. My first guest is from Omaha, Nebraska. He currently manages and projects for a local nonprofit art house theater. In addition to film distribution, he works as a video and audio editor and writer. My second guest is an NYC-based writer, filmmaker, and the founder of the indie game studio Lookout Drive Games. When they're not busy working on projects as an assistant, film, and TV editor, they love writing for games, film, TV, and literature. Currently, they're working on a Cowboy Bebop-inspired space Western video game called Bitter Silver with a demo now available for PC and Mac on Steam and itch.io. Please welcome back Mitch Fey and Rob Piggott from the US.

ALYSSA: Hey, guys.

MITCH: Hey.

ROB: Hello, everyone. Happy to be here.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I'm so glad to have you back. It has been, coincidently, as we're recording this, we recorded our last episodes, episodes 19 and 20, on February 17, 2020. So it's been like two years and seven months to the date since we last recorded, which is crazy. What have you both been up to since then? What projects are you working on right now?

MITCH: Well, I've moved three times since then. A lot has happened to me in that time span, I—when we first recorded that,  I mean, I was a junior in college, and since then I graduated college and I moved back to Omaha. I was living in Lincoln at the time, and I got involved in the local— our local nonprofit movie theater. And I've kind of been working for them ever since and it's been very fun. I get to do a lot of things. We get a lot of fun perks and stuff. It's been interesting to learn about film distribution, specifically in how our theater would compete with another theater in town. Mostly we compete with Alamo because they're the only other art house—

ALYSSA: Ah, yeah.

MITCH: –theater in town uh.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

MITCH: We don't really compete with AMC or anything like that. You know, we're not playing Spider-Man or so, and I've been managing, I've been doing a lot of projection, which has been a blast. That's like one of the most fun jobs I've ever had, so.

ALYSSA: I think the last time you were here, one of the things you were telling us about was your senior thesis. How did that go?

MITCH: Oh, yeah. I pretty much wrote that how I wanted to, I had a specific vision for that back in the day, and it pretty much turned out how I wanted it to. Back when I was a junior, it was kind of the, the concept was, it was essentially kind of a buddy comedy. But that idea really progressed forward. And it turned into a six-part mini-series that turned out to be like 115 pages, it was a lot of writing. And by far the longest project I've written in my entire life. And I wrote that in, about –my last semester of college, so in about a four-month span. That was probably the most disciplined work I've ever done–

ALYSSA: Yeah.

MITCH: –in that short amount of time. Like, like, there are a lot of arguments against college and why you shouldn't go to college, versus why you should. But like, I don't think I would have had that structure if I was just by myself. And I don't know if I'd be able to write that. Or if I would have had the infrastructure to write it and have the people around me help to make it better. You know, nowadays, I feel like I—I have a better work ethic. So I could probably pull something like that off again. But I don't know if it would take four months, it would take me a lot longer. 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

MITCH: So sometimes college is good for finishing incredibly long projects in a very short amount of time. 

ALYSSA: Yes, absolutely. 

MITCH: Just all that pressure.

ROB: Oh, yeah.

ALYSSA: Deadlines can be a magical thing.

MITCH: So I'm—I'm kind of grateful for that, that I was able to write all that. And that was a big achievement for me in college. I got an A+ on that project. So it worked out for me.

ROB: Oh, congrats.

ALYSSA: Yeah, congratulations on finishing. And it's so nice to hear what you've been up to over the last few years. And Rob, what about you? What are you currently working on two and a half years later?

ROB: Well, aka one whole, still ongoing pandemic later. Wow, a lot has changed since we recorded. I realized I'm nonbinary. I realized I'm bisexual. I moved apartments, still in NYC. And then, creatively, I've really gotten a lot more into writing for video games. I think one of the big things that I realized during, kind of like, the initial months of the pandemic was I had spent a lot of my career working on other people's projects. And I hadn't really spent a lot of time working on my own projects. For most of 2020, I was unemployed, like a lot of people were. So I did a lot of writing and I wrote a novel and short stories. And I came up with the idea for a video game called Bitter Silver. After I watched a couple of shows for the first time, one was Cowboy Bebop, and the other was The Mandalorian. You know, I've always been a fan of space Westerns. But there really aren't a lot of space Western video games out there. You know, I—I really struggled to think of any, beyond maybe like Borderlands. I'm sure there's like indie games out there. And I've looked for a lot of indie games. I wanted to make a cool, diverse, fun, well-written space Western game. In the summer of 2021, I took a class on writing for games, met a lot of cool people, learned a lot of cool stuff, shouts out to the narrative department. If anyone here is listening to this podcast, shouts out, you're all great.  Shouts out Susan O'Connor, she's great. If you have any interest in learning about writing for games, take her class. But yeah, I've been working on Bitter Silver now with my team. It's a small team of me and about eight, nine other people working on the game. And you know, people from all around the world, all walks of life, a lot of people have never worked on a game before, never worked on, you know, a sci-fi game before. All doing really great work. We are really seeing our demo now. And we can't wait to kind of hear what people have to say about the game and what they feel about it, you know. It's something that we've worked really hard on and we hope people enjoy it. But we’re definitely list—gonna be listening to people and seeing what they uh—what they like and what we can improve upon. And hopefully, we can go forward from there and, you know, start pitching our vision to publishers and try to get the game funded because one way or another the game is getting made, whether it's through a publisher, through crowdfunding, or just me, continuing to just fund it with my own money, which is what I've been doing with the demo. That's kind of where we're at right now. If you're interested in—in the game, you can follow us on social media. We have an Instagram page, we have a website, nd we have a Twitter, Lookout Drive Games. You can find us all on there. We also have a Tiktok and all that. But yeah, that's—that's pretty much the main thing I've been up to, besides working on— on film and TV projects for work and stuff like that, you know? So yeah.

MITCH: That's sweet, Rob.

ALYSSA: Yeah, congratulations. And I'm sure that everybody will be excited to check out the new game. There’s I feel like so many indie games that come up in the server that people just start playing altogether. And I'm sure that like if you link your demo in Discord, they'll all download it and give it a shot.

ROB: Yeah, I would—I would love that. I mean, it's—it's a game that's basically focused on like, choose your own adventure type, like narrative choices. And if you've ever played, like, Mass Effect, it really is all about just kind of, like, defining the main character's personality. And you can choose a background for her, like one of five different backgrounds. So we really want it to kind of have something that even though it's very text-driven, you know since it's a visual novel, which for those who don't know what visual novels are, they're basically interactive fiction. Sounds exactly what you know, it sounds like a narrative, you know, text-based game that has accompanying visuals. And, you know, it could be a fun game, you know, for people to play and kind of like, decide what choices they want to make. Because the demo has multiple endings and things like that. And we wanted to have a good amount of replayability. So yeah, yeah, it's been a—it's been a great journey, for me to kind of, like, realize that I want to have my, like, film and TV career as my day job and accept that this is my day job. And then like, my creative passions are making games, making narrative-driven games with my team, in my spare time.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. One of the other things that I think we had spoken about the last time you were on the show, was that you were very early or hadn't read The Witcher series. How was reading The Witcher series been going for you since your last appearance?

ROB: So I have a confession to make. I've only read Blood of Elves. 

ALYSSA: Okay.

ROB: Since we last talked.

ALYSSA: Okay, and just to confirm, did you play the video games? I couldn't remember off the top of my head.

ROB: Yes, I've played The Witcher 2, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. 

ALYSSA: Okay.

ROB: And both expansions for The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. And I've seen a playthrough of the first game. 

ALYSSA: Okay. And Mitch, you've read all the books, right?

MITCH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Read them in like two weeks. 

ALYSSA: Yeah. That sounds about right. Yeah. I mean, the reason why I just wanted to, like, ask again, is of course we're sitting here at the end of The Witcher Season Two, and there's so much that happened in this season, that has happened in the books. So many revelations and I'm so excited to talk to you both about the season finale of course, as well as, like, the overarching season. Today we'll conclude our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher Season Two with the season finale, Episode 208 Family, in which Voleth Meir wreaks havoc on the witchers’ keep, as every kingdom in the continent schemes against Ciri. In the opening of this episode, Ciri mysteriously awakens with her former advisor, Mousesack, in Cintra. Yennefer and Geralt arrive at Kaer Morhen and the sorceress pleads for Geralt to listen to her. The end of the previous episode closed with a shot of Ciri, like, inhaling this Voleth Meir dust, after Geralt snares to watch her break out of her prison in the hut in the forest. We're suddenly brought back to Cintra, and neither we nor Ciri, really know why she's there. So all of this is very, is very mysterious, mysterious opening.

MITCH: I enjoyed getting some actor reunions. 

ALYSSA: Yes.

MITCH  I thought that— I thought that Adam Levy as Mousesack was pretty good in the last season. So but also like, I think Jodhi May is the big return. I thought she was so good as Calanthe, and then to have her back for a little cameo, I thought was a— a nice little touch. 

ROB: Yeah.

MITCH: You know, I think it's kind of— I think it's kind of fun to bring back characters, especially ones that have died. 

ROB: Yeah, we get a very dreamlike, like 360-degree shot in this opening scene where, like, the camera is circling around Ciri and Mousesack as she, like, reaches out to, like, touch his face, to like, see if, like, what's happening is real. And I think you know, this opening scene really kind of establishes very early on how real this kind of fantasy world that like Voleth Meir has put Ciri in, is to her. I mean, the camera work and the lighting and the cinematography throughout all of like the dream, purgatory mindset that, that Ciri's in. I think it all really emphasizes how ideal this world is, how too perfect it is for Ciri. And it all starts in this opening scene.

MITCH: Yeah, and her use of language, Ciri's use of language really demonstrates how much has changed for her in the past few months, you know.  She's around Geralt a lot, so she like says like, fuck. Mousesack gets really angry at her. She kind of even likes him giving it to her. I—I enjoyrf that a bit. She likes the rules being enforced on her. She likes that stability again.

ALYSSA: Yeah, and I think it's just like the disbelief and the memory of course, and the nostalgia. This is a life that she was forced from very abruptly. And I think, you know, more than anything, she wants to believe that, she wants to remedy the way that she acted when she was younger. And I think we see that more throughout the episode. But I think what we really see here with Mousesack is first just the shock and the disbelief. It's such an interesting look into her, like, inner world and her psyche, and the guilt that she probably has about this, about everything.

ROB: Yeah, she's probably honestly, I know, they probably don't have therapists on the continent, but Ciri's probably been suffering from, you know, PTSD for a while now. I think in almost a kind of twisted way, being put into this kind of dream-like purgatory, like, mind palace by Voleth Meir, where everything is perfect and she's living her old life again, with no problems. And everything that happens over the course of the episode with it. It's her own way of kind of confronting her past and dealing with all this loss, you know, that's happened to her over the past, you know, many months and years really.

ALYSSA: We’re brought away from this very suddenly, before we can really understand what's going on. And we're suddenly writing into Kaer Morhen, with Geralt, who has Yennefer right on his heels. They get into the keep, and she's just begging for him to listen to her, which he apparently hasn't been doing, since, I mean, who knows where they were. But they've been riding for God knows how long, and she's still yelling after him. I think somebody made a joke about that, in a previous episode. She tries to reason with him about what has happened and about Voleth Meir. He's obviously very angry that Yennefer had betrayed them. But she tells Geralt “before Voleth Meir showed me her true self, she came to me as a little girl, some fucked up version of myself. Yes, she feeds on pain, but everyone on this continent is in pain. Voleth Meir is more personal than that, she's more specific.” So this gives us one, a little bit more context about who we saw at the beginning of the season, when Voleth Meir appeared to Yennefer. We had a lot of speculation about that than about whether this is supposed to be Yennefer, or whether it was supposed to be Tissaia and we didn't really know. So it's contextualized here. And it also gives us context for what is probably happening to Ciri right now in her, in her little head.

MITCH: You know, I feel in our last episode, the one that we recorded, me and Rob recorded. I remember talking about how much I really enjoyed Anya Chalotra’s performance. But I actually think she kind of one-upped herself in this season for me. 

ROB: A hundred percent.

ALYSSA: Yeah, she's great. 

MITCH: I really loved her performance this season. I—this may be a hot take, but I actually really loved how they took away her magic.

ALYSSA: In the next scene, truly possessed by Voleth Meir in Kaer Morhen, Ciri begins killing the witchers in their beds one by one before being caught by Geralt, Yennefer, and Vesemir. Vesemir argues with Geralt about what must be done with his ward. This was genuinely shocking, like I think the first time that I saw it. I don't know about you guys, but I was like oh my god what is happening? Ciri goes and she—you know, stabs a bunch of dudes, and then she's about to slit Vesemir's throat as he sleeps. And then, Geralt and Ye are just like hey, what's up? Voleth Meir has the mind of like, oh, I can play this off. Let me just, like, make up some stuff. There are a couple of things, I think in scene questions that have come up in previous episodes. Like, why didn't the witchers wake up? Did they not smell her? Did they not hear her?

MITCH: That was my main thing. 

ALYSSA: Yeah. Like you need to suspend your disbelief a little bit. But there's I think a lot going on there. 

ROB: Yeah. It's funny that Mitch and I are back on this episode after being on a very horror-focused episode last year, Betrayer Moon. 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Because I felt like this sequence was just basically a slasher movie-esque montage. 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Even a couple of the camera angles felt like they were callbacks to Betrayer Moon. The opening to Betrayer Moon, with Ciri kind of stalking the halls of Kaer Morhen with this dagger that she's stolen and, just the first kill like is like uncut as the camera kind of holds and pushes in on her face, as she slides the blade like across the witchers throat, as he like grabs on to her wrist and like tries to stop her, but it's like too late. And she creepily whispers to him, like it's so creepy and disturbing. And it's just like—the whole, this whole opening is very like horror movie-esque, like Friday the 13th, for like slasher movie-esque. And I—I really loved it, because I love Betrayer Moon, I love when the Witcher goes dark and does horror, because that–there's a lot of horror, obviously in the source material, in the games and it was really something. And then obviously, at the end when Geralt stops Ciri from killing Vesemir. When he like looks into her eyes, and he can tell that it's not Ciri behind those eyes, it's Voleth Meir. When—when she like runs away, the look that Geralt gives like is so good. And Henry Cavill just shouts out to him, like he has been fantastic and I think he really took Geralt to a new level this season in terms of like expressing his emotions. So yeah, really creepy montage sequence with some great acting from Freya, and Henry.

MITCH: Shout out to Voleth Meir for just putting down the Witchers like easy.

ROB: Yeah.

MITCH: You could have made that— those deaths far more painful by like, you know, letting to bleed out, and like did stomachs, but slitting their throats, its a clean kill.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

MITCH: In terms of an evil lady. But I enjoy Vesemir's perspective in this whole sequence, you know, because kind of goes back earlier to the season where, where Geralt has to kill Eskel, more out of circumstance and he didn't really want to. And so Vesemir, he has the same perspective here. And you can kind of understand where he's coming from. Obviously, you don't want him to kill Ciri and you know that he's ultimately not going to, or else there would be no show after this. 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

MITCH: But uh—there— I think it's good writing when you can kind of understand these multiple different perspectives, and this conflict and understand that Vesemir does have a point when he's talking about like, hey, you know, if Ciri's killing like multiple witchers and these are the last witchers left, we may have to put her down like Old Yeller? I don't know.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And both Geralt and Vesemir bring this back to Episode 202, Kaer Morhen with Eskel. Both of them talk about what happened. And I think the way that their mentalities have, have diverged since that moment. Vesemir is very candid that he's held on to a lot of like, rage, I think, and bitterness about how that all happened. He's mourning his–one of his sons, of course, but Geralt has been trying to instill these values into Ciri as her paternal figure. He's been trying to teach her since episode 202, that like, witchers don't kill out of fear. They kill to save lives. And he said that when they were in Kaer Morhen for the first time and she was telling him how much he wanted to kill Cahir. And he brings that up to Vesemir again, because apparently, Vesemir was the person who told him that and Vesemir is like, well, that's bullshit now, and he still wants to kill Ciri. And Geralt, you know, tries to reason with him. It's not gonna bring them back, like killing Ciri isn't going to do anything for us. There's not really a lot of resolution there. Geralt just says you know what, I'll—I'll figure it out. Like I'll draw Voleth Meir out. I'll convince her to leave Ciri and then Vesemir kind of walks away. In the next scene, back in Cintra, Dara confesses to Filavandrel, that he had been spying for Redania and that everyone is looking for Ciri. While Dara believes that Redania attacked because of their alliance with Nilfgaard, Francesca believes that their daughter's assassination was simply due to their race. Previously, we have seen that Francesca and Filavandrel's baby had been killed by some mysterious cloaked figure. They had snuck into Cintra, slaughtering the baby and Francesca and Filavandrel had been mourning it. There's of course a lot of rage and a lot of anger that Francesca feels. The elves have gone from hopelessness to hope. And now, anger.

ROB: Yeah. Francesca, it was really honestly powerful when the scene initially starts with Filavandrel at the head of the table talking to Dara, right? And then it cuts to Francesca and we just see her sitting, staring at her baby crib. Her empty baby crib. That really hit home. The actor that um–

ALYSSA: Mecia Simson?

ROB: Yes, the actress for Francesca.

MITCH: It's her first role I think?

ROB: Really?!

ALYSSA: It is. It's her very first role. 

ROB: Oh wow.

ALYSSA: She won Britain's Next Top Model years ago, and this is her first acting role.

ROB: Oh, wow. I did not know that. That's— that makes it all the more impressive, because at the end of the scene when she talks about coming up with a plan to take action, it just kind of holds on her face, like a closeup of her face staring at Filavandrel. And yeah, there's so much rage and determination and even, even a bit of sadness in her in that look. And I know Francesca, Francesca is not in the Blood of Elves, right? Is she even in the books at all, as a character?

ALYSSA: Uh she—she is in the books. 

ROB: Okay.

ALYSSA: We'll see her starting with Time of Contempt.

ROB: Time of Contempt. Okay. So they kind of moved up her introduction to the show earlier. The elves storyline, I feel like has been one of the biggest improvements, I think from the first season because the actors that they cast, and I think taking small characters from season one like Dara, like Filavandrel, and really giving them full arcs, or almost full arcs, and really seeing everything that's been happening from their perspective, especially when we come back to later in the episode, I think has been so interesting. And I think— it—is such a—the elves in The Witcher are such a contrast to elves in every other, like, fantasy show or media. Like I've been watching The Lord Of The Rings: Rings Of Power. And obviously, the elves in that show are so much different than the elves in The Witcher. And I think all the actors, I think make them feel real and ironically feel very human. 

ALYSSA: Yeah. 

ROB: In season two especially.

MITCH: Good for Tom Canton, right?

ROB: Yeah.

MITCH: Its Tom Canton who plays Filavandrel, right?

ALYSSA: Filavandrel had one, one chapter in one book all the way at the beginning. And he seems to be, like, super into the fandom as well, which is awesome. But yeah, I definitely agree. Like, the elves are—I think one of the most interesting parts of the books as well as the series. And I'm so glad we got to dive into them. And I think we're gonna see more of the elves and eventually the Scoia'tael in the next season, which is super exciting with, with all the casting announcements they've made. The interesting thing about Francesca, you talked about her demeanor in this scene, you know, seeing her sitting there completely still. I feel like that's so much more terrifying than, like, you know, seeing somebody in agony or frantic or anxious and not knowing what to do with this energy and this rage. The fact that she's, I guess, like lucid in her rage is the way that I would phrase it. It's like she's formulating a plan. And it's terrifying, especially for being her first role. Mecia Simson is just fantastic. Oh, my God.

MITCH: And It's also interesting how she—she pardons Dara. He was kind of part of this whole operation. But it kind of tells us that she's directing her hate not toward elves at all. Again, it really is more binary for her, you know. She's not really seeing the nuances of this political situation. She's seeing this purely as a—as a hate crime in a way. She kind of sees him a bit detached from the situation, which I think ultimately he is.

ALYSSA: Yeah, he couldn't have predicted this. 

MITCH: Yeah. So it's a good character moment. Yeah.

ROB: And Dara has gone through a lot this season. Let's just be real. Dara's gone through a lot over this whole show.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I really do enjoy Dara. I'm glad that they brought him in. I think he's going to be—you've heard my theories already. I'm not gonna go over them again. But yeah, I am looking forward to seeing him in season three. And if we get more from him after that, it'll be a treat. In the next scene, Yennefer wakes Jaskier who had accompanied Ciri to the keep at the end of the last episode. The sorceress takes matters into her own hands and raids the witcher's laboratory to make a potion to save Ciri. So yeah, Jaskier is here. He doesn't really do a lot in this episode. But he's, like, here to close out the season, I guess. And Yennefer goes to get him to do something. We get down to the laboratory. She's doing all these calculations in her head. She says “Voleth Meir is a parasite, we need to remove her without killing the host. A spell from the extraction or separation family would do it.” And Jaskier is like, well, yeah, but you don't have your magic. She's like I know, so I have to do something else. So she finds active jasper, which she says provides warmth, energy, and balance. She also finds golden oriole which she says neutralizes the effects of poison in the bloodstream. So she's really treating this like a parasite or poison and she's trying to, you know, use whatever resources she has available. She's desperate, Geralt is not listening to her. Everybody's ignoring her and handling it their own way. And this is hers.

MITCH: Yeah, I definitely see, to go back to Jaskier. I definitely see Jaskier as maybe like a conflict that they found themselves in, the writers specifically where you have a very action-oriented finale, and you have a character who does not have any particular strengths in that category. So what exactly do you do with Jaskier?

ALYSSA: No, he has no skills. 

MITCH: I mean, we—we learned that he was buff, but we don't know if you can use those muscles for good.

ROB: I mean, we find out later he's very good at dodging projectiles and—

MITCH: Yes, somehow surviving.

ROB: Somehow surviving multiple shards of rocks being hurled at him.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we continue our discussion, we’re going to hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, Mitch, Rob, and I will continue our discussion of “Family”.

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is ‘Tidings from Toussaint’. Welcome back everybody.

Unfortunately this is a very strange episode and I am sure everybody watching ‘The Witcher’ on Netflix has heard about it by now: Henry Cavill has decided to lay down his medallion and leave ‘The Witcher’ show after Season 3. Instead, from Season 4 on Geralt of Rivia will be played by none other than Liam Hemsworth. He is known for his role in the Hunger Games franchise and other movies like Poker Face or Arkansas and TV shows such as ‘Most Dangerous Game’. According to Redanian Intelligence, Liam Hemsworth already auditioned for Geralt back in 2018 when the role was initially cast and he was already among the casting directors' favorites.

Naturally, this news kinda broke the internet in the last weeks. But now we have our fourth Geralt after Michał Żebrowski, Doug Cockle, and Henry Cavill. So, there are only eight episodes left with Henry Cavill as Geralt of Rivia. Of course, this is very sad news and a turning point in the show's history as Henry is arguably among the show's strongest aspects. All of this comes after Henry said back in November 2021, he was all in for the original The Witcher plan of seven seasons and Andrzej Sapkowski announcing Henry was the definitive Geralt.

So, this recast's impact cannot be overstated, whatever the reason behind it. Naturally, there is a lot of speculation about Henry's reasons for leaving ‘The Witcher’: He has not enough time anymore as he plays Superman again. Or he didn't like that Netflix's adaptation strayed too far away from the source material. Unfortunately we don't have an answer to the question why. But in the end, there are a lot of things that can make or break a show. And it not only depends on one actor or recast. Season 2 has given lots of hints to the viewers about the way the show has chosen to go and it's up to all of us to decide if we like this way or not. And it feels like Henry has made his decision. But equally important, let's give Liam Hemsworth a fair chance as Geralt and see what interesting, new or even unexpected nuances he will bring to the character. Season 4 of The Witcher is still years and years away, Season 3 will be released first, in Summer 2023, which gives us a chance to say goodbye to Henry.

Of course, the news about Henry leaving ‘The Witcher’ is what everybody is talking about at the moment. Nevertheless, there is another piece of information: Redanian Intelligence posted about a new casting for Season 3 of ‘The Witcher’. Australian actor Fabian McCallum will play Kayleigh in the new season. Kayleigh is a member of the Rats, a gang of young criminals that is quite important to Ciri's storyline. Fabian McCallum, by the way, recently appeared in the ‘Lord of the Rings: Rings of Power’ as the elf Thondir.

Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Discussion

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Voleth Meir had possessed Ciri and began slaughtering the witchers in Kaer Morhen. In Cintra, the elves seek retribution for the loss of their newborn baby.

In the next scene, in Ciri's dream, she attends a banquet and reunites with her grandmother, Calanthe. This was just so pretty, like when we saw the Cintran banquet hall in season one it was always a little dim and dark when we had been there during Pavetta's betrothal, when we had been there a little later, because of course, all of these things were happening in real life, right? But we're here in Ciri's dream and everything is just golden. Her robes, her dress, and the banquet hall itself just like radiates this warmth and this beauty. We're reunited with Jodhi May is Calanthe. Ciri is ecstatic to see her and to please her and to fix everything that she— that she had done differently in season one, would we have been in Cintra. So as we had talked about, it shows how much she's grown and how much I think she really misses being there and being with her family.

MITCH:  Yeah, I would like to mention, I feel like this is a good time to talk about it, but there was a huge drastic change in cinematography this season.

ROB:  Yes.

MITCH:  I mean, it's noticeable like, I think for everybody, I think everybody noticed that. But yeah, you can see it in the reoccurring sets, especially with the— the Cintrian throne room where— there, there are just a lot more vibrant colors that are showing up in the color palette for this season, and it's probably due to an increase in budget and increase in manpower. But I welcome those changes. I felt like certain parts of the first season looked quite ugly. But yeah, so like seeing scenes like this with Ciri, you know, in this dreamlike world is very fun. It's very fun seeing these colorful scenes. And yeah, of course, I think Jodhi May was a standout performance in that first season. So it's really fun to see her come back, and it's fun to see certain callbacks to the first season where it's like, she's had one line where she says like a modest decorum of, I'm sure you'll remember it at some point. And then there's also that one boy who asks her for a dance and she, like, turns him down in the first season. She wants to do the dance even with this bad dancer, I'm sure. She wants to uh—she wants to participate in all of these petty little kingdom things that are all of a sudden fun to her. It's kind of a fun scene to watch.

ROB:  Yeah, and the cinematography, like the camera angles, the lighting, the slow motion, you know, the color palette of all the costumes, it just really emphasizes like this fairy tale, unreal you know, nature of what's going on. You know, and I think in the way that kind of Freya Allen delivers her dialogue as— I'm gonna call this version of Ciri, actual Ciri, and then you have Voleth Meir Ciri.

ALYSSA: Okay.

ROB: So actual Ciri, the way she delivers her dialogue is very like, like almost she knows that like, this isn't real. But she’s just kind of going with it anyway, because she wants it to be real. Almost like if she wills it into existence, it will be real. Because even then we start getting, like, a little bit of a sense of like the unrealness of it. I think Ciri starts to get a little bit of the unrealness of it in this scene. And yeah, Jodhi May. Great to see her back. I hope she and Adam Levy come back in season three somehow. 

ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. And her dance with Martin. It was so nice to just, like, see her be eager again, like as we—as we talk about how she's approaching all of this differently. It even surprises dream Calanthe, which I think it's cute, that they've all got their own consciousness within that, but yeah.

MITCH: Oh, yeah. Well, this is uh—this is kind of a dumb aside. But uh, this kind of reminds me of like a Doctor Who episode, this whole plotline, where, you know, a character's in an obviously fake reality that is quite perfect for them. And then somebody has to convince them that it's actually fake. There's like a David Tennant episode, where something like that happened.

ALYSSA: No. It is Silence in the Library?

MITCH: No, it's not that one. Oh—oh my gosh, it is that one too.

ALYSSA: Yeah. It's the Catherine Tate episode where she has a whole entire life and children. 

MITCH: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And it's like uh-huh, no.

MITCH: It is that one too, though. Wow. Doctor Who has done this twice, both in the David Tennant episodes. Because there's also one where he has to erase his memories of being the doctor. And he, like, falls in love with this school teacher.

ALYSSA: Oh. Mmm.

MITCH: And his companion has to like—because there's like aliens around–

ALYSSA: Of course.

MITCH: –his companion has to remind him that he's the doctor and his whole, like, beautiful life gets ruined. 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

MITCH: So I kind of—I like it when stories like this pop up, you know? It's an emotional plotline. Yeah.

ALYSSA: It's heartbreaking though because we know obviously this can't last, but we will certainly get to that throughout the episode, as the witchers get to it as well. In the next scene, Fringilla and Cahir discover that Francesca, Filavandrel, and some of the elves have left Cintra, riding north to hunt down the murderer of their baby. While Fringilla worries that Francesca's disappearance will ruin her plan to prove her leadership abilities to the Emperor, Cahir plans to tell him that getting the elves to rally against the North is all according to plan. I don't know why this scene surprised me when I was watching, as we go from this–well, I guess I know why it surprised me because we're in the Cintran banquet hall in Ciri's head and it's beautiful, and it's golden. And then we like hard cut to the reality of it. And that it's empty and dark and taken over by Nilfgaard. So Fringilla strides into the Cintran throne room, finds Cahir and she starts panicking. She's like, what are we going to do? And Cahir just kind of takes it all. In the last episode Fringilla, very infamously slaughtered all of the Nilfgaardian generals while they were eating breakfast, she tells Cahir in that episode, like when the Emperor comes rave about me, rave. And so it's kind of like unclear what Cahir's motivations are in reaction to that. because, one, the Emperor's dangerous. I think they both are fully aware of that and, and scared of him and loyal to him. So his encouragement of Fringilla feels sincere. The fact that he is going to back her up and say like, no, this was all your plan. Like, we're rallying the elves against the North. And they're doing it for us because we had the smart idea to kill their baby and blame it on the North. And Fringilla is shocked by that. She's like, I would never do that. And he was like, ah, you never know. And it's—and it's not going to upset the Emperor. So it's, um, it's an interesting look into both of their psyches. Yeah.

MITCH: Yeah, I feel like Cahir, he's kind of in the middle of a Zuko arc. But the—Cahir like probably at the beginning of the— of the season, they're kind of planting ideas that maybe we can follow him as a certain character, but probably even like root for him in certain situations, especially since he teams up with Yennefer, who we are supposed to root for him. But maybe this scene is just a reminder that he— at this point in his life, he still sucks because he may not kill a baby, but he definitely will take credit in killing a baby.

ROB: Especially an Elven baby.

MITCH: Yeah. 

ROB: It's so interesting to Cahir and Fringilla's storyline, there are two other characters that I really appreciate that we got a lot more depth this season than we did last season, especially Fringilla, who I only think was in like a handful of episodes last season, and I think she's in every episode in season two, right? 

ALYSSA: Um, probably, or at least almost every episode.

ROB: Almost every episode. Yeah. Because I really like both of their actor's performances. It's interesting, though, because I feel like after you— after she slaughters, you know, those generals in front of Cahir to kind of establish how much power she has. I feel like in a way, this episode is her kind of dealing with the consequences of that, including the unintended consequences of that is, okay, now, I've shown my power, but what does it actually mean for me to have this power, to wield this power, to use my power, to have my position in Nilfgaard be bettered, to have my stand in be bettered? And so I feel like the concept of killing Francesca's baby, I feel like is a concept for her that, in the back of her mind, she's still, I think, has a part of her from Aretuza, when she was there and studying to be— training to be a witch, and heal and wield chaos magic. Still, I think a part of her even though Nilfgaard has definitely smothered a lot of that. I think she still has at least one line that she won't cross. And I think that makes her a much more interesting character than someone like Cahir, who I think as you said, Mitch, is going through his Zuko arc from Avatar: The Last Airbender. 

ALYSSA: Yeah. 

ROB: And, you know, so he's kind of still in the asshole mode. And he has no problems with—

MITCH: Yeah, he has to restore his honor.

ROB: Yeah, exactly. He has to restore his honor to the Emperor.

ALYSSA: Not the honor. No, that is a very good breakdown of it. And like one of my favorite analogies for the season in general, is that like, to me, Rience could have been Commander Zhao from season one of Avatar.

MITCH: Totally. Yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah, and he could have— he could have been that instead of Voleth Meir and we could have, like, held I guess sympathies for other characters. In any case, Zuko arc, yes, love it. Love the comparison. Very good. And as we move forward, we are sent back to Kaer Morhen, where the witchers are preparing for battle against Ciri and Voleth Meir. Geralt finds Ciri standing beneath the medallion tree and she unleashes a screen that splits the tree, forming a new monolith. Through it, she draws two new basilisks into the continent.  Geralt and Voleth Meir fight in hand-to-hand combat while the witchers are killed by the basilisks one by one, enraging Vesemir enough that he tries to kill the princess around Geralt. We just go straight, you know, into the chaos and into the battle. 

ROB: Yes. Yes.

ALYSSA: Which happens, you know, so quickly. Again, I think it's a lot of the plot points that we've seen throughout the season coming together, and at least, you know, an effective way for—for what we've learned so far, right? She uses her scream, and she pulls up the monolith, we see that happened in episode one of season one, and then what we learned around like episodes 205-206, when Ciri draws in the chernabog from the monolith outside of Cintra, we see her do that again here. It's a little more grandiose this time, there's not as much mystery to it as when Istredd and Geralt see it. We actually see like a full portal, and she brings these— these monsters in. It is a brutal, brutal fight for these witchers.

ROB: This is probably my favorite sequence, like action sequence, of the whole episode because we just get this incredible one long, like slow-motion shot of her taking the shards of the monolith and like sending them towards the witchers. And it's like a profile shot from the side watching the shards go through, and Geralt puts up his shield, some of the witchers get killed, and some of them put up their shields. Great use of, like, geography to kind of give you a sense of like, what's happening, and it's just such a cool shot. I mean, if there's one shot that, like, shows how much bigger the special effects budget for season two is compared to season one, it's this whole shot-slash-sequence for sure. Like they saved all of their money for this, like, final battle. And I think it really pays off because yeah, the CGI creatures, you know, for the basilisks in this episode are such a step up from Season one CGI creatures, for sure.

MITCH: Ah, the Golden Dragon. 

ROB: Oh, yeah. Obviously infamously the Golden Dragon and— but yeah, it's uh—yeah, I really, really liked this whole battle sequence and just kind of the knockdown drag out kind of like a combination of, like, handheld, and then also like Steadicam shots to really get you into the action. I really, really liked this whole action sequence a lot, because if you contrast it to the finale of the first season, which was this big, epic battle. I feel like in a way, this was a good contrast because it felt a bit more personal with Geralt, like really in the action, trying to save Ciri while all these witchers that we've seen over the course of the season, are getting to finally really show off their skills.

ALYSSA: It's definitely a treat. I mean, I guess, you know, the slaughter, that happens aside. They definitely did what they set out to do, when they, you know, wanted to create something to really put a period on the end of the season.

MITCH: I think. Yeah, I mean, I was going to— I wrote this down in my notes, Rob touched on it, I was— I was pretty impressed by the creatures in this sequence, mainly because like, yeah, like in the— in the last season, there are definitely certain sequences where the creatures weren't as polished as maybe they wanted them to be. Obviously, I feel like whenever stuff like this happens, the creators obviously don't want them to look like that. I'm sure they probably didn't like the look of the Golden Dragon as well. Like, I'm sure that was more of a compromise rather than the finished product that they thought. It was good to see creatures like this that look convincing and seems like they're interacting with real-world elements quite well. It's good to see that and it's good to see that they're getting that support from the studio, from their financiers, you know.

ROB: Yeah. I think ILM worked as a visual effects house on season two, and I think they're working on season three as well. And you know, ILM is the—you know, George Lucas's visual effects production company that's now owned by Disney that worked on Star Wars and you know, all these other huge movies. And now they work on all the Star Wars shows. 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And when it was announced that a portion of the special effects was going to be done by the team at ILM, I think that is definitely reflective of the fact that I think Netflix had a lot more confidence in the show, after the success of the first season and given them a bigger budget, and hopefully, that continues over into season three.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, they were nominated for a Creative Arts Emmy. 

ROB: Yes.

ALYSSA: And actually, the team from–if I'm pronouncing this correctly–Platige Image, or Platige Image, which is actually based in Poland–

MITCH: Oh, I heard about this.

ALYSSA: –was able to go to the Emmys. And yeah, which is really awesome. I think they were specifically nominated for episode one, but that could have been a different award show. Yeah, that's— that's frickin awesome that they—that they got the recognition for that and they were able to attend.

MITCH: And there's also totally a Jurassic Park reference in this episode.

ROB: Yes. I wrote that in my notes. I literally wrote “Jurassic Park reference as the camera dallies on some water bowl vibrating”.

ALYSSA: Oh my God, I didn't make that connection, but you're so right. Especially like the two, like just having the two come out of the portal together. I feel like that's also very much like the scene in the kitchen.

MITCH: Well, yeah, I mean, if you look in the— in the history of CG creatures, like Jurassic Park, is probably the, like, the most historic reference that you can get. It's–the T- Rex is like the gold standard of—of the CG creature in visual effects history. That was probably one of the first times that a CG creature really made such an impact on a movie.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And I'm excited to, like, dig into the fight more as we—you know, see how it plays out over the course of the episode.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we get to the rest of the discussion, we’re going to take a break here. Next episode, join me, Mitch from the US, and Rob Pigott from the US as we continue our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher 208, “Family.”

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Wolf, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Jeanette of Brokilon, Miriam of Temeria, Softie, and Mary the Moo.

Special thanks to Mitch and Rob for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: Kristianne Benganio

 

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