Ep. 70 — The Future of 'The Witcher’ at Netflix, ‘Blood Origin’, and Season 3 with Lars from WitcherFlix
In this special conversation, Lars from WitcherFlix joins Alyssa to discuss ‘The Witcher’ Seasons 2 and 3, ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’, and the future of the Witcher at Netflix. Very important bits include: the highs and lows of Season 2 and look ahead to Season 3; our predictions and questions for the upcoming limited series, ‘Blood Origin’; the spin-off stories we’d green-light; the elephant in the room; and Lars’ Prophecy.
This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.
In this Episode
[00:00] Cold Open
[00:57] Introduction
[06:54] Discussion
[59:54] Outro & Credits
Relevant Links
Guest Application: Be A Guest on Breakfast In Beauclair Season 5 and 6! (Google Forms)
Listener Survey (2022): Take the Breakfast in Beauclair Listener Survey (Google Forms)
Transcript
Cold Open
LARS: Again, I have to mention that I’ve written about this in my, in my history book.
ALYSSA: Hair flip, hair flip.
LARS: Yeah, no, this is not–oh man, I just didn’t mean to brag, sorry! It wasn’t meant that way!
ALYSSA: Oh, no, I–
LARS: I don’t want to come–
ALYSSA: I’m proud of you, Lars! I’m proud of you.
LARS: Oh, no.
ALYSSA: Let’s hear about your book, what did you write in your book?
LARS: Well, I just wanted to say that, uh…
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
Introduction
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.
[The Witcher: Blood Origin]
‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’ premieres on Christmas Day! Submit your bingo card suggestions and premiere shots to the podcast via social or greetings@breakfastinbeauclair.com. Watch my highlights of the limited series on the Breakfast in Beauclair social media channels: TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter.
[Be A Guest on Breakfast in Beauclair Seasons 5 and 6]
I’m looking for guests for the next two seasons of Breakfast in Beauclair! If you love The Witcher universe and want to discuss its themes and story with our community, apply to be on the podcast! Join us for Season 5, which will cover Andrzej Sapkowski’s Time of Contempt, and Season 6, which will cover Netflix’s The Witcher Season 3. Apply today at bit.ly/witcherguest56. That’s bit.ly/witcherguest56. Applications will be open through January 2023.
[Breakfast in Beauclair Annual Listener Survey]
For the last three years, I’ve sent out an annual listener survey to understand how the podcast has performed this year in order to improve future seasons. This is an opportunity for you to let me know what you’d like more of or what can be done better at Breakfast in Beauclair. Complete this year’s listener survey at bit.ly/listenersurvey2022.
[Patron Announcements]
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[Episode Details]
As for this episode, Lars from WitcherFlix joins us for a special discussion of ‘The Witcher’ Season 2, ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’, and the future of ‘The Witcher’ at Netflix. Join us as we discuss the highs and lows of Season 2 and look ahead to Season 3; our predictions and questions for the upcoming limited series, ‘Blood Origin’; the spin-off stories we’d green-light; the elephant in the room; and Lars’ Prophecy.
Without further ado, let’s get to our conversation on ‘The Witcher’ at Netflix with Lars from WitcherFlix.
Discussion
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, my name is Alyssa, and today I have a very special guest for the show. My guest today is a beloved staple in the fandom, best known from Witcherflix, your go-to destination for daily news and Witcher lore. He's also a writer and songwriter and has produced an entire album inspired by the Witcher as well as an upcoming book, A Short History of the Northern Kingdoms. Please welcome back Lars from Witcherflix. Hi Lars.
LARS: Hey, Alyssa. Hi.
ALYSSA: It's so nice to see you and hear from you. Um, it's been a hot second since you were last on the podcast as a guest. I think we had you at the beginning of 2021 to open Blood of Elves. So what have you been up to the last two years?
LARS: Yeah, lots of news to cover, I think, about the Witcher Netflix show in the last almost two years, right?
ALYSSA: Isn’t that crazy?
LARS: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there was the release of the show last year. Lots of paths around the show since then, lots of things have happened.
ALYSSA: And then you also have your album that you made after season one of The Witcher show, as well as your upcoming book A Short History of the Northern Kingdoms.
LARS: Yeah, I'm still editing the book. Yeah, it will cover the whole history of the Northern Kingdoms up from the start of the first elder races appeared on the continent, right until, I don't know, the final chapter will be about the first Nilfgaardian war.
ALYSSA: Ah, okay.
LARS: And yeah, I don't know, thousands of years.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: In about, at about 70,000 words.
ALYSSA: Oh.
LARS: That's the word count at the moment.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: So it's yeah, it's actually, it's a novel. It's a novel-length. Yeah.
ALYSSA: Oh, that's so exciting. I'm sure we'll talk about this when we have our discussion of Blood Origin today. But how did you go about compiling some of the history from The Witcher world? I think famously, Sapkowski has throwaway lines everywhere about what goes on and when. But if it's not necessarily central to the plot, he doesn't really build it out. So where did you get the inspiration to do this, and how has the process been?
LARS: Absolutely. I got the inspiration right after reading Fire and Blood by George R. R. Martin, of course, that has been adapted into House of the Dragon. And yeah, after reading that three years ago, maybe four years ago, I don't really remem—remember, I thought about well, wouldn't it be great if there was a book like this set in the Witcher world.
ALYSSA: Uh, would, yeah!
LARS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Sapkowski would never do it.
LARS: Of course, Sapkowski would never release something like that. He always says that the characters only serve the plot. This is a sentence he said when—well, when we visited—visited Luca, back in 2019. When we saw him talk about—
ALYSSA: Everything.
LARS: —the show-up and all that stuff. Everything. Right. And yeah, I thought about what, okay, so um, I have to do this myself. I just want to read about it. Well, let's give it a try and start the research. Yeah, you're right, there are some sentences all throughout the books, but nothing's too substantial, I would say when it comes to the early history on the continent.
ALYSSA: Sure.
LARS: Well, this is why the chapters on the early history of the continents, of course, isn't as thorough or aren't as thorough as the later chapters. Yeah, just like in our own world’s history, I don't know, how much do we know about ancient cultures, Sumerian? I don't know what the English expression is for that, for that culture. The first ancient culture in what is nowadays Iraq and Iran. Well, we don't know that much, of course, compared to 18th, 19th-century history. And yeah, that's like that, in this fake history book I'm writing at the moment. And yeah, but I think it's—what's so interesting about that. There is a lot about the later history on the continent, but not as much as maybe he's writing about the present day, of course. So it's kind of like a canvas maybe.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: So I can, where you—have the opportunity to fill the gaps, of course, always in the spirit of Sapkowski. And, yeah, there's a lot of things in this history book, where I filled the gaps, and I got myself inspired by—yeah, actual Greek legends of mythology.
ALYSSA: Okay.
LARS: And I put something like that in the books as well. So there's one Greek story from the Greek—from Greek mythology that I kind of adapted into the Witcher world.
ALYSSA: Oh, that's so interesting. I mean, that in and of itself does feel like it takes the spirit of Sapkowski because he appropriates mythology from everywhere.
LARS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: So I love that you brought that in as well. Well, I'm so excited to hear more about that, as I said, as we discuss The Witcher: Blood Origin and beyond. But for now, what we're going to do today is basically do a recap of The Witcher season two, we'll talk about Blood Origin, as well as the possible future for The Witcher at Netflix. The Witcher season two was a loose adaptation of part of the plot points of Blood of Elves by Andrzej Sapkowsi, the first novel that he had written for The Witcher, and it covered everything from A Grain of Truth from the short stories, all the way through Ciri's time at Kaer Morhen and other plot points that we might be familiar with from that first book. So some of the things that had really stood out to me about The Witcher season two, huge praise for, I think, the overall production. I was really impressed with certain aspects of the sets, of the props. The costumes were nice. Parts of the story that I really enjoyed were adaptations of A Grain of Truth, which I thought, even with production liberties, I thought, was a really great adaptation of a short story that we all love. The other standout for me was really the development of the Nilfgaardian and Elven Alliance. I felt that that plot point overall was something that there was a lot of room to play with because it's never really discussed in the books. And so I had a lot of fun watching that storyline play out. On the flip side, one of my biggest critiques for season two is really wrapped up in the Voleth Meir storyline. I don't think that'll come as a surprise for anyone who's listened through this season of Breakfast in Beauclair. But I felt that the character of Voleth Meir impacted the storyline in a way that it removed agency for some of the characters that I would have liked to see more of. So obviously, the characters that directly interacted with her: Yennefer, Fringilla and Francesca. So yeah, I would have loved to see that inverted. I certainly think that had Rience and Lydia had much more of a focus in season two, they would have been more than enough to keep our trio preoccupied. So I don't think that there was necessarily a need for Voleth Meir, and by the end, it kind of leaves our trio in a state that they hadn't been in in the books. But what were some of the highs and lows that you might want to discuss?
LARS: Yeah. Absolutely, I agree with everything you said. The first thing, of course, that caught my eye was the production value was such a step up from season one. I like that very much, especially the design and the animations of the monsters. I thought they were flawless. I love that they added new monsters that didn't appear in the books, such as the chernabog, which even has its roots in Slavic mythology. This little hint at Baba Yaga, I love that as well of course. What I really thought was great, was the casting again.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: Just like in season one, the actors and actresses were, well, all-around great, I think. Well, I can even tell you what my favorite character or actor or actress was in season two because there was so many.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: I think the side characters even stepped up the game. Well, I loved Triss in season two, Anna Shaffer did a very great job as well as Royce Pearson as Istredd.
ALYSSA: Oh, yeah, he was great.
LARS: Even though he doesn't appear in Blood of Elves. So he was actually kind of a new creation for this adaptation of Blood of Elves. Yeah, of course. Kim Bodnia as Vesemir did a great job. Kristofer Hivju as Nivellen in the adaptation of A Grain of Truth.
ALYSSA: So good.
LARS: Absolutely. Maybe my overall favorite episode off the whole show, it's a tie with the one with a striga and uh—
ALYSSA: Betrayer Moon. Yeah.
LARS: Betrayer Moon. Right, right. And yeah, this was great as well. And my personal favorite minor characters definitely in season two were Codringher and Fenn.
ALYSSA: Oh, they were so much fun.
LARS: I love the two—they had, I think two scenes. I don't really remember, just a few short scenes, but I loved them from the moment I saw them, they were absolutely perfect.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: I think they could even make a great show in itself together. A detective story, maybe, on the continent where they solve riddles. I don't know, that was perfect. They—Simon Callow and Liza Carr did absolutely great jobs. Love them. And yeah, so the—I think the production value the actors and actresses as well as A Grain of Truth, the episodes, were totally stand out in season one for me. Of course, I said, I agree with all of you said, so yeah, there were some things I didn't quite like, of course, in season two, and Voleth Meir is at the top of my list as well, I have to admit. Whether she took—this character turned the whole story upside down, not only from a book reader's perspective, because a lot of parts of season two was barely recognizable as an adaptation of Blood of Elves. But also because Voleth Meir changed a lot of characters and the characterizations, it's actually exactly what you said and talked about just a few minutes ago. In the beginning, I was quite intrigued by Voleth Meir, not only because she appeared as a Baba Yaga in this first sequence in the hut—well, I loved them. I was kind of surprised. I was intrigued and just wanted to find out what it would lead to. But I thought that this whole plot was over in one or two episodes. And well, Voleth Meir was the main villain in season two, and I wasn't a big fan of that.
ALYSSA: Is there anything that you would have changed or adapted? I think I've talked repeatedly on the podcast about what I would change, I would really focus on Rience and Lydia, I think as those two big villains. I think they were really more focused on Jaskier and Yennefer this season, but really pushing them out and everybody feeling their impact across the continent. And I think that would have been enough for the season. But are there any changes or adaptations that you would make if Voleth Meir's storyline had been removed?
LARS: Yeah, absolutely. There are some minor changes of course, they were mentioned on your podcast, the dear friend letter.
ALYSSA: Aw.
LARS: Something just a litt—very, very minor moment, but well, it's— it's not only a fan favorite moment.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: But I think it's a very central moment in the book, as well. And it's a standout moment again. And, you know, I was looking forward to this moment and how they would adapt it from the moment the show was first announced back in, I don't know 2018.
ALYSSA: 17.
LARS: 17.
ALYSSA: 17. Yeah.
LARS: 17. Oh, my God. That's almost six years ago. Wow.
ALYSSA: That's how old WitcherFlix is.
LARS: Five years of WitcherFlix, oh that's an anniversary this year. Okay. Yeah, the Dear Friend letter, but also some bigger plot points. I was so looking forward to the chapter where Geralt Ciri and Triss traveled together with Yarpen and the dwarfs.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: And when they stumbled upon the runes of Shaerrawedd and the Scoia’tael commandos have their first appearance. I think this would have made for great television.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: So many character moments, you have action scenes.
ALYSSA: The biggest opportunity I think that we could have had, and the more that I'm kind of thinking about it as I'm formulating thoughts, my perspective is shifting slightly. But you know, we at least did get to see Jeremy Crawford as Yarpen, he's flipping great.
LARS: Absolutely.
ALYSSA: Also listens to the podcast. Hey, Jeremy!
LARS: Yeah, hey!
ALYSSA: But aside from that, you know, I think that a lot of Blood of Elves is spent establishing Ciris's moral compass and setting a baseline for what that is when she's not under duress. Obviously, she's coming from the slaughter of Cintra, we're going to kick off Time of Contempt and the rest of the series, and if you've read the books, you kind of know where that goes. So Blood of Elves really serves as a baseline for all of our characters, really. And so we get to see who these people are when they're relaxed, when, I said, they're not under duress. Ciris’s characterization between Cintra and the rest of the books, a lot of that is developed within the walls of Kaer Morhen, and it is very short, you know, her time there is really only two chapters, which is I think, part of the reason why I was surprised that we spent the entirety of the season there. However, the thing about Kaer Morhen is that it's always a safe place. It's always happy memories and family. I think that's what it really represents for Ciri, and so I think to bring a lot of that back in and have a second slaughter at Kaer Morhen, the first time was, you know, covered in Nightmare of the Wolf. And then this time, you know, the call is coming from inside the house. Beyond that, Ciri is the one who's responsible for it, obviously with Voleth Meir at the wheel, but you know, there's I think it's a really big question about what's going to happen to her, now that she's been set on this path. I wonder how it's gonna continue to affect the show, Ciri's characterization here. And then there's also the dynamic that the three of them have. Because as I've said before, Yennefer has never been in the doghouse with the two of them in such a way. So it'll be interesting to see how that power dynamic changes and develops in season three.
LARS: Yeah, they're all in a different place at the end of season two, then the characters are at the end of Blood of Elves.
ALYSSA: Just different.
LARS: Just different. Yeah. But yeah, this is just something I just wanted to add, just I was—something I was thinking about when you were talking about Kaer Morhen. I loved that we saw so much from Kaer Morhen in season two.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: I love Kaer Morhen as a set, it was great. Especially, oh, this is just something, I just wanted to say again, that you just have to consider that they shot all of this during the pandemic when so many things were impossible. So many delays, so many hardships during this time. And they still managed to create something that looked so great then season—uh, season two. So this is something definitely you need to mention. But well, as you said Kaer Morhen is kind of a second home to Ciri. And of course, when you think about the books, when you think about the Kaer Morhen in the books, several times in the books, the words Kaer Morhen and home are mentioned altogether. So as you said, after all the things that happened in the show, Ciri will never think of Kaer Morhen as a home. It's another place she got traumatized in. And yeah, I think this is quite a different way they chose to go at this point. The fact that Voleth Meir in the final episode was inside of Ciri, made it very hard for me to watch the final episode because while we actually didn't have Ciri in the final episode, we had Voleth Meir in Ciri in the final episode. Even though Ciri is arguably may be the most important character in the whole series.
ALYSSA: Yes.
LARS: Maybe more important than Geralt.
ALYSSA: Oh yeah.
LARS: Yeah. And we didn't quite see her so much in the final episode of season two. And this—I was very sad because of that. And I really hope to see more of Ciri, and not only outward appearance, but also her inside, her thoughts, what she made all of the things she experienced well, in the first two seasons.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, big kudos to Freya Allan though, throughout the season, one with all the stunt training she did. And also with being able to play Voleth Meir as Ciri.
LARS: Absolutely.
ALYSSA: In the final episode.
LARS: She pulled that off, yeah.
ALYSSA: As I mentioned, the Nilfgaardian-Elven Alliance was something that I really enjoyed, and I'd assume that you might have found some interest in it as well, considering how a short history of Northern Kingdoms kind of helps fill in those gaps. I think, you know, Voleth Meir's side, the Nilfgaardian-Elven alliance is something that just, like…happens in the books, in the background, like we—we see the effects of it. But we've never discovered how it actually came about. I think it might be like a line and not in the way that we see it in the show. I think Emhyr made a promise to Francesca, if I remember correctly. That is much less interesting I think than what was actually done between Fringilla and Francesca. And I loved their dynamic throughout the season. I thought that was fantastic. It allowed room to explore both characters in both their power and their, their despair, which I think is really interesting and, and the lengths at which they would go for their people, for power. I thought that that was a great character examination for the two of them, which I loved.
LARS: Yeah, absolutely, especially as a character like Francesca. Well, she doesn't really have any characterization in the books, except for her political agenda, I think. So it's just actually a tool, more or less than just an actual character. So I liked that at first, as well in season two, and of course, that there was politics. I'm always a sucker for politics.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: And so I was happy that we explored some politics that Andrzej Sapkowski didn't really explore in the books that much at least. So yeah, I agree.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And Mimi has been great throughout both seasons, but obviously want to give a shout out to Mecia as well. This is her first role and she killed it as Francesca.
LARS: Yeah, absolutely.
ALYSSA: Those are some of the things that I at least wanted to call out about season two of The Witcher. I think overall, it was definitely an interesting ride, different than the books but I think it did what it set out to do. So I think despite how I felt about Voleth Meir throughout, when I went to rewatch episode eight, it did do a pretty good job of tying together everything that had been done throughout the season. So it did what it set out to do. I have some reservations and there are some really high points. But those are kind of my overall thoughts about The Witcher season two.
LARS: Yeah, absolutely. I agre—totally agree. I remember that my sister who isn't into the Witcher, she has watched the show, she didn't read the books, she didn't play the games. And she loved season two. So she comes from a show-watcher-only perspective, and she doesn't really have the book, in back of her head, she can just watch the show, enjoy it, and she actually enjoyed it. So there are definitely people who had a lot of fun with this, with a season that even—as we as, maybe as book readers, we have some things to criticize. And I have to say I felt entertained throughout season two. So I was definitely able to differentiate between the Witcher as a standalone fantasy show on one hand, and as an adaptation of one of, well, one of my favorite books, on the other hand.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: So if you're able to differentiate as a book reader between those two aspects, you can definitely have fun with season two, I think.
ALYSSA: I love that, that's like a really nice way of, of summarizing that. And as we kind of look ahead, so this episode with Lars will be coming out three days I believe, before The Witcher: Blood Origin premieres on Netflix. So this is the Christmas episode.
LARS: Merry Christmas everyone!
ALYSSA: I forgot to mention that. Merry Christmas everybody, oops. In reality, it's like the weekend after Thanksgiving. So we're doing this about a month in advance. So we haven't seen, really, much about the Witcher Blood Origin, besides the teasers, and then the one trailer character descriptions, that sort of thing. So from what we know about the Witcher Blood Origin, the official plot summary is set in an elven world 1200 years before the time of Geralt, Yennefer, and Ciri. The Witcher: Blood Origin will tell a tale lost to history: the creation of the first prototype Witcher and to the events that led to the pivotal conjunction of the spheres, when the worlds of monsters, men, and elves merged to become one. This feels like a very nice follow-up to our conversation earlier about your Short History of the Northern Kingdoms. But from my understanding, this isn't necessarily a part of the lore that we really know much about. Sapkowski just kind of talks all throughout the series about, like, the conjunction of the spheres. And then there's Filavandrel, who's just like we came on the white ships, and then you get little pieces of lore here and there. But as far as we know, the Witcher worlds and the continent was an elven world, and then the conjunction of the spheres happened, which is what brought in monsters and men. So that's kind of like a brief overview of that. But what are some of your thoughts about the upcoming show, and what opportunities for storytelling do you think they have based on what you know about the history of the continent?
LARS: Yeah, right. I think, just like I said earlier, the fact that they chose to adapt the times of the conjunction of the spheres, results in some kind of canvas that they have. Left a blank canvas. There isn't a lot that Sapkowski has written about this conjunction and the early times of the Elves, or the arri— or the arrival of the humans and other species. And I think yeah, this is a very great chance for them to explore this time and create a story that fits right into the Witcher world, and create something new at the same time. This is something I'm looking forward to, what actually maybe happened during this time. Yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. A bit about the production of Blood Origin. Blood Origin is being showran by Declan de Barra, who wrote a couple of notable episodes for The Witcher main series as well. He wrote Of Banquets, Bastards, and Burials, which I believe was episode four in season one, as well as A Grain of Truth, which was the season premiere of season two. Both, you know, standout episodes. So I'm excited to see what perspective he's bringing to this. If I remember correctly, I think he wrote a tweet at some point, you know, in the last two years or so, about just kind of finding an opportunity to, hey, we have room for more stories set in the Witcher universe, why not this? I'm so curious about this, the conjunction of the spheres. So I'm really curious to see, like, his take on that. And there's a really interesting cast, which I'm so excited about.
LARS: Totally.
ALYSSA: Because there's Michelle Yeoh, who's, you know, phenomenal and who's generating Oscar buzz with Everything Everywhere All At Once. And then it's a ton of newcomers, which I think is awesome. Netflix and then their partner production companies of the last few years have done a really great job in investing in new talent and turning, you know, people into superstars, when you think about shows like Sex Education—
LARS: Well, Stranger Things.
ALYSSA: That's part of the reason why I'm super excited and hopeful for The Witcher: Blood Origin because I'd love to see, you know, some of these actors getting their due. And I think that'll be great for, for the show as well. And then Michelle will also be the very first East Asian actor.
LARS: Oh, that's so great.
ALYSSA: To have a line in The Witcher and I'm so excited for that.
LARS: Yeah. Well, I'm a big fan of this country, of the beautiful Icelandic landscapes.
ALYSSA: Oooh, Yeah.
LARS: They are absolutely perfect to stand in for a show that focuses on civilizations and cultures that are long gone and existed in prehistoric times. And well, the landscapes were so breathtaking in this short teaser trailer. So I'm really looking forward to seeing more of this. The fact that the Witcher shoots in Iceland is just awesome.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I haven't been to Iceland. Have you? It looks lovely.
LARS: It's—It's so beautiful. Yeah, I don't know. In 2017, I think just for 10 days.
ALYSSA: Pre-WitcherFlix.
LARS: Pre-WitcherFlix, uh yeah. A few months before I started this page.
ALYSSA: Is that the last time you had a break?
LARS: Yeah, maybe? Well—
ALYSSA: Oh, no.
LARS: No, of course not. No. At the time, I was, like, I think a lot of people who are listening to your podcast, on hundred percent into Game of Thrones—
ALYSSA: Hmm. Yeah.
LARS: —and this is why I did several Game of Thrones tours in Iceland, which were great. Of course, they were done by extras who were on the show. Breathtaking landscape, and maybe someday there's a Blood Origin tour in Iceland. And we all have to go to Iceland again.
ALYSSA: Maybe one day there's a Hanza meet-up in Iceland.
LARS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: I think everybody has to go to the Blue Lagoon. Whatever.
LARS: Yeah. Beautiful.
ALYSSA: Are you coming to Austria with us next year?
LARS: Yeah, I just have to check my calendar first.
ALYSSA: Tentatively October. Tentatively October.
LARS: October next year.
ALYSSA: Short hop, skip, jump. Cool. Okay. And I guess to keep the ball rolling when we think about the trailer, we haven't gotten too, too much about the plot, which is, you know, okay, by me. I think a lot of what we know about the show right now is coming from written descriptions from Netflix on their social media or on their official website. From what we've heard, there are three warring clans that have to work together when the conjunction happens? Like it's a little unclear and that's okay by me. Like, I don't mind not knowing too, too much before we get in. But I am excited to see what happens. I will be a little sad if Michelle Yeoh dies at any point.
LARS: She won't, she won't. Maybe in a—
ALYSSA: She could.
LARS: —it will, a heroic moment, in the final scene maybe that's, maybe this would be okay?
ALYSSA: Maybe, maybe. I'd be super sad if Michelle Yeoh died in the show. Scian, I think her name is.
LARS: Scian, right.
ALYSSA: You know, from what we've seen, the production looks interesting. And I'm excited to dive into something, as said, that we haven't explored in any medium, really. So it's— it's kind of ripe for, for opportunity. Hopefully, this will kind of see a continuation of limited series that really explore the world as I think Netflix continues to invest in The Witcher in general.
LARS: Yeah, totally. What's interesting about this show, is that almost I think the whole cast is with elven characters. We have a, an Elven show, an elf show. I can—well, no, at the top of my head, I can think of another show that focuses that much only on elves, and this is— well, other than Lord of the Rings and Rings of Power, of course, the elves are, well, these are different elves, of course, but they aren't part of the story. But it feels like in Blood Origin, the elves from what we know at this point, they are the story. And this is quite interesting, I think. And I'm really looking forward to that. Especially when you think about the few things Andrzej Sapkowski writes about the times before the conjunction of the spheres. We know that the elves have built beautiful cities, palaces. Yeah, they weren't really a warfighting nation. I think up to this point, because they, they were the dominating species on the continent.
ALYSSA: I feel like they did mention they fought dwarves and gnomes.
LARS: Sure, for a short period of time, but they didn't go to war for centuries with the— with the gnomes and the dwarves like they did with the humans later on. Of course, you have to mention that the wars wasn't because of the Elves. It was because of the humans, of course. But yeah, seeing the Elven kingdoms in all of the beauty and prime maybe, I hope so, of course, at least.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: Will be great, I think.
ALYSSA: Yeah, that would be really interesting. That wasn't something that I had considered. But you're totally right. Like when we hear about a lot of cities in The Witcher, such as Cintra, and a number of others, they're all built on Elven foundations. If I'm remembering correctly, I don't remember seeing a ton of architecture. We had a lot of interior shots in some of the trailers. So I remember there being like, a very, very white room at some point. We've seen a couple of like, almost politically, looking scenes. I do know that one of the actors from Sex Education is here as a royal in The Witcher Blood Origin. And so there are a few interior shots. But I think all of the exterior shots we've seen are mostly like vistas, like it's Iceland.
LARS: Right.
ALYSSA: So I'd be really curious to find out if we're going to see some of that really incredible architecture. And I think the question that follows becomes, ooh, is there ever any point at which we actually see the elves destroying that legacy? That what I think would be a very, very interesting close to the show. If some of that was focused on just tearing down the, their palaces and fleeing, but I don't know what the timeframe is for this.
LARS: Yeah, we—we don't know.
ALYSSA: So you know, we'll see, yeah. So there is one thing we haven't spoken about at all. Yeah, with Blood Origin. And that's the creation of the first prototype witcher.
LARS: Of course. Maybe the most important thing. Yeah. Right.
ALYSSA: Yeah. So yeah.
LARS: Good question, how they're doing, like, doing that? I remember the books. The first Witcher was created by two mages, human mages, that is. I don't know how many one hundred years after the conjunction of the spheres, maybe.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: But I think they will shorten the time from the conjunction of the spheres to the creation of the first witcher a little bit, just for the sake of the show. But I have a feeling that maybe the Elves could be the ones to create the first witcher because we only have Elven characters that we know of. Maybe?
ALYSSA: Yeah. I think that's part of my question about like, when does the conjunction happen? It's a four-episode limited series. So I would assume that it happens at the end of episode one, or at the end of episode four.
LARS: Oh, right. Yeah, hmm.
ALYSSA: There's nowhere else to go. So I'd be—yeah, same thing. I'd be curious to see if it's humans that start this. If it's like the humans' way of, of dealing with the elves? Is it the humans’ way of dealing with monsters as we heard in Nightmare of the Wolf? Or is somehow an elf, the first prototype Witcher?
LARS: Yeah, maybe.
ALYSSA: And what does it mean? Yeah, I have no idea. Just all questions, that would be answered in three days' time.
LARS: In a few days, right?
ALYSSA: And I think a standing question. I feel like I'm gonna get—there's definitely people who are going to turn off this episode of the podcast or hit forward, like, 30-40 seconds. Monoliths.
LARS: Yeah, right. The monoliths. Yeah.
ALYSSA: The monoliths are such a huge part of the Netflix series that were brought in during season one. And we do see them in, in the trailers for Blood Origin. So I wonder if this is also going to be a monolith origin story?
LARS: Yeah, I think so. Especially as it would be a good way to connect the two shows.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And then we'll also see Jaskier and Minnie Driver—
LARS: Right.
ALYSSA: —doing that too. So yeah, so lots of potential for crossover. If people are coming from the main series to Blood Origin and back again, I'm optimistic.
LARS: Yeah, for sure.
ALYSSA: I think the show will do what it is set out to do. And we're excited, just kind of like, sit back for the ride.
LARS: Yeah, I mean, it's Christmas, and we have new Witcher. So some time to watch The Witcher on Christmas, what's not to like about that? So yeah—
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: But you're right. We will see what it will be like, the show and well, we can stay optimistic. So it's always better to be optimistic than pessimistic.
ALYSSA: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
LARS: So there are a lot of signs that point to it being a nice addition to the Witcher Netflix-verse, maybe, only three more days to go.
ALYSSA: Yeah, for you guys.
LARS: For you guys, we have to wait a month.
ALYSSA: For you guys listening to the podcast, we have to wait a month. And yeah, so I think as we look beyond the Witcher Blood Origin, there's quite an expanse of opportunities that Netflix is kind of moving toward for the future of The Witcher. Obviously, there's season three of the main series. And then we have a number of previously announced spin-off shows and films. So they've talked about some sort of animated family show, other anime movies, possible live-action series, limited series, similar to Blood Origin. So there's a lot of—a lot of places that Netflix is going to take us within the world of the continent. But just to address the elephant in the room, we know that season three, which will premiere next summer will be Henry Cavill's final season as Geralt of Rivia. I don't want to spend time speculating on why, I just personally, I don't think it's my personal business for why he's leaving. I just don't think it's worth discussing, nor do I necessarily think that anything is going to change that decision. It has already been announced. Netflix and Henry have established that they have their contracts, they have their legal teams. And so the why for me is not part of this. However, we are looking ahead, then, to Liam Hemsworth for season four. So how are you feeling about the casting change? Like what are your kind of overall thoughts about what this could mean for the future of The Witcher?
LARS: Yeah, I remember that it was a Saturday when it was announced. And I was just, uh–
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: Sitting right in front of TV watching, I don't know what. And suddenly, my sister, again, out of all people, wrote me–
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: “Have you heard already, Henry Cavill is out!” And I just looked it up and I—well, it was, it was a shock. I have to—I have to admit this was a shock because I never expected something like this. It took a—I need a few minutes to compress. But yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I was similar. Somebody had to tell me. So I was actually at a bachelor party for one of my good friends.
LARS: Oh, okay.
ALYSSA: We were on like, I don't drink, but we were going on like a 12-15 hour bar hopping binge.
LARS: Wow. Okay.
ALYSSA: So they started at noon, and then I was not on my phone the whole day. So I had no idea and I don't get Discord notifications for the ha—for any Discord. And the Hanza Discord was blowing up. And apparently, they had decided not to text me or anything, because people in the community knew that I was out all weekend, which is kind of them. But as soon as I opened up Discord, 350 missed messages in the Netflix channel.
LARS: Okay.
ALYSSA: And I only opened it because I got a text from someone who I'd been on like two dates with, saying, hey, did you hear the news about Henry Cavill? I was like, what? Oh no. So that night, you know, opened it up. My reaction, though, obviously, I was surprised. But I think on a certain level, I wasn't shocked if there's a distinction to be found there. Part of the reason for that, I think comes back to what I said before with the Blood Origin actors, and with Stranger Things, with Sex Education, and the when you look at shows like Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon, I do believe that the production team believed that Henry Cavill was the right person for the role. And he's done an incredible job, of course, of the last two seasons, and I'm sure he's gonna put us all into season three as well. However, hindsight is 20/20, all that. I am surprised that they banked on an A-list movie star to carry a TV show that could run for 10 years. Like, especially when production takes, like, the filming itself, not even production, but the filming itself can take anywhere from half a year to nine months or more. That's a lot to lock in an A-list actor for. So part of me isn't necessarily shocked or surprised. But I do think it's part of the outcome of like that investment. And when you look at shows like the ones that I named, a lot of them are led by actors who are just starting out, I think, especially when those actors grew up on set.
LARS: Yeah, right. Right after it, I made a post on my Instagram page was, which as you said before, is about Witcher news, and well—of course, it totally blew up and all the people that commented on it were shocked as well.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: As you said before, it's not on us to speculate, what actually was the reason for it. We have to accept it anyway that Henry Cavill is not the Witcher anymore after season three. But I think there are a lot of things that can make or break a show. And it not only depends on one actor or recast.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: And when we talked about season two, at the beginning of this episode, we mentioned so many things that were great, and that we didn't think were not so good, right? And they weren't related to actors or actresses.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: So I think there are so many aspects that are equally, if not more important than one single actor, even though of course, Henry is the main actor, the show is named after his character, of course. He plays the most important character in the show, of course–
ALYSSA: Ciri.
LARS: –with Ciri in mind, of course, yeah, there are so many other things that are so important for season three and season four, which is, well, confirmed by now, that could make the show great or not so great. So this is something that we always have to keep in mind when thinking about how well—what's—what now, what's what's happening now with The Witcher. Because yeah, it's always so hard to find the right words with this topic, you know, as you said before.
ALYSSA: I mean, obviously, we wish Henry all the best.
LARS: Sure. Of course.
ALYSSA: You know, I don't think he needs our well wishes, but I do wish him the best, of course, I'm genuinely interested to see what Liam Hemsworth will bring to the role. And I think again, like, you know, hopefully, he'll ride out the rest of the series. There are so many moments that I'm looking forward to seeing on screen, Baptism of Fire, my all-time favorite book, excited to see what Liam will do with some of that material because it's so fun, like imagine coming onto a project, and the first thing that you have is Baptism of Fire. That sounds like a delight from Geralt's perspective, like an actor's perspective, stepping into Geralt, how fun.
LARS: Yeah, sure.
ALYSSA: What a great book to start on.
LARS: Yeah, definitely. So I think we just—all the people that are quite critical towards him, just give him a chance first and see what he's doing with the role. Of course, he will make Geralt his own, he will make his own interpretation of Geralt, but well, but maybe it's, it's equally great. So let's see first.
ALYSSA: And I think as we move on, there's so much more I think besides the main series, of course, that as I said, Netflix is exploring. Some things we've heard a little bit about, some things we haven't. But there's the animated family show. There’s other animated movies, there's other limited series in the pipeline. What are some of your curiosities, speculations about some of the spin-off shows and films?
LARS: Yeah, right. There’s so much to explore in the coming years for the Witcher, if all the rumors are true of course, always keep—have to keep that in mind. But I think, as you said, the kids and family show is confirmed by Netflix. And I think the second anime movie as well. When I first heard about the kids and family show, I had a thing of a post I did on April the First in I don't know—two years ago.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: Because what I always do on my Instagram page, an April Fools posts, about all kinds of stuff. And that year, I made a post about Netflix doing a kids and family show, a cartoon about Roach.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: So I'm still hoping that they maybe took inspiration from my post. This kids and family show would be about Roach.
ALYSSA: Get that payout, Lars.
LARS: Yeah, right. I just have to consult my lawyer, maybe. No. But yeah, I think there was an interview with Lauren Hissrich, the showrunner of the main show, where she was— said that a kids show and The Witcher doesn’t really fit together, as there's so many brutality and violence in The Witcher world. But if you strip The Witcher from this violence and brutality, well, you have fairytales and morality tales and stuff like that. And well, that's a great foundation for a kids show, I think.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: I know, I'm not the target audience, maybe. But I'm really looking forward to it. So if it really happens, this show, one of the first people to watch it may be with my nieces, who would be the target audience?
ALYSSA: Oh, I mean, I'd watch it by myself.
LARS: Yeah, you're right.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: I would probably as well, yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah. But I definitely agree. I've spoken on recent podcasts about this as a guest, but there are so many core values that I think are explored in The Witcher. And then of course, you have the scenes at Kaer Morhen that we'd spoken about, in which Ciri is kind of defining her own moral compass, throughout chapters two and three of Blood of Elves. We just know so little about this, but there are so many opportunities for where this could go. Like whether it is this storybook of different, you know, fables that take place in The Witcher, or if it's like Vesemir has a new story for you. Lambert has a new story for you, don't pant like a dying mammoth. We just don't know too much about it yet. So I’d be very curious. And I'm also really curious about the art style.
LARS: Oh yeah.
ALYSSA: And, like, where the opportunities are with that because when you think about kids and family, it's either 2D digital animation or 3D digital animation. And I just don't even know where which would fit in. I would assume 2D animation, similar to Nightmare of the Wolf, but obviously, like the characters in that anime are a representation of that media. They're angular, they're hot. Everything's, like, over the top. So I'm really curious to, like, see how they'll make not just the material but also the artwork and the—the art direction kid friendly.
LARS: Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I did this post with, I think I called my fake show, Roach’s Adventures.
ALYSSA: It was very cute.
LARS: It was—this idea was based on a German kids' show called Bibi and Tina, which is about two girls, I don't know, who’re living on a horse farm, I think. And one of these girls is a witch and has magical powers.
ALYSSA: Cute.
LARS: So it's not—that different from The Witcher and because of this post, I always imagined this show in the art style of Bibi and Tina, but I don't think this will ever happen, because I don't know. It doesn't look that great, especially if you compare it to maybe other Netflix animated shows.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I have not explored the Netflix kids animated catalog.
LARS: Uh-huh, really, huh?
ALYSSA: But I have looked at, um, the adult animation on Netflix. So adult animation is a very specific art style. When you look at shows like Inside Job, Big Mouth has a very, very specific animation style, and the way that I think someone phrased animation for adult cartoons in general, it's like who can be the absolute ugliest, and still make a television show? And you know, there's—there's still parts of adult animation that I could see that with. But yeah, when it comes to the kid's stuff, I think there's a huge amount of opportunity there. So I'm excited to see the development behind that and why they chose the direction that they did. As we grow from kids' animation to adult animation, the new anime movie, so this is not a direct follow up, but follow up to The Witcher: Nightmare of the Wolf, which focused on the sacking of Kaer Morhen, and all we know about the new anime film is that it's either supposedly called, or the working title, is The Witcher: Sirens of the Deep. So if you've read the books, there's so much that I think we could speculate from the title alone. When I first heard Sirens of the Deep, the very first thing it brought me back to was the short story A Little Sacrifice, in which Geralt is fighting this underwater army and these guards from I believe the city of Yis. Yeah, that was the first thing I thought of. But what do you think about it?
LARS: Yeah, when I heard the title, of course, I took it quite literally. And the sirens reminded me of course of Skellige in, well, The Witcher #, even though it's, of course, adapting something from the books. But yeah, I think A Little Sacrifice would be a perfect story to adapt in a standalone movie. And yeah, great to see, I mean, Essi Daven on screen, this would definitely be something I would absolutely watch.
ALYSSA: She's—she's fantastic. But I think then there's also the question of like, Sirens of the Deep, could that be, again, like another pre-Witcher thing? Or could it be an adaptation of the short story, there's so much opportunity to kind of like move the timeline and scale.
LARS: Yeah, at least the word sirens hint at the fact that it has to take place near the sea, or near the waterside, at least because, well, sirens in Greek mythology are the creatures that attack sailors on the boats. I think it could be set by the sea.
ALYSSA: So much to go off there, though. I'm so excited to learn more about it. Because as much as Nightmare of the Wolf stressed me out, it was very fun to watch. The art style was great. And I loved how they had a certain level of crossover between the live-action series and you know what we saw in the anime, so things like the medallion tree, which looked fantastic in both mediums. And I love that they had that. The last thing that's possible in the future of The Witcher at Netflix is continued live-action limited series. So of course, we're starting with The Witcher: Blood Origin, for episodes, set at the time of the conjunction of the spheres. There are rumors about other possibilities for shows. And I think that, of course, fans have ideas for possibilities for shows and with how little Sapkowski has written about certain parts of the world and the characters, there's a lot like you can find entire series within the cracks of the current books. You know, I'm sure we'll see how this will play out. Like I said, that there are rumors about possibilities for storylines. Are there any subjects that you would like to see explored in a limited series if you had four to six episodes to dive into something in The Witcher world?
LARS: Yeah, absolutely. Again, I have to mention that I've written about this in my—in my history book. This is the part of The Witcher history or the history of the continent, that was just awesome to write about. I'm talking about Falka’s Rebellion.
ALYSSA: Oh, yeah.
LARS: It's one of the stories Sapkowski actually wrote quite a lot about compared to other aspects of the history of The Witcher world. And well, it's just a great story. One of the advantages of this story to adapt is, it has kind of a clear start, and of course, a clear end. It has a climax and well it has everything you need for a good story. It has interesting characters. It has well—well I don't really know if it has gray morals.
ALYSSA: I think so. Yeah.
LARS: I mean, it depends on the way you're adapting.
ALYSSA: I think it does.
LARS: Yeah, of course. Falka is always made out to be that demon-like character. She's one of the worst persons who ever lived, for example, in House of the Dragon, or Fire and Blood, of George R.R Martin. This is not always the case, this is what historians made her out to be.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: We don't really know if Falka was that whole person, and what she's fighting for her throne, because, well, she's the daughter of the king of Redania, and the king of Redania remarries, and she was the first in line of succession. And then his new wife gives her two sons. And of course, these two sons are ahead of her in succession. And she and her mother, the first wife of the king of Redania has sent away to Kovir and Poviss–
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: –and where—there she's brooding and together with her mother, she's thinking about how to take back that throne. And from here it all escalates.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
LARS: And I think that would be a great story to tell in four to six episodes, with lots of twists and turns. And yeah, I would really like to see that on screen.
ALYSSA: That's so interesting because it's funny that as you're describing Falka’s Rebellion, it does sound similar to House of the Dragon.
LARS: Totally.
ALYSSA: Which was published in 2018. I just looked it up. So it's from like, at least 20-30 years after Sapkowski wrote about Falka's Rebellion. But I totally agree with you, that would be such a great thing to not only have as a standalone, limited series, but it feeds very nicely into certain aspects of Ciri's storyline.
LARS: Totally.
ALYSSA: Without spoilers. But that would provide, I think, a lot of color without necessarily having to watch it, which is, I think, like a perfect limited series, then. That's such a good one.
LARS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Some of the things that I would love to see as limited series, pre-Baptism of Fire vignettes of the Hanza, I think would be really fun. And then I think there are continued opportunities with a lot of the secondary and tertiary characters that we see throughout the Witcher, like in general, like a lot of the armies and infantry could be incredibly cool to explore on both the Northern Kingdom side, as well as the Nilfgaardian side, because we spend a lot of time in action sequences in the Netflix series, sometimes for the sake of action, but you know, it is what it is, but not too much time in like the actual war. And neither does Sapkowski. So I feel like establishing a certain level of investment in the military campaigns, and understanding of how these militaries are run will possibly have really great payoff. You know, when we look ahead to some of the major battles that have defined the second Nilfgardian war.
LARS: Yeah. The war and its consequences is such a big part of The Witcher. This would be definitely a show, not only to watch but would be quite a great foundation, as you said, for the later seasons, maybe. So yeah, great idea as well.
ALYSSA: Yeah. That makes me really excited, though. Like I said, I think there's a lot to possibly look forward to, as we continue to move on with the future of The Witcher at Netflix. Lars, any last thoughts on anything we covered from season two of the Netflix show to Blood Origin or the future of The Witcher at Netflix?
LARS: First, thanks for having me, again, was great fun as always to be on your show. And well, it's an exciting journey. I'd like to say, the years ahead, the months ahead, the shows to watch, there are so many happening at this moment in The Witcher-verse in the—not only in the Netflix Witcher-verse, the next-gen update for The Witcher3 has been released a few days ago.
ALYSSA: It has, yes. It—at the time of recording, we have a few weeks to go. By the time this episode comes out. It'll be about like 8 to 10 days. It'll have come out last week.
LARS: I suppose I have played a lot of The Witcher 3 in the last 10 days, I think.
ALYSSA: Okay. Preparing the body, preparing the mind for jumping back in.
LARS: So well, there’s so much things to look forward to I think. It's a great time, even if not all the news we are learning about the show, maybe that positive for some people. I think there's a lot of things to look forward to and all of the things that are being released in the future. So this is what I'm looking forward to as well. So many things ahead.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I definitely agree. I'm sure that we'll continue to keep up to date with you between Tidings from Toussaint and everything else going on.
LARS: Of course.
ALYSSA: As you said, very much looking forward, to kind, of what's next. So that is it for our show today. Lars, thank you so much for joining us for this episode.
LARS: Thank you.
ALYSSA: And thank you to our Hanza for listening. So I'm sure a lot of people already know. But where can people find you, and is there anything that our community can help you with? Or anything that you'd like to share with them?
LARS: Yeah, it's as I said before, several times, I'm on Instagram witcherflix is the name of my page. All news about the Witcher show and beyond. I got a blog, a website, witcherflix.com
ALYSSA: Oh nice. Yeah.
LARS: Yeah, this is—by the way, this is the place where I'm planning to release A Short History of the Northern Kingdoms when it's finished one day in the hopefully not-so-distant future. So of course, the book will be free for all people to read.
ALYSSA: So thank you again, Lars, for joining us, and next episode, join us as we kick off our discussions of The Witcher: Blood Origin.
Outro & Credits
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.
Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.
Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Wolf, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Miriam of Temeria, Softie, and Mary the Moo.
Special thanks to Lars for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.
Transcriptionist: Charlie Lim
Editor: John Matthew Sarong, Krizia Marrie Casil