Ep. 48 — Netflix’s Nightmare of the Wolf (Part 2)
Rob, TheUndeadGamr, and Piotr from Witcher School join Alyssa for Part 2 of our discussion of Netflix’s anime spin-off film, The Witcher: Nightmare of the Wolf. Very important bits include: the depiction of The Trial of the Grasses in both the film as well as at Witcher School LARP in Poland, Tetra’s Mean Girls moment, the consequences of mutagenic alchemy, the fall of Kaer Morhen and the completion of Vesemir’s arc from a carefree and detached nature to acceptance of responsibility and his destiny.
This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.
In this Episode
[00:00] Cold Open
[00:58] Introduction
[03:45] Discussion
[30:58] Excerpts from an Interview with Beau DeMayo
[34:38] “Dear Friend…”: Listener Call-In Segment
[36:38] Discussion
[1:03:53] Outro & Credits
Relevant Links
Coming Soon
Transcript
Cold Open
ALYSSA: And at this point, you know, Tetra goes through her Regina George moment. Mean Girls is on the brain because there are a bunch of people in the hanza who had never seen it before, because they’re all quite young. So, we sat down a couple of days ago and watched Mean Girls and, uh, A Cinderella Story: Christmas Wish, which was terrible.
ROB: But Mean Girls, one of the best films ever made.
ALYSSA: One of the best films ever—see, Harold? See, Steven?
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
Introduction
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.
[London Meetup: Saturday, February 19]
This Saturday, February 19th, some hanza members are meeting up in London! If you’re local to the area or willing to travel, visit the Hanza Discord and contact Gintare, Elsa, or Sarah CC for more information.
[On The Path: Episode 6: “Dear Friend”]
This Sunday February 20th, I’ll be a guest on “On The Path” to discuss The Witcher Episode 206, “Dear Friend” with Brett and Lucy! I’m so looking forward to recording with them later today and you can hear to my thoughts on Episode 6 of the Netflix show a few months early. Find “On The Path” wherever you get your podcasts.
[Patron Announcements]
This episode, we welcome Anna of Mosella to our Patreon! They join our producer-level patrons: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Kyle, the H2HOE, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, and Roxas.
This weekend, our patrons will receive the exclusive first episode of “The Quiz of Surprise” with Rob and Piotr. In “The Quiz of Surprise”, guests of the show go head-to-head in trivia about the content we literally just discussed. Learn more about becoming a patron of the show at patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.
[Episode Details]
As for this episode, Rob, TheUndeadGamr, and Piotr from Witcher School call in for a discussion of Netflix’s anime spin-off film, Nightmare of the Wolf. Join us as we finally move past the wall of foreshadowing and into the final act of the film to discuss the depiction of The Trial of the Grasses in both the film as well as at Witcher School LARP in Poland, Tetra’s Mean Girls moment, the consequences of mutagenic alchemy, the fall of Kaer Morhen and the completion of Vesemir’s arc from a carefree and detached witcher to acceptance of responsibility and his destiny.
This episode’s cover art comes from the 1895 book, The Most Delectable History of Reynard the Fox compiled by Joseph Jacobs and illustrated by W. Frank Calderon. In this illustration, Reynard the Fox kicks dirt and sand up into Isegrim the Wolf’s eyes… which I found to be perfect for the climactic scenes that we discuss in this episode.
In lieu of our “Tidings from Toussaint” news segment, don’t miss excerpts from an interview with Nightmare of the Wolf writer and producer Beau DeMayo and our listener call-in segment, “Dear Friend”.
Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s Nightmare of the Wolf (Part 2).
Discussion
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off we had met Geralt of Rivia’s father figure, Vesemir, and explored his early childhood and life as a witcher.
ALYSSA: Vesemir's sword lesson and his fencing lesson turns into another flashback about his own childhood in Kaer Morhen. Vesemir and the other recruits are put through tests and the Trial of the Grasses, most die at the hands of monsters or while undergoing mutations. Vesemir comes across the laboratory and meets Reidrich, a mage, who tells them about the hybrid monsters that mages have been creating for centuries to wipe out the elves and Old races and the witchers they made in response. Illyana sends Vesemir a letter, their old estate and everyone in it has died and they both need to move on. Vesemir at the end of the montage completes the Trial of the Grasses. So this is a surprisingly quick and dense scene for everything that happens. We flashback, and Vesemir and the other recruits are sleeping in the stables. And apparently, Vesemir is the only one who chose and volunteered to be there, which I think Rob you mentioned, whereas everybody else was either taken through the law of surprise or dumped into Kaer Morhen by their parents because they were just an extra mouth to feed. And Vesemir is here because he wants to become a witcher so he'll never be scared again, which is, you know, I think a really interesting thing for a child to say. And then we kind of get to the actual horror of the scene. Vesemir tries to convince one of the other boys, Tomas, it'll be okay, you know, we're here in Kaer Morhen now, we're going to be witchers, it's going to be fantastic. And after they go to sleep, the boys wake up in the Red Swamp. This is such a brutal scene, they are killed one by one by wraiths and monsters before Vesemir makes it out to the edge of the swamp. Holy crap, like all of that was just so brutal to watch. And the whole time I was wondering like, why? What is the point of this?
PIOTR: I agree with you. Pretty pointless to be honest, if their numbers are, like dwindling, then why would you, you know, just send those kids without any proper training, without proper equipment into a bog to just die. Because of course, the witchers have to be tested. And they have to be tested in real conditions. Right? So it would be a good idea to, for example, teach them alright, so there is this beast, this is how you kill it, now you have a sword, go and kill it. Right? No one will be helping you, if you die, you die. And that's cool, but just sending a kid, you know– just– alright, so there is, like, 100 wraiths waiting for you in that marsh aaand yeah, good luck, bye. So this is more like dumb luck that he was able to just run away when everybody behind him was dying. So, what is it was supposed to test really? That he would leave his friends behind? Or that he would, you know, get a grip on himself, be able to survive because he would you know, be brave enough, let's call it to just run away. I don't know. I think it was one of the scenes that I didn't really enjoy, to be honest. I think that they showed the sheer brutality, just for the heck of it. Just– Okay, so this is a brutal world you know, kids die a lot, and ah– If I were to be honest.
ROB: Yeah, it's a weird scene, right? It's a weird scene– I mean, I think just going back to when the kids are in the barn, right, and they're asleep in it. [Chuckles] It's just hilarious that Vesemir is like, what you didn't volunteer!?! And its like,— No bro! I didn't Volunteer! Do you know where we are!?!—
ALYSSA: He's like, okay... [Chuckles]
ROB: — Made me laugh. Uhm, also you start to sort of see a little bit of that fatherly nature, that Vesemir ends up having where he's, you know, really nice to Tomas and, you know, try to fill them a little bit of confidence. And you also get that when they then wake up in the swamp, and he's like, Nah, this is a test. We've all got to sit together. We've got to do this, you know, we can get through this together. Uhm– and obviously, it all goes to shit—
ALYSSA: Right.
ROB: — but like, yeah, the swamp in itself is just absolutely brutal. I mean, there's some really cool monster designs again in this scene, but it's just absolutely brutal. I also kind of can't wrap my head around it, because it just doesn't make sense. You're dwindling in numbers, you already know the Trial of the Grasses, like only three in 10 kids survive anyway,—
ALYSSA: Mhm.
ROB: — And you're going to do that to them as well? Like, you're gonna make those numbers even less? It doesn't seem like a smart move.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ROB: I can understand it in maybe trying to test their initiative and their thought process– or whatever and you know, trying to get through something like this, but it just seems very silly and brutal for the sake of it. Again, yeah, I don't know if that's just like, hey, The Witcher world is, like, really dark and brutal and horrible like– and– But yeah, just seems a bit silly. Moving forward into that laboratory scene with Reidrich and chatting. That was cool, getting to sort of meet one of the mages that creates witchers and talk a little bit about mutagenic alchemy as well and why and how they've been created.
ALYSSA: Mhm.
ROB: And even sort of referencing it to like– well you know, if we can mutate and create hybrids and monsters no doubt we can do it with humans and hence that's why you know, witchers became a thing, which was cool and I also feel a li– there's a little bit of foreshadowing there. Again, highlighting about monster crossbreeds through engineering with mages and alchemy, and yeah.
ALYSSA: You know, coming out of the Red swamp, Vesemir– you know, is stuck in the infirmary and like, has this moment where he kind of like, looks up and like realizes that everybody is dead, save for, you know, one boy on his left, one boy on his right. And then he leaves and he actually takes Tomas' medallion from the tree and then just huddles in the hallway sobbing over it.—
PIOTR: Yes.
ALYSSA: — And like, the horror that he must feel as someone who has fatherly instincts and comforted Tomas in the barn in the swamp, and then just to know that, like, he has all this emotion, and he had so much hope for being in a better place after he left the estate. And I'm sure he feels very guilty about the whole experience too. And being one of the few to survive
ROB: Probably the first time we see him maybe regret his confidence—
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ROB: — you know, 'cause he just breaks down, but he also sort of takes himself away to break down, you know, maybe he's now questioning himself a little bit.
PIOTR: Yeah, that could be a reason why he became you know, someone who detaches himself from other people, because he sees now that when he gets attached, people die, he can do nothing about it,—
ALYSSA: Mhm.
PIOTR: — so maybe the best idea is to just, you know, be this selfish person who has no one because if you don't have anyone, you will not cry when they die. So–
ALYSSA: As we move on to the laboratory, he meets Reidrich. And the mages have been experimenting with these hybrids, and he sees like– something that I think looks like a frog splayed out and Reidrich because like, yeah, there's like three species in here, at least, which is really cool but we learned a little bit more about mutagenic alchemy, someone engineered hybrids to take out the elves and the Old races. However, similarly to the witchers, most crossbreeds die instantly.
ROB: Yeah, it's not perfect.
PIOTR: You can also see that mages are behind every bad thing in this world, because– so they created monsters to kill elves. Then they see– okay, so now the monsters are the problem when they eradicated the elves, so maybe now we have to create something different to kill the monsters. And then they want to kill the witchers because the witchers became the monster, and so on and so on. And that there is no one who would be like, No– wait a minute. There is something with the mages going on.
ROB: I mean I think the mages clearly got like, a really good PR guy, there's just like, guys, I know what happened last time, but we got a plan, we got another plan. And I was like mmm– Okay, Nah, they seem like they know what's going on now, it's fine– we'll leave 'em to it– we'll leave ‘em to it.
ALYSSA: What a– what a vicious, vicious cycle that they're finding themselves in. Deglan eventually finds Reidrich just like– spilling all these secrets to the small childs and Reidrich is like, I don't really see a problem with telling him all of this stuff. Deglan's like, no leave Vesemir, and Vesemir is still very upset about what happened in the Red Swamp. He threatens Deglan and Deglan's just like, what? What are you going to do to me? The Trial of the Grasses and recruiting witchers really is a numbers game because not everyone's going to get through training and not everyone's going to get through the mutations. At this point, we actually see a montage of the Trial of the Grasses and it's beautifully you know, overlayed with voice-over from Illyana. Illyana tells him that his father's dead. Illyana had been adopted by a noble family and told Vesemir, I'm moving on, I hope you're having fun as a witcher. This is, like, really heartbreaking. It kind of plays with Vesemir's motivations and perspective. Does he regret coming? Can he even regret coming if he has nowhere to go back to?
ROB: I thought that scene, in particular, was really interesting, obviously got the juxtaposition of the letter wishing Vesemir a good and happy life whilst he's going through the torture of the Trial. One phrase I think really stuck with me from that letter. She's like, find your rebirth, and to a degree, Vesemir does after surviving the trials he's– you know, reborn into this new body and this new life because he's now a witcher. So I just thought that was, like, really interesting, to be honest.
PIOTR: I agree. And to what I just wanted to add is that I really, really liked the depiction of the Trail of the Grasses, it was really well done. The whole thing that you know, excruciating pain, the body changing, and so on and so on. Really well done. And yeah, juxtaposed with a letter from Illyana, it really gave it a special personal touch that Vesemir is leaving his life behind finally, but did he? Oh, we'll see in a while.
ALYSSA: Just out of curiosity, as we're kind of talking about the Trial of the Grasses. Is that something that is explored during witcher school or is that something that you're just like? Ah, you went through it already.
PIOTR: I knew you'd ask it right now but—
ALYSSA: That's the whole reason why you're on.
PIOTR: — I'm flustered, to be honest– No but seriously, I cannot say much to be honest, because trial of grasses is a part of the game and when you come as a new player, one of the ending scenes of the episode because Witcher School is an episodic club. So when the new player in the end of the episode you will undergo Trial of Grasses or not because there are some choices as well but mostly you will go– undergo the Trial of Grasses and I cannot say how it is done, because I don't spoil anything and most of our players tell us that it is one of the most exciting and fully immersive experiences. To many of them it's like you know the thing that really highlighted the whole thing that put the dot on the I and this was so awesome!—
ALYSSA: Yeah.
PIOTR: — In fact, many of them who for example, return to us, to uh– to some separate season, and start with a new character, many of them decide not to undergo the trial of the grasses because they're like, Okay, the first one is awesome and I don't want to dilute the experience and do it again because you know, it may not be as fun as the first one. Of course, we do this mostly to play on the senses of a player, because what I can tell is that the whole experience is done when you are blindfolded.
ALYSSA: Wow.
PIOTR: This is what I can tell because yeah, this is not a big spoiler. And when you reemerge if you survive, of course, you become someone different. No, but to be honest, I am not a very you know, objective person right now but I believe it is awesome and really cool. The person who designed it because it wasn't me, it was one of our previous coworkers who's not working with us anymore. But she has done a marvelous job with it and her ideas like– it's really awesome.
ALYSSA: Imagine if you're one of those 7 out of 10, who just kicks it in the middle. It's like, Oops, fun for the rest of the weekend bye.
PIOTR: This is why it's done in the end of the episode. So if you die, you can just go to your room and you know, there'll be like an hour of the game left. So– it will be fine.
ALYSSA: Oh, that's so sobering, oh man, I was making a joke. But if you actually do that, I think also kind of adds to the lore of the universe and all of that. In the next scene, we transition out of the Trial of the Grasses montage into Vesemir just living the life of a witcher. He hunts monsters and is showered in coin as payment. In a tavern, Vesemir tells two women stories of his adventures. An eavesdropping knight starts an argument with him and the other witchers and threatens them, starting a brawl. So, this is a really interesting and fun little scene, Vesemir just standing there with the goblet as coin rained down on him. And interspersed with that is him fighting what it seems to be a werewolf along the rooftops. And you get this really beautiful shot of like the two of them jumping from rooftop to rooftop with a full red moon. Yeah, and then we get into this small conflict, which turns into a bit of a big deal. And is that little pebble that starts the avalanche.
ROB: Yeah, I liked that little montage. I just thought it was really, really cool. And just seeing Vesemir’s smug little face when he's like fanning himself with those contracts and the coin is just showering down. But the whole, like, montage kind of just reminded me of Triss' line from the Betrayer Moon episode in Season One, where it's like is that all life is to monsters and coin? And for Vesemir– Yeah, it absolutely was as all it is and– and he's proven that all the way through this film up to this point anyway, that yeah, that's all his life is. That's great for him.
PIOTR: Yeah, I believe that then we see more of Luka, the other witcher, who I have to say I really liked the whole flamboyant thing he had going on. And the only shame is that he was a bit– cut a bit short, how he behaved and so on, I hoped that he would have you know, a cat's medallion dangling on his neck for some reason, I don't know maybe some you know, exchange students from the Cat School. As you can see, from my mug—
ALYSSA: Awww.
PIOTR: — I'm gonna be biased as a cast for the school. But yeah, I liked the character, that he was different from Vesemir, that witchers were not created from the same mold. And the whole argument of the knight, the whole exchange, it was so funny, and it also showed very clearly how much overpowered witchers are compared to human beings. They destroy the knight, right? It happens really quickly. And yeah.
ALYSSA: It's like a smash cut to like oops, we did a thing. In the next scene, Luka and Vesemir are jailed for killing the knight, which pfft well– Tetra tries to convince the king to execute them both but Lady Zerbst counters. She secretly visits Vesemir in jail revealing herself as Vesemir's childhood love, Illyana. So this is very sweet even if you could see it come from a mile away. Vesemir comes into this room he sees a honey cake and Illyana just kind of materializes out of the corner and she's like, “haha, it's me”, again a direct quote. Lady Zerbst slash Illyana is, you know, old, she's got white hair, she's like 70, she looks stunning and Vesemir looks like he's maybe 35. And she really has, like, lived a full life in Vesemir's absence. So I think again, this might be one of those moments where he feels a little bit of regret for not having the opportunity to grow old with her but she seems to be doing quite fine as well.
ROB: Yeah, it's a very sweet scene and quite sad as well in some aspects, because you know, it's possibly a life that Vesemir could have had with her but you know, I'm not sure that would have been the case either way, to be honest, but yeah, it's a very nice scene. You know Illyana is very smart you know, she's trying to very much appease both sides and try and do things correctly as well where Tetra clearly doesn't want to, she's absolutely okay with having them be, without a trial, just put to death. She clearly doesn't want any sort of challenge, whatever it is that she needs to do to achieve her means which again– she shows this again, nice set up what continues to transpire with the witchers and Tetra.
PIOTR: It is all about foreshadowing, the whole thing.
ROB: Yeah.
PIOTR: And the BATH scene, of course, foreshadowing and the bath scene, that's the two things that are very important.
ROB: It's what the people want.
ALYSSA: The last thing that Illyana tells us is that the king is willing to provide amnesty to him and Luka, as long as Vesemir agrees to kill the monster in the woods with a chaperone who turns out to be Lady Gilcrest. And this can only go well, obviously. In the next scene, Vesemir and Tetra pursue the monster in the forests. It's an interesting scene just because the two of them clearly don't really get along or just don't really want to get along on the path Vesemir is just kind of like chittering about like, and then I did this and then I did that, Tetra is just like having none of it, she really doesn't give a shit. And she has already committed herself to years upon years of hatred that Vesemir chatting to her for days and days is just annoying, quite frankly. One of the other things that we hear along this is that Vesemir says, "Isn't fire magic forbidden by upstanding mages?", which is something that we see in the books, we see in Season One, as well as Season Two of Netflix's The Witcher. And then at this point, we hear a little bit about why Tetra might be opposed to witchers. She tells a story about a sorceress who was killed because a witcher fooled the king for gold. Turns out that the witcher paid the cook to poison the king and then magically cured the king by killing a sorceress, and the witcher got away with it. Vesemir makes a joke “ha, that's a good scam I wish I thought of it”, and Tetra is unamused. Unfortunately.
ROB: Yeah, it definitely goes to show more of her mentality and her hatred for witchers and very much seeing them as these scammers and corrupt beings of chaos and Vesemir sort of nonchalantly being like, yeah, I wish I did all of that. He's very much thinking, Well, you know, we're not all the same, like some of us do do the job. But you know, I don't think that's ever going to be an argument that you're gonna have or win with Tetra, and I think we do also see that anyway, as the film goes on. It's just very interesting just to have the two of them just open up more about where they're from basically even more so that they end up having to work together and very closely together. And you know, they do kind of save each other's bacons a little bit.
PIOTR: Yeah, especially that if you do not know how the things are going to turn out. If– nowaday we should already know how the things will turn out but if you don't, then you can think that this is this whole played out thing that we start as opponents but now we may you know, begrudgingly respect each other and then maybe we will even like each other in the end. So they really nicely played on this motif, that you can see them getting to know each other and maybe even understanding each other, but then we learn that the whole thing was a ploy on the cross paths. So this was really nicely done I think.
ALYSSA: As we kind of move out of the night and into the day– Vesemir and Tetra continue through the forest they come across an illusion and Tetra tastes that and breaks it, so she notes that when she was in school sometimes they would craft illusions and eat them in order to just like make themselves feel full– illusions always left a bitter aftertaste so she eats like a pine needle or something and then dispels the illusion and she nearly falls into a pit in the process and Vesemir saves her and it– by the end you're just like, ah...but they mentioned that the power needed to maintain such an illusion, that could definitely bewitch a leshen, the one that we had seen in the beginning that also spoke the same language of Ellyon that Kitsu speaks. Once they dispel the illusion they come across ruins, Kitsu and her pet basilisk are waiting for them. And so there's this gorgeous fight scene that happens between Kitsu, the basilisk, Tetra, and Vesemir and they're using their magic, between the two of them they eventually kill the basilisk. Kitsu sobs over its remains and then just brings an avalanche down in her grief and then she turns into a fox and then just runs off into the mountain.
PIOTR: Very anime again. Literally some of the ways in which it is shown that Vesemir uses signs– the witcher signs, it reminded me of, maybe not of Dragon Ball, but at least of Street Fighter you know, Ryu and Ken– Hadouken and so on. So again, very consistent, and I liked it the only thing that I do believe was a bit on the nose is that you know, the elven girl that is changing into a fox and her name is Kitsu, many of you probably realize that the Aguaras of the race of the shapeshifters that probably Kitsu was the first of,—
ALYSSA: Yeah.
PIOTR: — they're based on Kitsune from the Japanese folklore so naming her Kitsu was like ehh–
ROB: Very on the nose.
PIOTR: — but maybe it's just me you know,—
ALYSSA: Yes.
PIOTR: — just– it's fine like you know– sometimes simple things are okay, but this has bothered me just a bit, but the whole thing– the whole idea was really nicely done and yeah, I like it.
ROB: Yeah, I agree, like, fantastic fight scene, really cool. As we said the start, like, just really throwing themselves into this anime style, unapologetically, just really, really cool. And again, another interesting very stylized rendition of a basilisk. I didn't personally like it. I thought it was a bit weird, but again, balls to the wall into this style, like yeah, just really cool.
ALYSSA: On the note of the Aguara, I don't know too much about them, but I know on the last episode of the podcast or the last two episodes of the podcast when Sarah A. from the UK was on, she was talking about how Season of Storms has aguaras in it, which she really enjoys, as well as a comic called Fox Children that is set in The Witcher universe. I don't know too much about them, but it's interesting to see the lore and the mythology continue into Nightmare of the Wolf. When we get to the end of this fight, and they kill the basilisk, Kitsu runs off. Vesemir mentions, like, her powers of illusion are unnatural, eventually, they go back and forth and Tetra says Kitsu's an elf and Vesemir says but why does she smell like a mahr, which was the monster that he encountered in the beginning in his childhood.
ROB: It's all coming together y'all. It's all coming together.
ALYSSA: I know! Between, like, Tetra and Vesemir though, they keep eating things and sniffing things. It's like just don't ingest this stuff. Stop eating everything. They're like children.
ROB: Vesemir what did you pick up? Put it down! Don't put it in your mouth!
ALYSSA: Don't put it in your nose. Uhh, man. So in the next scene, Vesemir and Tetra follow Kitsu's trail to an abandoned elven school, they find Filavandrel bound and discover she's been kidnapping and experimenting on elven girls with mutagenic alchemy in order to turn them into what she's become. While Vesemir tells Lady Zerbst the truth about what they found, Tetra destroys the Elven school and tells Kitsu that Vesemir did it and uses the discovery of mutagenic alchemy to have Luka executed. The fallout of their battle with Kitsu and the basilisk is so destructive for everybody. Elves used to send their kids to school in high summer and it was eventually used as a garrison by humans during the last cleansing. The great cleansing is something that we hear about in episode two, Four Marks from Season One, we hear about it in The Edge of the World, the short story, as well as throughout the books. It's a place that I think has a lot of history and a lot of bad blood, which is just kind of exasperated when they walk in and they find a mountain of Elven bodies. So this is when they find out about Kitsu's plan and this is when the idea of mutagenic alchemy is proposed by Tetra. Someone makes the assumption that you know, if there are more monsters, there's more jobs and there's more coin and they discover one girl who's alive. Filavandrel picks her up and takes her to be raised as an elf with the reassurance that if something happens to her if she starts to display any sort of threat, that Filavandrel will be the one to take care of it. And Tetra just thinks that Vesemir and Filavandrel are making a mistake.
ROB: It's just so sad. The story of the Aen Seidhe, the elves in The Witcher universe, is just so sad in so many ways. And once again, we're shown this dark and twisted history and relationship with some of the original races of the world. From The Edge of the World story and the Netflix version of that tale, Filavandrel once again has got such a weight on his shoulders, like bearing the absolute burden of his people as best he can to the point where he you know, he's taking in this mutant girl to be like, well, she– you know, she's mostly elf so she's our responsibility. Tetra trying to kill her and be like you've already won the war. What else are you going to try and take away? Like, leave us to our depressing little, you know, huts to just do what we can to live. It's just so sad. But this whole scene, everything starts to really come together Tetra playing her cards with Kitsu and getting her on side. It's just like, oh, man, yeah, it's just not good.
PIOTR: It really shows that the lore is there, we have the whole story of elves. And as Rob said, Filavandrel being the last, let's call him the leader of his people who– he really knows that the end is near. So he will try to do anything to stall, the inevitable thing going to happen, which is the erasure of the elven race. Also, I liked it that he said he will, you know, take care of it. Like this is our business right now, the responsibility is mine. And this is something that may influence the Vesemir a bit because you know, Vesemir to that point was this guy who didn't really do responsibility. Now he says the guy saying things like, okay, there may be some fallout of this whole situation, but I will take care of it and this is my thing to do. And remind me because I'm not sure if that was the point at which Vesemir was like, okay, something shady is going around here, because you know, the beast, the mutagens– Uhm yeah, so something is really fishy about the whole situation.
ROB: 'Cause as soon as mutagenic alchemy is brought up as well, they all look at Vesemir as like, wait a minute, the only people that do like mutagenic alchemy are the mages that make witchers.
ALYSSA: Mhm.
ROB: So yeah, I think it also clicks for– for everyone there.
ALYSSA: You know, it clicks for the audience as well or it's at least starting to, if you haven't gotten it already, they're going to be very explicit in the next few scenes. About like—
PIOTR: Right, right.
ALYSSA: — what is going on and why? And at this point, you know, Tetra goes through her Regina George moment, you know just the scene where Regina has been betrayed and then she goes and puts her own face, and picture, and name in the burn book and pretends that, like, she's a victim and watches the school burn. It's pretty darn close to what Tetra does here right?—
ROB: Yeah.
ALYSSA: — Like Vesemir leaves immediately to tell Lady Zerbst what's been going on. In the meantime, Tetra brings down an avalanche onto the ruins and I think she has her own, like, Sailor Moon anime moment here to where her eyes go all blue and she, like, tears everything down. And yeah, Vesemir tells Zerbst about what they found. She tells him to flee to Kaer Morhen right-the-heck-now. And yeah, when Kitsu comes back and discovers that her entire lab and everything has been destroyed, Tetra's just like “I saw the whole thing happen and it was Vesemir”. And then she goes to the council and she's like the witchers are the cause of all of this and they execute Luka, which is terrible because we're watching Illyana beg and then the sword swings and you see the pool of blood fill the throne room and it's– Oh God, it's– I mean it's terrible. The whole thing is so terrible.
ROB: Yeah, 100%. But again, it was clearly the perfect situation for Tetra to really finally get what she needs and what she wants. And also one thing I thought was, like, really interesting when Lady Illyana was, like, begging and like, after unfortunately Luka gets beheaded. She's like, by the way, anyone know where Lady Gilcrest is? Like where– where she at? Not suspicious? No? Okay cool...
ALYSSA: Yeah.
PIOTR: Right.
ALYSSA: I think– I think it's healthy to have, like, some suspicion of Tetra throughout the whole film.
PIOTR: Yeah, but this is the point when everything just fits right into the place and now we are nearing the endgame of the whole thing.
ALYSSA: We finally have no more foreshadowing, only reward from here on out.
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we finish the film, we’re going to jump to a short break and our new listener call-in segment, “Dear Friend”. When we come back, Rob, Piotr, and I will continue our discussion of Nightmare of the Wolf.
Excerpts from an Interview with Beau DeMayo
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Things are pretty quiet in the Witcher news cycle this fortnight, so lieu of a “Tidings from Toussaint” segment, I wanted to share some insights from Nightmare of the Wolf writer and producer Beau DeMayo. Back in August 2021, he did an Instagram Live with VX Central (Vortex Central) discussing his work on The Witcher television series and Nightmare of the Wolf. Here are some of the insights I thought were most interesting about the anime film.
Beau DeMayo said, “I had just switched agents. They knew I was a Witcher fan. I saw Lauren had been working on the pilot and I asked my agent. And so I begged them for a meeting. We had a last minute meeting—I think she was scouting in Poland—and we Skyped and had a great conversation about the Witcher being a story about orphans and found family. Two days later, I met with Netflix and that next Monday, they asked me if I wanted to come on. I was writing the anime and my episode of ‘The Witcher’ at the same time. I think it took 3 weeks to write Episode 3 from outline to script.
“My intention with Nightmare of the Wolf was to have it feel like a question mark on [the Witcher 3] map. It starts out like a very small quest for Vesemir […] but then suddenly you’re taking a boat to a medieval lighthouse for something that needs to be exorcised. I structured the movie to have that same kind of a sidequest feel. […] A lot of it came from my love of anime. Those high-level octane anime that are also about something. Gundam is about big robots, but it’s also a socio-political drama about war. […] One of the most pivotal: Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. It’s a flashback origin story that reimagines [everything you’ve learned up to that point]. […] Lauren came to me and said, ‘We want to do an animated movie. I need someone to take this and run with it and [for it] to be their little baby.’ One of the areas that fascinated both of us was the massacre and sacking at Kaer Morhen.
“It’s in the opening song. I tell people to go back and listen to the lullaby. It’s about how prejudice begets prejudice and violence begets violence. Tetra stirs violence against witchers and Deglan does what he needs to do. Around and around it goes and no one is acknowledging their part in that wheel. That’s, for me, the theme. […] There’s something nice to a villain with a legitimate point of view. There’s one line Tetra has in the film. She says, ‘The witchers destroyed your den.” There’s something scary about a villain who can use the truth to justify genocide. […] It’s a little cult-y. You get [Witcher recruits] as kids and indoctrinate them. There will be some fans who take issue with that interpretation. I look toward the Spartans—that’s what the Red Swamp sequence was meant to show. There’s a cruelty to it. As an adopted orphan myself, there’s a darkness to the idea of kidnapping children. Not capturing the fact that they’re exploiting those kids would be doing a disservice. And Tetra says, ‘I know you didn’t ask for this, you were just a boy.’ […] If you think about all the kids that die in the Red Swamp that become ghouls and ghosts, there’s something about Tetra taking the creatures in that swamp—most of whom are dead recruits—and setting them back against the witchers.
“I made the decision to not use Geralt, I didn’t want to tie up continuity. But the best way to understand someone is to meet their parents. Let’s tell a cool origin story about the most unlikely father to Geralt and make every decision something opposite to what Geralt would do. [We asked] who would raise Geralt? There’s very little we learn about Vesemir in the books. And the thing I grasped onto was, when he was with Ciri, there was a mischievous character to him. He feels like the uncle who would say, ‘Here’s an Oreo before dinner, don’t tell Geralt.’ This came up a lot in discussions throughout production, but if Geralt grunts at everything, Vesemir winks at everything.”
Thanks to VX Central for hosting! Unfortunately, the interview isn’t available on their profile, but my notes and transcript from the full interview—which includes commentary on Beau DeMayo’s career, screenwriting advice, and The Witcher Season 1—will be accessible to patrons in this episode’s Patreon post. Let us know what you thought of these insights and Nightmare of the Wolf in the Hanza Discord!
“Dear Friend…”: Listener Call-In Segment
[Music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hi everyone! Welcome to our listener call-in segment, “Dear Friend…”. Keep on listening as members of our international hanza share their thoughts on what we’re discussing in this episode:
CHRISTIAAN: Hello, hello! This is Christiaan from South Africa and Canada. An overall comment was the fact that they really introduce the politics of the world of the Witcher really, really well, I think. They’re a hot topic of discussion. Politics influence everything and everybody has a rubber arm or golden tongue.
LARS: Hey, it's Lars from Berlin. I love about Nightmare of the Wolf that it really dives deep into the Witcher lore. See King Dagread of Kaedwen, for example. In Andrzej Sapkowski's Dynastic Descriptions he is confirmed to be one of Ciri's ancestors, as a princess of Kaedwen had married King Corbett of Cintra a few generations before Ciri was born. Ciri's great grandfather, King Dagorad of Cintra, was even named after King Dagread of Kaedwen from Nightmare of the Wolf.
MICHELLE: Hi, I’m Michelle, I live in Mexico. My only complaint about Nightmare of the Wolf was that it wasn’t longer. [Laughs] I would have liked to have seen it as a series and potentially have some of the things that could have been developed a little bit more explained over a longer period of time. But other than that, I’d just really like to live in this animated universe.
FRANZI: Hello everyone, it's Franzi from Germany. The great thing about Nightmare of the Wolf is that you find some tiny, little details even after your second or third rewatch. When Tetra and Vesemir are going to the elven ruins, Tetra talks about using magical illusions at the Academy of Aretuza to make food tastier. This could be a reference to a conversation Geralt and Philippa Eilhart had during the mage's conclave at Thanedd Island in the book "Time of Contempt". There Philippa creates food with the help of some magic.
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Thanks to Christiaan, Lars, Michelle, and Franzi for sending in their thoughts on Nightmare of the Wolf! Hear your voice in a future “Dear Friend…” segment by emailing greetings@breakfastinbeauclair.com or DMing the podcast on social for more information.
[Music by MojoFilter Media]
Discussion
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Vesemir and Tetra’s search for Kitsu had gone awry, leaving Vesemir to confront Deglan while Tetra made an unexpected ally.
ALYSSA: You know, in the next scene, Vesemir confronts Deglan about the hybrids, he had finally gotten suspicious of everything that Deglan and Reidrich had been doing. But Lady Zerbst then arrives at the keep unannounced to warn them of Tetra's arrival. This whole thing is very intense, just because we think the big confrontation is going to come between Vesemir and Deglan, and then that gets cut short. Vesemir sees all the hybrids and is like, you know, dude what the fuck! And Deglan says monsters were going extinct. I had to protect our way of life. And apparently, Kitsu was part of these experiments. They thought they killed Ketsu but he says she must have made an illusion and escaped. Deglan kind of puts the final nail in his own coffin by saying the only thing keeping men from hunting us are the creatures we keep away. That whole thing is just, like, incredibly intense and because it's like a father–son, mentor–mentee relationship. There's even that greater sense of betrayal and Vesemir's side and righteousness on Deglan's, I would say.
PIOTR: Yeah, I think that in a real cool way, the whole thing shows us that in The Witcher universe, I can't say that there are no good guys, but there are people who even if we consider them good, they make mistakes and they have their more shady business going on. Up to this point where like, nah, this Gilcrest lady, she's a meanie, she's been wrong, she's putting everyone to the same bag, just every witcher to her is bad, and even Vesemir, who we can see now there's some saving grace to him as well. So when Deglan admits to his fault, and he admits that yes, we created monsters, we can see that. So Lady Gilcrest was right. And she has a point. And maybe she got a bit, you know, overzealous with the whole thing, how to rectify the whole situation, but we can see that she has a point. And in fact, witchers are a threat to humanity as well, even though they're supposed to be the protectors of the human race. So it's a very nice scene in which you can see that there are all shades of gray in The Witcher universe and there was no black and white really.
ROB: Yeah. And– and also, you know, like it's one of those things that everyone's the hero of their own story. A lot of The Witcher especially plays into that sometimes, you know, 'cause there's always something I find in the villains or the heroes or whatever, whether it is you agree or disagree with them though there's always something or part of their story that you like, well, I can understand why you feel that way and I can sympathize with you which I think makes the villains, especially in this universe very, very interesting,—
PIOTR: Yeah.
ROB: — and you get that with Tetra, completely. You know, love her or hate her, like you– you understand why, and you sympathize to a degree.
PIOTR: And with Deglan as well.
ROB: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
PIOTR: You can also see his point, right. I mean, I do this because I will save our whole way of life, so–
ALYSSA: You know, as we said, that confrontation between the two of them, just because they have very different values, like Deglan will protect the witchers even over anything else. And Vesemir, even though he obviously is concerned about the well–being of his brothers and his caste, will not sacrifice everything else in order to do that. So there's just that inherent battle of value when it comes to the two of them. As we said that gets cut short Lady Zerbst shows up to let the witches know that Gilcrest is now outside with a mob of humans and mages. So apparently the mob heard about the crossbreeds, but are even angrier about the witchers protecting elves.
ROB: Make it make sense.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I think it's one of those things that like, you can't really wrap your head around the idea of like, crossbreeds or you can't really wrap your head around the idea of like scientific divine intervention, but–
ROB: But I've seen an elf before.
ALYSSA: Yeah, and I know I don't like them.
ROB: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Xenophobia though.
ROB: The old–fashioned way. God damn it.
ALYSSA: It's just like ugh, so human, ah. This is a threat. And then we actually get an understanding of the stakes. Reidrich says if we die– if the mages die, there can be no more witchers. Suddenly, if you're unfamiliar with the lore, the stakes are raised immensely. Not only was Deglan protecting their way of life, he was also protecting their future with Reidrich. Zerbst decides to hide in the cellars of the children, so she'll protect the few recruits that they have left while the rest of the witchers fight. Deglan leaves, Reidrich leaves, which just leaves Vesemir and Illyana on this balcony right before this fight. They finally have their one romantic moment, they talk about the impending battle and they go to kiss and Illyana is like, oh, but I'm 70, and Vesemir is like, I am too, and then they, like, have this moonlight kiss. And it's just like oh, but they're both so hot. And then we do like a hard cut to the battle. The threat is established, the stakes are established, as is the romance that is also at stake
ROB: Yeah, it's really sweet. You know, people are always like oh yeah, Yen and Geralt. Nah–Nah– it's all about Vesemir and Illyana, let's go.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I think the relationship throughout the film. In the sacking of Kaer Morhen, Tetra with the help of peasants, human mages, and Kitsu and her monsters leads a full attack against the witchers in Kaer Morhen ending in the fall of the witchers and the keep. Deglan doesn't back down, Kitsu is standing in the red swamp and she opens up portals that come out on the other side of Kaer Morhen, and they just unleash monsters into the keep.
PIOTR: What you said earlier on about the people you know, “I don't know about mages and monsters but they do know about elves and I don't like them”. Because it was really stuck to me, that at some point of the battle, the monsters start appearing right? They're summoned by the mages and through the portals. And you can see the mob mentality like you know, alright, so they're monsters above us, they joined the fight, something fishy is going on. But yeah, orders are orders, so let's keep on, you know, fighting the witchers, who we have a clear goal. We can just, you know, get on with doing that. And I'm not sure if I like the idea that there were also monsters during the– you know, destruction of Kaer Morhen, because it's a pinch– invalidates the whole idea that it was common folk who killed the witchers. And of course, the source material, we have the idea that there were mages behind it, that of course, they created the Monstrum propaganda and so on. Not going to you know, say any spoilers but as we know, fate of Geralt, in the books. There is a very poignant thing about– that Kaer Morhen was destroyed in such a way in the books. And here, we don't have it, you have this all–around battle with monsters. And here, it really turns to Dragon Ball at some points when you know, where Vesemir's flying and pushing with aard and just flying away. Really cool. Really nicely done. But to me, I think it was, on the one hand, it was a really cool scene and a very epic scene, on the other hand, this was the point at which I was like, do they really understand the source material and how the whole thing should develop? But it's me, right? Many people will probably like it and don't really pay mind to it. So that's fine.
ALYSSA: I have heard that critique as well from people within the community that like it makes for really good television, of course, like—
PIOTR: Right.
ALYSSA: — having the monsters and aerial fights and like, the thing that really killed me was watching someone be decapitated, and their entire spine comes out and it's like–[gags]. Yeah, mages may have incited some of the propaganda. But it really was just the overwhelming surge of common folk and peasants that really brought about the fall of Kaer Morhen. It's one of those things where I feel like I don't mind it in the context of the movie, it does obviously, though, adjust some of the heavier themes and quote and unquote realities of what the history was with the fall of Kaer Morhen.
ROB: I totally agree that it yeah, kind of takes the source material and very much is a bit blasé at that point with it. Because you're right, there's something so poignant about just the group of peasants being able to– as well as being orchestrated by mages, being able to just ransack this witcher keep and slaughter. Having that scene played out in an anime, I don't think would have had the same effect or impact, because everything is so overblown and so done– done, which is one of the charms of that style. I think having those monsters was probably necessary, even though it was very much gung ho with the lore. And you know, it was done very well, was really cool, I think one of my outstanding moments of that whole scene was that massive witcher group aard, which was just so cool,—
PIOTR: Right.
ROB: — yeah, so I agree. It's certainly taking a few liberties with the lore there. But I think for the genre that the film was, it worked, and it was necessary, I think.
PIOTR: Yeah, it totally fits the story. But!
ROB: Yeah, yeah.
PIOTR: But this is, I think, the only aspect of this story of The Nightmare of the Wolf when I was like, ahh– it was different in the books because the whole thing I really liked and so I have nothing to say against it. It fits but yeah.
ALYSSA: Tetra openly admits to lying to Kitsu which is…nuts. She's like, Yeah, Oops, my bad. And this is the scene, Rob, that you're talking about where the witchers use their signs together and then fight the onslaught of monsters. Tetra here also says a quote that's taken directly from the English translation of the books, from Blood of Elves specifically. It either ends or the whole quote is "Witchers must be wiped from this earth and all traces wiped with salt and saltpeter", which was a cool thing to you know lift and bring. Deglan and Vesemir go to stop Tetra from attacking the mages and Deglan stands there and watches as his witchers are slaughtered one by one. Vesemir is taken into the sky, this is the aerial fight, and fights monsters on the way down. All of this is again like Super Anime 9000 and it looks fantastic again, like in the context of the medium, it looks great, even if I did, you know, sit there behind my hands and just squeamishly watch this whole thing.
ROB: There were some very cool moments that were in there. It was really nice to see– Sven his name, the witcher with one arm.
ALYSSA: Yeah, the one who gets beheaded with his spine. Yep, that one.
ROB: It was really cool to see– you know, him crossing signs and being disabled for lack of a better term, which was just really, really cool. And him just kicking ass as well, which was cool. But yeah, there's some really cool moments in there– really cool animation. Yeah.
PIOTR: Right, I agree. And the only thing I was thinking during the scene, and please tell me if there was an explanation but I think there wasn't any, why the mages from the Kaer Morhen, you know, didn’t join the fight, didn't really do anything during the fight? I mean– were they were, like, trying to meditate or something? You know, maybe they were just alchemists,—
ALYSSA: Yeah.
PIOTR: — maybe they don't really know any offensive spells and so on. But as far as I know, from Witcher lore, every mage knows something how to fight, they learn some combat spells. So to me, it was like, waste of potential, especially if you want to have an epic fight. Then you know, add some more mages into it and then you have– it would be awesome! But yeah, so this was the thing I was like, a bit of lack of logic in it. And I know that you know, they had to do it in that way because some things have to happen and having you know, overpowered mages on your side would not help the whole– the whole thing to happen, so.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I think like If we learned anything from the books, and from season one of the Netflix show, it's like, oops, all mages, like that's how you get really awesome battle scenes for sure. I would agree though, probably for this, I would assume there's only one of two explanations, either one– they really are just alchemists and they wouldn't really do very well against monsters, witchers, and humans. Or you need them to survive and you can't even risk them being on the battlefield if you want to save the future of the witchers. So my guess would be either one of the two.
ROB: Yeah, I agree.
ALYSSA: So the battle enters the keep. And then at this point, we're taken down to the cellars where Zerbst is there with the children. There's a little boy that says that there's a hatch in the grain holds that leads up to the back patio and Zerbst tells the boys, go, run, get as far away from the keep as you possibly can, and so they do. Down in the laboratories, the attacking mages prepare to massacre the witchers' mages and they threaten to kill Lady Zerbst. This is horrifying. Like, they have all of the mages kneeling and they're really prepared to, like, execute each of them. Vesemir comes into the laboratory, but Kitsu intercepts immediately and puts him into a trance. So this whole thing is obviously incredibly surreal and there are three different mini–scenes within this illusion. The first is old Illyana and Vesemir kind of like on the banks of the river that they played on as children. They're playing in the snow, Illyana starts making a snow angel and suddenly it turns into gold and she sinks into it, which is very creepy and Vesemir is, like, going through the gold trying to get her out. Suddenly, he's in a bar and he's with Deglan, Sven, and Luka. They're kind of sitting around and drinking, Luka's head just slides off onto the table and it's rolling around and he's having a good time. And then all the witches drink tankards of blood as Vesemir sits there. He's then transported again to a lake house with Illyana. This was her dream, if you remember from the beginning of the film, she wanted to have a lake house. Illyana is painting his portrait and their son comes over, turns out they have another son, meanwhile, in the real world, the mages are about to kill Illyana. One of the things that the illusion Illyana says in order to get Vesemir to stay she just says you know, time is nothing. Conversely, in the previous scene, where they were sitting in the jail, the real Illyana had said to Vesemir, time is everything. So you are already seeing that small detail of like, there's something that's not right. Illyana offers some wine or he picks up one on his own and he smells it and recognizes that something is wrong. So we kind of assume that he either smells the illusion and the bitterness of it or he smells the scent of a mahr. Yeah, and he realizes Kitsu's behind it and then starts threatening her from inside the illusion. Vesemir breaks the illusion by pushing Kitsu aside, he kills both guards and slices Tetra across the face, and then they immediately go head to head. Between Vesemir's skills as a witcher and Tetra's magic, it makes for an incredible fight scene by the end. Tetra attacks him with arrows and he throws Kitsu aside. The fight scene goes on and by the end of it, Vesemir beheads Tetra and stabs Kitsu through the chest. But it turns out to all have been an illusion by Kitsu, and he had really beheaded Reidrich and he stabbed Illyana. When that illusion breaks, it's just so heartbreaking because you had spent the entire scene rooting for Vesemir. And you think that he had accomplished what he had tried to accomplish. But really, he brought about the end of the witchers and his love on his own.
PIOTR: And that is an– really nice plot is that you have this, you know, illusion, within an illusion, within an illusion, I like it. As you said, the fact that Vesemir was fighting so hard to protect his loved ones, protect the school, to protect well– everyone, in the end, to be the one who brings the destruction on the school, of course, not on his own will, but still. It was really sad and heartbreaking to see it because, at this point, you can also see the change inside Vesemir, we can see that he is taking the responsibility. He is now what Filavandrel is to his people, Vesemir is trying to emulate the same sentiment and he tries to do right by all the people who are close to them. But in the end, it turns out that there was a bigger game going on. And unfortunately, he lost it, right?
ROB: Yeah, and I think with these like, big, big illusions, it was already sort of mentioned when Vesemir initially confronted Deglan about these monster creations that they were doing. And it just shows that you know, Kitsu mutations with being part mahr are like– really, really ridiculously powerful, especially in that first scene where Deglan is doing the exorcism and we're sort of led to believe, again, that witchers have got like– a bit of a level head and they got some sort of slight immunity to mind effects and illusions, but Vesemir, as a witcher, falls so very easily into these– into two of them, and doesn't realize until it's too late that he's been completely tricked. And yes, absolutely heartbreaking. But again, yeah, shows how dangerous these mutations were and how dangerous Kitsu is. But again, everything just completely falls into place with Tetra.
ALYSSA: Uh... almost...
ROB: Yeah, almost. yeah, yeah, yeah– yeah.
ALYSSA: I think uh– almost, yeah. So at this point, we find out that Tetra is taking revenge against all witches for her mother, who it turns out was the sorceress in her fireside story. Tetra's mother's life in exchange for gold was all it was. And so Tetra apparently had watched, and even says to Vesemir, your senses are so sharp, he must have heard me in the closet and knew that I was there, and to witness your mother's murder as a child and to carry that throughout the rest of your life clearly comes to a head here. After she makes this big reveal Deglan kills her from behind. He'd made his way down to the laboratory, and he collapses against the doorway and just says, “All my boys– dead. They're your boys now. Turn them into witchers, make them something more.” And then he dies. Vesemir looks up and he sees Kitsu in the ceiling, and she's just there in her fox form and she just watches all of this take place, having really orchestrated the death of everybody in the room. Vesemir picks up Illyana, and Illyana says, just leave her, it's not Kitsu's fault that all of this happened the way that it did. And as they leave Kaer Morhen burns and falls.
ROB: You know, all of this leading up to the fall of Kaer Morhen, and Vesemir's experience, and now having the sort of fate of the witchers on his shoulders. Deglan saying you know, make them something more, I think really then starts to cement who we see Vesemir as, later on in the books, and the games, and everything like that. Even sparing Kitsu, obviously, Illyana says, you know, just spare her she's got nothing to do with it. But I think as well, he sees she's as much a victim of all of this as you know, everyone else that was as well. So again, I just think it's another one of those things that sort of clicks for Vesemir to make him become who again we see him be later on in his life in the books and everything.
ALYSSA: We don't hear about a lot of things in The Witcher universe. So to even get a little bit about the fall of Kaer Morhen, which was such a huge point in the lore and in the history of the continent, however, it played out and with whatever creative liberties were taken, is still such an interesting treat to get as viewers and lovers of the world.
ROB: It's almost, you could say, it's always good to get "something more".
ALYSSA: Ba dum tsss.And we have enough dad jokes for the episode.
ROB: I'm so sorry, everyone listening. I was surprised that Alyssa invited me back honestly.
ALYSSA: Well, luckily for everyone, we still have at least a little bit more and the bonus content to get to, so more ripe opportunity to make fools of ourselves for sure.
ROB: Subscribe to the Patreon!
ALYSSA: We close up the movie, Vesemir takes the dying Illyana to a lakeside, where she passes watching the sun rise over the lake. Vesemir finds the fleeing boys and tosses a sack of witcher medallions at their feet with the choice, one recruit picks up the medallion– Geralt. You know, Vesemir brings Illyana down to this lake, he sets her by a rock and uses the witcher sign, it would be igni, to make the lake melt. And as the sun comes up, yeah, she passes, and Vesemir sobs. It's one of the most private moments and the most vulnerable moments that we see of Vesemir in the entire film. I think it's one of the few times where his guard really comes down, this moment with Illyana.
PIOTR: It was a really nice scene because it was– ah– as you said, very private, it was not, you know, epic– as the things that we have just seen. It really nicely also shows us that witchers are humans, that the whole myth of them being you know, just mutants who have no feelings is just a myth. I think that maybe it's the last moment when Vesemir can really show his true self because from that point on, he will have to carry the burden of being the last senior witcher, someone who has to, you know, take care of the recruits that are left to him. I think that it has this really nice feeling to it, that something ends and something begins– Uh...Rob you're not– you don't have to quote the book– bad jokes. And the scene with the boys, yeah we have bald Geralt, how he gets the white mane of hair later on, anybody's guess? Of course, you know, Eskel, Lambert, Geralt, so the three that we know from the books and from the games, but there's a Remus, who as far as I remember, was in episode three of season one. He was the first witcher that came to Temeria to do the Striga. This was really cool that we have this a little bit of you know, nod to the first season of The Witcher series. So it's nice.
ROB: Yeah, that– the scene by the lake is just heartbreaking. Just absolutely heartbreaking. Animation is beautiful as well, that sort of like sunrise and everything and you know, seeing that witchers aren't emotionless mutants, you know, we see Vesemir cry.
ALYSSA: Mmm.
ROB: As something ends, something begins, and you know, Vesemir going off to find the young recruits– the adepts, giving them a choice, giving them a chance to be something more, to be something better, as he felt he was given by becoming a witcher. You know, it all comes about– sort of full circle almost, that thinking there's something more to life and you deserve something more in your life. And the young Geralt thing, I don't know if it's kind of like cringy or kind of cute, but—
ALYSSA: It's a little of both. It can be both.
ROB: — it was a nice– yeah, it's a little bit of both. It was a nice cheeky easter egg and let's be honest, probably necessary like,—
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ROB: — just to bring everything into the– you know, little– little Geralt, little Eskel, little Lambert, little Remus, you know, it's hard to be mad at it.
ALYSSA: Yeah, it's one of those things that, like, you see it happen on screen, and you're just kind of like– Ahhh! What is that?! Um– but at the same time, like there were a lot of I think memes on the internet with young Geralt with the little avatar arrow on his head. You know, it kind of wrote itself. As you said, it's kind of necessary to actually tie in the continuity amongst all the media within the universe, which again, because they have all of these outlets, it's really cool for them to be able to do so yeah, it was just one of those moments were like, oh, that's the end, and then it goes straight to credits. And as we do close out the movie and close out these episodes of Breakfast in Beauclair, do you have any final thoughts on Nightmare of the Wolf, and the very first Witcher anime film?
ROB: I thought it was really good. Obviously, yeah, there was a few liberties taken with the lore stuff. But you know, it is what it is. I think The Witcher itself lends itself really well to the anime style. And I would absolutely love to see more in that style, in that genre. And also just seeing that universe in animation as well, I just think it's really cool. Really, really nice, regardless. Just seeing it in a different type of media, it's just great. There's a lot of possibilities and I think it's quite exciting with Netflix at the moment and this universe and this product, to see what they can really do and push I guess.
PIOTR: Well, I totally agree with Rob. The thing that we said in the beginning of this episode, that they were very consistent with the thing they wanted to do and they were very open with it, like, as we said before you are either in or out, but this is it, there will be no surprises here like, this is anime, you know, you either agree of it or not. I personally was really positively surprised with the movie, because I wasn't so sure about it when I saw all the teasers and so on, but when it started, I got hooked really quickly. I liked the plot. I liked the practice, as I said, lovely dialogues, I really liked how the whole thing was written. And as we said, there were some mistakes made when it comes to which are lore. There were some plot holes as well, but come on, show me a movie when there are no plot holes in it. But all in all, it was consistent, the story was nicely told and I think that it really fit into The Witcher poetry. The themes that we know from the books from the games, and so on, they were there, and they were really nicely depicted. So all in all, it was good. I liked it.
ALYSSA: I'm certainly looking forward to more within the style, as he both said, you know, animation, and we know this, you know, from the games, of course, and the little cinematic trailers they would do for the video games, but the Witcher and all of its supernatural elements just shine when things are brought into animation and CG, which is really cool. And we'll be getting at least one more film. And I'm sure we'll be very surprised as to what the content might be. Obviously, there's so much within the worlds and lore that Sapkowski just didn't write. So it's really interesting to see a lot of these things fleshed out. And even if they don't fit, you know, as nicely into some of the content that's been done around the books or even around the games, it at least builds out and fleshes out the worlds that Netflix is creating, at least within itself, which is pretty neat. And I think it gives viewers and Netflix audiences even more to– to look forward to. So that is it for our show today. Piotr, Rob, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. And thank you to our Hanza for listening. So where can people find both of you? And is there anything that our community can help you with or anything that you would like to share with them?
PIOTR: You can find me through the Witcher School blog. So if you want to learn more at www. witcherschool.com, there's everything you need to know on our website. So– yeah, I hope to see some of you, Alyssa, Rob– you specifically because I've just met you and it would be lovely to talk to you in real life. I end on that. Everyone at home is just you know, be safe. Just spend safe holidays because– I can say this right? That we are recording this just before the Christmas.
ALYSSA: Oh, yeah, we're recording the Sunday before Christmas. So happy February to everybody who is listening.
PIOTR: So comes at February. Exactly. I have to say that it was a real opportunity to be here. And thank you very much for having me because it was really great. So thanks.
ROB: You can find me on the internet @theundeadgamr, gamer without the E. I stream on Twitch playing various games. Goodness knows what I'll be playing come February but stay tuned for that. Also, make sure you listen to our monthly gaming podcast, the UndeadGamingCast, which you can find on most podcasting platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and the like. Where we talk about video games, the industry and stuff and all things, and we have special guests and a few bonus episodes here and then. But yeah, it's a– it's a good time. Other than that, thank you so much for having me on again. It's been an absolute blast to be able to talk about the Witcher with more Witcher nerds, which is always a great time, right? So yeah, thank you so much for that. And also join the three of us next week where we'll be discussing Mean Girls, Regina George, and answer the question of, does she even go here? Thank you.
ALYSSA: At the very least, you can subscribe to the Breakfast in Beauclair Patreon in which Piotr and Rob are helping me with the tiny little experiment in which they will go head to head on Nightmare of the Wolf trivia. So stay tuned for that exclusive content. They're about to do it. So we will record that and get back to you. But thank you both so much for joining me. It's such a pleasure to open the season with both of you. I'm excited to meet you both at Witcher School one day. I have so many ideas for Witcher School–related podcast episodes, you have no idea. One day I'm going to do them and I'll be so excited. But thank you both so much for joining me and next episode join us as we discuss The Witcher season two episode one, A Grain of Truth.
Outro & Credits
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.
Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.
Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Kyle, the H2HOE, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, and Roxas.
Special thanks to Rob and Piotr for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.
Transcriptionist: Charlie Lim
Editor: John Matthew Sarong, Krizia Marrie Casil