Ep. 47 — Netflix’s Nightmare of the Wolf (Part 1)

Rob, TheUndeadGamr, and Piotr from Witcher School join Alyssa for Part 1 of our discussion of Netflix’s anime spin-off film, The Witcher: Nightmare of the Wolf. Very important bits include: The Witcher in animation, station and the desire for ‘something more’, changes from the existing lore of the Witcher, narrative storytelling in VR, Witcher Monster Slayer from Spokko and CD Projekt Red, Sapkowski Verbatim!, LARP 101: An Introduction to LARP with Witcher School in Poland, and Puppies of Surprise.

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

ALYSSA: Question 4. Deglan says that “[blank] disrupts the demon’s magic.” What is it?

ROB: [Sung] “Toss A Coin To Your Witcher…!” Uh, meteorite steel powder?

ALYSSA: Uh, it–it was meteorite! We’re just going to forget the rest! [Laughs]

ROB: Oh! Okay, that’s— [Laughs]

ALYSSA: It’s meteorite ore! It’s meteorite ore! It’s fine, I’ll give it to you. [Laughs]

ROB: I’ll take it. [Laughs]

PIOTR: Or what?

ALYSSA: Ore—or—[laughs]

ROB: [Laughs] Oh, there we go! In with the dad jokes.

PIOTR: Why—why thank you. [Laughs]

ALYSSA: Oh no!

ROB: Give him a point, give him a point. [Laughs]

ALYSSA: Okay, fine, Piotr, you’re getting another bonus—[laughs]

PIOTR: [Laughs]

ALYSSA: I think beyond bonus content, this is really, like, audio evidence of our, just, eventual dissent into madness, um…

PIOTR: [Laughs]

ROB: Subscribe now!

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Introduction

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.

It’s here! We’re kicking off Season 4 of the podcast, in which we’ll discuss all things Netflix including Nightmare of the Wolf, ‘The Witcher’ Season 2, and ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin.’ I hope you all had a lovely break, I know I did. Since the last episode of the podcast, I completed a workout challenge at my local gym. I finished an entire level of Spanish lessons and began Level 3 yesterday. I took ballet for the first time in 12 years. We’ve done table reads for the the first four episodes of the upcoming audio drama I’m executive producing and have begun production on Episode 1. With our resident GM, Gary from Kentucky, we wrapped up our year-long D&D campaigns on the Continent and have begun four new campaigns starring 20 players from our international community across the Americas and Europe. Together, the hanza spent many hours over the break watching 17 Christmas films and 2000’s romcoms including A Cinderella Story, A Cinderella Story: Christmas Wish, The Princess Switch Trilogy (in reverse chronological order), What a Girl Wants, 10 Things I Hate About You, High School Musical 1 and 2, Little Italy, The Royal Treatment, Night at the Museum, She’s the Man, and Miss Congeniality along with “An Audience with Adele”, Kid Nation, and Junior Bake Off 2022.

[Podcast Reviews]

Since the last season, Spotify has added the ability to rate podcasts on their platform! Now you can rate and review Breakfast in Beauclair on Spotify in addition to Apple Podcasts and Facebook. Ratings and reviews encourage potential listeners to give the show a chance! So, if you’ve enjoyed the last three seasons of the podcast, be sure to rate it on your listening app of choice and tell your friends and family!

[Hanza Meetups]

Due to current restrictions and medical recommendations, we’ll be postponing our international meetup in Edinburgh this April. However, if you’re local to London or willing to travel, some members of our community will be having a small meetup in two weeks on Saturday, February 19th. For more details about the meetup and to connect with members of our community, visit the Hanza Discord.

[Patron Announcements]

Over the break, we had a number of patrons join the show on Patreon. This episode we welcome Jessica from Kentucky, Strycnosa, Erin from the US, Matt from Liverpool, Softie, and Mirjam from Germany along with new producer-level patrons Psilocybe Sorcerer, Trevor from the US, and Roxas who join our existing producer-level patrons: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, and Kyle, the H2HOE.

This episode’s cold open is a clip from our new pub quiz show, “The Quiz of Surprise”, which is exclusive to patrons of Breakfast in Beauclair. In “The Quiz of Surprise”, guests of the show go head-to-head in trivia about the content we literally just discussed. I had so much fun with Rob and Piotr recording the first one. If you’d like to hear the full 20 minute episode and learn more about becoming a patron of the show, visit patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.

[Episode Details]

As for this episode, Rob, TheUndeadGamr, and Piotr from Witcher School call in for a discussion of Netflix’s anime spin-off film, Nightmare of the Wolf. Join us as we discuss the Witcher in animation, station and the desire for ‘something more’, changes from the existing lore, narrative storytelling in VR, Witcher Monster Slayer from Spokko and CD Projekt Red, LARP 101: An Introduction to LARP with Witcher School in Poland, Puppies of Surprise, and Sapkowski: Verbatim!

In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares updates from The Witcher Season 2, The Witcher Season 3, The Witcher: Blood Origin, and Netflix’s next anime film.

After the break, don’t miss the new listener call-in segment with members of our international community.

Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s Nightmare of the Wolf (Part 1).

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa and I'm so pleased to open Season 4 of the podcast with my guests today. My first guest is an actor, performer, gamer, and streamer who you'll recognize from Episodes 25 and 26 of Breakfast in Beauclair, covering Rare Species from season one of Netflix's The Witcher. He LARPs with a UK-based Northern Kingdom system as Baldur, a Bear school witcher, please welcome back, Rob TheUndeadGamr. Hey, Rob.

ROB: Hey, thank you so much for having me back.

ALYSSA: Yes, I'm so excited to have you here as well. My second guest is a game designer from Poland specializing in narrative, who uses his talents at both the game dev company and as one of the organizers and main writers for The Witcher School LARP. Please welcome Piotr from Witcher School. Hey, Piotr. 

PIOTR: Hello.

ALYSSA: Well, it is so lovely to have you both here for the opening of season four of Breakfast in Beauclair, I can't believe we are starting the season. The Witcher Season Two just came out in the last few days. So we're sitting down to record Nightmare of the Wolf, the anime which came out in August. But before we get to that, I'd love to hear more about both of you. Uh, Rob, you were a guest in July 2020? So like—

ROB: Yeah, yeah.

ALYSSA: — a year and a half ago, and I think that episode came out around like October or so. But what has been new with you since then? I know we've been in COVID. So th–

ROB: Yes, COVID was– IS still a thing uhm, but my, my life took a big, big change towards the end of last year. So I've had a lot of, lot of things change in my personal life, which I've had to deal with, which had been really tough. But I've taken the time with, like, a lot of support with my friends and family and you know, got my life so– back on track with things and I've just sort of really taken a lot of time for myself, honestly. So the– the sort of acting stuff has kind of been put on hold a little bit. I mean, COVID did that anyway, but yeah, just focusing on– on me a little bit has been, has been necessary. But you know, aside from that still been gaming and streaming and all that sort of thing, which you know, keeps those creative juices flowing a little bit. And uhm, in the UK this year, we were able to get back to, to doing a little bit of LARPing, which has been great. So uhm, it's been nice to sort of get back in the field and get my Witcher on again, which has been fun. So yeah, yeah, it's, it's been good. Take time for myself and uh, mental health as well, which has been really important. You know, anyone who's going through a hard time like it's okay, look after yourself. You need to. It’s very important.

ALYSSA: One of the other ways I think you've continued to play I know that you're gaming as well. But we're both friends on Witcher Monster Slayer,—

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: — and I do know that you also play on there as Baldur. I think I named- I actually forgot what I named my Witcher—

ROB: Jarek, I think it was.

ALYSSA: Jarek. Yeah. Jarek is super hot. It's always really fun to, like, go through my friends list and see like oh Baldur, that– that's Rob. And I'll send you a little gift.

ROB: Love it.

ALYSSA: What's something that you've encountered, that you've been surprised with in Witcher Monster Slayer, that you would or wouldn't like to meet in person?

ROB: Oh man, too many things. There's been things on there that obviously haven't been in the games previously which has been nice, so they– they've clearly been you know, slightly expanding the, you know, the– the bestiary and things like that. But I actually encountered this the other day and it terrified me to my core, as myself, and then just would be something that yeah as a witcher I would not want to tangle with and it was like a thunder- thundster or something like that. It was essentially like, the wererat variant but it basically looked like Pikachu from Pokemon and I'm not okay with it, I'm not okay with it. Pikachu is my favorite Pokemon and like, CDPR, you've done him dirty. Like, he, he's there as a little yellow rat, he's got like a thundery little mustache and that, like, crinkle tail. It's terrifying. No thank you.

ALYSSA: On that note, Piotr. So you work for a game dev company in Poland. What kind of games do you work on? What kind of worlds do you like to immerse yourself in as a writer?

PIOTR: I've just started to be honest, I've started three months ago. So the company I worked for is called Carbon and we mainly specialize in VR games. Our latest title is Warhammer Age of Sigmar Tempestfall. So big IP as well. And that's, that's cool. That's really awesome to be part of it. I mean, when I joined the game was newly– just before you know, it was released so I didn't really do anything of the main game, but we're currently doing something, some add-ons and so on working on that so that's, that's really cool to be a part of that. So yeah, mostly some fantasy universes for me, but I'm ummm, you know, all-around nerd. Everything really, really works for me. I love cyberpunk. I love science fiction. Recently I got really into, I don't know if you know this tabletop RPG by Free League called uh, Vaesen, it's a Nordic horror RPG and this is bonkers how good it is. And I'm not really into horror, so I was surprised that– that it really caught my attention. But it's great. So, yeah.

ALYSSA: You mentioned that you're working mostly in VR now, does the medium of VR affect the way that you tell stories? Like, what have you learned about creating content for that kind of world and experience?

PIOTR: Well, I'm just getting into it really, because before I started working for Carbon, I didn't really play anything before VR medium, but it is really different. Because the whole game is real-life action, you cannot really add any cutscenes, you cannot tell the player, okay, now look here, and we'll just show you something because the player has to move their head and see what's happening. So it's really fun to create, for example, you know, important events in a game, like I don't know, someone you love is dying just next to you. But if you're looking over there, you don't see them dying. Just hear them, you know, coughing blood. And so you somehow have to take this into consideration as well. But this is more for the level design department, I believe, just to make things in such a way that the players' attention will be drawn to important things. As for the storytelling, well, yeah, it also influenced it, because you cannot tell things via cutscenes. So you have to somehow get over to get around it to you know, to just tell what you want to tell, but in such a way that fits the medium. And it's a– it's challenging. It's really challenging, but it's also fun.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

PIOTR: So yeah, that's great.

ALYSSA: That's super interesting. That's not something I would have ever thought about just like the lack of cutscenes, or like contained storytelling, 'cause I know if I just sit in a video game, and someone was kicking it beside me, I would straight up walk the heck out of that room.

PIOTR: I mean to me, it was a rather new experience as well, because I remember that the one of the first writing tasks I got when I got the job was to create some scene and I wrote it and you know, dialogues– everything and coworker who was checking it for me and giving feedback, he was like, that's great…BUT. Then he told me that, for example, things I plan, they would work really nice in the cutscene.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

PIOTR: But in a VR game, they wouldn't work at all. So I had to rewrite the whole thing from the beginning. That was fun as well.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, that's really interesting. I think the one other thing that I want to dive into with both of you is the fact that both of you are involved in LARPing, with the Witcher School in Poland, as well as with the Northern Kingdoms in the UK. So could you both tell me a little bit about how you personally got into LARP and what your experience has been with both of those systems?

ROB: I got into LARP like, whatever, 10 years ago, way before I was even like, into the Witcher, like my first sort of, like, fantasy love was Lord of the Rings, you know, being obsessed with that and fantasy in general. And then thinking damn, people actually go and do that over the weekend, dress up and hit each other with swords and stuff, like that sounds like the dopest thing. So, you know, found out where I could do it locally and started. And it wasn't until like 2019 or 2018 in fact, I think there was rumors of a Witcher LARP starting in the UK, and in 2019 it happened, run by a guy called Simon Deacon here in– in the UK and it's you know, become the Northern Kingdoms LARP which is, you know, obviously the UK’s first official Witcher LARP, which is really cool. And I got lucky enough to play a witcher in that, it's about the Northern Kingdoms fighting the third Nilfgaardian war is kind of the premise of the– the whole system and the whole LARP. There are limited sort of player numbers for, for witchers, because we're quite rare at this sort of stage in their sort of timeline and that sort of thing. So the majority of people just play, you know, everyday people, everyday soldiers or mages or what have you. It's awesome. Glad to have done you know, two more events of it this year, after COVID and everything. Yeah, I just love diving into that world, even more so in like a physical world, like being able to be surrounded in it physically, rather than it just being on your TV screen or computer screen. You, you know, just feel fully immersed in this world that I've been loving for the last, you know, five-plus more years, with the books and the video games and everything and yeah, just feeling like you're a part of it even more so is just fantastic. And I think it's just something in general that LARP does and LARP gives to you with the role play and the immersion and everything. And it's just yeah, just fantastic. 

PIOTR: To me it's very similar with Rob, I've LARPed for a little bit longer because I've LARPed for like 20 years now, but I started when I was like 10 or 11 maybe so yeah it, it has been a while. Then I had like three or four years off of a break because I was from Poland. I lived in Taiwan for a spell so not a big LARPing community then– back there, but when I returned to Poland, my friend was like, dude, I know that you love Witcher and there's this Witcher School thing going on and they are looking for NPCs right now so maybe you can just try to join it. And I almost didn't really submit for the NPC role because I was like, “nah, they will not take me.” They did take me. And so the adventure started from that point on. First, it was being just an NPC, then I joined the character sheets writers team, then at some point they're looking for someone to become coordinator of the LARP. So I was like, I can, I can do it. And it has been four years now, almost four years—

ALYSSA: Wow.

PIOTR: — now. And it's, it's awesome. I mean, the greatest thing about it is that I've met so many people from around the world, lovely people, great people from the UK, from the US, everywhere really. And this is what really, really gives me the hype to continue on doing this thing. As for LARPing, itself, I love it. So just like Rob said, this is you know, you getting into the whole universe in which you can really immerse yourself. It's not like reading a book or a movie or even playing a game, which is more immersive than those two other mediums. But – But here you are the hero, right, who I am inside the world, and this is really awesome. Lately, I really got into the acting challenge. So what I love about LARPing right now, to me, the, the biggest thing is that I can play someone that is not me, because, for many, many years, I played the character who was so you know, the the person wasn't me, but they did have a lot of my, of my traits.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

PIOTR: Nowadays, I try to just, you know, do something very different. So for example, nowadays, I really enjoy playing villains. As it turns out, I have a talent for it. And that's great. Maybe it also tells me something about myself, but it's very challenging, but also when you know, when other players come to you, and they tell you, dude, I was really afraid of you or you really impressed me with doing something, that you feel like alright, job well done. Great.

ALYSSA: So I've got two more questions, one for each of you. So around this time last year, the Hanza started getting into Dungeons and Dragons and getting into character creation and all that stuff. So when it actually comes to character creation for LARP, however, Rob, could you tell us a little bit about how you developed Baldur to start with and how he's developed over the course of you know, several LARPing events?

ROB: Yeah, absolutely. So I was kind of caught between doing like either a Wolf school witcher or a Bear school witcher and my friends at the time are kind of like, well, maybe do a Bear school, because otherwise, you might accidentally fall into some, like, Geralt-y tropes. And I really didn't want to do that, because I wanted to make my own character and person, you know, I was trying my best to sort of like work out well, okay, maybe this is what they uh, they believe in or that their own sort of witcher's code and all this sort of thing, as we know from the books is something that kind of steers Geralt's morals, and that sort of thing. And so what was Baldur's own witcher code and running around a few ideas in my head and that sort of thing. But I think it's something which is, I think, the testament to LARP, you can't really fully decide or cement things until you're actually on the field, and you're doing them. Because things can just change sometimes, and experiences can just change you. So as long as you're sort of willing to be flexible a little bit with that, and let your character sort of grow naturally due to those experiences, or your characters essentially lived experiences. Which sounds really weird to say, but yeah, that sort of lets you steer them, I think, I don't know. I mean, it's also just fun to just play grumpy asshole witcher right? Like, it's just, it's just fun. But I think one thing I've realized is, or, which is quite challenging for me as a person is playing social situations a little bit weirdly uhm, knowing that Yeah, this guy that I'm playing is like 50 something years old, and for most of his life just been on his own. So he doesn't quite know how to sort of really talk to people well, like he'll start a conversation but then not know how to sorta carry it on or he'll say something and everyone's like, okay, cool, and wait for you to carry on. But it's like no, that was a statement I've said—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: — and they're like what? Things like that are quite fun to sort of play with—

ALYSSA: Right.

ROB: — and then you've just got to be like a straight face like, uhh... witcher you know,—

ALYSSA: Right.

ROB: — frowning, he's just like, uhh... walk away. It's uh, it's challenging and really fun.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think it's time to get you a child surprise in your next arc to open you—

ROB: Please no. Uhm...

ALYSSA: You don't need a small infant or confused dog?

ROB: Oh, maybe a dog, I'll take the dog.

ALYSSA: And, I guess Piotr, Witcher School, it's something that I've personally always wanted to go to and I've always wanted to explore.

ROB: Same.

PIOTR: Oh, please do, please do. Lovely! 

ALYSSA: Yeah! And you guys had, like, a huge boom in press like earlier this summer and fall because people were, like, hyped about you know, The Witcher Season Two and Nightmare of the Wolf, and you guys got a lot of press around it which was awesome. For people in the community who may have never been to Witcher School and would like to in the future, what introductory tips might you have for them when it comes to experiencing LARP for the very first time?

PIOTR: Don't be afraid to come. I mean, because we get a lot of people like really a lot of people who never LARPed before because the whole game is designed just for them. And what I mean by it is that in the price of the ticket, which can be steep, and we, we agree on that, but in that price, you get not only you know the castle to use—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

PIOTR: —  the whole staff of people who are just there to help you out uh, because the NPCs are there for you, even if you are a person who is new to LARPing and who is not very active, because some people they tend to, you know, just become watchers, rather than active players, our team is there to you know, when someone sees you, you know, sitting by yourself, maybe being bored by the whole thing, because you're just you know, watching and doing nothing else, there will be someone who will come to you and you know, just sit by you and say, friend, let's talk. And they will just try to bring you into the fun.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

PIOTR: We also give the players a costume, they receive the character sheet in which there are some things listed on you know, what you can do during the games that fits your character. So for example, I don't know, if you're a spy or something like that you would do something like maybe you should, you know, try to find someone powerful and get into their good side so they will help you in the future. So some tips on how to, you know, do some meaningful things during, during the game. My advice to people who never LARPed and who would like to come to Witcher School is just read all the documents you receive. Because we have some guides prepared as well for people who just you know, explaining everything. So how you're supposed to play the game, what are the do's and don'ts and so on. And that's it's really, don't have to do nothing other than just to come to the castle and when the adventure starts, hopefully, you will get immersed very quickly, especially that we put the players into groups,so there will always be someone in a group who is an experienced LARPer. Those people tend to, because our company is awesome in that way that those more experienced veterans and so on, they mostly really are good in helping other people to get into the game. So this is like really cool that you're not on your own.

ROB: I think that's one of the best and beautiful things about the LARP community, in general, is the, like, you said every, like, there's always gonna be someone who's there like a veteran as it were, or someone who's more experienced. As a new player you just got, you just got to throw yourself in as best you can. You can be as prepared as you want to be but it can be quite weird when you're there. Because it's a bit much sometimes. But that's a testament to like, you know, the veteran players or the experienced players and the crew to be like, “hey, come on, like you know, come, come join the fun, you okay?” and engage with those players and give them their you know, confidence as they go and let them know hey, this is, this is awesome, do you wanna come and do a thing or whatever it is. And yeah, that's just how this community just continues to grow and yeah, it's great.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I love that so much. It sounds like such a special and interesting experience. And I'm so excited at the prospect of like, hopefully trekking out to Poland one day and coming to see some of the beautiful architecture that's there and hang out and to experience Witcher School as both a player and as like a quote-unquote like, I don't want to say journalist that feels weird, "podcaster".

PIOTR: But please do—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

PIOTR: — let me say I invite you, just come here and, and yes and also you will head to Wrocław, which is the city from– most players will, you know, get to the castle from because the airport is here and so on. And it's a beautiful city as well—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

PIOTR: — so you know if you come and please do, just remember to you know, get a few more days off to just do some sightseeing because the city is awesome.

ALYSSA: Today we'll discuss Nightmare of the Wolf, the original anime film from Netflix that follows Geralt's father figure Vesemir from his childhood through the fall of Kaer Morhen. In the opening scene, a small noble family gets lost in the forest and is slaughtered by a Leshen, only a boy, Sugo, survives and is saved by a witcher, Vesemir. So this opening scene starts out like you see the moonlight, you hear like this creepy little boy voice, which is a very beautiful voice I'll admit, it's got its own kind of like level of horror, where he's singing and the carriage stops. He gets reprimanded by his father and then all of a sudden his father just has a root coming out of his face, that there's blood everywhere, his sisters die, he's running through the forest. And after this scene, I full-on had to stop the movie and just walk away for maybe like five minutes, come back, and then just continue the rest of the scene. Those horror elements, like, continually freak me out throughout the entire movie, which is the only reason why I've only been able to watch this movie twice.

ROB: It got real, really quick. Like—

PIOTR: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: — in the first couple of minutes to that film, like it was not holding punches—

ALYSSA: Mm mm.

ROB: — like at all. Uhm... yeah.

PIOTR: As Rob said, things got really real, very quickly. The thing I really like about the whole movie, to be honest, is that it really draws from anime aesthetics.

ALYSSA: Mmm.

PIOTR: They're not shy about it because for example, in this very scene when the leshen just tears up everyone, blood is everywhere. You know, so anime like you know, that it's almost too much.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

PIOTR: Because many people after they watch the movie, the friends I talked to, they said, Oh, it was okay, but I didn't like the anime aesthetics. And I'm like, dude, but it is, it is what it's supposed to be. And they weren't shy about it, they were really consistent about the aesthetics of the whole thing. So I love it to be honest and it immediately told you, okay, this is what you're in for, this is what you will be getting from this thing, you're either in or not. So it's your choice right now, this was really good to me.

ROB: Yeah. 100%, like it throws you in straight away, tells you exactly what you need to expect with, like, at the level of gore– also, you're right, it's that sort of stylized anime gore. And that goes right the way through to like the extremely stylized sign usage—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: — where Vesemir uses Aard and it's just like, you know, crashing out through the forest and that sort of thing. Totally overdone. But like so, so cool, just within the realms of the style. I know, I think in general, I probably repeat myself a lot. But I think that sort of anime-style really fits the Witcher world as well, quite a lot. It's nice that they kind of went balls to the wall with it, and was, like, we're making an anime film, and that's what you're gonna get. So jump on.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: The lullaby? At the start, or the little song, it really was, for me reminiscent of the Lullaby of Woe, from The Witcher 3,—

PIOTR: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: Yes.

ROB: — which I thought was cool, you know, getting that creepy atmosphere and a song that just sort of fits the world and the aesthetic. And yeah, then all of a sudden, there's that boom, that horror and gore, and everything. And the Leshen design as well was really interesting. So again, another thing that I think was a strong thing from this film was the monster designs, we'll probably talk about them later. They're all very unique and very different, even from the TV series, which I think was, you know, good, you know, you know, just makes it its own thing, which was cool.

ALYSSA: I think when it comes to animation in general, you know, Studio Mir the studio that did Nightmare of the Wolf was also the same studio that did Legend of Korra, and a number of other very popular shows as well. But I think the comparison that's easily made between you know, Nightmare of the Wolf and shows like Avatar: The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra is that animation is almost like this filter that kind of suspends your disbelief when it comes to like humans being able to do these things. I think the struggle with live-action supernatural shows across television, Marvel, The Witcher, etc, is sometimes when it is live-action, the CGI is sometimes distracting. But when you have that glazy filter of animation, you just kind of take everything and you're just like, yeah, it's totally believable that this Leshen can turn into an army of bats. And like, yeah, I can believe that. I think it makes the experience of watching these so much more immersive. And as you said, Rob, I think that animation and anime, as you said Piotr, lends itself really nicely to the worlds of The Witcher.

ROB: Yeah, 100%.

PIOTR: As Rob said, the design of the monster is very cool. And what I loved about it, is that they were like, we are doing our own thing. Because we know a leshen is a very, very popular monster from The Witcher universe. And it conjures up the same image to everyone who played the game. So you know, this wooden thing with the skull and everything. And they did something very different from that. And I love it, they are like, we are trying to imitate the image that you know, of the monster from Witcher 3 from the games, a very different thing, still, something that fits the idea. So perfectly cool, I think.

ALYSSA: And there's a little bit of information that we get about witchers in general, just in this fight scene alone. So we're able to see the tools that Vesemir uses. So he has like this chain, which is pretty new to at least what we've seen in the Netflix series and even in the games. Potions, the signs which we get to see used throughout the fight using a chain that again, set the standard for what to expect for the rest of the film. The other thing that kind of comes up and we couldn't have known this, you know six months ago when the film came out, is that Vesemir kills Leshen by covering his sword in oil and then lighting it on fire, which as we found out two days ago is the same thing that Geralt's does in Episode Two: Kaer Morhen—

PIOTR: Oh, no. Don’t spoil it, I haven't seen it yet.

ALYSSA: —You haven't seen—

ROB: Oh no!

ALYSSA: — it yet?! I'm not gonna say more than that! I'm not gonna say more than that!

PIOTR: No! Everyone– but no. But to be honest, that's fine. I'm, yep that’s fine.

ALYSSA: Oh no. Well, so this is technically a spoiler-free show. But this episode is coming out in February, so I assume that you'll be done with it by then.

PIOTR: Uhh yeah. Even I will watch it. But I, so far I've seen only the first episode because I didn't have the time—

ALYSSA: Okay.

PIOTR: — to get into it. So, uhm... sorry.

ALYSSA: That's totally fine. You're busy recording a podcast right now,—

PIOTR: Exactly.

ALYSSA: — you're gonna get to it eventually. But it is pretty cool to see that even something that they must have developed, you know, a year or two years ago is consistent between the anime film and the Netflix series

ROB: It's almost giving it a bit more like continuity,—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: — in certain aspects, which is really cool, even though they've, you know, been very brave to be like, we're doing our own thing with this. It's still very much part of the Netflix Witcher-verse if you want to give it an overall cover, or whatever, or blanket,—

ALYSSA: Right.

ROB: — although it's still sort of very on its own, it still very much feeds into those continuity aspects, which I think is very cool.

ALYSSA: Mhmm. One of the last things we get in this opening scene as well, we start to hint at the mystery and the plot of the film, Sugo says to Vesemir, I thought you said that they, as in the Leshen, didn't speak, Vesemir responds, they don't. So there's already something about this whole thing that's a little bit bizarre, and again, feeds into that horror theme and that mystery theme that we encounter through the rest of the film. In the next scene, Vesemir loots Sugo's father's body, and the boy talks to a sorceress and tells her how Vesemir abandoned him in the woods. Tetra Gilcrest, a sorceress on Kaedwen's Council, tries to convince Kaedwen's king to exterminate the witchers as a noblewoman, Lady Zerbst disagrees. That's such a long run-on sentence. Okay, whatever. Yeah, the next scene that happens starts to add in a lot of the political figures that we'll see throughout the rest of the film, and what the overall sentiment is about witchers, which seems to be a little bit perilous and a little precarious at the moment. Just because there is now this sorceress, this mage, who is for some unknown reason hell-bent on making sure that the witchers are exterminated in Kaedwen. But yeah, what did you guys think of this first look into politics in the witcher?

PIOTR: Well, it was alright. We'll get to it– we'll be discussing the ending because I think the– spoiler, I think that the whole mages do what they do in the movie, and that's why witchers got eradicated, which is through to the source material, right? But how they got around it, I particularly like it. But yeah, we'll get into the details later on. But I think that was really cool foreshadowing to the fact that, in fact, it is a story about the fall of Kaer Morhen, we see that why that witchers do not have a really good reputation right now, that they do things that are considered immoral. Here, we can see that, for example. Yes, Vesemir did save the boy. But it's clear that he didn't really give a shit about his fate. He just, you know, he saved the boy, just because by chance he was there and he killed the monster– he wanted to get the money, if the boy was not saved, he would be fine with probably as well. So we can clearly see that Vesemir for example, if you know Vesemir, from the books, from the games, and so on, we know that this is the young Vesemir, he's a totally different character, there will probably you know some story arc behind his character's development and so on. I think that it will massively foreshadows the whole thing that's going to develop later on.

ROB: Yeah, also, like, you know, on top of that introduction with the fight with a leshen and– and obviously the throne room, or the council, very quickly, within like the first five minutes, you're thrown into getting introduced to basically all the movers and shakers for this whole film. And it sets everything up very, very nicely. I think, along with a– as been said a little bit a, little bit of foreshadowing, just sort of, you know, little soupçon on top, just to sort of get your teeth into. The film doesn't sort of muck about it's, you know, first five minutes, boom, here it is. Here's what we're going for, as a viewer, makes you sort of sit quite comfortably in, okay, cool. This is what we're down for. So let's go. Yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And I think as we both said, it's like that kind of tease and we'll get to dive into some of the politics at least within Kaedwen itself. In the following scene, Vesemir tells an elf, Filavandrel, about his encounter with the Leshen. Filavandrel jumps out the window deciding to conduct his own investigation into this mystery. This is a really cool thing that they were able to do across the live-action series and Nightmare of the Wolf is that Filavandrel is played by Tom Canton, who's the same actor who plays them in the live-action series. That was a really neat thing to like, see, and just cool for the actor. Like, I feel so excited for the actor that they were able to play this character consistently across all of the media. But some of the things that we learn between Filavandrel and Vesemir's dialogue is that the thing that the Leshen had said that stood out to Vesemir at the end, Filavandrel, is able to identify it as a language called Ellylon, which is a dead elven dialect and translates what the leshen said to quote "Beware the den of my dead.", which is super ominous. We have no idea what that means. And Vesemir is so nonchalant, he has his own bath scene, which Netflix has turned into like an hour-long Lo-Fi video that you can find on YouTube. It's high contrast between how nonchalant Vesemir is and how cautious I think Filavandrel is when he says that like girls have been disappearing from the Elven ranks and he mentions one elf in particular named Kitsu, who was one of the first to vanish and she happened to also speak Ellylon and then he jumps out the window.

ROB: Yeah, I'll be honest, Alyssa and listeners, I wrote my own notes for this as well. The only note I've written for this bath scene is in block capitals “IT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT”. Okay? 'Cause all Witcher fans need is just a little bit of something in the bathtub.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: That. That's what we want. But yeah, like in all seriousness, we're starting to uncover a bit more of that mystery element of this Leshen that talks and I think it shows a lot of Vesemir's sort of young– I don't know naivete is the wrong word or like just cockiness he just doesn't really care is like he's just in it for the monster and the coins. Right? And this is, again, a running theme that we'll see sort of from Vesemir for majority of this film, compared to how you know, fans of the books or the game sort of know him to be, which is quite interesting. It's like, yeah, you know, Filavandrel got this thing that's going on that, you know, is, oh man, this isn't right, this isn't okay. Also, you know, some elven girls that are going missing, he's like ah well, whatever. You know, it's just the thing I heard anyway, thanks for the coin, see ya later. Yeah, it's just starts to add to that mystery, and all of these different pieces that are slowly sort of falling before us as a viewer to try and put together which just again, makes this film all the more interesting. And of course, you know, bath scene is what people want.

PIOTR: Well, yeah, nothing to add, to be honest, I mean the bath scene bit. But speaking of this scene, I think it was the first time in which I realized how good the dialogues are because they're really well written. And for example, Vesemir, yeah, he's cocky, he is a selfish son of a gun, but also, he's likable– to me, in this instance. And the dialogue, the delivery is very well done, because this is the point when you will either like the character or not. And I think yeah, Vesemir's a cool, cool guy, especially later on when he does the Vesemir salute. Cool thing to do. And yes, and again, the bath scene, I mean, we get one for every– I think everything set in the Witcher universe you have to get at least one bath scene so they've done a few– I'll be honest, so just get it out of the way. But yeah, really nice. And as you said, it was really nice to see the continuity with Filavandrel's character. Really nice.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Yeah, that is awesome.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And on the subject of dialogue as well. So the writer slash producer who did Nightmare of the Wolf, Beau DeMayo, also did Episode 3, “Betrayer Moon” from Season 1, as well as Episode 2, “Kaer Morhen”, from Season 2. So he's been working, you know, consistently within all of the media that Netflix has produced, although I think he's now stepping away from The Witcher because now he's the showrunner for the upcoming animated X-Men series that's coming out, I believe.

ROB: Ohoho. Hell yes.

PIOTR: Nice.

ALYSSA: Which is like super dope—

ROB: Yeah. Let's go.

ALYSSA: —so yeah, good luck to him with everything moving forward. But yeah, it's been really cool to kind of, like, have his voice in the media consistently.

ROB: I mean, mentioning as well, being the writers of those two episodes in particular from the– the series as well, the dialogue in those are very good.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: There's some very good conversations, not to spoil season two, but like, you know, the season one between Geralt and King Foltest, you know, there's so many key points of conversation and dialogue that are just so good in that episode in particular, but yeah, that, it tracks. And, dude, if you're moving on to the X-Men animated series and get like, I'm so hyped for that.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Let's go. Yeah.

ALYSSA: So at this point, we kind of transition after Filavandrel, like, jumps out the window, he, like, pulls up his hood, and he's just like, I'm out. And then he just, like, just jumps from the balcony—

ROB: Just pure Batman, innit?

ALYSSA: And so Vesemir sits down on the sofa, you know, in his towel, and starts to admire the food that's on the table. And there's something there. This is something that's a little bit silly in animation, because it's just, like, a cylinder. And we need the context of the dialogue to tell us, like, oh, this is honey cake and it's incredibly meaningful for Vesemir, but we'll get to that in a second. So he looks at this like, little cake on the table, which triggers a flashback.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we learn about Vesemir’s childhood and life before Kaer Morhen, we’re going to hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, Rob, Piotr, and I will continue our discussion of Nightmare of the Wolf.

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody for an all-new season! Something ends, something begins: The release of the Witcher's Season 2 was over a month ago and luckily we already know that the show is far from being over: A third season as well as various new spin-off shows and a movie are already confirmed. Unfortunately we don't know about any release dates yet, so long months of set leaks and rumors are now awaiting us again.

Let us start with the main show. Season 2 of The Witcher has joined Netflix's most-viewed TV shows of all time. Currently Season 2 sits at rank 8 in the list of the most popular TV shows on Netflix with 462 million hours watched, only topped by various seasons of Bridgerton, Stranger Things, 13 Reasons Why, Maid, You and, of course, The Witcher Season 1.

But now, let's look into the future: As of the end of January 2022 the Witcher production is already preparing for the filming of Season 3. At the moment various production members, like showrunner Lauren Hissrich, are location scouting and posting some beautiful pictures on Instagram. Unfortunately we do not know where exactly these photos were taken, but it is very likely in the area of Longcross Studios near London, UK.

Moreover we have also learnt that the scripts for Season 3 are already written or as Lauren Hissrich said: "The creative process is now really just starting. We have the scripts, and now we’ll bring directors on, the actors back in, and really start delving in deeper and reflecting back and making sure that it’s the perfect season." She continues: “I’m really thrilled with how the season is shaping up because it’s based on my favorite book in the saga, which is The Time of Contempt. […] I feel like Seasons 1 and 2 have been laying the playing field for everything huge that’s about to happen.” After the adaptation of the first Witcher book in the main saga, Blood of Elves", Season 3 will now adapt "Time of Contempt", the second book in the main saga. In an interview with Collider, Lauren Hissrich also gave some hints about Season 3's storyline: “We approximately do a book a season, but we also make sure that the stories from that book are best in that season of our television show. So sometimes we move those chess pieces around a little bit. There’s a big story from Blood of Elves that we’re gonna do in Season 3 for instance. Or there was a short story that we couldn’t fit in Season 1, so we put it in Season 2. We try to be pretty flexible with that.”

Moving on to "Blood Origin", the Witcher spin-off miniseries about the age of elves around the times of the Conjunction of the Spheres. According to Redanian Intelligence a very special character from the main show will make an appearance in "Blood Origin": our favorite bard Jaskier (played by Joey Batey) will be in a tavern telling or singing an old tale in front of a big crowd. This tale is supposed to be Blood Origin's storyline. Redanian Intelligence adds that Jaskier will be interrupted by an elf that corrects him and says that Jaskier's songs aren't what actually happened. Classic Jaskier.

By the way: If you have watched the final episode of the Witcher main show until the end of the credits, you might have already seen the first teaser trailer for Blood Origin. It includes battle-hardened elven warriors, beautiful set pieces and incredible Icelandic landscapes.

But Blood Origin isn't the only Witcher spin-off on Netflix. Beside the anime movie "Nightmare of the Wolf", that was already released back in August 2021, there are other projects in the making. First, a family-friendly TV series set in the Witcher world we don't know anything about yet. Second, another anime movie set in the Witcher world. In an interview with naEKRANIE, Witcher executive producer Tomek Baginski talked about this new anime movie. He said: “We’re at a fairly early stage, I’ve recently read the first draft […]. It is based on one of the stories we know from the world of The Witcher, so the source is entirely from Sapkowski books, but which story I would prefer to keep a secret.” This is of course very vague and we can only speculate about the anime movie's storyline. If Netflix asked me about my favorite story to adapt in such a movie, my answer would simply be two words: Falka's rebellion.

Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

“Dear Friend…”: Listener Call-In Segment

[Music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hi everyone! This season, I’m pleased to share our new listener call-in segment, “Dear Friend…”. Keep on listening as members of our international hanza share their thoughts on what we’re discussing in this episode:

CHRISTIAAN: Hey, I’m Christiaan from South Africa and Canada and I really enjoyed the overall display from Nightmare of the Wolf of what the witchers were in their prime. How many there were, how rich they were, how powerful they were, how feared and respected they were, and how needed they were. I thought they did a great job to showcase what it was like back in the day of the first, early witchers.

MICHELLE: Hi, my name’s Michelle, I live in Mexico. What I loved about Nightmare of the Wolf was how the love interest was an older woman. It’s so rare to see that in media in general and cultural productions at large, especially in fantasy where when women are older, they look much younger. It was nice to see an older woman who looked her age in this.

TOMI: Hi, hanza! It’s Tomi from Australia. Something that I think worked really well in Nightmare of the Wolf was the art direction. Especially the way colors were used to effectively convey atmosphere. This can be seen in Vesemir’s room at the inn where hazy pinks and reds convey a sense of warmth and comfort or during the exorcism of the mahr, where the cold blue fires create an unnatural and ephemeral feeling. It can also be seen in the swamp where the sickly green mist portends the inner doom of the witcher students. Anyway, that’s all for me. Thanks everyone, bye!

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Thanks to Christiaan, Michelle, and Tomi for sending in their thoughts on Nightmare of the Wolf! Hear your voice in a future “Dear Friend…” segment by emailing greetings@breakfastinbeauclair.com or DMing the podcast on social for more information.

[Music by MojoFilter Media]

Discussion

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Vesemir had looked at a honey cake on a table, which triggered a flashback about his childhood.

ALYSSA: In the flashback, we learn about Vesemir's childhood, he was a servant for lord and lady with a girl named Illyana. After stealing healing herbs and buying honey cake for themselves, they're confronted by a witcher, Deglan, who has heard rumors about an insane noblewoman and demands to be taken to the estate. Vesemir watches as Deglan expels and kills the creature, a mahr, which can cause illusions and hallucinations. After meeting Deglan, Vesemir wants to become a witcher to leave his life of servitude and poverty. Eventually, he runs away from home and journeys to Kaer Morhen alone. So this is a very, very detailed flashback. And I'm sure it's a lot for us to cover as well. But yeah, we've never really explored the origins of any witcher, other than Geralt's throughout all of the media, and even then it's pretty sparse. Like we hear a little bit about Geralt's childhood in Something More, but that's really about it and like a little bit here and there in Blood of Elves, but there's really not much. So it's pretty cool to, as you said Piotr, like focus on one area like the fall of Kaer Morhen and Vesemir as a character and really flesh out the possibilities for what that journey could have been.

PIOTR: Totally agree. Very nicely show us why the adult Vesemir, I mean, the, the young kind of Vesemir—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

PIOTR: — not the old fat Vesemir, is like he is because of his childhood because of his experience. And of course, we can easily see that Deglan will become a mentor for him and Deglan's view on the world will be somehow shared by Vesemir. And again, we will get to the final when we will see that some things were overdone by Deglan but I really enjoyed it. And I enjoyed that showing us the-- the human side of Vesemir. That he had a childhood, had childhood friends, met probably a love interest, right? He had a family and it also shows us that witchers are humans as well,—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

PIOTR: — in a very clear way that even when he says things like I don't give a shit. You know, we witchers, we do not emotions, we don't care about such human things as you know, as good and evil, is not true. We can see that deep inside he still is this little boy that wants to fulfill some kind of fantasy. To him, this fantasy is to become someone wealthy enough to buy this honey cake every time he wants to do so. So.

ROB: Yeah, I think like you said, Alyssa, we get bits from Geralt, then this is quite a big scene, this flashback. So it's nice to really see properly those sort of humble beginnings of Vesemir. But it all makes sense. You know, he's in this life of poverty and servitude. And you get a sense that throughout all of this, he feels like he's born to do more or maybe deserves to do more. And to a degree, I think resents his father in his station in life and all this sort of thing, especially in one of the final scenes of that flashback where just before he leaves, you know, he sees his father sort of come back to the hut that they all sleep in, and he's like, massaging his feet and stuff. And you can tell that it's like the final straw. It's like, I don't wanna end up like him. There's more to life. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna find it.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And also just Yeah, cool. being introduced to Deglan and just more witchers in general, I think is always a good thing. And I think, you know, as this and even season two, you know, goes on, you know, we'll meet more and more witchers. It's just nice to see that there's more to them. And they're all individual and all different personalities, they're not all the same. They, you know, they're not all like Geralt or what have you. So it's just nice to explore more of that profession—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: — and those types of people in this world, which is really cool. And yeah, I know Deglan sort of comes across to me, as a little bit…there's something, something about him that I'm not sure if you should trust or not sure if you should admire, I think, but I think maybe that's just a witcher thing. I don't know, 'cause he comes across in that alleyway as a little bit, I don't know, it's just something, it's just something,—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: — it's just something. Like—

ALYSSA: You shouldn't be following small children into alleyways—

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: — as a full-grown adult.

ROB: Uh, the, well I mean that as well.

ALYSSA: The optics, think of the optics. Oh, man. We go to the estate and, as you said, we learned that the lady of the house is insane and she's kind of writhing on her bed, she's screaming, she's having these hallucinations. And the lord of the house turns to best nurse father and I didn't put in the whole quote, but one of the things that he says is like "A lesser man would sell your boy." Just because of how incompetent Vesemir seems in this scenario, which is just such an awful thing for someone to say about you or your child and for Vesemir to just have to listen to his father be like, “Yes, sir. You're great, sir. Thank you very much for not selling my boy, sir.” It must be so horrifying to watch your father go through this. And that's just the way that you have to live. But after we move on from that scene, we meet Illyana who was Vesemir's childhood friend. She's adorable, she's got freckles, she's cute, and Vesemir clearly likes her, as we see. Her dream is to have this lake house where she could, like, picnic and drink wine by the water and it's a very luxurious dream that she has. And for both of them that kind of dream, as we said, feels very far off given their station and their lot in life at the moment. Deglan comes to the estate with them and that's where the witchering kind of comes back into the picture. This is a crazy scene and I think again, one that is elevated with the use of animation. Deglan starts to like sprinkle a bunch of stuff around the bed. He says meteorite ore disrupts the demon's magic and starts to conduct some sort of ritual to exorcise the mahr. But Deglan allows Vesemir to stay. There's a number of reasons for this, one to have a second hand there to catch the creature when it comes out of this woman, also to kind of give Vesemir a bit of a taste of a life that he could have. Deglan does the ritual, there's a very terrible shot. It's very alien-like,—

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: — of this woman vomiting up this creature that pushes out of her stomach and chest and then, I thought it was gonna, like, be a full burster but it wasn't, and she eventually vomits up this creature, which kind of looked a bit like a spider. As it's a shapeshifter, that when Vesemir tries to kill it, it turns into Illyana and then starts crawling on the fucking ceiling, and when it goes to jump out the window, Deglan throws a dagger and impales it. And then he says better dead than fled, which just feels a little too humorous for the moment but it's fine. But yeah, but what did you guys think of this ritual and exorcism?

ROB: So I think weirdly, there was a lot of foreshadowing in this scene, right? Probably get into it a bit more later. So I'm not gonna say too much but like you've got Deglan wanting Vesemir to stay to one, yeah obviously get a bit of a taste of the life as it were because also he saw, you know, Vesemir run off with these pieces of fruit or vegetables to distract. So you know, Deglan comes to see a little bit something in him that could be potentially good for witcher recruit, but yeah, like, catch the mahr for me, right? I want it alive if possible. So there's a little bit of foreshadowing there, I think for what, you know, ends up happening a little bit later, which is interesting, he wants to capture this creature, we're not told why, but it wants to capture this creature, right? The fact that when Vesemir didn't manage to catch it, then was running after the spider thing before it ended up turning into Illyana and sort of messing with his mind a little bit. We're also sort of, you know, seeing that like, Deglan says, you know, don't let it get into your mind or something like that. So, you know, we know that witchers can be quite resistant to sort of mind effects and seeing illusions, whereas lesser people or humans or what have you, can be a little bit more susceptible, which again, I think is a little bit of foreshadowing for the end, or one of the final sort of scenes, which we'll get into when we go but I know that might just be me being crazy with my like calculations and stuff. But I'm, I don't know, I thought it was a really– really cool scene, really sort of set of moods, you know, really sort of dark, gritty scene, which was cool. And just cool to see, like, some sort of, like, ritual or exorcism, which was just a bit different to just a monster fight showing that witchers just do a little bit more than just here's my sword, and, you know, fight a thing.

ALYSSA: Wapow!

ROB: Yeah. So yeah, that was it, was just cool. Yeah.

PIOTR: I don't think you're crazy. I think that you're, you know, on point with it, that the foreshadowing thing here is great because if you're watching carefully, then you well, you will still be surprised. But you will be Ahh—

ROB: It all comes together at the end, like yeah.

PIOTR: — Exactly, exactly. But two things that I really loved about the whole scene is that first of all, we can see Deglan working and we can see that he's a very experienced witcher, that to him it's routine, because he, you know, he doesn't really investigate, he just comes in Oh it's a mahr, okay, so I know what to do. And we can see that he's very smart and cunning, the way in which he treats Vesemir in which he shows things to him in which he, you know, talks to him. It shows that Deglan knows that potential recruit who is a volunteer, is a much better recruit than someone you know, just collected from the road and take with you by force to Kaer Morhen. And we can see that later on it really pays off because Vesemir becomes one of his best adepts- best pupils, right? Because he is driven by the need to become someone more. Yeah, someone who he probably believes that he deserves to become so, this was really nicely done. And what you said, the whole ritual for exorcism was really great to show that the witchers do not only slay beasts, but they also have to do some thinking as well, and they have to be pretty knowledgeable to know how to deal with such creatures.

ALYSSA: And I think the thing that you're both alluding to is just how masterfully self-contained the content is. Like, if you're a fan of the books, you're a fan of the games, you're going to be able to catch things. But anything that you need to know if you've never seen or heard of anything about the Witcher before, it's a self-contained enough story that you can follow along, which is pretty cool.

ROB: Yeah, it's just a testament to the writing again, like it's fantastic. Yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And as we kind of like wrap up this flashback, Deglan, as he's leaving tosses Vesemir like two or three coins for helping, out of a huge bag that the lord had given him and I think makes a comment about like, how much do you think your lord paid for a service like this? And Vesemir asks to go with Deglan, but Deglan notices his hesitation and he's like, that's the same hesitation that you had with the mahr too and witchers can't have that. Deglan leaves and this was the scene that you're talking about where Vesemir goes back to the home where they stay with all of the servants of the manor and he sees his father come back and he makes the decision to follow Deglan on his own. So he takes the honey cake they got from the market and hides it under Illyana's bed and leaves. So this flashback ends with Vesemir going to Kaer Morhen on his own, which I have concerns about, just in general, which then transitions again to the present day. Yeah, the thing that stood out to me about that was just like Kaer Morhen is supposed to be a big ole secret like, how did you find it? How did you know where to follow the trail? And how did you get into the mountains of Kaedwen by yourself? With what resources, Vesemir? What resources? But yeah, all of that aside, he makes it to Kaer Morhen eventually.

PIOTR: I think that there's the only explanation because it really bothered me as well that you know, just a small boy just hiked here, but I think the only explanation I think that can be to justify the topic is that maybe because it's you know, just before the fall of Kaer Morhen and it will be decades before Geralt says such a thing—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

PIOTR: — so you know the Kaer Morhen secret, maybe it was you know, more well known, maybe there was some advertisement, something– signs on the road?

ALYSSA: “Come join the Witchers!”

PIOTR: Yes, exactly. Maybe something like that. I don't know but it’s the only explanation, to be honest, because yeah, as you say, it was supposed to be a secret.

ALYSSA: Unless he, like, really followed Deglan there but who knows?

ROB: Yeah, that, that agai,– I'm the same, that's the only thing that I could think of that just like, makes sense for this child to have found this secret witcher fortress in the mountains that are very dangerous. Yes, it is the only explanation.

ALYSSA: Yeah, plot armor, basically. But he makes it that's what's important. He makes it. After the flashback, now an adult Vesemir returns to Kaer Morhen where he meets his fellow witchers and the new recruits and sees a propaganda poster from Tetra Gilcrest. There's this really cool transition of like, you know, Vesemir coming to Kaer Morhen as a child, we then see him looking super proud and very haughty on a horse as the enters Kaer Morhen again. He runs into a couple of his fellow witchers Luka, Sven, who has like a entire cart full of recruits, and then when he's brought in, speaking with Deglan later he's reading this poster from Tetra Gilcrest and the cool thing about this poster is a lot of what's on it actually comes from the books. It comes from I believe Blood of Elves, from Monstrum so it says something along the lines of like witchers are foul and mlewehlwlwe and they suck. That's exactly what Sapkowski wrote in the original Polish.

ROB: That's not at all the TL;DR.

ALYSSA: No. Word for word. That's– that's what was said in Polish.

PIOTR: I can confirm that it is exactly what Sapkowski said.

ROB: Verbatim.

ALYSSA: So he reads this and Vesemir was just like, dude, what is this? And Deglan's like, the boys have been finding these posters everywhere. So there's clearly some sort of propaganda and sentiment that's kind of rising through the country. Deglan then tells Vesemir like, hey, we don't have as many witchers here as we did last year, everyone's gonna have to do their fair share, you're gonna teach fencing because we're down two dozen witchers. The interesting thing that Deglan also says is we're down two dozen witchers, not because they died, but because they found more lucrative work, which is really interesting, and I think adds a little bit more to his motivations as a character, which we'll see throughout the rest of the film. He also says this really ominous line of, like, "A few new beasts would be good for business.", and he stares to the fireplace and it's, like, really ominous. So after seeing the remnants of an attack by a basilisk, Tetra visits Lady Zerbst to try to convince her to appeal to the king to attack witchers. This is like a really short scene, there's like a whole bunch of corpses and she's looking at them and she's analyzing that they must have been from a basilisk and it turns out that Filavandrel is in the crowd briefly and witnesses this before kind of disappearing again, Tetra then goes to Lady Zerbst and threatens her to appeal to the king. So we kind of see that and then we are brought back to Kaer Morhen, where Vesemir is teaching fencing to the new recruits.

PIOTR: Now, this was really well done. And I liked the idea of putting a face to the whole propaganda. There is someone, you know, with an emotional personal connection to the whole thing, that Tetra, because we will, later on, learn about the motivation, right? So I believe that in the source material, the message is that the witchers were killed, mostly because they were different.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

PIOTR: To me, it would be really nice and it's very poetic, and it tells you everything about the human nature, right? But here, for the audience that doesn't really know the source material, the thing that's putting someone is behind it, a proper antagonist, was a good idea because yeah, now we have someone that we know exactly why those things happened and they happened because of someone personally being hurt by witchers. So this was really cool. I like the witcher school thing.

ALYSSA: Mhmm. 

PIOTR: You know, we have the adepts brought in, into the school. It was a really nice thing that Vesemir was like not a very willing teacher, he was just told, okay, so if you want to stay here and you know, get fed and get lodgings here, you have to do something, be useful somehow, so he will teach them fencing. And it's really nice because later on, we can get a glimpse into Vesemir's more humane side. Because it seems that even if he tries to be this really not caring type of a guy, we see that he does care, at least enough to be aware that if he gives the young adepts proper instructions on how to wield a sword, they will probably have better chance to survive what's awaiting them. So—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

PIOTR: — this was really nicely done.

ROB: Yeah, the propaganda stuff. I've literally just remembered that just before that bathtub scene, 'cause it's what the people want. There is a dude outside of that tavern that is just shouting nonsense about witchers.

PIOTR: Yeah.

ROB: — so even then, it's like, you know, we're sort of getting a prelude to how that propaganda is working and making its way out there into the world, giving the common people this idea or this vision of witchers in a negative light. But yeah, it's really cool to see Kaer Morhen alive, busy, and bustling with witchers and new recruits coming in and all that sort of thing, even though Deglan his last two dozen, because of more lucrative work—

ALYSSA: Right.

ROB: — again, more foreshadowing, what more do we love in this film is just more foreshadowing. And yeah, this sort of scene with Tetra as well, as well as more of her just obvious like, disgust for witchers, there's just a lot of classist nonsense as well going on between her and Lady Illyana. You are married into your position, Tetra very much feels that she's better than a lot of people, I think, not just witchers, but also people who are sort of like on her level, like within the council, or what have you, it's very clear as well, starts to become very clear that she seems that she would sort of be up to doing anything that she needs to do for her own gain or to get what she wants or needs,—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: — and we really start to see that with her in this scene, which is cool. And then you know, going forward on to that fencing lesson, you start to, I suppose, see the very early stages of Vesemir becoming the sort of father figure that we see in the end. At the time with that transition starting, I think we start seeing him having this sort of mentality of like, well, we can teach you how to be prepared for what's out there. But it sort of comes across in a sort of like, we can teach you how to be your own man, your own Lord, rather than work for someone else and by their rules, and that sort of thing, which is obviously what Vesemir wanted to do when he was a child. And that's one of the reasons why he left because he thought he deserved better, rather than having a life of servitude the whole time you know, he's become a sort of own boss, as it were. I think he's sort of seeing that you can become someone by what we can do here for you at this school.

ALYSSA: You know, when it comes to Tetra, and Lady Zerbst, it's constantly about station and it is very classist like, she only got her place on the council because her husband died. But since then, you know, she's turned her home into an orphanage and you see all these little children playing outside and it's clear that Lady Zerbst seems to be like a woman of the people to contrast what Tetra is doing and what she's sowing. I think on that note, it's like, we don't really know how long this propaganda has kind of been pushed out into Kaedwen. It really is like, what I'm assuming like slow-moving molasses type propaganda, where it's just like, back in my day, we had to like, stand in a town square and just shout slurs into the streets, and it's like, just fucking get Twitter lady, I don't know. But it's like, like for it to ultimately hit the climactic high that it does at the end of the film, you know, this must have been going on for quite some time, even before the events of the film, like how long has Tetra been holding on to this? How long has she been pursuing this goal of eradicating the witchers? But it just starts to set the scene like why is she so hell-bent on this?

ROB: I suppose we get a hint of it in what Deglan says, because he sort of, you know, says, oh, a few of the boys have come back with this from the path. And, you know, realistically if you sort of know witcher lore, you know that for the most part, they're out there for the whole year, and then they come back to winter. You know, you're not told about a timeline for this propaganda, as you said, so we're not sure how long but you could maybe gather it for last year, at least I guess? I don't know.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: But yeah, it's still not sort of told at all.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we get to the rest of the film, we’re going to take a break here. Next episode, join me, Rob, TheUndeadGamr, and Piotr from Witcher School as we continue our discussion of Netflix’s anime spin-off film, Nightmare of the Wolf.

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Kyle, the H2HOE, Psilocybe Sorcerer, Trevor from the US, and Roxas.

Special thanks to Rob and Piotr for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: Charlie Lim
Editor: John Matthew Sarong, Krizia Marrie Casil

 

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Podcast EpisodeAlyssa EstebanNetflix's Nightmare of the Wolf