Ep. 25 — "Rare Species" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 1)

Rob, TheUndeadGamr, from England joins Alyssa from GoodMorhen for the first half of our discussion of “Rare Species”, the sixth episode in season one of Netflix’s The Witcher. Very important bits include: LARPing around England, reflections on relationships and destiny, health and safety violations, and three mysterious strangers, two hopeless exes, and a Golden Dragon Subtweeting.

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

ALYSSA: And you also host a podcast as well, The Undead Gaming Cast. Could you tell us about that?

ROB: Yeah, absolutely. So, it's a podcast. Like you just said, I've been doing on and off for a while now. But we've been doing it very regularly and will continue to do so. I probably shouldn't say that because then it makes it seem like I'm going to stop doing it any moment.

Introduction

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across The Continent.

[Welcome]

Hope you all have been having a good week. If you’ve been following me on social media, you know that I’ve been eyeballs deep in Charlotte Podcast Festival learning a ton of new things that I’m excited to bring back to the podcast and bring back to you guys in Season 2 and Season 3. I’ve been learning a lot of new techniques in terms of content, storytelling, audio editing, and community building. And really looking forward to implementing them in Season 3, which kicks off in February 2021*.

*THIS IS A MISTAKE, I counted my months wrong. Season 3 of “Breakfast in Beauclair” will premiere in March 2021.

[Patron Announcements]

This week we have a new member of our community to welcome to the company! Welcome Jess S., from Episodes 23 and 24, who joins our hanza on Patreon.

For just $1 per episode, receive an shout out on an episode and access to all of the digital bonus content on Patreon. That’s an extra 2 hours, 56 minutes, and 13 seconds of behind-the-scenes content from the podcast, plus whatever ends up on the cutting room floor from this episode! Bits to look forward to this weekend are more of Rob’s stories from his time in live theater, plus my stories from high school theater. And Rob and I discuss weird pillow talk.

Jess joins our other patrons and Producer-level patrons: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Julie, Sylvia of Skellige, Jamison, Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Jacob Meeks, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, AerialKitty, TheOneTrueChef, Dustin, Chris K. of Kovir, and Libby, The Castel Ravello Sommelier.

If you’d like to explore becoming a patron of the show, head over to patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.

[Community Donation]

Thanks to our patrons, we’re able to donate $1 per patron toward charitable causes throughout the year! At the time of release we have 41 patrons on Patron. Thanks to patrons Jennidy and RedKite for their suggestions for organizations to donate to this quarter! For the last community donation of the year—and in honor of Ciri at the patrons suggestion—I've chosen to donate toward War Child UK, the organization that Anya Chalotra's prop auction supported back in August. Thanks to your support we’ve donated £41, or $53, toward their efforts in providing support to children whose lives have been affected by armed conflict. If you’d like to learn more about the organization, visit warchild.org.uk.

[Episode Details]

As for this episode, Rob, TheUndeadGamr, from England calls in for the first half of Episode 106 “Rare Species” from Netflix’s The Witcher. Join us as we discuss LARPing around England, reflect on relationships and destiny, chat health and safety violations, and three mysterious strangers, two hopeless exes, and a Golden Dragon Subtweeting.

In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares exciting production updates and rumors for Season 2 of Netflix’s The Witcher and beyond.

Without further ado, let’s get to the discussion for The Witcher Episode 106, “Rare Species” (Part 1).

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa and joining us today is Rob, TheUndeadGamr from England. Hey Rob!

ROB: Hey, how's it going?

ALYSSA: I'm good. And yourself?

ROB: Yeah, pretty good.

ALYSSA: Awesome. So, Rob, this is your first time on the show. Do you want to introduce yourself to the hanza?

ROB: Yes. So, hi, guys. I'm Rob. I'm an actor, musician, performer, and streamer. Massive fan of The Witcher. And, yeah, hopefully, here to share some insights of stuff that I think about for the Witcher, which we're prone to come and listen to.

ALYSSA: Awesome. You know, that's exactly why I bring on people onto the show. So glad to hear that you're perfect for it. I'd love to hear more about the kinds of work that you do as an actor and performer.

ROB: Yes. So, I've been an actor, performer professionally for about the last four years or so. So, I'm still, like, really early on in my career. I've had a few, like, pretty cool breaks, mostly sort of theater stuff. And I've done a UK tour. And I did a tour in Italy a couple years ago as well. I’ve done a few short films here and there, some voiceover work, but, fingers crossed for the future, maybe you might even see me in The Witcher, our little show on Netflix. I’m just sort of enjoying sort of early stages in my career and sort of seeing where it goes really.

ALYSSA: So, could you tell us a little bit more about the shows that you've been in, or the kinds of roles that you like to play, or performance that particularly interest you?

ROB: Yeah, of course. So, I'm mostly gearing towards trying to be in sort of, like, TV and sort of film acting just because there's a lot you can do there. And, you know, if you're lucky, make a fairly comfortable living out of it sort of, like, with a regular income. So, that's kind of like the, the goal. But I would love to absolutely be in something that's medieval fantasy or anything like that. You know, swords and sorcery, that sort of thing. So, I'm a massive nerd for that sort of stuff. Yeah, like TV dramas. Anything like that really. So far – so far, not quite happened yet. I've mostly been involved in sort of theater tours that have been run by smaller theatre companies; children's shows and that sort of thing. I've been very, very lucky to be part of, like, big sort of long six months tours that have taken me all over the UK, like I said. And I was really lucky to do one that took me all over Italy as well. You know, even, even in – on, like, the small scale, I've been really lucky so far to have interesting jobs.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: The show's like, obviously, geared towards usually children or families and that sort of thing. So, you know, sort of play a bunch of weird and wacky characters and your slapstick comedy type stuff. Anything and everything in between really, which is real good fun, you know. And there's been music here and there. I play instruments. So, a good skill to bring to the table involving live music and whatnot. It's just been a bit of a ride in that respect, which has been nice sort of on that touring life. At this stage in my career, I'm still early on, like I said. It's kind of like, you know, as long as I'm comfortable with it and I'm up for it, then I'll do anything as it were. You know, if it's a theater job, a TV job, whatever it is, whatever sort of role, if I think I can do it, then I'll absolutely sort of jump on it really.

ALYSSA: Just out of curiosity, because you mentioned you've had some weird and wacky roles in the past. And I think, on top of that, one of the most beautiful things about a theater experience is that it's live. It is that no two shows really are the same.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Do you have any, like, interesting stories or interesting, like, nights from one of those performances where either things are particularly good or things went particularly awry?

ROB: Like – oh, man. Usually with like theater stuff, sometimes, you get away with little things just go in – go in one night and maybe you forget a line or maybe one of your colleagues or fellow actors sort of forgets their line and you sort of cover for each other. And, so, you've got each other's back.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: But there's – there's definitely been occasions where something big goes wrong and then everything else after that is prone to also go wrong.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: If you can just recover through that, I think it's just like a team thing really. You just sort of rely on each other to – you've got each other's back.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And, if something really goes wrong, then usually someone's there to just, like, pick up the pieces and get you going again.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: In one of the shows I was doing, one of the characters I was playing was, like, a mad scientist sort of dude. And I'd spill a substantial amount of water on stage accidentally. And, in the zone, I just instantly took off my lab coat, threw it on the floor to try and soak it up, and then started sort of jumping up on it, up and down, to try and, like, get it to soak. I was, like, fully – I was just in the character, I think. And I saw the, the girl that I was on stage with at the time just trying her best not to laugh at all of this going on. Keep a straight face and just sort of keep the scene moving.

ALYSSA: Right.

ROB: You know, this absolute nonsense was just transpiring before her and the audience.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And, after the show, she was like, “What the hell was that? What happened there?” And I was like, “I don't know. It seemed right at the time. It made sense to just try and get rid of this water as quick as we can.” Because normally, like, shows just stop. If something like that sort of goes wrong and is like danger to the actors—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —shows generally sort of stop after the scene and then they get cleared – stuff like that get, gets cleared away. But I didn't even think that. I just was like, “No, I've got to deal with this now. Got to deal with this.” But I did it in character. I did it in character. So, you know—

ALYSSA: That's amazing. Oh, my god.

ROB: Doing the same show, you know, again, and again, and again, sometimes, you sort of do things to try and freshen up a little bit.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Maybe you, you’ll change your line. I think actors always have this thing, especially when you're, like I said, doing the same show day in, day out --

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —sometimes twice, maybe three times a day, you try and have a little bit of fun with it. There's definitely been occasions with, like, my, you know, fellow actors where I've tried to purposely say something that I know would – will make them laugh or make them – what we say is corpse on stage where you basically uncontrollably laugh. It kind of stops the show a little bit, but it's – you know, just – it's a good challenge to not laugh when something sort of goes wrong or something weird has been said. And, so, you know, it’s just a little thing that actors sort of do just with each other to – you know, just a bit of fun.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: It's a total, like, dick move. But it's – it – you know, it always makes things a little bit more interesting – a bit more fun.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And it definitely brightens up the experience, I think, and just like builds camaraderie. Like, I think that's one thing about theater. It’s that it always feels like family.

ROB: Absolutely.

ALYSSA: There is a beautiful community experience to it for everyone involved and then you get to share that every night with an audience. So, something else that you happen to mention—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —as you were giving your introduction, was that, you know, you'd be interested in acting in science fiction or fantasy. And you do do that to an extent and the capacity. I don't know what these are called. Like, I don't know enough about it. Do you mind telling us about your character and the way in which you do that?

ROB: Yeah, absolutely. At the moment, it’s the closest I'm ever going to get to, to playing characters like that. So, I, I grab – I grab it as much as I can. But, yeah, so, I've been LARPing for about eight years now or so. You've had a guest on before talk about it.

ALYSSA: Yes.

ROB: So, it’s live-action role-play. In a sense, it's just basically sort of big Improv theater almost. It's generally got a storyline, but it's sort of like an open and fluid storyline that is influenced and affected by the players, and the player decision, and how the players drive the story. There's, yeah, lots of different systems all over the world. The UK’s first and only Witcher LARP called the Northern Kingdoms started more recently in 2018, which is a system that sort of goes about all over the UK. They pick different sites to do these weekend events. I'm lucky enough to play a witcher in that system, which is really cool because there's limited player slots to play a witcher. And I play a witcher from the Bear School called Baldur. So, living my best life as a witcher.

ALYSSA: You do have videos or I think there are videos from the Northern Kingdom site—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —where you do an interview with them. And we can actually see you fully dressed in costume. I'll definitely link it in the show notes.

ROB: Yeah, thank you.

ALYSSA: My dad has already seen this video.

ROB: Shout out to your dad.

ALYSSA: I did show my dad this video because he was curious about what LARPing was—

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: —and what LARPing as a witcher was. So, I showed it to him. So, I'll definitely share it with the rest of the community and the listeners as well. So, we did have Louisa on, who was on Episodes 12 and 13, talking about A Little Sacrifice. And she did tell us a little bit about the LARPing community in Germany, obviously, without spoilers. I don't really know how these things work. But could you tell us a little bit more about, like, what the Northern Kingdom’s storyline is or what the LARPing community in the UK is like?

ROB: Simon Deacon, who runs Northern Kingdoms, contacted not only CD Projekt RED, who obviously made the video games but also the witcher School in Poland. And we are kind of connected in sort of like partnership as it were. So, that's cool. But, yes – yeah, as far as I know, the, the witcher school in Poland is kind of set, like, way before the books when sort of the witchers are just starting out. So, everything's really new. Everything's really fresh. But the Northern Kingdoms has decided to sort of take the timeline just before The Witcher 3 video game. So, just as the third Nilfgaardian war is kicking off basically. The premise of the player base is the Free Company. They came about and did stuff during the second Nilfgaardian war. And, now that the third war has kicked off in this timeline of the LARP game, the Free Company has come together once again to invite any and all people who want to fight in the war on behalf of the Free Company and maybe make some money out of it or whatever your motivations are. You can play anyone from the sort of Northern Kingdoms. Go against the Nilfgaardians. They are the enemy.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: So, you can play a person from the Redania and Temeria, whoever it is, whatever it is. Whether that's a warrior of some sort, a knight, a bard, a sorceress or a sorcerer, or, in my case, a witcher.

ALYSSA: Huh.

ROB: Yeah, it's kind of open to anything. He's basing things off of – obviously, off of the lore and the story—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —using elements from The Witcher 3 in the timeline of the LARP game. We're under the assumption the Geralt just proceeded with trying to find Ciri.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Left everything else behind, didn't play Gwent, didn't do any of the other nonsense. He just went and found Ciri, which kind of opens it up for us to maybe do some elements that were, like, side quests in the game, which is pretty cool or have those elements involved in the storyline and stuff like that. But, yeah, it's – it’s been really, really cool. So far, like, the events have taken us from the Pontar, where we were on the front line. We moved over to Skellige to do some stuff. And, now, we're on our way to Toussaint—

ALYSSA: Aww.

ROB: —very soon and whenever the next event is, yeah, to like do, do some stuff and trying to harken into the, the Blood and Wine expansion, where you've got the tournament in Beauclair.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Really, really looking forward to that. But, yeah, I just basically go there. I play a witcher called Baldur, like I said, from the Bear School. And I pick up contracts and fight monsters and try and live my best life. And it's – it’s awesome.

ALYSSA: Oh, that's cool. I mean there's a whole bunch of stuff and discussions of that. So, for listeners, if I'm remembering this correctly, the Free Company, we do hear about it a little bit in the saga.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And I do believe that it's mostly in Lady of the Lake. So, if you haven't read the books yet or if you haven't gotten through the saga yet, you'll definitely get to see the Free Company and be with them in Lady of the Lake.

ROB: Yeah. So, so, those characters actually have appeared in the LARP game as non-player characters. So, the people that run it fill in well, fleshing out characters basically. So, yeah, you know, sort of getting us kick started as the Free Company, which is really, really cool.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Fringilla Vigo has appeared.

ALYSSA: Aww.

ROB: [Inaudible 14:32], obviously, from Skellige. We met, which is really, really cool. Yeah. So – and it's nice as well that the, the crew that are behind it, they really put their all into playing these characters and trying to represent them.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Not just realistic way, but in a way that you'd hope they're portrayed from the books or from the games or whatever. They, they try and stay true to the source material as it were.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Even the people that are forced into the drama suits and the [Inaudible 14:54] suits and stuff like that—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —do a really, really good job of becoming those characters to make you feel like you're in a – you know, in a dangerous situation and stuff like that, which is really, really cool. The rites and stuff that I've fought gets really intense sometimes.

ALYSSA: Huh.

ROB: It's – it’s really weird how you can just be – you know, put this costume on. You’re involved in this situation. You've got all these characters and people dressed in these costumes around you. And you just get so invested and so involved and you just sort of lose yourself in this world. And, you know, forget about Facebook or Twitter or whatever it is. You know, your, your job or whatever it is that’s going on. And you just get immersed in this situation – in this world. And it's just – yeah, it's really, really great to just live out. Just to let loose and enjoy and be someone else for a bit.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Louisa said the same thing on her episodes. It was almost like, yeah, she just completely forgot about her regular life. And then there would be that period of, like, assimilating again—

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: —back into her normal life.

ROB: Yeah, I connected so much with that episode because everything Luisa was saying was, was spot on.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Because you just do. Like, I literally go away and I turn off my phone for the entire weekend. I'm literally there to forget everything, get involved, and just lose myself in this situation.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And, you know, just really throw everything into it and just enjoy and experience it as, as authentically as I can, I guess.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Which sounds really weird and really strange, but you do. You just get so wrapped up. And, even emotionally, you know, I've cried in situations a lot before because I've been so emotionally invested or I’ve become like, you know, really angry. You have to check yourself sometimes because you're – you know, this is all still make believe and stuff. But, you know, it just comes out in sort of the role-play and the acting that you're doing really. Yeah. You can get very emotionally invested and drained from it.

ALYSSA: Oh, yeah.

ROB: And, like Louisa said, like, you do have to readjust a little bit. After the event, you're leaving that world and coming back into the real world. But there's all these situations that have happened to you, you know, that you've experienced and you've gone through. And you've got to process those, you know.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: But, hey, you know, you gotta get up at seven o'clock the next morning and go to work or whatever. So, it's—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: You know, yeah, it's – it’s weird. But, you know, I wouldn’t change it for the world.

ALYSSA: Yeah. You know, that's one of the things I think about this community in general and what events like this do for people in this community; how to engage people, how to make them feel involved.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: And, obviously, there's something for everyone, which makes me really happy and that there's communities for people to gravitate toward as well.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: So, if you're in the UK or if you're like UK adjacent or willing to travel, definitely check out the Northern Kingdoms LARP. I believe they do have like a Facebook page, maybe a website.

ROB: Yeah, absolutely.

ALYSSA: And I'll also link it in the show notes as well.

ROB: It's literally bought people from not only all over the UK, but, yeah, like you said, adjacent countries. We, we have people from Spain that are involved in the game that come over, Ireland as well. But I, I've met people who are also part of the LARP community – of the Witcher LARP community in Germany as well who have got, like, really amazing costumes and, like, such an awesome thing. And, you know, there's so much support and so much for everyone to get involved with. You know, no matter what your background is, or who you are, or whatever it is, like, LARP has got benefits for everyone and anyone. Whether it's a case of you want to try a witcher LARP, Northern Kingdoms, or whatever it is, or, you know, just something more generic fantasy or – I don’t know – steampunk, or science fiction, or zombie apocalypse, whatever it is. You know, there is a system or a game out there for absolutely everyone. Big, small, you name it. You can find something that will suit you and fit what you want to play. And it's, you know, just really welcoming and supportive, like I said. Yeah, it's just a really, really, really awesome, awesome thing. And it's worldwide as well. So, you know, I follow people that LARP in Australia, the US, like, all over. It's – it's insane.

ALYSSA: Having a global movement is like, “Yeah. That's – that's the dream, right?”

ROB: Absolutely.

ALYSSA: It's really beautiful to see that happen. So, I’d just like to turn the conversation quickly over to the work that you're doing personally, your Twitch stream and your podcast.

ROB: Yeah, absolutely. So, I've been sort of involved with YouTube and Twitch content since, like, 2013. I stream most days of the week. And it's just something that I can do on my own time that allows me to, to perform to a degree and just play video games, which I absolutely love and adore. And, yeah, performance people but also be involved in a community of people that watch me and watch the games I'm playing. And we’re sort of sharing, sharing the experience, I suppose.

ALYSSA: And you also host a podcast as well, The Undead Gaming Cast.

ROB: Yeah, absolutely. So, we've been doing the Undead Gaming Cast for a while now. And it is just a monthly gaming podcast that me and my buddy, Singularity Josh. Oh, that’s his – that’s his – that’s his handle on the internet. And we, we talk about video games, the industry, and stuff and things; what we've been playing, what we've been up to, what games we've been enjoying, news topics of the month. We will sort of talk about and discuss and share our opinions on them and all that sort of thing. So, it's just kind of a nice community feel—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —of just gamers talking about video games. And that, hopefully, people can just, you know, relate to and enjoy. We also do that live on Twitch on the last Tuesday of every month. And then it goes out as a VOD on YouTube and then audio form on Apple Podcast and Spotify and all the places. So, lots of ways to watch it. It's really cool.

ALYSSA: That's awesome. Yes. So, if anyone in the community would like to follow Rob, check out the Undead Gaming Cast anywhere, I guess.

ROB: The best place to be would be twitch.tv/theundeadgamr. That’s has gamer without the E, but I'm sure you put links, I suppose, in places.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And we'll also have another streamer two episodes from now, much more. We'll be speaking with Tracy Mismatch tech and getting her perspective on streaming as well. So, it's really cool to see, like, obviously, you and Louisa have, like, similar experiences when it comes to LARPing. And then we'll be able to see, like, multiple approaches to streaming as well, which is really exciting.

ROB: It's – it’s insane because, even – like we were saying earlier about the LARP community, even this hanza, this little community or, I suppose, growing every day, this is the community that have come to listen to this awesome podcast. You know, there's so, so much crossover of people just being interested in not just the Witcher, but it's like, “What else do you do? You know, you're a LARPer. You know, your stream on Twitch or whatever it is.” It's – Yeah, it's – it's amazing. The sort of spider webs, you know, extend out to communities all over, just connecting. And it's all just because this one thing, which is, yes, it's awesome. You've done an awesome thing. Not to like sort of fanboy over you – over you and your podcast, but it's just such a great podcast. And it's been a delight to not just listen to as people who are interested in The Witcher and the books and whatnot. But just how the community, like, every episode, it just grows and grows and grows and grows. And all these people that are of like mind. And just because of this one little thing called The Witcher, you know, just come together just to sort of share in this awesome fandom. And it's – yeah, it's just – I, I think communities like this are just wonderful.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: You know, it's always nice to sort of find your tribe as it were and find people that are of like mind and like the same things that you like. And then you can just, you know, do what we're doing in this podcast and just totally nerd out about it and fan, fanboy, fangirl, fan whoever over it.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And, yeah, it's just – it's just a wonderful, wonderful thing, thing to be a part of, I think.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think that was the cool thing about doing this. I've like tried my hand at making content before. But the work became a lot more purposeful when it was attached to a community that I believed in. A community that I could actively contribute to, which is what has made Breakfast in Beauclair and GoodMorhen as well so incredibly rewarding.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: The very first episode of Season 2, “The End’s Beginning”, just came out two days ago. It's currently Saturday, June 6th. And, last night, we passed 25,000 downloads on.

ROB: Wow.

ALYSSA: Which is crazy to me. Like, obviously, that's still quite small for a podcast. It's far exceeded my expectations. And it's been such a journey with everyone. And I've been really grateful to be able to do it.

ROB: Absolutely. Even like the silly little things, you know, the start or the end of your podcast that – where you’re talking about the new patrons that you've had. And, obviously, that, that list grew and grew and grew—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —to the point where you had to sort of like speed that section up where you were just saying them really, really fast. I was like, “Oh.” You know, it’s – it’s – it is growing.

ALYSSA: I don’t speed that up. I say it that fast.

ROB: Do you not? Oh, my god.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I say it that fast.

ROB: Alyssa.

ALYSSA: I – okay. When I did it for the opening episode of Season 2, the one that just went out—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —I sat there and I recorded the outro. And I actually did it faster than I needed to and I didn't have to slow it down, but I had to add spaces into it. But, if you listen to Episode 16, “The End’s Beginning”, and you listen to my outro at the end, I'm actually speaking that fast. And I,  I surprised myself by doing that.

ROB: Oh, wow. Well, there – there you go. There you go. Behind the scenes look at Breakfast in Beauclair.

ALYSSA: Maybe one day I'll have to speed it or I'll have to kindly ask the people who have made the music for the show MojoFilter Media to give me a looped version that I could just play forever. Today, we'll be discussing Rare Species, the Sixth Episode Netflix's first season of The Witcher. This episode adapts Andrzej Sapkowski’s short story, The Bounds of Reason from Sword of Destiny in which Geralt joins the dragon hunting party with his old flame, Yennefer. In the present, Nilfgaard’s attempt to capture Ciri, the Cintran Princess, backfires. In Geralt and Yennefer’s storyline, The Witcher, sorceress, and Jaskier, the Bard, meet again, this time, on a dragon hunt. We get the introduction through Jaskier who's composing his newest ballad, which we'll learn about throughout the episode. And Jaskier and these two town’s men are waiting outside of a cave for Geralt. They attempt to steal the witcher’s belongings, but they're stopped by an old man and his companions. The man, Borch, asks Geralt to join him on King Niedamir’s hunt for a dragon and Geralt rejects the offer until Yennefer arrives.

ROB: I really like how this opens up this episode. That song – and I’ll probably say it again. That song is still my, my absolute favorite song out of the whole series personally.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: But, yeah, it's just really nice to see the sort of early workings of that song and how it sort of opens up all quiet picturesque. And, yeah, the two guys just waiting for Geralt to come out before thinking, “Ah, he's dead. We're just going to steal this stuff then.”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And Jaskier trying to handle the situation, probably feeling quite unequipped to do that.

ALYSSA: It's like the worst guard dog.

ROB: Absolutely.

ALYSSA: It's like having a Pomeranian as a guard dog. Like, really, really fancy but not very useful.

ROB: And I just love that he's like, you know, “Does that sound good, gorgeous garroter? Like, is that – you know, what do you guys think? Is that too much?” Like, it's like they are not listening to you, my guy. And they do not care.

ALYSSA: Oh, man. I think it's a nice scene to see multiple characters.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: Seeing these people who have no, I guess, respect for Geralt.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And then how Jaskier doesn't handle it. And then what happens when these, you know, three new characters, Borch, Téa, and Véa step in. They are like no characters that we've seen before in the series. So, they stand out quite a bit. So, as I said earlier, it's June 6th right now. On April 24th, comicbook.com did a quarantine watch party on Twitter with the director, Charlotte Brändström, Lauren Hissrich, Matt D'Ambrosio as well as the writer for this episode, Hailey Hall. So, we got to hear a lot of behind-the-scenes facts and tidbits about the way that the episode was done in production. In this quarantine watch party, Lauren Hissrich, the showrunner, did mention that this wasn't the original opening for this episode. She mentioned Charlotte Brändström and her went back and forth a couple of times in the edit bay about how the episode would start. And, apparently, they had considered showing Yennefer and Geralt’s relationship between Episode 5, Bottled Appetites, and Episode 6, Rare Species. So, we were going to, you know, get some sort of montage of their relationship. So, that was, apparently, one of the original ideas that they changed and they went just straight into the story.

ROB: That montage, was that use later or was it not filmed at all?

ALYSSA: Like, parts of it were used later. Yeah.

ROB: Sure. Yeah. So, during that tent scene as it were?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Okay. I think that would have been interesting, but I think how we opened up was more than adequate—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —especially, as like you said, we, we see elements of that, which we do later anyway because there is a montage in that tent scene—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —much later on in the episode, I think, if you're sort of familiar with the story, as most of us are anyway, it's probably safe to assume that we understand that Geralt and Yennefer always have a bit of a rocky relationship anyway and that was on and off.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: It may have been relatively confusing for people who are just watching the show or new to the show, new to The Witcher in general through the show. But I think it was a nice opening—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —and introduction to the story to sort of really just throw ourselves straight into the Bound of Reason, you know, story basically.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And, you know, it started relatively similar to the, the book anyway, minus a fair few characters. You know, it was—

ALYSSA: Right.

ROB: —very minimalistic in its approach. And I think that's a bit of a theme throughout this adaptation that it was – it’s fairly minimal.

ALYSSA: Mhmm. And we'll definitely get to, you know, talk about comparisons of books on the second half of the Episode 2. It's interesting. Like, in these opening scenes, like, we go with Borch, Geralt, Téa, Véa, and Jaskier, we're, like, getting a big party.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: And we moved to a tavern scene where Borch is now telling Geralt why he's looking for him. So, it turns out that Borch has been signed on to hunt for a dragon for King Niedamir. And, apparently, the person will be given the reward from the dragon as well as become Lord of one of Niedamir’s vassal estates. Borch is one of the teams that are going out for this. And there are three others; dwarves, which are being headed by Yarpen Zigrin, the Reavers, which we don't know much about. But, when we see them in this opening sequence, they're just groping women and that's kind of our impression of them at the start.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: And then the last team that's there is Yennefer and this knight, Eyck. Geralt is saying no the whole time. He's like, “I don't want to do this. I don't kill dragons. No.” And he's really giving Borch nothing to work with. And then he sees Yennefer. And there are all these memes on the internet where, as soon as he sees Yennefer, it just says, “Fuck, man.”

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Do you have, like, any thoughts on, on some of these opening sequences?

ROB: The tavern scene, in general, the way – already we’re introduced to Borch and Téa and Véa, who – I think the casting for these three was amazing. All three of them did a fantastic job.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Borch being sort of, like, very welcoming, and warm, and lovely. And Téa and Véa being very ominous and mysterious. And, yeah, just badass. Just totally bad – like, still won't be necessary. I'm like, “Uh, huh, tell me more.” Yeah, the whole sort of tavern scene, I think, is very nicely filmed. And the way you sort of follow them all through the tavern when they get to their seat where you see some of the Reavers by the door and they're all looking thuggish and ominous. And you get a really good picture of who all of these characters are when you’re introduced. Yarpen asking for that ale.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Amazing.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: You just get some really perfect snapshots without any sort of dialogue from those characters of who these people are and who we might be up against in this sort of dragon hunt as it were. Then, yeah, obviously, the introduction of Eyck and Yennefer, which gets Geralt interested in coming along.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Like you said, they changed the introduction to this episode. But I think, even that alone, just Geralt and Yennefer's eye contact in that moment. No dialogue. Just that eye contact that they shared in that scene when, you know, she walks in, that instantly sort of says that there's some history here. They've not seen each other in a while. They're shocked to see each other here. Like, stuff’s about to go down.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: I just think it's a really nice scene. And the way also Borch rounds everything up.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: In the story in the book, you kind of get a little bit later on. And I think most of is from Dandelion, I feel or Jaskier, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. Yeah, it's nice that you get like a nice synopsis that’s straight then and there, which really just – it seemed like, within the first five or 10 minutes of the show as well – of the episode where it's just like, “Yeah, we know exactly where this is going. We know exactly what we're doing. Like, let's get on to the – to the meat of things.” It doesn't mess around.

ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. It definitely drops in the viewer quick into the situation. And then orients the viewer a bit—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —by, as you said, like, detailing who these people are and what's about to happen, but it does happen very fast.

ROB: Mhmm. 

ALYSSA: Like, we're like four minutes into the episode.

ROB: And already he's laid, laid out everything he wants. I've been looking for you for this reason. This is going on. Come and help me. These are the other guys. Let's go. Are you in?

ALYSSA: Exactly. And then his ex gets thrown in there and then everything goes to shit.

ROB: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

ALYSSA: Can you imagine just like running into your ex like pre-cell phones? Like, that must be the worst. That must be the absolute worst.

ROB: Literally, yeah. And especially just with the professions that the two of them have, it's like there's an entire continent. There's an entire continent that you could be. And the chances of you seeing each other, like you said, pre-cell phones or whatever it is, in a massive continent and you still wind up in the same little tavern, in the same little town, same little part of the world. What are the odds? That's fate and destiny for you.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, at this point, the hunting party sets off on the path the following morning. They have a lot of conversations. Jaskier talks to Téa and Véa. Borch has a conversation with Geralt about Yennefer. And then, eventually, Jaskier wanders into the bramble looking for, you know, a snack for Téa and Véa, because he's so charming, and is confronted by a monster, Hirikka, which Eyck cuts down savagely. The whole kind of outset of this hunt, really interesting. We get to meet Yarpen, who’s played by Jeremy Crawford who's a member of our hanza.

ROB: Shout out to you, dude. Fantastic job. Fantastic job.

ALYSSA: And then we really see the first interaction of Geralt and Yennefer. Whoa. And it's heavy. It is heavy.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: As both Rob and I have said, it's like they're seeing each other for the first time in who knows how many years. For people who haven't read the books yet, they know that it's tense if anything. So, that is something that we’ll continue to kind of unpack throughout the episode, but it's a little bit tender.

ROB: Yeah, that – look, aside from the previous scene, this little interaction that the two of them have with the horses just really sets in stone where they're at and I suppose the anger that they have towards each other. But I don't – I don’t know how to describe it. I think – I think they’re – they're both sort of angry at each other, with the situation, with themselves, with how they treat each other. And I supposed fight – they fight the true feelings that they have, I guess.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: They definitely left things in a rocky place. And I suppose, with them not having seen each other for years, which is evident, that has, no doubt, built up, and built up, and built up, and built up. And then they see each other in the same place, same little tavern, into the same little part of the world. And it probably just boils over a little bit in, in that moment. So, they've just got to snipe at each other, I suppose.

ALYSSA: I know. And we do know that it's been years because there's a brief exchange between Jaskier and Yennefer in which she just turns to him and says, “The crow's feet are new.” And it’s just—

ROB: Savage.

ALYSSA: Ah, just a little bit scathing. Yeah. Jaskier finds a monster. Eyck, who's been like a little bit weird, he just seems a little odd in a religious sense. 

ROB: “For kingdom and glory.”

ALYSSA: “For kingdom and glory.” Yeah. They run into this monster, which Geralt says is harmless and starving. And Eyck just cuts it down senselessly and everyone's just like, “What the fuck?”

ROB: That scene was, from start to finish, I thought was fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. So funny. And then, for that brutality to happen—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —I’m just like in shock. Like actual shock watching it. But I think it's really interesting because it is definitely in this scene that we really see the changes, I suppose, that they've made to Sir Eyck of Denesle.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And he's very vastly different from the book—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —in this adaptation. He's still got the sort of religious zealousism that he has in the book. And he's very, very serious about what he does. And, you know, he’s very committed to knightly virtues and whatnot.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: He's definitely made to seem very young, naive, a little bit foolish—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —and too eager. You know, he's like, “I'm a knight. I must do knightly things because I'm a knight.”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: It doesn't come across well as we can see when he savagely cuts down a harmless creature that Geralt said, “We just give him some food. He would have gone away.”

ALYSSA: Yeah. You know, it's funny that you say you love this scene because, like, it's not that I didn't like it.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: Not that I hated it either. It's just like it creeped me out on a very visceral level.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: There was something about the monster I think. The scene cuts straight to a shot of its decapitated head.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And it's like, “Agh.” It's one of those things that I was just like, “This doesn't sit right with me.” And I, like – I've said on previous episodes of the podcast that I just can't stomach gore like this.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: So, there's just something about it that, like, left me with, like, a dry mouth.

ROB: You know, those two connecting scenes perfectly captures, I think, personally, Sapkowski’s sense of humor.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Reading The Witcher, some of it is very, very funny. But then it’s preceded or it’s followed by something very, very harsh and very savage. And then we're instantly sort of brought back to the darkness of the world. There's definitely no, no punches held in that. And I think, even with something that's, you know, quite funny, quite charming, Jaskier going off to find some lunch for these lovely ladies. And then this monster just being savagely taken out and, you know, head on a spike.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: You know, stuff like that really does quite well capture Sapkowski’s work and the feel of, of the world in general.

ALYSSA: Yeah, because I think that there definitely are absurdist elements in his writing—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —throughout the short stories in the saga. You know, the silliness of the show, I think, definitely surprised some people—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —who were expecting, you know, like Game of Thrones.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: There's a lot of, like, grim and dark fantasy that's out in the world right now. So, it's interesting to see something that is still fantasy but that doesn't take itself, you know, so remarkably seriously.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: In the next scene, as I said, we kind of do like a smash cut to this decapitated Hirikka head. We're now around the campfire with the hunting party. Boholt threatens the dwarves, The Witcher, and Yennefer. Boholt is one of the Reavers and the rest of them kind of have a conversation. They're just kind of chit chatting. Eventually, Eyck who had ate something foul from the Hirikka gets a bit of a stomach ache and then goes to leave the camp. And, by morning, he's dead.

ROB: This whole scene unpacks like a hell of a lot, not just about – like, more about the characters and what they're doing but the world’s state as well—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —which is really, really nice. We definitely get more of a feeling of when this story happens in the sort of grand timeline or grand tapestry—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —of the series, which is really nice.

ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. So, some of the information that we get from this comes from Yarpen. Yarpen tells the group about Nilfgaard’s conquests. He's telling the group that, you know, Nilfgaard is blazing through. They're going to get to Sodden soon. And then they'll go through Redania and Temeria. Borch just says to the group and then he, like, sub tweets Yennefer in there. He says that there should have been someone with a stronger hand to temper Nilfgaard’s religious zeal. And, at that point, she just excuses herself.

ROB: I think – I think Borch is wonderfully portrayed by Ron Kirk in this episode. Like, absolutely wonderfully.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: When he – when he says that to the group – but, obviously, you know, really saying it to Yennefer.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: There's something knowing about the way he says it, you know. And, obviously, that, that becomes sort of clear. It’s a dragon and they know stuff.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: But, yeah, there's something just sort of very wise and knowing about the way he says it, but without outright saying that it should have been you, Yennefer, or, you know, whatever.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: He doesn't sort of outright say it, which, you know, he still keeps the mystery about it, which is very, very nice --

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —in that scene.

ALYSSA: The scene I think is just beautiful as well as it's been shot. Something that came out of that quarantine watch party was that Lauren actually said that this fireside scene was shot in broad daylight and their colorist, Jet, had to work really hard to make it look like dusk, which is pretty cool. Just like the atmosphere of it, I think, does feel very intimate despite the hostility that's in the scene.

ROB: Yeah, absolutely. There's – there’s definitely fractions in the party as it were. There's definitely, you know, two camps really.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: The Reavers and then everyone else. And it's nice that, even though there's an element of competition in what they're doing to slay this dragon for King Niedamir—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —there's still an element of camaraderie between everyone else, you know, minus the Reavers, which is nice and which – yeah, like you said, we definitely see them just sort of hanging about chillin’, chatting, making jokes, and sitting around the campfire, and talking about world politics. It's really nice to see the actors that they chose to play the dwarves.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Usually in fantasy and, you know, especially during the 80s, people who were cast in those types of roles were comic relief and jokey characters and weren't taken seriously. It's really nice to see representation being taken seriously now.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Those guys did an absolutely fantastic job. You know, that – they are actors.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And they did a wonderful job with what they were doing. So, nice to see that.

ALYSSA: Mhmm. Yeah, absolutely. At least, for me, I think it was unexpected. You know, we've gotten, I think, used to seeing a very particular kind of characterization of dwarves in pop culture. So, you think Gimli from Lord of the Rings.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Like, that, that's the default. So, it's interesting to see, you know, different kind of characterization here in both the actors and the way that their storyline is handled. I'm really curious to see if we're going to get more non-humans throughout the course of the series. Contention between humans and nonhumans is a really big part of The Witcher saga as a whole.

ROB: Yeah, I know. Absolutely. I’m – I too am looking forward to that. This is gonna be great to see how they're portrayed. So, like I said earlier, they've really seemed to have minimalized some of the elements of the story and sort of taken away certain characters and given you, I suppose, the, the ones that are most relevant to the story at, at its – at its core bones.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: It was interesting to see, especially in this camp scene, how they all interact with each other. In the book, there was a lot of sort of hatred and disgust thrown at Yennefer's way—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —from kind of everyone really. It's interesting to see that there wasn't that much. I think they, they view each other as sort of worthy opponents or competition, but there's no sort of hatred being slung around between, like I say, the dwarves and Yennefer. And, you know, there’s a little bit between the Reavers, but, you know, they're not nice people. But I thought that was very, very interesting that that's one thing that they definitely changed along with, you know, Sir Eyck being quite different in his portrayal.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: They very much changed how Yennefer was seen to everyone else in this adaption.

ALYSSA: Yeah, they ended up changing the Reavers as well—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —because the Reavers were the ones who, like, had a camaraderie with the group. It wasn't Yennefer.

ROB: Yeah, that's true.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: So, I think we'll get a chance to, you know, talk about the characterization of those individual characters later on. So, in the morning, Yennefer can’t find Eyck. And it turns out that, as he, you know, relieved himself from whatever he ate the night before, someone killed him. So, he's found with his pants down at the bottom of a ravine. The group though has to continue to march on. As they continue, Yarpen proposes an alternate route to the dragon, splitting up from the Reavers. Geralt confronts Yennefer about her purpose here. And it turns out that she wants the dragon to cure her infertility. At the same time, Yennefer now learns about Geralt’s child of surprise. This is also a very heavy scene.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: We get a second round of dialogue between Geralt and Yennefer. And its contents are much deeper than their first conversation. And it talks about, you know, like, a lot of their individual insecurities and their fears.

ROB: Yeah, like, absolutely. Like you said, there's a lot here that happens. This is where we really start to see some of their issues be unpacked, I suppose, with each other. And, you know, getting to the bottom of why, why everyone's involved in this. It's – it’s a shame because I think we see – we see Yennefer open up to Geralt here a little bit—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —where she, you know, makes it clear that she's after this dragon because it's an infertility cure. And I'm just sitting there like, “Geralt, don't. Oh, why did you react like that?” He just sort of, like, laughs at her. You, a mother? It's like – oh, it's not – that's not it, man. That's not it.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: It's such a shame because there she is kind of opening up to him. And, you know, the two of them remained always guarded with each other. And, you know, when they open up – they’re very closely guarded with each other. And it's not often they open up to each other. When they do, it, it doesn't always – it doesn't always go down well—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —with the other person. Yeah, I just thought this was quite a sad scene because also we see much more development now with, with Yennefer. And she's got to a stage in her life where she's looking back on her past decisions. And, while she may not 100 percent regret, you know, becoming a sorceress and becoming this independent woman that she's become, there's certain elements of this – her sacrifice that she, she definitely regrets.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And we – you know, we definitely get to see more insight into how both of them, Geralt and Yennefer, feel about, you know, Geralt becoming a witcher. It wasn't his choice. Yennefer becoming a sorceress. It wasn't her choice. And we start to really unpack these things. Really, these professions, things that they do on a daily basis aren't as cracked up as they're meant to be or seem, you know.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: They’re not as noble or as wonderful as they may look. And, you know, him accidentally sort of dropping that, “Oh, my child of surprise, I'd rather use it as Bruxa bait.”

ALYSSA: I know. How dumb.

ROB: Yeah. Like, you're – you’re just saying all the wrong things, my guy.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: It’s – I really, really feel for Yennefer here because she's really opening up to Geralt and he's not dealing with it in the best way – in a supportive way.

ALYSSA: No, that's a really excellent way of putting it. Obviously, given their histories, it's understandable that they're not really sure what to do with this vulnerability—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —and how to share it with each other. But it reads as being a horribly tone deaf and awkward.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Watching this, there's so much secondhand embarrassment talking about the scene again. You know, maybe not when I was watching it, but definitely talking about it again. It's like, “Why would you do that?” You know, hearing about why Yennefer wants to do this, she wants this dragon in order to cure her infertility, which was taken away from her at Aretuza.

ROB: Her choice, I think she refers to it as.

ALYSSA: Yeah, we saw this again in Episode 5, the previous episode, in Bottled Appetites, where she, like, drew her reproductive organs onto her stomach and then, like, tried to summon the djinn. Presumably, it's been a number of years since the last episode. There's kind of an increase in her desperation for this. Like, this is starting to seem even more futile the more and more we get on, which isn't really helped by Geralt being just so, as you said, unsupportive and kind of skeptical about why she's here and if it's even a worthy pursuit for her.

ROB: Yeah, it's always a bit of a train wreck sometimes watching their relationship and how it sort of evolves or their interactions with each other. And it's always quite sad really because there's these two people that crave each other or crave that connection with someone, but they're not used to it. And let's be real. Yes, they're like, you know, decades old, but this is their first real relationship with someone. You know, Geralt has been a social outcast for how many years. He doesn't really know how to talk to people or interact with people because society shuns him.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And possibly much the same to a degree with Yennefer and her time in court must be very superficial and proper. And you must do this. You must do all these social etiquettes that she's got to adhere to. It's not real if that makes sense.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: They've – yeah, no doubt – had like passing romances or whatever it is and – that or the other, as they've gone about their lives. But, to each other, they're having really real feelings for. And I don't think they understand how to deal with those.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: They're very much stumbling over each other and stumbling over what to say with each other, but it comes out so, so severe sometimes, and so horribly, and so sad because you just want to shake the two of them and just be like, “Be honest with each other. Tell each other what you want, you know.” And it's – it's – it's heartbreaking sometimes to watch, but I think Henry and Anya did an absolutely fantastic job in this scene. And that, you know, the character development that they show for these two characters is just – it’s wonderful. I think, personally, one of my biggest highlights from the entire series was literally Anya as Yennefer.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: The journey that we go through watching her, phenomenal. Absolutely fantastic. The need for this fertility, need to be a mother just gets stronger and stronger throughout the years. Throughout the rest of the series, she sort of mentions that she's done everything.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: But that's the only thing that she's not done. But she's not done it because she's not been able to do it.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And, like she says, her choice has been taken away from her, admittedly, sort of by her own desire at the time.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: But even that's a really interesting thing to unpack with Yennefer.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Yeah, she made a choice 70, 50, or whatever years ago that now she, she regrets and that's quite sad. 

ALYSSA: The conversation that Rob is referencing comes up in Episode 8 much more. And it's a conversation between Yennefer and Tissaia. You know, she talks about, “I've done everything, but I still don't have a legacy.”

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: This idea – this idea of legacy is something that we continually revisit. And we'll actually see it later on in the episode in a conversation between Geralt and Borch at the end. So, this is an idea that these main characters are grappling with. What is the legacy that they'll leave behind as people who are incredibly independent and don't really have any loyalties or aren't required to have any loyalties? And that's probably something that, hopefully, the show will get to in Season 2 and on.

ROB: And not even the legacies that leave behind, but what legacies they don't care if they leave behind. You know, you've got Yennefer grasping at any straw that she can to be a mother. But then you've got Geralt, which again is just an absolute kick in the teeth to Yennefer when he's like, “Ah, my child has surprised,” he use as Bruxa bait. He – he’s got this opportunity to have this legacy or have something akin to a daughter. He can quite happily just walk away from it. Leave it behind, not care. I think that’s even more, more heartbreaking for Yennefer.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, we'll probably see the fallout of that in the next episode, Episode 7.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And, hopefully, we'll get an opportunity to – again, like as these themes continually come up, I guess, when it comes to Geralt’s child of surprise, he like lets that slip—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —in, like, a very strange line. As you said, he's like, “I would rather use my child of surprise as Bruxa bait.” He's trying to make the case that children are not suited to their professions. You can't tow around a child—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —as a witcher or a sorceress. And he lets that slip. You know, to me, it kind of reads as out of character, but it's okay. Yennefer immediately turns around and then she’s just like, “What? You have child of surprise.” And then that's when she gets incredibly angry that Geralt has cheated destiny to get a child. Part of me wonders. Like, did Yennefer not think of that? Yennefer, did you try like saving people who are dying and just get a child of surprise of your own?

ROB: I mean I guess from – I guess from the Yennefer’s perspective, it's very different. You know, there's—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —obviously, a very different feeling for being like a mother. Like, this is mine. I grew this, you know—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —as opposed to I've happened upon a situation and, now, I have a child, I guess. I don't know.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think, again, the line that follows it is from Geralt. And, to me, the writing here feels a little bit out of character, but he says, “You know, every time I'm with you, I speak more in five minutes than I have in weeks.” I'm paraphrasing. And then, like, the conversation just, like, ends. And then he tells her that, like, they're taking another route with the dwarves, hopefully, to cut off the Reavers.

ROB: I didn't necessarily read it as like out of character for him to say those things, personally. I think it's a case of we're able to explore a bit more with Geralt now that we're seeing him in a visual sort of capacity.

ALYSSA: Mhmm. Yeah.

ROB: I really think that Geralt, in his awkward not quite understanding social structures and conversations and how things, you know, happen, kind of – kind of tries to pass it off as a bit of a joke. You know, “Oh, child of surprise, a Bruxa bait. You know, we don't need children.” That sort of thing.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Not really understanding or realizing how important it is to Yennefer. Still, even though all that nonsense with the, the djinn happened, but there we are. I digress. Yeah. He's not very good at picking things up. Lesson. Yeah, I, I think he definitely read the situation wrong. And Yennefer definitely does something to him—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —you know, which makes him on edge. And he's uncomfortable, but he wants to be with her. And I, I think that him not understanding these new feelings that he's got  and, you know, for both them. Like I said, they – they kind of stumble around this relationship with each other.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: They're not used to it. And I, I – again, I just thought it was really sad when he said, “You know, I say more when you're around than I have in weeks.” And, yeah, I did – I think – I think that's just their reality—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —as, as a couple—

ALYSSA: Yes.

ROB: —that’s dysfunctional as it is. Like, yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah, that’s certainly true. I think that there is like a very naive, romantic—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —in Geralt, albeit, one that just doesn't really know how to go about a seemingly genuine relationship.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Maybe out of character wasn't the right phrasing. I think it's just, you know, the writing in the specific scene feels a little clunky for Geralt.

ROB: Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I don't know if I can explain it better than that, but I also don't have any immediate alternatives to offer. Like, I do like the writing for Yennefer in the specific scene, but – I don't know – I just feel that Geralt’s line felt a little clunky here.

ROB: Yeah, I can definitely see where you’re coming from with that because we know Geralt.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: We know him from the books. We know him from what we've seen previously in the series.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And we – you know, we feel comfortable that we know who Geralt is, but he's definitely caught on the back foot with this as much as I think we are as an audience.

ALYSSA: Hmm.

ROB: So, it definitely feels clunky what he's saying because – probably because it is. You know, it's stuff that he's not expecting he needs to say, or should say, or could be saying, you know. So, it's – it's new territory and ground for him. This big monster hunter who's, you know, killed this, that, and the other, but can’t talk to women.

ALYSSA: And I think it'll be interesting to see, like, how the writers choose to develop his character over the coming seasons and where his relationships go. Before we get to the shady dwarven shortcut, we’re going to hand it off to Lars from Witcherflix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, Rob and I will continue our discussion of “Rare Species”.

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody. There are a lot of things to report from the last week, so let's hop right into it.

Let's start with the biggest news: Netflix has released a first glimpse into Season 2 of The Witcher in the form of promo pictures for our main characters with their new look in the new season. Geralt, for example, can be seen in his new armor including some shoulder pads, a belt around his leg for his Witcher potions, as well as a new chest plate looking like that of a Greek or Roman soldier. To have a look for yourself, pay breakfastinbeauclair.com a visit.

Moreover, Netflix revealed the official synopsis for Season 2: "Convinced Yennefer’s life was lost at the Battle of Sodden, Geralt of Rivia brings Princess Cirilla to the safest place he knows, his childhood home of Kaer Morhen. While the Continent’s kings, elves, humans and demons strive for supremacy outside its walls, he must protect the girl from something far more dangerous: the mysterious power she possesses inside."

In other Season 2 news, we have some new leaked picture from the set. Redanian Intelligence has obtained pictures from the Witcher set at Chobham Common in Surrey, England. On the pictures, we can see Freya Allan or her stunt double as Ciri wearing some light armor. This scene is possibly taking place when she is training at Kaer Morhen in the first bunch of episodes in Season 2. On these pictures we can see two more women. One has blonde hair, the other red. Redanian Intelligence speculates that this tall, blonde, elf-like woman could be Lara Dorren. She is one of Ciri's ancestors and was a powerful sorceress responsible for the Elder Blood that runs in Ciri's veins and gives her her special powers. Redanian Intelligence adds that the red-haired woman could be Queen Cerro of Redania. She was the Redanian Queen who adopted Lara Dorren's daughter, Riannon. The story of Lara and Cerro is a very important one for Ciri's storyline, even though from the books we don't really know what had happened between the two women. Elves and humans tell different versions of the story how the meeting of Lara and Cerro went and why Queen Cerro decided to take the little Riannon in. Even if it isn't these two women on Redanian Intelligence's pictures, their story will definitely play an important role in Season 2 or in later seasons.

On other set pictures that were photographed by a local woman and released by GetSurrey.co.uk, we can see a field and an artificial dead tree in the middle of it. The field is grim and dark and looks like a battle had taken place. Was the tree destroyed in the battle? Or does it have something to do with the leshen whose appearance in Season 2 was leaked by Redanian Intelligence a few months ago? We will see.

There is also some casting news to report for Season 2: Unfortunately actor Thue Rasmussen who was supposed to play fan favorite Witcher Eskel is no longer able to be part of the Witcher production due to conflicting schedules caused by the pandemic and the postponed filmings. Instead, Deadline.com has learned that Swiss actor Basil Eidenbenz will now play Eskel. He is known for roles on TV shows such as "Victoria", "The Athena" or the Swiss series "Best Friends". Moreover, two book characters will make an appearance in Season 2 of The Witcher according to Redanian Intelligence: the lawyers Codringher and Jacob Fenn of the detective agency with the same name will show up in Season 2 and will probably assist Geralt in solving some mysteries.

In other news that was not confirmed yet, Season 3 of The Witcher is very, very likely to happen. Redanian Intelligence reports that Season 3 has been added to the database of the Writers Guild of America. This would only happen if there were actual plans to do a third season. So let's keep our fingers crossed that Netflix will confirm this officially and we can look forward to even more adventures on the Continent.

Now let's head into the realm of rumors for a moment: according to business insider, Daniel Ritchmann—who has already made some correct prediction for Season 1 and 2—reports that Netflix is considering another Witcher spinoff. Redanian Intelligence reports that according to these rumors, one of these projects could focus on stories about the mages and sorceresses in the Witcher world. We will see how much truth there is to this rumor. We already have a confirmed spin-off miniseries named "Blood Origin" focussing on the Conjunction of the Spheres, Elves and the Creation of the first Witcher and an animated movie about Vesemir. Netflix seems to be very confident in the Witcher, this is a very good thing.

Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]

Discussion

ALYSSA: Hey, everyone! Welcome back from the break. I’m here with Rob, TheUndeadGamr, discussing “Rare Species” from Netflix’s The Witcher. When we left off, Geralt and Yennefer had joined a dragon hunt, recently agreeing to take a shortcut through the mountains. In the next scene, Yarpen leaves the company across the narrow footbridge on a cliff. Borch, Téa, and Véa fall. At camp that evening, Jaskier confronts Geralt following Borch’s presumed death. Geralt enters Yennefer's tent and they make love. Afterwards, they have a conversation about their childhoods and dreams. Yennefer wakes in the morning and is surprise to see Geralt is still there. Yarpen says that they know a shortcut. And then, when they get to the shortcut, it's like one-foot ledge on the side of a cliff. Interestingly enough, this is actually filmed in a parking lot in Budapest.

ROB: Oh, wow.

ALYSSA: So, they – yeah, they did, like, a really wonderful job of, like, adding a certain element of danger to all of the scenes that you see them on the bridge. I guess, we'll get to what happens when Borch falls. But there does seem to be a certain amount of danger. They all try to cross the bridge. The dwarves have no problem. Unfortunately, though, a plank that's holding Borch slips and he ends up on the end of it. Geralt tries to save him and he falls. And Téa and Véa let go. They follow their leader down into the mist. And that leaves Geralt upset and distraught going out of that scene. But, yeah, like, the cliff was very well done in terms of, like, effects. The fall, admittedly, it did kind of make me laugh watching it.

ROB: A little bit. Yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: It, it was – it was Borch falling that did it for me. I was just like, “Ooh.”

ALYSSA: Yeah, it was a little – it was a little cheesy. There's – there's definitely something that it must remind me of and it must be from the 80s or early like 90s.

ROB: Yeah, I feel exactly the same way. There's something that that's reminiscent of that doesn't age well.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: So, it was a shame they, they filmed it in that way.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I think that, in terms of emotional weight, this scene is able to accurately portray kind of the agony that Geralt feels for having failed—

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —Borch, Téa, and Véa. Obviously, that was a little bit undermined by the production of him falling. But, you know, we do get to see the outcome of it in the next scene where Jaskier is trying to comfort Geralt.

ROB: I think that's it as well. Like, there's – there's a lot of weight that he puts onto himself in a lot of situations. And this is, you know, no doubt, why he doesn't want to get too close to people and, no doubt, why he tries to stay away from relationships and social interactions with people because he doesn't want that pressure or that weight of something like this happening. I mean this whole scene gave me anxiety. This whole scene gave me anxiety. Once again, I was just reminded of the level or lack of level of health and safety in these fantasy worlds.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Like, Lord of the Rings in Middle Earth is enough. Like, you've seen those mines in Moria. There are no Health and Safety Code going on there. It’s is exactly the same here on the continent. What is going on? Can we not have a safety rail or something at the very least, honestly? But, yeah, so, that the whole – the whole thing, like, I felt Jaskier in that whole scene. I was like, “No.” If that was me, I'd be like, “No, just going back to the tavern. The dragon ain't worth it. I'm going back.” It was anxiety the entire way. But, yeah, the fall is definitely a little bit – a little bit funny looking.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: But definitely an emotive scene for Geralt and him wanting to, to help. And you see that weight and that emotion in his eyes when he's – you know, he lets them go and even the fear of Yennefer being like, you know, you can't save them. Like, otherwise, you'll die as well.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And just the absolute dedication and loyalty that Téa and Véa have, which, you know, it's evident throughout the entire episode. They – they’ve done a fantastic job of, of showing that and even in not many words as well.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: It wasn't even a second thought to them. You could see that they just let go—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —and knew that they would be okay. You know, that they're going with their, their master or however they view Borch. You know, the, the—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Whatever that, like, relationship is.

ROB: Yeah. And master is definitely the wrong word. But --

ALYSSA: In the books, it seems like commissioner/daddy. Like, I don't know.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: I don't get daddy relationship here, but it's like high key daddy relationship in the books.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Um.

ROB: But just even the awkward – that awkward conversation that they have with Jaskier where they’re like, “He is the most beautiful.”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And Jaskier is like – his face is like, “What the fuck? Did I – did I read this wrong? Like—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —what is this relationship? I thought you were just bodyguards. Is it like – it’s kind of good that you – we didn't have that like hot tub scene from the book play out in the – in the episode, I suppose. It would have been blindingly, obviously, Jaskier.

ALYSSA: Yeah, that is a line straight from the books, “He is the most beautiful.” I do love Téa and Véa  throughout the episode. I do wish that that one line had been a little closer to what had been in the books. In the show, she almost sounds exasperated with Jaskier when she says like, “He's the most beautiful.”

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: In the books, it's actually Geralt that asks—

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: —“Why do you guys ride with him?” Either Téa or Véa responds in almost like thoughtful wonder. So, she's very much struggling for the words to describe Borch or why she's riding with him. She says like, “He is the most beautiful.” You know, I, I think I would have liked to see that a little more than the exacerbation in reaction to, to Jaskier.

ROB: Yeah, I get what you're saying. She – she’s – she's grasping for the word—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —to describe her relationship or their relationship with him. I think, in the book, he comes across as a bit more genuine.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Whereas in this adaptation, she almost says it very matter of factly. You know, he's the most beautiful. Why – why wouldn't I? I think you get more of a sense of their or a different sense of their relationship, I think, in this adaption.

ALYSSA: I think that's good way of putting it. Like, I mean, obviously, the characterizations between original source material and the adaptation are going to be slightly different. The line felt a little shoehorned there. I do think it’s a nice thing they did that. There's a small line when Jaskier confronts Geralt and they're just kind of sitting on this rock as they make camp. There was like a brief line here that, you know, might not be a reference to the books. But, if it is a reference to the books, that's quite cool. Jaskier says, “We could head to the coast. Get away for a while.” And, at least to me, it sounds like it could be a reference to A Little Sacrifice.

ROB: Oh, my god, that story.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: I love that story so much.

ALYSSA: When I was watching the episode this morning, I was like, “Oh, that'd be nice if, like, the story of A Little Sacrifice lives in between this eight-episode series somewhere.”

ROB: I mean I kind of personally really hope we see that story in Season 2 because I’d probably break down with tears watching that if it – if it's done well as it were. It’s one of my favorite stories from that short story collection.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: But I think that whole scene is really beautiful, really wonderfully short as well. And, you know, they – they're both getting over losing Borch, and Téa, and Véa. It's clear that both of them – even in the short space of time, Borch has done a lot and said a lot—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —to affect their lives, you know, and really made them think with those sort of choice very knowing things that he says or the way he says certain things. And, even Dandelion’s like, “You go to the coast.” He's – he's thinking, “Am I happy? What, what can I do in my life?”

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: You know, what, what am I striving for? It's nice to sort of see them have that conversation—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —about what's next? I mean what are we doing? We're just sort of traveling about, but are we happy doing that? Could we be doing something else? Is there something else we want in our lives?

ALYSSA: It also shows a very lovely aspect of, you know, this male friendship. Right. Like, we started their journey with them in Episode 2. We met them at The Edge of the World. They went and had their adventure. Yaskier composed Toss a Coin. And then we, like, see him again in Episode 4 of Bastards, Banquets, and Burials. And then, you know, he's talking about the chamomile on the bottom. And we know that they have some sort of good relationship. Again, we go from Episode 4 to Episode 5, Bottled Appetites, and we see Geralt’s  care for Jaskier while his neck is all swollen. He's very concerned for his friend. And then, you know, we get to Episode 6 and we see their relationship kind of continue to grow. Jaskier has a lot of dedication to Geralt. And we see this in the scene, which I think is really beautiful. He has a lot of consideration for his friend’s feelings. He wants to make sure that his friend does all right. You know, Geralt doesn't really seem like the kind of character to reach out if he needs emotional support, that kind of thing. So, it's nice to see that Jaskier offers it to him as best he can.

ROB: It’s also continuing to see that development of their relationship together. You know, like we said, we've had – we get different snapshots of Geralt and Yennefer together and talking through this things or it's been years since they've seen each other. We also get the same sense, like you said, throughout each episode, where we get interaction with Geralt and Jaskier that, sometimes, it's been years or maybe they've been traveling together for the past month or whatever it is. It's still nice to see that progression of that friendship with each other. Whether Geralt admits it or not, of course, he cares about Jaskier.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: The same to be said to Jaskier to Geralt, very obviously. You know, Rob, come on. Yeah, that's fine. But, yeah, it's just another snapshot of how that relationship has continued to grow. It very much seems like, at this stage in their relationship, they are good friends if, if you can call that relationship. Like, good friends. I don't know. Because they're just being very open and honest with each other—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —and sort of having a very general conversation. Like, let's talk about the future. Let's sit and talk about what we're gonna do. You know, what – how do you feel?

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: It just seems very open, honest, and genuine.

ALYSSA: It's a really nice example of loyalty and of male friendship.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: You know, we don't necessarily see, like, wholesome male friendships in a ton of shows. Certainly, they're out there, but it's nice to see that here in this fantasy worlds as well. I think Joey Batey does a lovely job with Jaskier throughout the show.

ROB: Fantastic. Yeah.

ALYSSA: He's great fun. He's great fun.

ROB: Absolutely. And, even, even just showing that range that he's got, you know, where, most of the time, he’s that comic relief. He's the loud bard. But, also, you know, this, this scene – just even the way it’s shoot just really brings everything down, you know.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And they're almost – they're almost like whispering to each other, almost. You know, they're pondering new thought. They're talking very low to each other. There's not a lot of high energy here. Let's cut away the nonsense and that's just – that's just talk, like you and me.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And that's really nice thing. Yeah, like you say, we don't see many wholesome male friendships. And it's nice when you do because that's what friendship is. You know, it's, “Let's sit down. How are you feeling? How are you? You okay?” Like—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And that's what they're doing. And it's – yeah, it's great.

ALYSSA: By the end of it, Jaskier is asking him, you know, what makes you happy. I think Borch would want us to really be critical of, like, what – you know, for lack of a better term, brings us joy. And that causes Geralt to have a think and, ultimately, ends up entering Yennefer's tent. So, he goes inside her tent. She approaches him. They start to kiss. And then they have a brief conversation. And then they start making out and making love. Geralt mentions the lilac and gooseberry scent. He's admitting to Yennefer like, “The saddest part is when that scent fades after you leave.” Well, one, you can definitely get that scent from Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamary. You could use code hanza for a 10 percent off. And that code is Evergreen. So, use it whenever you like. It's really interesting to see, like, how he talks about the effect that she's had on him. And then, as it turns out, she says, “But you left first. You left in Rinde,” in the last episode, Bottled Appetites. So, we kind of get the tumultuous years-long relationship. And then we get like that montage on top of that. That could have been on the top of the episode, but we now see it here. We're digging into not only their insecurities, but into the grievances that they have held against each other.

ROB: The cinematography is just like fantastic. There's so many beautifully short scenes and just the relationship that Geralt and Yennefer have, but, also, you know, the way they're portrayed by Henry and Anya is – the on-screen chemistry that they have is just so, so raw, so believable, so real. They've done a fantastic job with this tumultuous on-and-off romance that they have with each other.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And just the, the way this scene is, like, underlined by a sweet kiss as well and that just builds up and builds up. And it's just – oh, it's just beautiful. Just perfect. I love watching the two of them together onscreen.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: It's just fantastic. After all of the stuff that's happened, you know, the, the previous conversation he had with Yennefer, losing Borch and really reflecting on the things Borch has said. But, you know, he, he didn't just go there to, you know, mess around. Like, he, he genuinely came here for her, you know. Yeah, just the – I don't know. The things they say to each other. Like, “Yeah, when that scent goes,” it's nice that they finally kind of sit down and put away the nonsense and just genuinely talk to each other for what seems like one of the first times, you know.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Oh, you left first. It's like, yeah, well, you know, they really get to it and open up and be – like you said, they're talking about their childhoods and stuff. There's something just really nice, genuine, and sweet about that interaction. They continue to grow. And, yes, they're making mistakes with each other as they stumble along this field of relationship with each other. But there are elements where it's clear they both sort of try to do better and right by each other.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And I think this is one of the scenes that definitely shows it. Also, if I could have that tent to take to LARP that is really tiny – really, really tiny, easy to transport but then is massive on the inside, like—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: —hit me up, please. I, I want that tent.

ALYSSA: Yeah, TARDIS tent.

ROB: Absolutely.

ALYSSA: So, when it comes to the music, something that we've talked about repeatedly in episodes of the podcast is the way that Sonya Belousova and Giona Ostinelli – if I'm pronouncing his name correctly – have composed these different layers of the music throughout each episode. And Her Sweet Kiss is another example of that. We see the song in multiple forms and then it comes to a crescendo here.

ROB: Like I said, I – it's one of the most beautiful songs in the whole series and my, my favorite. They've done a fantastic job composing this music. In the end, when we hear Joey Batey, you know, sing as Jaskier over, this arrangement here, it builds up with this scene. It just adds so much depth and color to this, this romance that they have with each other and how it just continues to sort of flourish and then reconnecting.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: It just – it's some – something that's just so emotive and just beautiful to watch really. I can't pinpoint it on, like, one particular thing. I think the writing here is fantastic in this scene. The performances are fantastic in the scene. The setting, you know, where they're just alone and they're in a safe sort of place and environment with each other. And, the music, it's just chef’s kiss.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I do think that it was really – it was really beautifully done. Some of the details that we got from quarantine watch party back in April about the scene, Matt D'Ambrosio said that Hailey, the writer of the episode, wrote the lyrics to Jaskier’s song with the composer, Sonya Belousova and Giona Ostinelli with some help from Declan de Barra, who sang The Last Rose of Cintra. And Lauren, about Her Sweet Kiss, said that it's the perfect backdrop for the love story of this episode. The last thing that we got from the scene, Lauren mentioned, “Mostly what I remember of shooting this scene is Director Charlotte Brandstrom calling in, “More sweat, They've just had sex, remember?” So, just funny production things when you think about like the realism of showing this kind of physicality onscreen and, and trying to convey exactly where, where these characters are. After the scene takes place, we've kind of talked about the vulnerabilities that they've had. After they make love, they're just kind of basking in it.

ROB: Hmm.

ALYSSA: They start to kind of reveal a lot more of their insecurities and their vulnerabilities. Yennefer asks Geralt, “Have you always wanted to be a witcher? Did you want to be anything else?” Geralt asks her, “Did you always want to be a sorceress?” As Rob mentioned earlier in the episode, this is where we really start to unpack why they are the way that they are.

ROB: It feels like they're just having a real genuine conversation and genuine connection—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —and learning about each other, you know, as any couple would do. And asking the questions, I suppose, any couple would do, you know.

ALYSSA: At that time, yeah.

ROB: Yeah, at that time. I mean, yeah, the amount of times my girlfriend has been like, “So, did you always want to be a witcher – a witcher, Rob? I’m like, “Well, you know, it's just – it’s just one of those things to do. Like, yeah. So, it's nice to see just sort of like some genuine relationship stuff, sometimes, in a show. Do you know what I mean?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: That we can all just relate to, I suppose, basking in the afterglow of making love and just chatting.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah.

ROB: Yeah, just chatting, you know. Just about the notes that you said from the watch party with the writer of the episode writing the lyrics alongside the composer and the music to that—

ALYSSA: Yes.

ROB: I think, that level of commitment, production, and dedication to what they're creating, speaks volumes. It’s in the same way that Peter Jackson, when he was making the Lord of the Rings—

ALYSSA: Yep.

ROB: —he was involved in every single aspect of the production.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: But he was there with, with the orchestra in, in the room when they were recording to make sure that the composer really understood what was trying to be portrayed in said scene. That just shows the real level of dedication that they had to this project.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: They wanted every note to hear, everything to be right, everything to, to work in unison together.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: In some productions, everything's very separate. You know, the actors go do their thing. They record it. And then it's off to the editor or, you know, it's off to post production. It's off to – off to the composer. And they all sort of do their different things. And then, all at the end, it's all kind of come together and strung together. And there's your finished product. It kind of speaks volumes that they're involved in every step of the way to make sure that this is right. This is what we want to put out to the world.

ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. We talked about this a little bit on Episode 17, which covered Four Marks. You know, Toss a Coin was also written by the writer of that episode, Jenny Klein. So, it definitely makes sense that Hailey Hall, who wrote this episode also ended up writing Her Sweet Kiss. As you said, like, it's pretty cool that they've developed like this 360 relationship—

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: —that goes around production.

ROB: To have, as an actor, anything that's really fully prepared for you and you're given, “Here’s the finished product,” that gives you so many tools as an actor to work off of because everything's there. Like, from Joey Batey's point of view, he’s probably, “Here's the song that I'm going to performing in this episode. Now, it's here as a finished piece. Like, I can fully comprehend it and use that in my performance. Especially with TV and film, you don't always get an opportunity or a very long opportunity to rehearse scenes or rehearse certain things barring, you know, fight choreography and that sort of thing usually like you do in theater, where, obviously, you go through months or weeks or days or whatever it is of, of rehearsals. And then, then you perform the thing. It doesn't always happen that way in TV and film. Usually, you're given the scripts. And then you, you know, do your bits. And then you're on, on set straightaway. You do the thing. Sometimes, you get a little bit of back and forth. Let's rehearse a few moves here and there. But it's only like five, 10 minutes or so before the camera is on. Action. Let's go.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Yeah, it speaks volumes. Again, like I said, just the production of the whole series.

ALYSSA: Yeah, you know, precisely. Her Sweet Kiss definitely takes us throughout the episode in the ways that it's intertwined through all these characters from Joey Batey, you know, at the top of the episode, singing it through the score to the actual full recording at the end during the credits. It definitely ties the whole episode together and serves as Lauren said as a very lovely backdrop for Yennefer and Geralt’s relationship throughout the episode. So, Yennefer wakes in the morning and she's surprised to see Geralt is still there. Outside the camp, Yennefer resolves to kill the dragon despite Geralt’s plea to turn back. They realized the dwarves are gone. Yennefer runs ahead and freezes them on her way to the cave and enters alone. She sees the dead body of a green dragon guarding an egg. Téa and Véa appear with a golden dragon, which is revealed to be Borch. The Reavers arrive and attack. Yennefer, Geralt, Téa, and Véa kill them.

ROB: When Villentretenmerth is revealed instantly better CGI than the, the Polish TV series from the – in the early 2000s, straight off the bat there.

ALYSSA: Yeah, it definitely looks more realistic, I think, just very different than what people were expecting.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: I do know that there was, like, backlash online about the golden dragon.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: I was a little surprised, but not to say that it was bad. I was just surprised.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Part of the reason for that – Lauren actually addressed it during the quarantine watch party. She said, “When we were working on the detailed design of Villentretenmerth, Game of Thrones had just premiered their final season and I was terrified of presenting something close to Daenerys’ dragons. So, that definitely factored into how Villentretenmerth looked. Not a good or a bad thing. I think people were just surprised.

ROB: Yeah, absolutely. But, yeah, the way the whole scene plays out, you know, Yennefer sort of coming in and the big reveal of Téa and Véa still alive and Villentretenmerth have been Borch the whole time. And, you know – and then hearing the story of the green dragon, she died trying to protect her egg, protect her young. I think that really hits home. You can see it on Yennefer's face.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: Like, it really hits home for Yennefer that she was happy to kill this dragon so she could be a mother not realizing or not knowing that this green dragon, herself, was a mother guarding an egg, you know.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And it's, I think, instantly there. She, she sees a different side of things and realizes what's important here.

ALYSSA: We do get a double down on that from the actual production and direction as well. There's a brief camera shot where Yennefer is being told this dragon’s story. And it pans from her face to her abdomen and to the dagger that she's holding in that shot as well.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: So, even without, you know, words, were being shown that Yennefer has an important parallel to the story.

ROB: Yeah, not even just that pan down to, to her abdomen. She's holding that dagger with, with intent.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And then she loosens her grip on it. All of that combined, you totally see her intention just go out of the window. She understands the situation that she's now in basically and realizes what's, you know, important here. It’s protecting that baby, protecting that egg, which is something that, you know, as a mother or as a parent, you obviously, want to do and you – you know, you definitely, definitely see that.

ALYSSA: Eventually, then they have a conversation with Borch and then the Reavers arrive. Because the dwarves are frozen on the side of the mountain with Yennefer's magic, it just becomes Geralt, Yennefer, Téa, and Véa against the Reavers. And we get this huge brawl. I think this is now the second corny moment of the episode. After Borch’s fall is the Aard, which—

ROB: Oh, yeah. I love that. I don't know why. I just think it’s that right amount of corny that I just love. I was like, “Yeah.” There's just something about it. It’s definitely super corny, but I just – it just looks awesome, I think. It's something really cool and just that, that slow-mo as well as the three guys get pushed back by Aard.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: Yeah, it's just – it's – it's amazing.

ALYSSA: Lauren did say in the quarantine watch party thread that, if writer Hailey Hall could change one thing about the episode, it would be that Geralt and Yen’s kiss in the cave. And Lauren just closed that tweet with a, “Sorry, babe.”

ROB: Love that.

ALYSSA: You know, we get to see all of them in full fight. As we've said throughout these Breakfast in Beauclair episodes, we don't always get to see Geralt fighting other humans, particularly throughout the books as well. So, it's interesting, obviously, to see it happen continually here. And it's a little brutal because all of the Reavers, ultimately, are slaughtered between Téa, Véa, Geralt, and Yennefer. I just need like a – I just need to, like, copy paste that every time I say it. What did you think about the scene as a whole. 

ROB: I love the scene as a whole. The fight scenes in The Witcher as a whole continue to be brilliant, personally. And that scene was, was no different. It was fantastic to see Geralt fight that many enemies in fairly open sort of space. You know, he was attacked from all sides. And Henry Cavill just looks really natural, I think, with a sword – with a weapon in his hand and he flows so beautifully. I think one of the great things that Geralt’s  done and with his fight choreographer as well, whose name I forget.

ALYSSA: Vladimir Furdik.

ROB: There you go. Perfect. They've done a fantastic job, I think, of portraying Geralt’s fighting style in a very real and realistic looking way that looks natural and looks real. I mean, like, Henry Cavill has been not only just training with a sword but a lot of this gym training as well. He did a video for Men's Health last year at some point. A lot of his training regime in the gym was also looking at how he can better his posture, better his endurance when it comes to using his sword. So, he did a lot of shoulder work, a lot of posterior chain work, and stuff like that that helps when you're swinging a sword about for however many hours a day he had to do it to get, you know, a little five-minute scene. Yeah, I just think it's fantastic. And, also, like, Yennefer in there as well, like, totally holding her own and, like, doing a bit of magic here and there, bits and bobs. And just – yeah, it’s absolutely fantastic. And just the choreography of that scene and the way it’s shot as well when you got the, the shots from up above with the turns of spinning around and firing off it. Yeah, just fantastic. Just really, really cool. And, obviously, Téa and Véa just, like, kicking ass. Like, just great. Just really, really great.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I definitely think aspects of this fight scene were wonderfully shot. It's interesting to see, you know, as we go around to each of the little groups of fighting inside and outside of the cave. So, we see Borch versus this one guy, at one point, just got demolished by a column of fire.

ROB: Like, overkill. Overkill.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Way too much for one dude.

ROB: Borch is too much. It smells like barbecue in here now. Like, tone it down a bit.

ALYSSA: He could have literally given him a poke straight through the stomach with just a claw.

ROB: Would have sufficed.

ALYSSA: Yeah, definitely overcompensating there. And then we jump outside. We see Geralt and Yennefer against Boholt. We see Téa and Véa against the Reavers as well. So, it's interesting to see, like, all these little parts of, you know, these fight scenes, particularly when you get to, like, fight scenes with this many people. You know, you think about big action blockbusters, how they have to go through, like, massive crowds. I'm particularly thinking of like the end scene in, like, Avengers: End Game, for example. This, we actually cut to each of the individual groups instead of kind of weaving through the environment the way that we did in Renfri’s fight in Episode 1. So, I think, like, there's some orientation. We do have a very easy landscape to work with as we're watching the scene go on. So, despite the cuts, we know what's happening and where. It's easy for us as viewers to kind of follow along with the action, which is quite nice.

ROB: Absolutely.

ALYSSA: There's a lot of, like, talk online about like, “Should Yennefer have swords? Should she not want?”

ROB: Why not?

ALYSSA: Why not? I think that's – I think that's true. You know, I think it would have been cool to, like, see her use magic a lot more.

ROB: Agreed. Yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah, like, I don't really mind the swords. I didn't have, like, a visceral reaction as I know that some people on the internet had, but it would have been cool to see more magic.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: Because we're not seeing as much here, it kind of gives us a little bit more of, like, wonder and awe by the time we get to Episode 8 and see a full scale magical battle.

ROB: It's also nice to see the dark, gritty nature of, of the combat in the Witcher as well, which feels very real and how combat most likely was in the time of the sword and the axe.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I'm sure Cyprian from Episode 1 would have a lot of thoughts on how historically accurate this is.

ROB: Oh, absolutely, yeah. I mean I'm not – I’m not saying it's like, you know, perfect, wonderful.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: It's, obviously, still staged, you know, by Hollywood to be wonderful, and imaginative, and all that.

ALYSSA: Right.

ROB: But it's just, you know, people clinging and clanging swords against each other. You know, the same with Boholt. You find a witcher. You know, how are you going to be a witcher? He probably can't keep going toe to toe with him—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —with just weapon. So, he's going to play a bit day, a little bit rough. He grabs a bit of dirt and throws it in his, his face. I think it's things like that that kind of show – I don't know – sort of gritty realism—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: —to, to the world and, and the fighting. Not everything is honorable and by the sword.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ROB: And, you know, as, as Sir Eyck would have it. You know, it's – it's dirty and it's, “We’re fighting for our lives here.”

ALYSSA: Yeah. And then that brief moment where Yennefer just shanks Boholt through the neck.

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Pretty grim. Yeah, but that kind of puts an end to the fight. After or during this fight scene, Jaskier wakes at the camp having been left behind by everyone, by the dwarves, by Geralt, and by Yennefer. He shuffles around to the cave.

ROB: Just classically late to the party.

ALYSSA: Yeah, he's got his bag over her shoulder like—

ROB: Like, so, yeah, the traffic was horrendous. I got here as quick as I could. Where is everyone?

ALYSSA: Yeah, from the quarantine watch party, Lauren did reveal that his line, on the way to the cave as he's passing the dwarves, he says, “Are we queuing for something?” And, apparently, that was a Joey Batey ad lib.

ROB: Love it.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, Jaskier catches up to the dwarves. They all arrive at the cave having missed the battle. Borch gives the dwarves dragon teeth as proof for the King’s reward. He then speaks to the Witcher and sorceress revealing Geralt's last wish from Episode 5, Bottled Appetites. Yennefer now believes their relationship is built upon the light of the djinn’s power and leaves. Jaskier attempts to comfort Geralt and Geralt angrily send some away. You know, Borch now seems to be this all-knowing dragon. He just kind of – in a few words, just kind of dismantles a lot of the progress that Geralt and Yennefer have seemed to make throughout the episode.

ROB: It's a shame, but it's honest. The truth hurts, you know. And it's – it’s those honest words and the realities of things that both of them need to hear, sadly. Whether they want to agree with it or not or whether we, as the, the viewers, you know, gunning for this relationship between Geralt and Yennefer. Whether we want to hear it or not, it's – it's the truth. But he says, you know, “I'll save you a lot of hurt now,” sort of thing. Yeah, it's just totally brutal with the two of them.

ALYSSA: Yeah, here, in this scene, Yennefer first finds out about Geralt’s wish. You know, I think understandably, from the perspective of her character, she has such an adverse reaction to Borch suggesting that Geralt had wished not to lose her. She says like, “That's why I can't get away from you. That's why I feel this way.” And he's like, “No. No, that's real.” But, you know, to her, it's like, “Well, how could we know?” Jaskier tries to comfort Geralt again at this point. And Geralt just turns on him and says like, “All of this is your fault.” I think the line he says is like, “How come, when I'm standing in a pile of shit, you're always the one shoveling it?” He blames him for the child of surprise, for the djinn, for everything. By the end of it, Jaskier just leaves. So, we're, again, seeing Geralt on his own yet again. And then I think that this leaves a very apt entry into his actions in Episode 7, Before a Fall.

ROB: Yeah, it's – it's – I think the whole scene is a little bit heartbreaking really. You know, Yennefer just seeing it as a magic. This is – this is a spell. This is why I can't escape you rather than it being something real. It's just a shame. And then, obviously, Geralt, having all of that frustration and anger, he’s one of the closest people to him. As I think we, as humans, are prone to do, sometimes, we take our upset out on the people closest to us and not shamefully. And he takes it out on Jaskier, who – yeah, well, he’s been involved in some weird stuff with Geralt. He’s always there to pick him back up again and support him and be with him. Yeah, it's a shame that Jaskier takes the, the brunt of all of that. It just shows, shows more about who Geralt is as a person. All of this is still very new to him; socializing, these relationships, friends, whatever it is. And it's quite sad to see his dysfunctionality, I suppose.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And, like I said, you know, by the end of this episode, I think the abandonment that they feared, it comes into play here.

ROB: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: We've seen the vulnerabilities of both Yennefer and Geralt. And then, you know, by the end, it seems like things that they've been afraid of kind of come to light and then that becomes their reality. So, as I said, I think that the events that happen in this episode definitely lead logically into Geralt’s storyline in the next.

ROB: Yeah, because you see where those abandonment issues stem from.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And then it all – it all starts to make more sense because we’ve already really seen it with, with Yennefer and we know why she feels abandoned, her backstory that we saw in Episode 2, I think, it was. So, yeah, like seeing it later on, starts to make more sense the more we uncover about Geralt. And, even Jaskier, bless him, you know, he, he could argue back and say this and, yeah, back to Geralt, but he just takes it on the chin. He understands his friend probably better than anyone else does. He understands Geralt and knows that you're angry. You don't mean this. I'll go. And, when you’ve calmed down, we'll – we'll hang out again.

ALYSSA: So, I guess we'll see how these relationships net out. I do believe this is the last time that we see Jaskier for the rest of the season.

ROB: Yeah, I think it is.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, this is ultimately where the relationship ends, at least, for the moment. Hopefully, we will see a continued develop of their relationship in Season 2 and onward. We do know that they have a very long history and that they're very good friends. So, hopefully, we'll get to see that continue. And we'll get more of Joey Batey as the series goes on. Before we get to Ciri’s storyline and comparisons to the books, we’re going to end today’s discussion here. Join Rob, TheUndeadGamr, and I in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair for our continued discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 106, “Rare Species”.

Outro & CREDITS

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with the Breakfast in Beauclair theme by MojoFilter Media and the “Tidings from Toussaint” theme by Bettina Campomanes.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Julie, Sylvia of Skellige, Jamison, Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Jacob Meeks, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, AerialKitty, TheOneTrueChef, Dustin, Chris K. of Kovir, and Libby, The Castel Ravello Sommelier.

Special thanks to Rob, TheUndeadGamr, for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil

 

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