Ep. 23 — "Bottled Appetites" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 1)
Charli from Austria and Jess S. from the US join Alyssa from GoodMorhen for the first half of our discussion of “Bottled Appetites”, the fifth episode in season one of Netflix’s The Witcher. Very important bits include: analysis of Geralt and Yennefer’s motivations in this adaption of “The Last Wish”, a breakdown of the visual effects used throughout the episode, a debate on the use of nudity and sexuality in relation to storytelling, and a call for marketable Witcher merchandise—and cake.
This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.
In this episode
[00:00] Cold Open
[00:00] Introduction
[00:00] Discussion
[00:00] “Tidings from Toussaint”
[00:00] Discussion
[00:00] Outro & Credits
Relevant Links
Transcript
Cold Open
ALYSSA: Hold on. There's, like, a very big boat passing by my apartment.
Introduction
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across The Continent.
[Welcome]
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[Episode Details]
As for this episode, Charli from Austria and Jess S. from the US call in for the first half of Episode 105 “Bottled Appetites” from Netflix’s The Witcher. Join us as we analyze Geralt and Yennefer’s motivations in this adaption of “The Last Wish”, Jess breaks down the visual effects used throughout the episode, we debate the use of nudity and sexuality in relation to the plot and storytelling, and we put out a call for marketable Witcher merchandise—and cake.
In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares tons of behind-the-scenes details from Season 1 of the Netflix show as well as production updates for Season 2.
Without further ado, let’s get to the discussion for The Witcher Episode 105, “Bottled Appetites” (Part 1).
Discussion
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa and joining us today are Charli from Austria and Jess from the US. Hey, guys.
CHARLI: Hi.
JESS: Hello.
CHARLI: I'm Charli. I work in media – online media at a publishing company and I'm a freelance music journalist. I studied musicology and then journalism for my master's degree.
ALYSSA: So, what kind of music journalism do you specialize in specifically?
CHARLI: I specialize in rock music and metal music. I write for a print magazine and go to concerts, write life reviews, album reviews. You know, just new releases. Yeah, it's fun.
ALYSSA: No, that's really awesome. Is there a specific aspect of rock or metal that really drew you into writing for that?
CHARLI: I just figured I love writing. I love this kind of music. So, why not combine the two and see where it takes me?
ALYSSA: I guess, in your years of writing, what have been some of the standout moments that have made your career something that you are really passionate about?
CHARLI: Two years ago, I got to interview, over the phone, a musician I really admire. So, that was definitely the highlight so far. We talked for, like, 40 minutes or something. And, you know, I asked him about the new album. And it was just, oh, so great.
ALYSSA: What musician was it? And why was that interview so special for you?
CHARLI: Gino, Alter Bridge.
ALYSSA: Nope. But I love it if you told me more about him.
CHARLI: Okay. I’m sorry. Okay. So, he's the singer from a band I really like. They’re from the US. And they play hard rock music. And, at a concert of theirs, I met my best friend.
ALYSSA: Aww.
CHARLI: So, really special.
ALYSSA: What is something that most people wouldn't know about being a music journalist?
CHARLI: It doesn't always come easy writing these things, because, sometimes, when you see a gig and maybe it wasn't what you hoped it would be, then you have to kind of, you know, stay objective and not let your passion for the band itself or the music itself take over and just, you know, be able to point out bad things as well. You know, you have to kind of keep your distance a bit and look at it from the big picture. And that's – that can be challenging.
ALYSSA: Mhmm. Because you're also an avid fan of The Witcher series. That's, you know, why you and I connected. And that's why you're here. How has your experience, as a music writer, impacted your relationship with the Netflix series?
CHARLI: Being a music writer just means that I pay a lot of attention to the music and it just comes naturally to me. It's one of the first things I noticed. Then you have to watch it again and again and again to really get all of it, because there's so much going on at the same time. Of course, you know, you don't want to miss the action just because you were trying to figure out what the music was, you know. So – and then, also, of course, with – with, like, the games, I own all the soundtracks. So, I listen to them religiously. And it's just – it's a very, very important aspect of the game to me. And, without the music, the game or the show wouldn't be what it is. So, that's – it's just such a significant part of it all.
ALYSSA: Yeah, we’ve been super fortunate that, like, Sonya Belousova, herself, has been incredibly forward about sharing behind-the-scenes content, backstories to each of the soundtracks, like, everything that you could possibly imagine through, like, Twitter and Instagram.
JESS: They, obviously, had a really good time.
ALYSSA: Yeah. You know, it's nice that not only can we get an understanding of the kind of work that was done on the show, but that, just by watching it and just through assumptions, that they're actually very proactive about engaging the audience, which is really nice. And, Jess, how would you describe your role?
JESS: I work in post production in editorial. So, that's picture editing. I'm an assistant editor on a show right now. So, that means we deal with, yeah, dailies and actually cutting the show. As an assistant editor, part of your job is you're the hub for sending things to the composer, sending things to sound for sound effects and dialogue editing, sending things to the effects, and then getting them back, in case of the effects, and checking them to make sure they look correct before it gets sent to the executive producers to approve it. That's how I have some knowledge about the effects. So, I'm not a VFX expert. I’m more of, like, picture editing, like, cutting the episode. I love it, obviously. And I can notice things in a show. I'll probably have a lot of say about the effects, I think and how I think they did them. But I can give you sort of my best guess at how they created them.
ALYSSA: So, for some of our audience who might be unfamiliar with the world of, like, post production for television and film, what could you tell us kind of about the moving parts of the ecosystem of post production?
JESS: I'll probably just talk about television, because that's what we're talking about here and that's mostly what I've worked on. Television, it’s the executive producer. So, in the case of The Witcher, Lauren Hissrich is the final say. Of course, like, Netflix has input. All the decisions come down to her saying yes or no or changing things. So, I would say, in, in, like, a feature film, that job get – goes to the director of the film. In television, it's the showrunner. We get dailies in for a show. Editor puts the show together, obviously, using the script and notes they've gotten from set. Then the director gets to come in and do their notes. So, maybe some camera thing they shot that they really want to put in there or some take they really like. You know, it kind of depends on the director. Then it gets sent to the producer. So, it would get sent then to, like, Lauren and the other executive producers. I know she said the scripts on this show are really long in the first season. So, she would have had to make decisions about what to cut. And that’s the editors job to make it work and make it so you don't notice that something was cut. Once that's done, it would get sent to Netflix. Netflix will give their input on what they think is working or not working. And studio notes – network notes tend to be more broad kind of, like, we feel Geralt doesn't seem stressed out enough. We really want to emphasize this part of the story. And then it's up to the executive producer and the editor to try and address that with the footage they have without losing whatever they like about what they've made so far. So, it's a lot of, like, compromises, and little fixes, and things like that to make it work. But I would say the interesting thing about it, though, is probably, like, 70 percent of what the editor cuts in our first pass is what's in there at the end. There’s actually not a ton role change. There's usually, like, certain scenes or certain moments that get really worked on, because they're, like, the important moments of the episode and stuff like that. In the end, it's – it is – it's Lauren’s show. So, in the end, sort of these decisions are her decisions about what sort of ends up in there with some guidance from the network, because they're the ones putting it out and paying for it and all that.
ALYSSA: Today, we'll be discussing Bottled Appetites, the fifth episode in Netflix's first season of The Witcher. This episode adapts Andrzej Sapkowski’s short story of The Last Wish, in which Geralt and Jaskier meet the sorceress, Yennefer, for the first time. Meanwhile, the events in the present focus on new Nilfgaardian efforts to capture the missing Cintran Princess, Ciri. In Geralt’s and Yennefer’s timeline, Geralt attempts to find medical aid for Jaskier, who was severely injured in a djinn attack. His search leads him to Yennefer, who, unbeknownst to the Witcher, wants to capture the djinn in an attempt to cure her infertility. When we first open Geralt’s and Yennefer’s timeline, Yennefer is approaching a sorcerer for an infertility treatment. We’re not sure what. He, ultimately, tells her that she's short, but she's found herself in a location where magic is banned and she's able to make money on essentially a black market for magic.
JESS: The design of this shop is one of, like, my favorite things that happens in fantasy stories, where it's, like, a store where you're, like – it looks like nothing in here would be useful at all. It's just like time-turners or something, but, like, fantasy shows and stuff love that stuff, where it's just random things. Like, their magical. It’s a magical store. So, I like it. My favorite thing in the scene actually is Yennefer's dress. And you don’t get to see enough of, like, the design on the back of that dress. I didn't notice it until I turned, like, the brightness up on my TV. And I was like, “Oh, that's really cool.” So, Yennefer's off the grid now. It's a very modern term for it. But—
ALYSSA: Yeah, because they don't have electricity.
JESS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: So, it's a bit of an odd phrase for her to use in dialogue.
CHARLI: Apparently, Lauren Hissrich, the showrunner, she – she gave a green light for them to do that, because they wanted to kind of incorporate these modern elements to it. And off the grid is not the only modern term we hear throughout the first season. You know, there's the Jaskier saying things like sexy and stuff, which is probably not very medieval fantasy like as well. So—
ALYSSA: Right.
JESS: But I like that they do that. I think that's what the Witcher is. It's, like, this weird combination of, yes, it's medieval fantasy, but it's also very reflective of modern times in the way people behave. And I think that's the way the books are too even if they don't use modern language. I think that's the vibe of the property. There are things about it that feel very modern. Like, people's actions and the way they treat each other and the humor and weird situations. So, I don't mind that stuff. I think it fits kind of the quirky feel of the show.
CHARLI: He doesn't taken seriously. And that's the important part.
ALYSSA: Yeah, that's the one thing that does a nice job of, like, translating from the books for the most part. The books are so self-referential, and very meta, and, like, very weird. And, so, it's nice to see that some of that got translated.
JESS: So, I think it – it fits pretty well.
ALYSSA: I mean the outcome of Yennefer's conversation with this mysterious sorcerer is that, ultimately, she starts giving magical consultations. So, she has a line outside the door. And, when we see her, she's giving a consultation to a couple with erectile dysfunction, which she then cures with what's basically – I don't know anything about drug culture. What is it?
JESS: Honest Trailer has referred to this as boner weed.
CHARLI: Yeah, so good.
JESS: I think it's good to show this too, because it's sort of referenced in the books at times that that's how she makes money.
ALYSSA: Mhmm.
JESS: It’s doing magic for people dealing with reproductive health, pregnancy, all that stuff, because that's something she's really invested in for herself.
ALYSSA: Mhmm.
JESS: So, of course, she would get really, really good at it.
ALYSSA: Mhmm.
JESS: And then help other people with it. So, I'm glad that they had that in the show. The couple is really cute actually. I thought the scene was really nice.
CHARLI: They’re German actors.
JESS: Yes.
ALYSSA: What did he call her? Schnucki? “Let's get out of here, schnucki”?
CHARLI: Schnucki, it translates to, I guess, sweetie pie.
ALYSSA: Yeah, it was cute.
JESS: And I think her, her magical bead. It was a practical effect. It was, like, actually a little smoke cartridge in there and then, actually, like, she was actually blowing smoke in that guy's face.
ALYSSA: And, Charli, you had a note about, like, the musical approach to that magic as well, right?
CHARLI: Yeah, I noticed that, throughout the series, they use wind chimes to reflect the magic musically. And that's actually a very common thing to do. I've noticed that in a lot of TV shows and movies that deal with magical situations. And wind chimes are kind of always in there.
ALYSSA: Do you think there's, like, a reason for that? Or is it more just kind of, like, an industry standard at this point? Or is there, like, kind of a visceral --
JESS: I wonder how far back that goes in, in films, because it's definitely in the Harry Potter movies. I mean the opening theme is, like, chimes.
CHARLI: I think it was even in, like, some older Disney movies, where you have, like, Tinkerbell and Peter Pan and stuff like that.
ALYSSA: Mhmm.
CHARLI: And it's just this very fairy quality that it has to it. This kind of otherworldly. You can't quite put your finger on it.
JESS: Yeah, it makes sense. It's, like, you can't see that someone did something, but the wind blows and you hear wind chimes. So, you’ve a signal that something is going on. It's definitely a way to cue the audience that, like, there's magical stuff happening.
ALYSSA: Right. It's, like – what movie is that? It's, like, my love is like the wind. You can't see it, but you could feel it. I don't remember what it is. But it's – I guess it's the same.
JESS: Actually, I don't know, but that's a cheesy line.
ALYSSA: Oh, it's so – like, for some reason, I imagine John Cena saying it. Not for any good reason, but because he did a really excellent parody on SNL about being someone who was employed by someone who worked at an Erotica Bookstore. It's very silly, but, yeah, that’s what it reminds me of.
“LATE NIGHT ALYSSA”: Hey! It’s Late Night Alyssa. So this quote is 1000% from the 2002 classic, A Walk to Remember starring Mandy Moore and Shane West and was not said by John Cena but, the link to John Cena’s 2017 SNL sketch, Romance Bookstore, is in this episode’s show notes at breakfastinbeauclair.com.
ALYSSA: We kind of, very briefly, talked about the localization and the accent. Did you want to talk about that any further?
CHARLI: I think it's very interesting that they went, for whatever reason, with a German accent for the people in Rinde. I'm wondering if they'll keep that up, because, as you noted Jess, Rinde is in Redania in the books. We don't notice any particular, like, accents for, like, all the Nilfgaardians and stuff. So, it's just—
JESS: Yeah. [Inaudible 15:40].
CHARLI: —this one town that has an accent. And I mean it's funny. And it's maybe a nod to the books where we have that. You know, people from different backgrounds and regions talking, you know, in this – in that manner, but it was funny.
ALYSSA: Yeah, that's interesting what you say about the Nilfgaardians not having a specific accent. Granted, we don't hear many Nilfgaardian characters speak, we hear Cahir and Fringilla, throughout this episode, actually. Like, the Nilfgaardian accent is supposedly strong in the books.
CHARLI: Then, again, neither Fringilla nor Cahir are from Nilfgaard, are they?
ALYSSA: Who knows anymore?
JESS: There's a book change.
ALYSSA: Umm, yep, that's – that's gonna be an interesting thing to tackle.
JESS: Those two, yeah. Let’s just see what they do.
CHARLI: Mhmm.
ALYSSA: After we kind of get a few of these scenes with Yennefer to establish the story and the setting, we're brought to a lake shore with Jaskier’s voice opening up the scene. He meets Geralt who is fishing for a djinn. Eventually, Geralt finds the djinn. He and Jaskier start fighting over the amphora that it's held in, breaking it, and releasing the djinn to utter chaos as usual.
JESS: Obviously, there's a time jump. Jaskier talks about how they haven't seen each other in years. It didn't age Jaskier at all. So, that's not very obvious. I think Lauren admitted that they should have made him look older. I don't understand why they randomly met at this lake. They could have done the entire story, but had them already hanging out and having this conversation. So, it was kind of a strange choice. Not only does Geralt randomly know there's a djinn in the lake, but, also, randomly, Jaskier just, like, wanders by. And they're the only people at this lake. So, I'm not sure why they had them sort of separated. But, obviously, they had to make changes here, because there's a through line with the sleeplessness – Geralt’s sleeplessness. That's, like, a plot thing that they added that I think works very well, but they had to add that conversation about Jaskier calling him out on it. We're not inside Geralt's head to know how he's feeling. So, we have to have this conversation. Jaskier calls him out on his guilt or maybe he just doesn't want the responsibility. And something is really bothering him that he has this child of surprise now that he's, like, avoiding. And it's really frustrating for him. So, they had to add that, but I still think it's kind of weird that he and Jaskier, like, weren’t hanging out.
CHARLI: But then, again, their friendship is so different. So, maybe they didn't want them to, like, be that close that they travel constantly. So, they just happen upon each other by chance. Maybe it's destiny bringing them together on the show. You know, Jaskier’s throat needs a medical remedy. So, that's the reason why they go seek out Yennefer in the first place. He, like, brings up this, like, dangerous witch that he's just seen. This is the only reason that Geralt asks about Yennefer and goes back to see her. So, maybe there is a destiny component in that. So --
JESS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: To go back to something that you said, Jess, what do you think it is about Geralt’s sleeplessness as a plot point that was successful?
JESS: I think it allowed them to have a more concise First Wish. Yes, the First Wish, the book, turned into a whole long running joke. You needed multiple characters to maintain. So, they needed a different First Wish. Something very simple. It also gave us insight into where Geralt is as a character in terms of what he's dealing with internally because, again, not only are we not inside his head, but we don't have Yennefer reading his mind like she does in the books and knowing what he's thinking. You know, if they had done that on the show, that would have been maybe another way to have known how he felt about things. But we don't have that either. And he doesn't say much. So, that's kind of the only way you can show his struggles. It also allowed for another element to Geralt and Yennefer's relationship later on. When he's with her, sleeplessness isn't an issue anymore. So, it adds like a nice little element to their relationship. So, by doing that, they sort of gave themselves a nice simple thing that they could use in many ways to establish relationships and character and emotional places that they're in.
ALYSSA: The reason why I questioned it, especially the first time, was, one, given my knowledge of the books, like, it seemed rather arbitrary that he would just be like, “I'm restless.” And it's like, “But what do you need a genie for?” So, it's trying to decipher, like, as an audience, how honest is he being to himself to Jaskier, how much truth is there to what he’s actually saying versus what we actually have to decipher as an audience member.
JESS: Yeah, it also gives another element to the show, which is in the scene where he and Yennefer are talking in the bath. Geralt figures out something about her that she didn't tell him. He just knows from observing. And, so, the sleeplessness element gives something for Yennefer to know about him. He didn't tell her. That's not really what's going on. There's something else going on that’s he’s doing here. So, it gives them things to find out about each other, because they read each other very well. It gives something else for her to clock on him. So, I think it serves a lot of purposes in the story. I think it worked really well actually. And it shows the Geralt’s sort of in denial, you know. He didn't want the child surprise and he still doesn't want it, but he's kind of got a heart of gold. And, so, it does bother him that there's this kid out there that he's sort of rejected. He’s not dealing with. Yeah.
CHARLI: Which is I think, also, important to, to see for the audience that, yeah, he does care and the reason why he claimed the child by accident in the previous episode. You know, he's not like this harsh, you know, hard exterior kind of dude, who goes and takes away a baby or something, you know, and then doesn't care for her. He's a soft core.
JESS: If we're talking about, like, successfully adapting something in order to make it work for a different medium, I think adding this sleeplessness thing worked for this episode really well.
ALYSSA: And, Charli, you had a couple notes about the way that the score moves through the scene as well.
CHARLI: Yeah, I just noticed the other day when I watched the episode again that the previous scene is in Brokilon Forest with Ciri and the dryads. And, as this scene ends and the Sword of Destiny is brought up, Geralt’s theme starts swelling up in the background. And we can still hear it as we move into the lake shore scene. And I think that's a nice touch. You know, imagining the Sword of Destiny and then having Geralt’s theme as a kind of, you know, preview on things to come so to speak. That worked really well, I think. And then, of course, we hear it again throughout the scene when there is the action with the djinn going on and he had just attack Jaskier. And Geralt is, again, you know, the one who saves his ass and aards the djinn away and stuff. So, yeah, I think that's another good example of how the music, you know, ties everything up really nicely.
ALYSSA: They really did such a lovely, lovely job throughout the series with the score.
JESS: The first time we see the djinn, it doesn't look the way it's described in the books. They went with, like, a very black smoky thing, which I thought was kind of interesting just because I was hoping for it to be a little bit more memorable looking. Identifiable. Obviously, it doesn't have to look like Robin Williams’ genie in the Aladdin, but, like, something with a little bit more menacing look. The way it's described in the book is kind of crazy too. But I think it was – this is probably the least expensive version of a djinn you could do on a TV show to be honest.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: Just put some black smoke in there.
ALYSSA: It's kind of funny. Like, looking back at the artwork that I originally did for The Last Wish back in, like, September or October, if you look at, like, Episode 6. What I pulled for the artwork for that episode ultimately does look like what they went with for the show.
JESS: Oh, really?
ALYSSA: Just this very, like, skinny, like, shadowy thing. And I was like, “This is the closest I could find.”
JESS: I mean it makes sense if you're, like, the djinn is kind of really the least important element of this story. It's just like a catalyst for what's happening. You don't need it to look crazy, but I would have liked it to be a little bit more. That golden dragon is pretty memorable, you know. Or, like, even I'm sure Nivellen. You can picture that, that monster that Geralt fights like the Leshen and stuff from the game.
ALYSSA: To have a character monster like that be incredibly memorable also adds like a branding aspect to the show that I think they don't always have. Like, when you think about, like, monsters in Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, like, they're all very brandable. Like, you can make merchandise with them.
JESS: You probably wouldn't make a striga. But you can't make $1 out of this smoky djinn. No, I agree with you that that's definitely – that's just missed.
CHARLI: I do kind of want a djinn birthday cake now though if someone's up for the challenge somewhere.
ALYSSA: Oh, my god, it's like negative carbs. It's like just made up of celery and smoke.
CHARLI: Perfect.
JESS: Black cotton candy.
ALYSSA: Ooh, that's creative. I guess there's a little bit to talk through here. Geralt and Jaskier fight over the amphora. It breaks. Jaskier starts making wishes, like, into the lake in the direction that the djinn went. And Geralt gets cut and then shouts out for Jaskier to be quiet. And then Jaskier’s throat just swells. And that's kind of where that lake scene ends. Geralt then rides to the closest town in search of a sorcerer or medical aid at all. He ends up in this medical tent with this elf. They pronounced it differently, I think, in the show than we did in the podcast. I think in the podcast we said Chireadan. Did they say Chireadan in the – in the show?
CHARLI: They said Chireadan. Yeah. And I read the books in German when I first read them. So, there was no reason for me to pronounce it like Chu. When I read it throughout the short story, every time I came upon his name, I kind of pronounced it differently than I did before. Chireadan, something like that. It was really weird.
JESS: Well, everyone else in Rinde is German. So, maybe that is how it's supposed to be pronounced. A little bit more like that maybe.
CHARLI: Yeah, they didn't think this through at all.
ALYSSA: Well, it's – I think all of us are just generally in good company. Like, nobody knows how to pronounce anything in The Witcher universe.
JESS: The weird thing is like there's already an audio book and a video game. So, when they say things like Tissaia, I'm, like, no one said it that way in any of the other properties. Why did someone on set go, “We’re gonna change it?”
ALYSSA: Or Melitele.
CHARLI: Melitele.
JESS: That’s said in different ways throughout the show, which I don't mind because people do that in real life.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: I think it would be very Witcher if it got a Meta and someone else is like, “Wait. What?” Oh, you know, the temple. And I’m like, “Oh, no, Melitele” or whatever.
ALYSSA: Geralt tries to seek medical aid from this elf. I'm just gonna call him Chireadan. Could I do that? He seeks help from this elf. And the elf sends him off to a sorcerer in town. Before the elf can give him any additional information about who the sorcerer is, Geralt just rides off.
JESS: I did like, in the end of that scene, like, it's a little bit frantic. He's, like, making him all that serious and telling him, “This is what you need and blah, blah, blah.” And Jaskier is, like, coughing and, like, “Oh, god.” And then, as soon as he's like telling him about this sorceress, his, like, line delivery is very slow. And you're like, “This guy is dying, man.” It’s just a nice way to show that, yeah, he has a serious soft spot for, at this point, unknown. Although I think most people watching the show figure it out.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: Although he – the way he describes her is like, “She's malicious and blah, blah.” And I'm like, “Say one nice thing about her. You're obviously in love with her.”
ALYSSA: Yeah, he doesn't really do a good job in either direction of telling Geralt, “This isn't a good idea, but also telling him that like this is the only person who can help you.” He kind of flounders back and forth. And then, ultimately, just isn't useful at all.
JESS: Yeah. I mean the most useful thing he could have done is says, “She's a really beautiful sorceress, but she will screw you over. So, be very careful.”
ALYSSA: Watch out.
JESS: I mean why didn't he just give him some actual advice?
ALYSSA: With that, Geralt just kind of takes Jaskier and goes on his way. And, presumably, around the time that this is happening, we get dropped into Yennefer's quarters in Beau Berrant’s house. This is the man who arrested her earlier in the chapter. I don't even know if I mentioned that. When she was giving consultations, someone came in and arrested her. This is the mayor of Rinde. In the scene, we’re dropped into Yennefer's quarters and Tissaia comes and visits her unexpectedly.
JESS: This is an odd scene. I think, even the opening line about, like, pain. I was like, “What?”
ALYSSA: I didn't get it. I still don't get it to be honest.
JESS: I mean I don't know what she's referring to. I mean she likes playing with people, I guess, to achieve her own ends, but it doesn't quite paint to me necessarily. And that's how they open the conversation even though they haven't seen each other in, like, 20 years or something. But, I guess, if you live for hundreds of years, then that's not a very long time. So, you can just pick up where you left off. Tissaia comes with very legitimate advice. She's like, “You were working in Aedirn. Now, you're not and you're doing all this stuff on your own. And people are noticing. And you might get in trouble. And here's an out. You can come back and work at Aretuza with me.” And Yennefer's just very pleased with her in a way that I don't know that it's totally justified, especially when she offers to come back to Aretuza. Obviously, Yennefer has, like, feelings about that place and what she thinks of it, but, to immediately throw that in Tissaia’s face that, “I'm going to be better than you and Beau,” it felt like something had happened that we didn't see or something. It's – something about it was a little bit off.
CHARLI: It was very out of blue. Mhmm.
ALYSSA: I think there are a few moments of character development that we kind of miss and/or, you know, told about later throughout the series. So, when we saw Yennefer in Episode 3, Betrayer Moon, that was her at the end of her time at Aretuza closing with her transformation and, ultimately, her acceptance into Aedirn’s court. And then Episode 4, Banquets, Bastards, and Burials, sees us now 30 years after that Aretuza banquet. So, now, we're maybe anywhere from, like, 40, 50, or so after her time in Aretuza. And that banquet, we're told, is the last time that Tissaia has seen Yennefer.
JESS: Yeah. And you don't get a sense, from previous discussions they've had, that she would be that upset about what she did at the banquet, because she wanted her to go to Aedirn. Obviously, it sort of undermined what their plans were, but I don't think deep down she would have been that set that Yennefer sort of pulled this little stunt and got those things she wanted. You know, you feel like, on the inside, Tissaia would have been like – even I'm saying her name both ways in this podcast. You think – you feel like she would have been like, “Well, good for you, I guess, you know. As long as you're doing your job.” So, you don't get a sense that she'd be upset about that. And she came with – again, with very solid advice, very solid information about what the Brotherhood thought. So, yeah, it feels like something was missing. There was some conversation they had that we didn't see.
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: I mean unless Yennefer is supposed to just be sort of spiteful toward everyone. But, again, there's nothing to show that that's the case either.
CHARLI: Maybe she's in a rebellious phase right now. I also kind of didn't understand why Tissaia asked her why she wanted a baby because she knows that Yennefer has this – she's afraid of not having anyone's love. And that's even what she told her in Aretuza. It’s like, “You lie. You deceive. Blah, blah, blah. Even if you were beautiful, no one would ever love you.” So, she's actually kind of the first person who should know why maybe Yen would want someone to care for and to care about her. So—
JESS: Especially since she and Yennefer have a little bit of that relationship. And she has that with her students. You know, she says, “Aretuza is all I have,” later on in the show. And it's, like, she understands how important it is to mentor people and have those relationships.
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: But I can see her being kind of, like, a baby in the sense of, like, actually raising, like, an infant.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
CHARLI: Yeah. Yeah.
JESS: Nothing about Yennefer says that would be interesting to her – you know what I mean – on the surface? Yeah.
ALYSSA: I think this is one of the things where, because the time jumps are so great, it's sometimes is hard to see the connection and the character development from episode to episode. So, we, as an audience, kind of have to fill in the gaps and assume how these characters have developed and what has triggered them. We're not really sure, at what point, Yennefer abandoned her post Aedirn. We don't know if it was immediately after Queen Kalis was assassinated. We don't know if it was a number of years or decades after, but we do know it's been long enough that the previous King has died.
JESS: How much she wanted to go there. And, now, she's getting the updates and she just does not care.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: She really doesn't care.
ALYSSA: I think that might be because we had heard, in the previous episode, when she was initially talking to Kalis in the opening scene, that she basically sees herself in the court as, like, a royal bottom wiper for a lack of a better term. So, maybe she just felt purposeless there.
JESS: And I think she definitely did. Yeah. A conversation like this fits into Yennefer overall, her feeling useless or wanting different things and this and that. I think it works in that sense. But I think, in terms of, like, for the audience going from this point in the previous episode to this point in her relationship with Tissaia in this episode is where it feels like something is missing.
CHARLI: Very, very quick.
ALYSSA: And then, the following scene, Yennefer eventually dismisses Tissaia. I think she says like, “You may go, Rectoress.” Something really, really dismissive and very curt.
JESS: They always call her that when they're annoyed with her. There’s the rectoress. All of them, when they're like, done with her.
ALYSSA: And, so, yeah, Yennefer dismises Tissaia. And the next scene that we get is Geralt riding up to Beau Berrant’s home in which he snacks, you know, the porter as he just in the books with the money when the porter tells him that money opens up doors. Geralt brings a Jaskier into the home in which they run into the man of the house, Beau Berrant, who is in the kitchen, naked, looking for apple juice. Eventually, Beau passes out in his kitchen. And Geralt then takes the apple juice and goes looking for Yennefer. He, ultimately, finds her in the midst of this orgy that she has created. And Geralt has a conversation with her about what he's doing there and what he needs and reveals that he has a djinn or that a djinn attacked Jaskier before she becomes incredibly interested and cuts off this orgy.
JESS: The origin is a strange choice, I think, because, obviously, they wanted to show that Yennefer has really strong, like, mind control powers because of what happens later in the episode. She's really good at getting into people's heads and making them do what she wants. We already see that with Beau. And they could have showed it also with the porter. They could have made him seem like he was the way Beau Berrant was, , which is he’s sort of out of it. So, I don't know that they needed this, especially when the spell was over because everybody in there seemed like they had no idea what was going on. And I was like, “Did Yennefer just sexually assault, like, 200 people? Like, what is this?” Also, added, I guess, maybe to the comedy a little bit of the scene, but that was a sort of an odd choice, I thought. It just was like, “What am I supposed to be learning about Yennefer that she's doing this?” I know someone said, “Well, it shows that her powers are stronger than when she conjured those people—
ALYSSA: Right.
JESS: —when she was with Istredd.” But this is a different kind of magic. In that one, she was conjuring people from nothing. This is about mind control, which, again, is a plot point in the episode. It’s her ability to mind control, but I don't know about having this huge orgy. It just was like, “Why would you – why would you do that anyway? Like, you're bored. You're having a party. All these people come over. And then you just put a spell on all of them and then just sit there, and you're not doing anything?” Like, there's a lot of elements of it that just seem like, “What is she doing? I don't know.”
ALYSSA: Charli, what are your thoughts on this scene?
CHARLI: At first, when I first saw it, I was the same as you. I didn't really know what purpose it served. And then the other day, I realized that maybe what they wanted to show with that is that she has the Rinde authorities in her pocket. You know, they collect taxes from people who use magic and Beau Berrant – Beau Berrant came and, you know, arrested her and told her she couldn't do what she wanted. And maybe this was kind of her way to get back at them, you know, and get some kind of pleasure out of the fact that she had the upper hand in the end.
JESS: The problem is we don't know who any of those people are.
CHARLI: I know. Yeah.
JESS: It’s, like, I don't know that those are, like, the priest from the book, you know, that she's – that she's messing with.
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: They’re just random people. And she gets her revenge on Beau for sure, but that makes a lot of sense. But it was if you knew that those were people that she didn't like.
ALYSSA: Like, some of the curious things, I think, about that scene where I think both of you touched on it. Like, generally, what purpose does it serve? And, if you think about the thing that's, you know, at the front of Yennefer's motivations, it's really a desire to feel loved and feel purpose and to be wanted unconditionally. It's curious that, like, she has this orgy in which she presumably, like, could be wanted under the spell. But then I think, as you said Jess, she doesn't actually take part in it. So, is she serving a purpose and giving other people that experience? Like, why would she take the opportunity to go and do this?
JESS: Yeah, that would work to, again, if when they came out of the spell, they were all happy that they were there. But they weren't. They were confused. And this issue that she was not at all interested in until Geralt came in. And then she was like really flirtatious, which I didn't notice until I watched it the second time. And I was like, “She was just sitting there waiting for a hottie to walk in to, like, finally have some fun herself. I mean the way it did work was to make Geralt seem very out of place. And that added to some of the humor. And it also added to her being the person that he needed. Even the way they shot it, she’s sort of standing on those stairs looking down at him. Yeah.
ALYSSA: I also wonder if, by having an entire room full of people – because, in the books, Yennefer has a sexual relationship with Beau Berrant. But, in the show, in having that whole room of people, it kind of removes her from that sexual relationship with Beau. So, it just turns into, like, this whole thing. So, I wonder if that was also part of the decision, because, aside from Istredd and Geralt, she doesn't have any relationships, like, external affairs throughout the show.
JESS: Yeah, that's interesting, too, because I think, when Anya was interviewed about it, she talked about how Yennefer uses her sexuality. And I'm like, “Doesn't really. She's using her magic to control people. She's not using her sexuality.” She does a little bit with Geralt in this episode, like you said, in the book. She has that affair with Beau. Like, she's actually sleeping with this guy and, because of that, that’s the only reason she can stay in Rinde because she has him in her pocket and she has that relationship. It feels like they've toned down that side to her a little bit, but she is very --
ALYSSA: She's, like, cunning. Yeah.
JESS: Yeah. She likes being in control. She likes to plot things, but she wants to be very outspoken and straightforward about how she feels about things. But she doesn't really sexually manipulate. I mean she magically sexually manipulated all those people in that room, but to no end really, because, like you said, if it was to get revenge, we don't know that those people were people she wanted to get revenge on in the first place. They didn't explain that. So, it's really interesting. I mean the good thing the scene did was to establish that these two actors, who chemistry with each other, which is important for the long term.
CHARLI: I think they pulled that off really well, the infatuation with these two. I think the chemistry was really good throughout the scene. Yeah, they just made her less sexually manipulative as in the books, but more flirtatious and way. But that's not the same thing kind of so. I get where you're coming from that she doesn't really use her sexuality. And I also think that it would have added to the scene if she had actually taken, at least, a sip from the apple juice he brought her, because they established, just moments before in the kitchen, Beau is, like, she always gets what she wants. And it's kind of weird that she wants the apple juice. And then she just discards it. I mean maybe that's to show how you know star struck she is seeing Geralt.
JESS: Yeah, she was too distracted by this hottie that walked in. Also, she didn't need the apple – like, in the book, she needs the apple juice for a very specific reason. And she doesn't need any here. She's just chillin’. She’s fine.
CHARLI: Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah.
ALYSSA: Right after this initial moment, which they kind of first meet and it's, like, kind of high passion, a lot of flirtation. After Geralt says that a djinn attacked Jaskier, Yennefer is immediately much more interested and invested in why he’s here. So, she cuts off all the music, stops the spell with the word Ragamuffin, and then immediately dismisses everybody. And, as we've said, everyone's kind of in a panic looking for their clothes and rushing out kind of confused.
JESS: I mean you could at least let us sleep here after you put us through all of these.
ALYSSA: It's definitely big enough for some blankets and beanbags. And, in the following scene, we get this very small intimate moment presumably in, like, a kitchen of sorts, where Yennefer and Geralt have a conversation. The scene is almost pulled exactly from the books. It's a very quiet, you know, lead in from the previous scene to the ones that follow in which Yennefer just asks Geralt to take a bath.
CHARLI: Iconic.
JESS: Yeah, she has the famous line about how badly he smells.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: It is interesting that she brought him close. Like, she was out there healing Jaskier. And that’s all she could think about. It was like, “God, he smells terrible, but he's so good looking. And maybe I'll just make him some new clothes and get him in the bathtub.”
ALYSSA: And, Charli, again, with the music and the scene, how would you say it impacted the overall storytelling and what role did the score play in this part of the plot?
CHARLI: In the bath scene?
ALYSSA: Mhmm.
CHARLI: The music really stood out to me, because there's a few interesting elements about it. One of them is that, personally, I don't know if that was the intention. I could imagine that it was, but it has some, you know, elements in it that remind me of Renaissance dances. You know, the slower-paced concert music kind of stuff that they would play, you know, Elizabethan Courts and stuff like that, you know, and stuff that you hear in those type of movies and TV shows as well. And I think that is a really nice reflection of their verbal sparring match that they have in this scene. You know, like dancing, prancing around each other, insulting each other, but, at the same time, flirting with each other. And, so, I think that was really nice. And, also, what I realized the other day watching it – I don't know. I was excited when I realized it. It was Yennefer's instrument in the series is an oboe. And, in this scene, you can hear the oboe playing Geralt’s theme. And I think that's very telling and encapsules their relationship that's to come from this really nicely.
JESS: Yeah.
CHARLI: And I love that. I love that they did that.
ALYSSA: I just got chills from you just saying that.
JESS: It’s like foreshadowing through the music.
ALYSSA: It's really beautiful. The music producers behind the show do a really beautiful job of, like, weaving those stories and those vocalized and unvocalized intentions and desires throughout the show into the score.
JESS: I was gonna say another example of a very smart adaptation, not only in terms of having a good interaction between the actors but also budget wise. It was having Yennefer not turn invisible here to have them in the bath together, where he can't see her just as he can't in the books. But they still have something to act off of. There's something still very intimate about it as they're sitting with their backs to each other. I thought that was a really smart decision.
ALYSSA: And the composition of just having them be parallel like that is really beautiful. And then you could see, like, proportionally, like, just how huge Henry Cavill really is.
CHARLI: Yes.
JESS: Sometimes, you don't think about it too much when he’s by himself. And then you see him next to other people. Sometimes, I feel bad for the horse even. Like, when he had Jaskier with him on the horse.
CHARLI: Oh, god.
JESS: I was, like, this is a scene that I had another moment where I wasn't sure what they were trying to say. Just how the scene ends. He says, “After I’ve paid for your kind services, blah, blah, blah.” And she says, “Well, I've decided that your company and conversation is enough.” And then he is very annoyed and gets out of the bathtub. And I was like, “Is he under the impression that he was going to pay for services by sleeping with her? And, now, he's upset because he's not going to get laid.”
CHARLI: I hope not.
JESS: So, he get out of the bathtub. Like, I didn't quite follow what she meant by that. And then she – at the very end, she says, “What's the matter? Water doesn't suit.” I was like, “I have no idea what they're talking about.”
CHARLI: No, same. I, I have no clue. I've been wondering that ever since the first time I saw it. I just don't understand what they're getting at here. It doesn't make any sense. So, that makes me think that it's editing and that it just got, you know, edited out.
ALYSSA: I think the only other possible explanation would be that, when she says her services would be free, maybe he's annoyed because he knows well enough that he's going to have a price to pay. Like, it's going to be something unexpected. It's going to be something that he potentially can't afford. It's going to be something that's going to be a lot more painful to him than just coin.
JESS: Wait. But he said, at the beginning, when he gave her the thing, didn't he, that, “Whatever you ask, I'll pay it.”
ALYSSA: He does say that. And then, when they actually get into the tub, I think, he's like, “Did I just signed myself up for indentured servitude? I'm afraid I can't afford to.” Maybe it's the skepticism.
JESS: But why is he mad then?
ALYSSA: I don't know.
JESS: That’s the thing I don’t get. He's, like, very annoyed and he gets out of the bathtub. And I'm like, “Shouldn't he be relieved?”
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: Great. We're even. See you. So, there's a couple moments in this episode where I, like, wish I could ask the showrunner, “What was that supposed to mean?” And this is one of those moments where I just don't quite follow. Yeah, it is a great scene all the way through. I think seeing them peel things back on each other without ever saying anything. He notices that she's had something done to her physically. He notices the scars on her wrists. She realizes that his wish for sleep isn't really about sleep. Like, there's something else beneath it that's causing it. If it had been about sleep, he could have just asked her to fix it and he didn't. And she points that out. So, I think maybe, more so than other characters, they sort of understand each other a little bit. They understand that there's other things going on deeper that they both have a lot of baggage. They both have a lot that they don't say. So, in that sense, it was very nice scene, I think.
CHARLI: Yeah, now that you said scars, that's – you know, she looks at his scars, studies his scars. And, a minute later, he refers to her scars on her wrist. So, it's like she notices his and he notices hers. And that's kind of a common ground they have as well. So, one of the things on their common ground. It's a very symmetrical scene.
ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah.
CHARLI: The way they're sitting back to back and then what they say to each other. And—
JESS: They both think very, like, smart comments. And, you know—
CHARLI: Yeah. Yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And whatever kind of, like, trust and vulnerability that they have there is kind of broken down in the second scene. Before we get to the… climax of Geralt and Yennefer’s storyline, we’re going to hand it off to Lars from Witcherflix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, Charli, Jess, and I will continue our discussion of “Bottled Appetites.”
“Tidings from Toussaint”
[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]
LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody. If you're craving for new material from the Witcher on Netflix, your prayers were answered. Netflix released not one, but two documentaries about Season 1 of the Witcher show.
The first one is called Making the Witcher. The whole crew (including actors, writers, producers, designers and other people from the set) describe what working on Season 1 of The Witcher was like. In addition, the documentary goes into extensive detail when it comes to the creative work. Writer Sneha Koorse, for example, talked about how the writing process went: "In the writer's room for the Witcher we get together and we bat around ideas for a while until we have a clearer picture of what we're doing for this season and once we do that, we go into individual episodes and draw from the books. Like, ‘What from the books do we want to bring into this season?’ Once we decide that Lauren sends us off and we write our individual scripts and we have certain story lines that carry through from one episode to another that we keep batting back and forth to make sure that we're always giving new information to the audience." The run time for Making the Witcher is 32 minutes and it's out now on Netflix.
The other new documentary is called The Witcher: A Look inside the Episodes. This is where showrunner Lauren Hissrich takes the center stage. In 8 episodes (each 5-8 minutes long), she talks about the story of Season 1 and its characters and what the thought process behind writing this season looked like. Lauren revealed some interesting tidbits that gave new perspectives on things that are much talked about in Season 1. For example, she talks about Ciri's adventure in Brokilon forest and the mystery surrounding the dryads' holy tree. Lauren said: "Shan-Kayan is a tree, which the dryads are worshipping. There's a voice at the end that booms: ‘What are you, child?’ and it's the first inclination that the dryads have that [Ciri] is special, that there's something bigger about her. But as the series continues, much, much later, we're gonna start to get into exactly what voice was speaking to her and what agenda that voice has. It's a mystery, actually, that we're gonna keep building up throughout the series.”
As if that wasn't enough, showrunner Lauren Hissrich also did a nice, little Q&A on Twitter where she revealed even more secrets about Season 1. She revealed that they left the actors room for improvising. Lauren said: "The worst thing I can do is not leave room for breathing and adjusting in scenes. The actors embody these characters for so long, and often have great pitches that strike a specific tone. Jaskier's entire speech about berries in Ep 106 was on the fly."
Moreover, Lauren answered the question what is was like to work with MyAnna Buring, the actress who played Tissaia de Vries. She said: "MyAnna is a pro, prepared and spot-on and pulled together, exactly like her character. She's also a mother in real life, and held me in her arms the very first time my kids had to leave after a visit to Budapest because I felt so broken. She is kindness, epitomized."
In addition, Lauren was also asked about her favorite scene in Season 1 that used a lot of special effects. She answered: "The Battle of Sodden. Hands down. Magical portals, arrows, fire, oh and also it was shot in two different countries and then all joined together in post (production)."
In other news, the casting process for the Witcher prequel miniseries Blood Origin has already begun. Just like for the main show, Sophia Holland Casting in charge. Blood Origin will consist of 6 episodes and is set 1200 years before the events of The Witcher and will likely start filming next year. And of course, as soon as casting starts, there are rumors floating around: According to Redanian Intelligence, Netflix is looking to cast Jason Momoa for Blood Origin. He is best known for roles such as Khal Drogo on Game of Thrones and Aquaman. According to Redanian Intelligence's sources, Netflix wants to cast him as the first witcher ever created. The overall source for this rumor is Production Weekly, a professional and reliable website collecting data on projects in the film and TV business. So, hard to say how legit this rumor this. But the thought alone that Jason Momoa could play a witcher, is awesome enough. Of course, Jason already added fuel to the fire when he posted an Instagram story showing a picture of himself as a witcher next to Henry Cavill as Geralt. Well, we will see.
And lastly what's new for the main show? According to Redanian Intelligence, the cast and crew are filming a big action scene. It takes place in the set for Kaer Morhen and involves several witchers: Geralt, Ciri, Vesemir, Lambert, Eskel, Coen and several original witchers (among them a new character named Hemrik). The original witchers are mostly played by stuntmen.
In other main show news, Redanian Intelligence reported that the Witcher production prepares to film at Fountains Abbey in North Yorkshire, UK. The ruins of a monastery founded in 1132 had been visited by the Witcher crew several times before, most recently by Season 2 director Sarah O’Gorman. Of course, the question now is: What scenes could they be filming at Fountains Abbey? The obvious answer is that the ruins could serve as the Witcher fortress of Kaer Morhen which will play an important role in Season 2. Another possibility is that the abbey could portray Shaerrawedd, a ruined palace of the elves that appears in the book Blood of Elves.
Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!
[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]
ALYSSA: Hey, everyone! Welcome back from the break. I’m here with Charli and Jess discussing “Bottled Appetites” from Netflix’s The Witcher. When we left off, Geralt had sought out Yennefer to heal Jaskier after a djinn attack. After their fateful meeting and moments of vulnerability between the witcher and sorceress, Yennefer’s intentions are revealed. In the scene that follows, Geralt discovers Yennefer's intention to kind of, like, capture this djinn. The drawing from the top of the seal is inscribed onto the floor. There's candles. Jaskier is kind of on the bed in a coma of some sort. Geralt realizes that Yennefer is trying to capture the djinn.
JESS: Yes, this was an odd scene to follow the previous one. I think it was kind of the way it was shot. She looks very small. And they use a lot of wide shots in it. So, you can see the Pentagram floor. So, you can see all that, but there's something about, like, her posture and the way she was standing next to him in parts of the scene that didn't feel like she was in control. Like, in that scene, she's very much in control because what she's doing, you find out at the end, is she's very slowly working her way into his mind to get him to do what she wants and to get him to reveal information. So, there's little elements in it about the way it was shot that felt like they weren't conveying what we were supposed to feel about it. He wasn't flirtatious, but she also wasn't this proud sorceress either. She was somewhere in the middle. Like, she was just waiting for him to finally click and feel it, I guess. It's the first appearance too, I think, though of her perfume, which is kind of an important—
CHARLI: Yeah, I thought it was interesting that she actively uses her scent as a weapon in this scene. And I mean she kind of does – in the book, it kind of has this effect on people. At this point, she doesn't, like, put it on just to put someone under a spell or something. So, I thought it was interesting, but then, again, I get why they did that because it's TV and they have to show stuff to people. You know, we are not in Geralt's head. We don't read about how he's obsessed with her scent throughout the entire short story. So—
JESS: We don’t know what it smells like until they say it.
CHARLI: Yeah. So, yeah, they kind of have to get that in there.
JESS: Although I think it's interesting, because, the way they brought it in, you could almost assume that the scent is what made him mind control, which we know is not the case. Her perfume doesn’t, like, mind control people. It's her magic, but, because of the way the scene was set up, because he says that scent, lilac and [Inaudible 54:21] gooseberries. And I know some people were like, “Is that what – her control to him is this, this scent.”
CHARLI: I want to try that with my husband.
JESS: I actually have it.
CHARLI: Me too.
JESS: But I do think his performance was good. The way, like, he actually acted out, like, the realizing that she was in his mind and he was, like, frozen. And the whole part I think worked really well.
ALYSSA: And, at the end of this, we do see Geralt fall into some sort of trance. And, ultimately, that scene kind of cuts to black. The scene that follows opens with Geralt coming to in, like, a prison and he's with Chireadan, the elf who we met in the beginning of the episode, who tells him, basically, hangover style, everything that happened to Geralt since the day before. In which, Geralt just went on a rampage through the town beating some of the town council members on Yennefer's behalf.
JESS: This would be a way you could show that those people in the orgy were the people she didn't like. It would be if you could see some of the people in the orgy. And then they actually showed Geralt going and, at least, that's double punishment. That's, like, extra mean.
CHARLI: Yeah, I know.
JESS: Yeah, I know a lot of people, like, wish they would have shown him actually doing this, because it would have been pretty funny. It would have made a ridiculous montage. It would have been very close to being, like, stupid. So, I think they played it safe.
CHARLI: Yeah, too ridiculous, you know.
JESS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: There is a lot for audience member to kind of unearth between the previous scene and this one, though. Like, it's not totally clear that Geralt doing her bidding would be the immediate outcome for Yennefer putting him to sleep. As an audience member, it’s just like, “Wait. Like, how did this happen?” And then they're just in a prison.
JESS: Some people thought she put him in prison. Like, she put him to sleep and then, like, thrown him in jail until the explanation came.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: I watched a lot of reactions to these episodes. And that was one of the things that came up. They were like, “Wait. Did she – did she throw him in jail? Like, did she have him arrested?”
CHARLI: Harsh.
JESS: No. No. She had him do something much more useful.
ALYSSA: Having that be a little unclear, I think, it takes away from how manipulative, like, Yennefer could be. It's very clear, in the books, for example, that she's sending them out to do her bidding. And he has no control over that. It's not totally clear in this series that that's what she's using him for until it kind of gets explained secondhand.
JESS: Same as the sexually manipulating people. Like, her manipulations aren't quite as in your face on the show. Actually, I hopefully, when we get to the book comparison part, to talk about how different Yennefer is in this story than she is in the book, because she's quite different.
CHARLI: I think they just wanted to make her more likeable for a wider audience. And that's why they didn't go as far as making her super manipulative as she is in the books, because that could, you know, throw people off. People would go, “What exactly is the in her?” Because it's difficult, I think, to get that across on TV. So, they kind of tried to find a middle ground here. And I think they did well. I mean it's just different, but it's not bad or anything. So, it works very well.
JESS: It is interesting that they thought about that, because you would think, after what she went through in the first couple episodes, that would be enough for the audience to be on her side in some ways even if she did manipulate Geralt and we did see it much more, you know, in your face, because we understand what she's doing and why she's doing it. We already know about sort of her baby desire. I think they did think they wanted her to be more likeable in a way. And it is interesting that they thought they needed her to be. What came before wouldn't have been enough. They already expanded her entire backstory. I mean, in the books, we don't know anything about her and the first thing you see is pretty intense and pretty – can be pretty malicious and you don't know anything about her.
ALYSSA: That's really a good point. Her likability, as a character, as a heroine, also takes priority along with her own character development.
JESS: It’s unfortunate that happens a lot with female characters, I think. Female characters have to be likable.
CHARLI: Mhmm.
ALYSSA: I’m, like, trying to think of female characters that are really, really vicious that are still likable in their brutality.
JESS: Maybe Cersei Lannister would be one that's not. We like her because she's so terrible.
CHARLI: Yeah, that's true.
JESS: But she's also not the protagonist. Anyway, that's a whole different discussion.
ALYSSA: I'm sure we'll get the opportunity, hopefully, to like talk about brutal female characters down the line, I think. You know, after Geralt wakes up in this prison, we cut back to Yennefer's quarters. And Jaskier awakes as Yennefer prepares herself to capture the djinn and she threatens him into making what she thinks is Jaskier’s Last Wish.
CHARLI: I got to say that I love that Toss A Coin is in this scene almost like a character and throughout the entire season. It's not just a track on a soundtrack or a track we hear as the end credits roll. It's actually incorporated into the world these characters live in. And people sing it in taverns and Jasker brings it up. She prompts him to do some – to practice some scales. And he sings that song that he's become famous with and Geralt became famous with. And it's just so cool that they made it a character. They made the song a character within the Witcher universe almost. It's pretty cool.
ALYSSA: That's a really beautiful way of putting it. We hear kind of secondhand that Jaskier is part of the reason why Geralt become so famous, but it's so concrete in the series, because we get to see the formation of that song all the way through, you know, the rest of the series.
JESS: I thought it was interesting that they have Yennefer, in the scene, painting an amphora on her body that looks like a uterus.
CHARLI: I think that's the intention.
JESS: The orgy scene, we've already talked about, but this would be the one other scene in, in this episode where the nudity, to me, was, like, just unnecessary. It wasn't distracting and then I couldn't pay attention what was going on, but it was sort of – it took me out of the scene. And I think what really did it was her putting her dress back on, but then not covering herself. Like, I don't know any woman that would do that.
CHARLI: Absolutely.
JESS: Especially when the guy on the bed is not the guy she's been flirting with.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: She, like, puts her dress back on and then doesn't cover herself and is just walking around like that. And I was like, “We, we saw the amphora. So, we saw that. That's fine. We get it.” And then, after that, it's like, “I don't understand the reason why. I don't get it.”
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS; Again, like we said before the show, like, I asked other women who watch the show, like, “Did you notice this? Or was it just me?” And they were like, “Yeah, I noticed it too.” So, it's not just, you know, being prudish or whatever. It – I want it to have a purpose, because, again, like, the bathtub scene, you're naked in a bathtub. I had no problem with that. But this is, like, once we see the amphora she draws on, it doesn't need to be there.
CHARLI: Definitely.
ALYSSA: It definitely seemed like more than was necessary. I agree that they probably could have used a tight shot of the amphora. And, because there's a belly button, presumably, around that area, you know, we have context as to what's happening right now.
JESS: I mean, even the nudity at that point, when she's actually drawing it, it's like, “Okay.” But, again, she literally puts her dress on and, like, it's just sort of weird. When it's that much, you start thinking like – like, I don't know, as a woman, I start thinking, “Well, Henry Cavill is not getting naked on the show. She's been naked several times already.” Like, she's like a new actress. And, you know, a new actress, I kind of feel bad for her. And you just start – these thoughts just start creeping in when you're supposed to be focusing on, you know, Jaskier.
CHARLI: It kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
JESS: It does. It leaves a little bit of a strange – yeah. But the – it was funny. Like, Jaskier was funny. Their interaction was really funny. I left my cat on the stove. It was great.
CHARLI: I wonder if he improvised that.
ALYSSA: I wouldn't be surprised if he improvised a lot of lines. Joey Batey specifically.
CHARLI: I think he said in an interview recently that he ended up with many of the lines that were originally Henry Cavill’s because they decided to make Geralt more grunty and [Inaudible 1:02:09].
ALYSSA: Yeah, just grunty.
CHARLI: Yeah. So – but they still needed someone to drive the plot forward, of course. So, he ended up with lots of the lines that were – weren't originally his. And he had to improvise a lot there.
JESS: What can happen sometimes, too, when there's just a line like that, at least, in comedy shows, is, like, they've obviously written a joke there. And then maybe he has an idea of something else – something else he could say. There might have been, like, three or four other options of something that he said there. And that was the one they went with.
ALYSSA: Maybe one day we'll get to ask Joey Batey what lines and scenes he improvised on the show. I think Geralt realizes why she has the amphora later in the scene. He says somewhere, I think, that she's trying to become a vessel for the djinn.
JESS: To become more powerful. Yes.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: Yeah. At no point does he realize that this is about her fertility in this episode.
ALYSSA: The parallels between the amphora and the uterus, like, being drawn on her abdomen do speak back to one – like, that quest to cure her infertility and then also just, like, the desire to be the capsule or the house for this djinn. So, I would say it serves a dual purpose.
JESS: To literally have everything.
ALYSSA: Yeah, after Yennefer threatens Jaskier into making his last wish, we switch back to the prison in which Geralt is beaten by a guard who he wishes to burst and the guard then bursts.
JESS: Wish number two. I did like the effect of the head bursting. I sort of, like, get through frame by frame. I think the blood and guts that end up on Chireadan’s face are real, but the explosion of his head is VFX. So, what they probably did is the guy pretend, like, his head was gonna burst. And then someone shouted burst and then somebody threw that stuff on the actor that plays Chireadan. And then, later, the head gets VFX as if it explodes. So, I'm kind of glad they didn't blow him up completely. Like, the whole body, because that would have been really gross.
ALYSSA: Oh, yeah. I mean it was already pretty gross as is.
JESS: It looks pretty good. it looks good.
ALYSSA: But, yeah, at this point, Geralt and Chireadan are starting to realize that Geralt is now the one with the wishes as opposed to the Jaskier contrary to what Yennefer thinks.
JESS: It was also I think the first time that he points out to Geralt. He does it again later. That he understands why you would like Yennefer. Like, that comes up again later. We also have the visual of the cuts on his arm, which I think was really smart to do for visual medium.
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: Especially since the first one with the twist itself was kind of covered, because he's picking up the amphora pieces. But then we see, like, it's actually the wish counting.
ALYSSA: Which is a pretty brutal way to be not even punished, but just to, like, have that, like, blood sacrifice as part of a wish.
JESS: Yeah, djinns are not pleasant. Not many things are pleasant in the Witcher though monster wise.
CHARLI: I think it's great that they kept – I was saying to Chireadan – Chireadan.
ALYSSA: Whatever you want to say.
CHARLI: Okay. I'm just gonna say Chireadan. I don't know.
JESS: The only elf in the story, we could probably just say the elf.
CHARLI: The elf. That they kept the elf’s line about the spider and the lovely tail.
ALYSSA: It's almost as we thought. Like, a scorpion was prettier than a spider because it has such a lovely tail, something like that.
CHARLI: Yeah, I think it's cool that they kept that in. I cracked up in his delivery. I think the actor for Chireadan is hilarious. I don't know why.
JESS: He’s very sincere.
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: And he plays it all very sincerely.
CHARLI: His face is so pure and he's just—
JESS: Yeah.
CHARLI: He comes across as really pure.
ALYSSA: Yeah. It's surprising because of, like, how meek his character appears and how strong Yennefer also comes across in this section. You must wonder what kind of happened when they actually met and how that dynamic played out, because you never actually see it on screen. You just hear that Chireadan had met her.
JESS: The way he's played, he strikes me as someone who is very competent and confident in what he knows and very clear headed. So, I think, coming across this woman who is also very clear of what she wants – and is very beautiful. She's, like, very sexy and everything. And I think, all that combined, you can kind of see why he fancies her. The way he plays it also. You can see that he took a fancy to her with the knowledge that nothing would ever come from it, you know. That he's very aware that he was not her type. He really liked her anyway.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
CHARLI: Whereas, in a book, he is way more hopeful a bit. Like, it seems to me, in the book reading it, he's so in love with her and under her spell. And he does things for her. He doesn't help Geralts, you know, because he's afraid that he will do something to Yennefer.
JESS: Well, the men, in the book, kind of tend to do pretty stupid stuff regarding Yennefer. Like, that's a pretty common theme in the book. It’s men being kind of dumb about her.
ALYSSA: Unfortunately. And I mean she has that effect on everyone, but, as we said, like, she uses that completely to her advantage. This is a topic that we'll even see throughout the rest of the series as well. The next few scenes cover Yennefer's attempts to capture the djinn. We see Yennefer attempting to summon it with the amphora. She's in a lot of pain. We then see Jaskier leaving the house, who then runs into Geralt and Chireadan on his way out, because Yennefer had let him go. Geralt then runs inside the house, attempts to save Yennefer, who's trying to make herself the vessel for the djinn. Yennefer then possessed by the djinn begs for Geralt to make his last wish and he does. And the djinn escapes.
CHARLI: I was wondering, “Would Yennefer have let Geralt rot in a cell?” I mean I'm sure she thinks that he would find a way out anyway. But, if Jaskier in that moment, hadn't mentioned, like I mentioned earlier, the sexy witch, Geralt wouldn't have asked about him. Would he just have left and not given her a second thought in the series In this scenario?
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: But Jaskier saw Yennefer when they first walked into the orgy. So, like, they know that they all know each other.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: But he's describing her as if he doesn't know that Geralt knows who that is. There was a very sexy witch with dark hair and blah, blah. And it's like, “No, you both walked into that orgy and saw her sitting there. So, you both know who it is.” She wouldn’t have just left Geralt in prison. Jaskier would have gotten out and left not known where Geralt was, but somehow he was there. Also, Jaskier says to him, “This is the time you're finally going to care about someone other than yourself.” I was trying to think if that's actually true, because Jaskier wasn't there with the striga. Maybe he doesn't know about that. I feel like it’s not the first time Geralt has cared about someone other than himself, is it?
CHARLI: He did care about the elves kinda.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean maybe it's just from Jaskier’s perspective, because the scenes that we got with Geralt and Jaskier were – as you said, Charli, the adaptation of the Edge of the World in Episode 2. We got the Feast of Cintra in Episode 4 and then now this. So --
JESS: So, that was what I was trying to think. Like, maybe he hasn't been there when – because he wasn't there for the striga. That's a bit of a self-sacrifice going in and saving that girl instead of killing her. So, yeah, maybe he hasn't been there, but I love the performance of her getting possessed. I thought that worked really well. The sound effects worked really, really well. I mean, like, the, umm, creaking noises when she was, like, bending backwards and, like, the djinn effects worked. All that I think sold it really well. Yeah, the only thing I didn't like was, when he first comes in the room and just the look on his face when he goes, “I'm here to help you.”
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: He looks like a sad puppy or something. I've never seen him look like that at any point on the show before or after. It was kind of a strange performance in that moment. I do think it's funny though that – they're having this argument, right? Like, Yennefer's like, “I'll give you a last wish. Stop trying to become possessed and blah, blah, blah.” They’re going back and forth. And he says, “Just tell me what you want.” And it was like all she had to do was say what her wish was. It just would have been over. She could have got what she wanted. He would have got what he wanted in that moment, which was for her to, like, stop. I thought that was kind of interesting. And she just says everything and then throws them against the wall.
CHARLI: I thought, again, the music was really interesting because, as Geralt makes his wish and also the moments building up to that, we again hear Yen's oboe playing in the background. And it's a really climactic version of her theme on top of some of Geralt’s theme. We hear it in the background slightly tuned down. And it's just – they're coming together in this moment with the wish and everything. And it's just beautiful that they use the music that way. That just works really well.
JESS: It’s always a good sign when the score has a lot of meaning behind it.
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: And it's not overpowering in the sense that, like, if you ask me right now what the score sounded like when I watched it, I couldn't tell you because it's playing at the right level. It's there in your head sort of subconsciously. And they're doing these little things to, like, foreshadow things or --
CHARLI: Mhmm.
JESS: —tell you things through the music. But it's not, like, taking over the scene. It's, like, a nice support to what you're watching. I think they did a really good job of that.
CHARLI: Yeah, I also – I laughed so hard at, “Are you perhaps short of a marble?” line from Jaskier. I thought that's another kind of modern expression, isn't it? But it's so – it’s just funny.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
CHARLI: He's hilarious.
ALYSSA: I think it says a lot about their relationship kind of the exact aspiration that Jaskier has just for Geralt's actions. Conversely, like, how annoyed—
JESS: Just weird, because I would be way more annoyed with Jaskier if I was Geralt, you know.
ALYSSA: Yeah that's what I was gonna say. Like – so, I think it does say a lot about the relationship and how they prioritize and value different things and how they act upon those. So, we were talking about the end of the djinn fight. And, Charli, you had a note in here about how the musical themes incorporate with each other and mix throughout this battle scene.
CHARLI: Yeah, because Yen's oboe theme. Oboe. Oboe. Oboe. Oboe, right? It's oboe. Okay. So, Yen’s oboe theme, like, her instrument is playing as Geralt makes his wish. And I think that's pretty cool. Underlying, we have Geralt’s hurdy-gurdy as well, which is driving the whole thing as these two come together on screen and with the wish and their link together, we hear the themes as well. And that's, of course, good.
ALYSSA: And we kind of get to see the culmination of this intertwining of, like, destinies and of character development, you know, through the end of Geralt’s and Yennefer's story. We’re brought to the exterior of the Beau Berrant’s home and Chireadan and Jaskier mourn Geralt and Yennefer, who they assumed to be dead. At this point, Yennefer and Geralt fall through the floor after the djinn was released after he makes his last wish. And, after a moment of anger, they quickly and desperately make love to a jig, of all things. Chireadan and Jaskier see them through the window. Chireadan pulls Jaskier away. And the close of their segment is just Yennefer and Geralt chatting briefly after this very quick moment of passion. Geralt falls asleep before telling Yennefer what he had wished for.
CHARLI: Yeah, I'm very, very curious where they're going with this, her not hearing the wish. Obviously, as we've brushed on this, the relationship is different to what it is in the books. They don't arrive at this point in the show. And the lovemaking scene, at the end, is not as tender as it was in the books, because she is not touched by his gesture of, you know, saving her. I think that's a very important element that's just different on the show, but we'll see how it will turn out.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JESS: I think that was, like, one of the things I noticed about the show overall. It’s the relationships develop at a different pace—
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: —than they do in the books. Like, the show gets to the end of the last short story plot wise. I think the character relationships aren't caught up to where those relationships are at the end, especially since, over the course of the whole novel series, they don't spend that much time together. It would be interesting how it develops over time. Yeah, this scene is an example of two people who have been very attracted to each other for the whole episode who finally, in the joy of not being dead—
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: —but being very annoyed about what's just happened, have sex in what was previously, I believe, the orgy room. It felt very appropriate maybe.
CHARLI: Yeah, it was.
JESS: I thought it was interesting how, when the djinn was defeated, there was, like, this moment of nothing. And, all of a sudden, the roof collapsed. And then we cut to the outside of the house and you see the djinn sort of leaving through the roof. Inside that room, like, you didn't see the djinn at all. You didn't see it struggling to get out of the roof. It literally just went calm and then the roof cracked. And then we just cut outside for all the, like, the effect shots of the djinn. But it would have been interesting if they gave it this moment where like, “Oh, the spell is over. The fight is over.” And the amphora thing blows up off her stomach and blows away. So, they gave it this, like, beat and then the disaster of the house coming down.
CHARLI: I think that was saving on the budget.
JESS: Actually, if you look at how much time it is between when they realize that the house is collapsing and we cut to them riving in that room, that's, like, the longest portal for the shortest distance ever.
CHARLI: I know. And, also, the way they felt through it.
JESS: It’s, like, 30 seconds for them to travel, like, three floors.
CHARLI: But I mean Geralt points this out. He's, like, “If you were to pull us out of here, you might as well have just, you know, taken us to safety instead of the same house. We’re still in it.”
JESS: I think he made a very good point.
ALYSSA: Yeah, it's kind of interesting that, as a release of emotion, who knows what kind of emotion, they just make love. Just very urgent and desperate love. And then it's over quite quickly.
CHARLI: Yeah.
JESS: With a great musical score here. This is one of the pieces of music that I did notice. And I thought it was fantastic. The tone of it worked. I thought the fact that it was literally like an audio representation of the sex they were having. Like, it sped up toward the end until it ended. And it fit with the tone of the show. It's, like, it's kind of funny. It's kind of ridiculous. You know, they almost died. This is a very serious thing that just happened. But then we immediately switch to something that's sort of funny and I think that fits sort of The Witcher in general.
CHARLI: Yeah, what you noted about it, not taking itself too seriously. And that's definitely reflected in the music. And then he finally gets his, his much needed sleep.
JESS: Which added actually another – there's a lot of discussion about what his wish is. There's no build up to what it could be the way there is in the books where there's a little bit of an explanation by the priest or somebody. There's not a lot of indication what the wish could be, except through the music, which you pointed out. That could give you like a little clue. Some people were like, “Oh, he wished to sleep.” Well, no, that couldn't have been the wish, because, if that was the wish, the djinn would have still killed her. I just think it's interesting. The story is how many years old and people still, like, have debates about what he actually said. And I think, actually, you only really know the answer to what his wish was at the end of the entire series. So --
CHARLI: Yeah.
ALYSSA: I think the difference between the Netflix series here, at this point, is that we do find out in the following episode, Episode 106, what that wish is.
JESS: We'll just say this. I don't totally trust Porsha’s predictions. Something about them were a little bit off.
ALYSSA: I think, to kind of talk about what worked well in the context of the rest of the series and this specific episode, obviously, it introduces Geralt and Yennefer to each other and Jaskier all together so that we establish kind of a relationship between them. And it does serve as a continuation for each of their individual character arcs in which Geralt to seeking some sort of reprieve. Yennefer's still seeking a child. And it drives them toward the next episode as well. Before we get to Ciri’s storyline and comparisons to the books, we’re going to end today’s discussion here. Join Charli, Jess, and I in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair for our continued discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 105, “Bottled Appetites”.
Outro & Credits
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.
Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with the Breakfast in Beauclair theme by MojoFilter Media and the “Tidings from Toussaint” theme by Bettina Campomanes.
Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Julie, Sylvia of Skellige, Jamison, Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Jacob Meeks, Sebastian von Novigrad, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, AerialKitty, TheOneTrueChef, Dustin, and Chris K. of Kovir.
Special thanks to Charli and Jess S. for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil