Ep. 62 — 206 "Dear Friend" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 1)
Charli from Austria and Kim from Germany join Alyssa for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 206 “Dear Friend”. Very important bits include: the fantasy books we’d like to see adapted, the religion and Temple of Melitele, Geralt’s (maybe unhelpful) words of affirmation, Rience’s cross-Continent zoomies, and this Roach’s probable age. Plus, help us name the Kaer Morhen wifi!
This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.
In this Episode
[0:00] Cold Open
[0:53] Introduction
[3:33] Discussion
[50:37] Outro & Credits
Transcript
Cold Open
ALYSSA: Plus, help us name the Kaer Morhen wifi! Plus, name–plus, name us help the–[trills lips']. Plus, name us help–why am I saying that wrong? Plus, name us… help–oh my god. Why can’t I say this line?
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
Introduction
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.
[Boston Trip, Austria 2023]
[Patron Announcements]
As always, thanks to our patrons for supporting the show and our producer-level patrons: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Jeanette of Brokilon, Miriam of Temeria, and Softie.
If you’d like to learn more about becoming a patron of the show, head over to patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.
[Episode Details]
As for this episode, Kim from Germany and Charli from Austria call in for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 206 “Dear Friend”. Join us as we discover the religion and Temple of Melitele, discuss the fantasy books we’d like to see adapted, Geralt’s (maybe unhelpful) words of affirmation, Rience’s cross-Continent zoomies, and this Roach’s probable age. Plus, help us name the Kaer Morhen wifi!
No break today as Lars is on vacation and there are no call-ins, but be sure to send in your thoughts on Ep. 206 to appear on the next few “Dear Friend” segments.
Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 206 “Dear Friend” (Part 1).
Discussion
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa, and today we’re welcoming two members of our Hanza to the show. Our first guest comes from Hamburg, Germany, and is pursuing acting school while working as a management assistant. She’s passionate about fantasy books, story-driven video games, and, of course, The Witcher. Please welcome Kim from Germany. Hi, Kim.
KIM: Hi Alyssa, thank you for having me.
ALYSSA: And you will also recognize our second guest from episodes 23 and 24 Breakfast in Beauclair, covering bottled appetites in The Witcher Season One and as Yrel and Shandris in the Euros D&D game. She's based in Vienna and works in online marketing, while teaching herself how to code. She's joined HEMA, the Historical European Martial Arts organization, with a focus on longsword fencing. Please welcome Charli from Austria. Hi, Charli.
CHARLI: Hello, thank you so much for having me back on the pod. A pleasure to be back.
ALYSSA: So before we get to the episode, obviously, we'll get to know both our guests a little more. Kim, you started talking about, like, your passion for acting. And I'd love to hear more about what kind of stories you're drawn to, what kind of acting you're drawn to, and how you got started.
KIM: So as you said, I'm doing acting on the side and that actually has been quite a long dream of me and in the depth of the winter 2020 COVID depression, I decided to take the leap, go down with my hours in my office job and just go ahead and apply to an acting school and since then, it's brought me so much joy and I started doing freelance work this month. I had my first two jobs on this, and yeah, I really do hope that someday I'll make a living of it. But yeah, so far it's a nice hobby that I sometimes get paid to do. When it comes to those classical theater plays, like Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet, those are nice, but those are not what I want to do, actually. My acting coach says that every good film actor needs to be a theater actor first. Basically, the basis of the education, but my goal is definitely to go into film acting. My absolute dream, like I can die happily afterwards, is if I ever get to play a character in a fantasy book adaption for either a series or film, yeah, that would send me through the roof. I spent all my teenage years with my nose in a fantasy book. Obviously, that's always been a great passion of mine. And lately, so many of those fantasy books are being adapted and being made accessible to a wider group of people. And that's how I got into The Witcher fandom as well. I haven't heard about the books and the games before the Netflix series. So that's what got me into it. And yeah, and being able to do that for other people, would be absolutely amazing.
ALYSSA: Are there any fantasy series that you're like really hoping for adaptations for?
KIM: Yeah, definitely. So the first one that comes to mind is definitely The Court of Thorns and Roses series by Sarah J. Maas. Whoever’s been on booktalk or Instagram. Bookstagram? Not sure what's that called. But they would definitely have heard about that series. Yes.
ALYSSA: I feel like the one fantasy book that I would really love to see. It's one that I picked up when I was like eight years old, and it's called The Two Princesses of Bamarre. It's by Gail Carson Levine who also did Ella Enchanted, but it just feels very different. I enjoy that one. Charli, what about you? Is there anything that you're hoping will eventually get adapted?
CHARLI: Honestly, I'm blanking. I have no clue. There are lots of things I like to read. And I read a lot of fantasy as well. But I've never really thought about, oh, I'd like to see this on the screen or anything. I don't know if it happens, it happens. And that's cool, I guess, so.
ALYSSA: Yeah. Have you read anything lately that you'd recommend to the Hanza?
CHARLI: Nothing fantasy really in a while. I'm currently reading a book, it's called You're not Listening. I forget who the author is. But it's about how in this day and age and with our technology and everything, we've forgotten how to listen to each other and really pay attention, not just listen, to be friendly, but really pay attention to what the other person is saying. And you're always staring at your screen while talking to people and stuff. So that's been quite insightful.
ALYSSA: Yeah. As we stare at our screens and talk to each other.
CHARLI: Exactly. Yeah.
ALYSSA: Charli, you had mentioned that you joined HEMA a few years ago. Can you tell us what that is? And your involvement in it? I think you had, like, a very big event or milestone recently.
CHARLI: Yes. So HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts. And there are lots of fighting techniques that fall under that category. But mine specifically is long sword fighting. I've always been a huge history, fantasy, historical drama geek and always been fascinated with castles and all that stuff, and medieval history. So I've always wanted to have a sword and know how to use it. I looked into it on and off as a student, but it was just too expensive, because the equipment is so expensive, and the courses themselves are so expensive. So I laid that aside, but just over two years ago, I happened, online, to find this club in Vienna that does historical, longsword fencing based on the German school of longsword fencing from around 1500. They had a beginner's course starting in just two weeks, and I signed up immediately. I was like, yeah, that's it. This is destiny. I was meant to read about this right now. So I signed up, and yeah, I've been at it since then, February 2020, just before the pandemic hit, and we had to go into lockdown and couldn't do shit.
ALYSSA: Right.
CHARLI: Yeah, it's been fun. I mean, I'm not an expert by any means. But it's just something that I've always wanted to do. And it's just so cool. It's so much fun and mentally and physically challenging and I just love it and I hope I become better and better with time.
ALYSSA: Oh, that's so flippin’ cool. Kim, is stage combat or stunt work in your feature as an actor?
KIM: I would love it to be, but we do capoeira, which is a Brazilian form of hand-to-hand combat, that looks very nice. So it's kind of dancy vibe to it. That's really cool. Actually, we do a lot of sequences, that's loads of fun. I get so sore every single week, you would think that you know, some training would kick in. But now every single week, it's the same. It's so cool, and it's so much fun. And I think that if I do ever get a, land a part that requires onstage fighting, I will be prepared a little bit. And then obviously, with stunt coordinators, I will not be completely new to it all.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, well, I'm thrilled to have you both here, especially as we're talking about Episode 206, just because we get a lovely fight sequence. And a very gratuitous one, I think in the middle of it as well. So today we'll continue our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher season two with episode 206 Dear Friend, in which tensions rise between the Elves and Nilfgaard, Istredd searches for answers, and Geralt and Ciri reunite with Yennefer, only to be separated yet again. After the events of episode 205, in which Vesemir wanted to take serious blood to make new wishers. Geralt came back home and was like dude, what the fuck. So we find out that everybody left, and Geralt is unhappy with what was happening in Kaer Morhen and he's decided to bring Ciri elsewhere. Ciri is upset because she feels she's not able to pursue what she thinks is going to help her either reclaim Cintra or seek out revenge against Nilfgaard and the Black Knight. Something that Geralt says to her, “you want to kill yourself trying to become a mutant. So if you survive, you can kill yourself trying to get revenge. What part did I miss?” So what did you guys think about this opening scene and the subsequent battle?
KIM: It showcased really nicely that the relationship between those two is progressing into like this teenager/parent, or teenager/guardian type relationship. Ciri can't really see why Geralt is doing what he is doing. And I thought that her line, “All you care about is your damn duty. As long as I'm breathing, you've done your job” is very much the essence of this behavior and Geralt is actually trying to protect her and that being a Witcher is not only what training had Kaer Morhen is or was like. Also this dialogue that they have, it introduces this topic of revenge and that circle of hatred and revenge, that doesn't help any involved, it just eats you up from the inside or you end up dead. It sets the mood very nicely for this episode.
CHARLI: Agreed. And that also, it just sums up very nicely what we've seen the entire season so far is that he's reluctant to train her at first, which is very true to the books as well. Not for the wrong reasons, you know. We don't kill out of hatred, we kill to save lives. And she's just so hell-bent on this revenge. He knows that's dangerous. As you say, Kim, who wants to protect her and that's only natural.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I think especially with Ciri’s experiences and her scope of view, wanting to be a witcher feels a little short-sighted. It's understandable for her to kind of harbor these feelings of I think both contempt for the greater war and everything that's happening, but it also seems like she has a lot of self-contempt, especially around everyone that she's seen dying and we're gonna see this come up throughout this episode as well. So when Ciri and Geralt approach this river, Geralt already senses that there might be something out there and he's like, I'm going to draw the thing out, and Ciri’s like what are you talking about? And so he wades into the river and this beast comes overhead and this is the creature that we saw at the end of episode 205, the Chernobog. It comes down and it goes to attack Geralt and Ciri and ultimately gets Roach, Geralt's beloved horse, or one of his beloved horses. It flies away for the moment, but we do get a scene between Geralt, Ciri, and Roach in which Geralt says goodbye to his dying companion. An interesting tidbit about this scene is that what Geralt says here was conceived by Henry Cavill. The line that he says is, “Enjoy your last walk across the meadow and through the mist. Be not afraid of her, for she was your friend.” And if you've read the books or if you listen to the podcast, this will be familiar to you from Something More in Sword of Destiny. When Geralt goes to the obelisk, a memorial at Sodden, and has a vision or dream in which he meets Death. As opposed to, what we heard was, the original line from Lauren Hissrich, “You were my favorite Roach”, which is both a nod to the rest of the books, as well as the games. if you're familiar.
CHARLI: I prefer the line that Henry Cavill came up with within the context of the show. Because Roach and the Horse, like they hyped Roach up very well and she's a fan favorite. The horse was so loved.
ALYSSA: Yeah, she has her own Netflix avatar.
CHARLI: Right, right. I know the showrunner Lauren Hissrich, people were like, oh, you put a joke in there at first. And I didn't perceive it as a joke, it was more of like a straight-up strike for fans of the books or the games even. But I think that just in terms of letting things breathe a little bit and adding some continual character development over the course of several seasons, you know, and not have him give away by saying “you were my favorite Roach” that he basically calls all of his horses Roach, is just better because they can still play with it in the future, you know, have somebody, Jaskier maybe, call him out on it, like he does in the books. For new viewers, it'll just be this experience of oh, he does that, that's interesting, I wonder why he does that. And it's this new layer of Geralt that people could see if they decide to do that, or just have him name it on screen. And people be like, oh, that's interesting. Cool. So I just feel like you don't have to shoot all your shots at once, just for the sake of putting this easter egg in there, a bit clumsily, even maybe. So I think for the show, it was better this way. I do not think, however, that Geralt from the books would have done that. Because he's not attached to the horses themselves. He's attached to the name and the continuity that the name gives him in his wild and unpredictable life on the path. But still, it was a nice scene. I wasn't like crying or anything. But it was definitely an aww moment.
KIM: Geralt who might not be really attached to the horse, but she's still a valuable companion. She basically is a tool to his survival, that is essential to his survival. And she deserves a peaceful, or as peaceful as it gets, death, with someone stroking her neck and whispering nice words. So I thought that this also shows, like, these two sides to Geralt, he wants to be that grumpy, badass witcher, but on the inside, he is a little softy. And, I don't know, if you spend so much time on the path, alone with your thoughts and just that horse with you, you're bound to get touched at least a little. Yeah, so I was sad to see that Roach go. But another one will be back surely.
ALYSSA: With Geralt and Roach, like he knows how to care for this creature. He knows that he feels compassion toward it. It doesn't argue with him the way that a teenager is. So it's kind of nice to have that contrast just in the one scene as well. Because he feels more closed off as a guardian when it comes to Ciri.
CHARLI: But it was time for Roach to die, let's be real. This Horse is old in the show. Like how old was Roach when she died at this point? I mean, she must have been at least 60. Because in the first episode of Season One, he was having this conversation after they left Kaer Morhen and there was this girl in the cart and she screamed and blah, blah. So he's already had her for a while. Then Renfri mentioned that Queen Calanthe had just won her first battle, let's say for the sake of it, Calanthe was 15 at the time. Then let's give it another 20 years, 30, until Ciri is born. So at this point, Roach is 50 years old, at least. And then Ciri is, I don't know how old she's supposed to be in the show.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
CHARLI: Let's say she's 15 for the sake of it. So the horse is 65 years old. So I mean, that's a fucking stretch. Even if it's a magical horse or something like she had to die. It was inevitable.
ALYSSA: If not this, then something else. They would have taken her to a farm upstate. CHARLI: Yeah.
ALYSSA: But yeah, it's very silly. And I agree with both of you, it'll be nice from here on out if they make it closer to the running gag that it was in the books. After Roach dies, Geralt and Ciri actually attempt to take on the Chernobog. Geralt has Ciri stand up on a very small cliff. When it comes around and tries to attack Ciri, Geralt comes out from the corner and slices it through the body and it crashes.
CHARLI: That jump was hella weird. Sorry, but it needs to be said. That was not a good shot of that stunt because look how he’s being swung on the rope towards something. And it was just a little unfortunate because it didn't look that cool, but okay.
KIM: I just put down some question marks like how would he have done it? Where did he come from? We've jumped up from the ground or gotten to higher ground before?
ALYSSA: Yeah, I think part of that is probably because we're with Ciri for most of it. So maybe from her perspective, on top of the rock, she's seen Geralt like shoop, where he's kind of coming up from the side. Probably could have been shot in a better way, but yeah.
CHARLI: But I think it's good that, you know, he's like you go up on the rock and you hold your ground and you can see in Ciri’s face that she's very determined to help out, you know, very determined to do this. And it also goes nicely with the ending of their conversation before they heard the Chernobog, where he was about to say, Ciri, I do understand and then he cut off. And he does understand because he lets her participate, of course, because you know, he can use her as bait because the thing wants her. But also, I think there's an element of him, and knowing that it's important to her, you know, he does, in fact, understand what she's saying. And I thought that was quite beautiful.
KIM: It was nice. I'm not sure if nice is the right word but, like, letting Ciri participate, but also showing her how it actually is to go toe-to-toe with one of those monsters. And she's looking very determined, and she's getting through it, and she's glad to be part of it. And then the fight is over. And the first and only thing that Geralt says is, “where the fuck are my swords?” What was that line? What was the purpose of that? Why is he not checking in with Ciri? Where did he lose his swords? Is that being mentioned before? Did they get lost when the Chernobog attacked Roach? Not sure if I was really happy with that choice of line. Also, the design of the Chernobog, I'm not really excited about. I mean, sure, it's supposed to be a new type of monster, like one that came out of the Monolith, and something new, never seen before. But I felt like it didn't really fit in with the art style of the continent if you will. It felt very futuristic, like something out of the matrix maybe?
ALYSSA: Yeah, there's certainly something about the Chernobog that reminds me of like, a Transformer or a Bionicle or a Digimon. Like, something like that.
KIM: Yeah.
ALYSSA: And the way that it comes up in Episode 205, is that they yeah, basically, like Bionicle together all of these shards of the monolith and then turn into a Chernobog. And in the previous episode, when Geralt and Istredd had one brain cell at the bottom of the gorge, they came to the hypothesis that these are probably from other worlds, maybe there is a world that this creature fits into, but it's certainly not the continent. I wonder if it's a choice on production to make it look as different as humanly possible.
CHARLI: I was rewatching the episode just last night, and I actually paused and turned to my boyfriend and I went, this thing looks like something out of Guardians of the Galaxy.
ALYSSA: Yeah, that's accurate.
CHARLI: And then I realized because I paused and it was the screenshot, and it was this really smiley face of the Chernobog. And then there was the episode title of Dear Friend and the top left corner from the Netflix window, and it was perfect, it was just perfect.
ALYSSA: It has a bit of, like, a Toothless from How To Train Your Dragon vibe, which I think is part of the thing that makes it feel a little out of place. I'd be curious to see based on what we heard from Istredd in on the previous episode, where he was talking about, like, “the Spheres, they're still out there, and everything's been evolving on its own, in the Spheres. And then they're gonna come here through the monoliths!” That's my impression of Istredd, it's really good, I know. So I wonder if like through some of the later seasons, if they pursue this monolith storyline continually throughout the rest of the series, if we're going to start seeing different monsters and creatures and humanoids from other worlds as well. And like if we're just gonna get a variety of separately evolved species.
CHARLI: This is the Witcher Multiverse.
ALYSSA: Shh. That's the big secret.
KIM: It's all coming together.
CHARLI: Why did they have thr dying Roach scene in the first and then at the end of the fight? Like, huh? The thing just left? And I mean, it doesn't bother me. It's just something that I'm noticing right now. It's just it would have been nice to, kind of, to end the thing with the goodbye to Roach, I guess.
ALYSSA: Yeah, maybe to raise the stakes. Because then you see, like, how much damage this creature did to Roach. And also, they don't have a way to escape, now that Roach is gone. So maybe both of those things.
CHARLI: Maybe? Yeah.
ALYSSA: I mean, that leaves them of course, walking on foot throughout the rest of the continent, which we will get to as well. But in the next scene, Vesemir contends with the shame from his decision to use Ciri for her blood. Triss and Vesemir are attacked by Rience, who quickly disappears. Both Vesemir and Triss have a lot of guilt about what happened in episode 205. More so, now that Geralt and Ciri have left the keep entirely. So they discuss, what we created is super dangerous, no one should have it, and then of course, immediately someone takes it and it's Rience. Rience who has apparently come to Kaer Morhen looking for Ciri and instead attacks Triss and Vesemir, then almost immediately disappears. It was a nice follow-up to what happened in the previous episode with Triss and Vesemir. But obviously, I have a lot of questions about this is meant to be like a secret and secure place in the mountains of Kaedwen that no one's supposed to know. How did Rience get in there?
CHARLI: Maybe he asked for the sex workers from episode two for directions. I don't know, that was him teleporting inside Kaer Morhen and not just inside the keep, but inside the laboratory specifically, as if he had some sort of GPS tracker for Elder Blood, where exactly you could find it. That was just weird because it doesn't make sense either, if you think about it, within the context of how witcher medallions and magic works because they talk about, you know, the vial with the blood, and they talk about where Ciri and Geralt had left to, and Vesemir says that they've probably gone to the temple, to Nenneke’s. Only then does his medallion start to rattle. And…I say Rience.
ALYSSA: Say whatever.
CHARLI: I'm sorry.
ALYSSA: Well, did both of you read the series in German?
CHARLI: German first. Yes.
KIM: Either, both. Yes.
ALYSSA: Say whatever you like, I don't think it matters anymore.
KIM: Okay.
CHARLI: Okay, okay, in my head, it's Rience, or at least Rience, or something? Some variety of that. Anyway, so he shows himself and he's got his little flame on these fingers. And he's—
ALYSSA: These hands, these fingers.
CHARLI: We know which fingers he's talking about. I'm talking about. Yeah. And that's when reveals himself and am I to believe that he's been listening in on this entire conversation? Because surely the moment he teleported into there, Vesemir's medallion would have gone off.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, maybe I feel like it was a story convenience that like ah, Vesemir's done giving us exposition. Here's Rience now.
KIM: Yeah.
CHARLI: It was but it's so lazy.
KIM: Yeah. When I first saw that scene, it didn't really occur to me that this is not really probable, that he would just teleport in there, gets what he came here for. Follow-up question, is that vial of mutagen really the thing he came for? No, he was looking for Ciri. So why would he pick that up? How would he have noticed in barging into a completely new area, surprising Vesemir and Triss, attacking them, how would you notice that one little vial lying on the ground? Like, how's his focus on this? But after watching it again, I definitely thought, like, where did he come from? How does he know where Kaer Morhen is, to go into the laboratory? Maybe he portaled in from a little bit outside or like in the castle grounds maybe and just walked? But that doesn't seem very probable as well, because everything's full of witchers.
ALYSSA: Also, if you think that he was imprisoned in Cintra, and we're now in Kaedwen, he would have had to make at least six teleportation jumps to get all the way across the continent. So we're just gonna have to put the geography aside and just quietly smother it in the corner for the rest of the season.
CHARLI: Cause even after him torturing Jaskier, and Jaskier and his ballads vaguely mentioned the witcher’s keep in the mountains, but I'm sure there are other castles and old ruins and keeps in the mountains across the entire continent, so.
ALYSSA: Right. There's not just one mountain.
CHARLI: Yeah. It's very specific. And like you say, Kim, how did you know how to pick up that specific vial? The only way for him to do that and know that, is if he has been listening in on them, which is not possible because of the magic.
KIM: Yeah, it lacks a little bit of logic.
CHARLI: Yeah, smile and move on.
ALYSSA: We do get a little bit of character in this scene. Chris Fulton as Rience is great in the show, you know, he plays the adaptation of Rience well. Triss was burned at the Battle of Sodden, if you remember at the end of episode 108. But you can see in this moment that as soon as Rience cycles her in a ring of fire, she's almost completely immobilized. I think that it's been incredibly important to see her life after Sodden, throughout the course of season two. And this is, I think, just another little moment that reminds us that she's still experiencing this and still dealing with what happened to them.
CHARLI: I think they did a great job, genuinely, of showing her trauma after what happened at Sodden, and it makes complete sense that she would be no match for Rience’s fire magic in the scene. Like, she does throw a spell at him, which he rebuffs pretty easily and then he just takes her out by, you know, locking her into a circle of fire, basically, and she's completely stunned. So that and, like you say, many little other things. They've done it really well to show how scarred she is mentally from that harrowing experience.
KIM: Yeah, but also what I was thinking is, why is there not a single sword in the laboratory? Why does Vesemir have to defend himself with a broomstick?
ALYSSA: Yeah, I guess they're not really down there doing sword work, could be my guess. And I guess he doesn't, like, have it on him all the time.
KIM: Yeah, maybe but not even a dagger? I'm not sure.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree.
CHARLI: Why is there no other witcher down in this laboratory as soon as Rience shows up? Because all of their medallions would have been going off like crazy. I don't know,
ALYSSA: Maybe there's like no WiFi outside of the laboratory or it just doesn't connect to the server.
CHARLI: One more word. The witchers at Kaer Morhen would name their WiFi.
ALYSSA: Ooh.
CHARLI: Because they don't have any neighbors to laugh about it so it could be anything.
ALYSSA: That's true. If you listeners at home have a suggestion for what the Witchers would name their WiFi, we should have a little chit-chat about it on Twitter and Instagram after the episode releases. After the scene, we’re swept from Kaedwen all the way back to Cintra. In the next scene, Francesca and Fringilla take a walk around the gardens of Cintra before Cahir interrupts. Francesca at this point is very heavily pregnant. She's walking around with Fringilla and they are enjoying each other's company. I know I've talked about this continually on different episodes, but I really do enjoy their friendship and seeing the formation of the Nilfgaard and Elven Alliance and their relationship definitely humanizes it, which I think is fantastic. So as they're walking around, Francesca is making all the wilting roses bloom again, which is a cool little bit of magic for her. And she reveals that she's been doing this since she was a child, but that when her father found out, he tried to lead a crusade against her. Ultimately, that caused Gage and Francesca to rebel against their father and kill him. The way that she puts it, quite frankly, is like yeah, Gage held him down as I slit his throat, and it’s just slid in there in such a beautiful scene. And it's a little jarring to hear.
KIM: Yeah, definitely. She talks so nonchalantly about killing her father. And–
ALYSSA: Yeah.
KIM: –I thought like with roses, it shows Fringilla also that magic can be something just nice. And just something for enjoyment, used for enjoyment. It doesn't always have to be about power and about sacrifice and something to use to get an advantage over someone or some situation. I just love how this series continues to show so many different sides to all the characters—from power-hungry, to really sensitive, to passionate, to grim and brutal. And I love that very much. I also love that these two women stand in the center of this season, basically. And what's important about them is not only their friendship and their soft sides but their cunning and the powers that they have and that they use to unite their people. The whole interaction is just very nicely done.
ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. Francesca's acknowledgment that there is beauty in magic, is a really nice thing to point out. Because immediately after Fringilla adds her own story, you know in Aretuza, we were taught to be cunning, we were taught to manipulate, like political power. So it's nice, as you said, to like, see her relax in this company and for some of her ideals, I think to widen. And we discovered that Fringilla is also a character of compassion, which I think is very important. As we— you know, are probably going to spend a lot of the series still humanizing Nilfgaard. So it's nice to have that in Fringilla's character.
CHARLI: Absolutely. And also, it takes me back right now to the scene in episode three, I believe, where Yennefer finds Cahir in the cell at Aretuza, and she assures him basically that no, no, Fringilla is a political animal. She has been raised and trained to have the emperor in her hands, basically. So that just takes me back. And yeah, like you guys say, just Fringilla is clearly on this new path, and this beautiful side, this giving life side of magic is new to her and is a revelation to her. I agree. It's just really, really nice to see.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I think like, especially given how the Battle of Sodden went. Just watching full-grown sorcerers just turned into ash. Life-giving magic is a nice contrast—for sure.
CHARLI: Life-giving magic is not what they use in Nilfgaard, as we've learned.
ALYSSA: RIP. Mage number four.
CHARLI: They aren't even named in the credits.
ALYSSA: Maybe they are, I don't know.
CHARLI: Probably the one mage who, like, ran down the hill with this cloud of smoke behind him.
ALYSSA: Yo, oh my god, they were so intense.
CHARLI: Real talk.
ALYSSA: Or the one that, like, shanked himself so that they could—
CHARLI: Oh yeah.
ALYSSA: That was a terrible scene. I don't know why I brought it up. So at the end of the scene, Cahir arrives and he's in his brand new shiny Nilfgaardian armor, looking less grubby, I think than when he was previously, in all of the previous episodes when he was on the run. So he's back to being clean shaven, he's got a new helmet with a gorgeous plume. As he’s settled in, it seems like he's observed what's been going on in Cintra, and he confronts Fringilla about the situation that they're now currently in. And he phrases it in such a way that like, I respect what you had to do, but I hope it didn't distract you from what we're really here to do. It's kind of like you've been gone for months, dude. You've got no idea what's going on right now. Yeah, exactly. And he's such, like, a one-track mind kind of dude at the moment. And he's als, like, parroting all of this loudly enough, like, oh, for the Great Sun, we have to find the girl,she was last seen in Sodden. And of course, Dara is there, and he turns around when he overhears this and correctly makes the assumption that they're talking about Ciri. So that's the big revelation that Dara has in the scene.
CHARLI: Yeah, he's not being suspect at all, of course, as he turns his head very, very suspiciously as Cahir says this, so that was kind of funny to me.
KIM: He's very obviously snapping off his own neck just whipping around, like, what did he say?
ALYSSA: No, it's not casual at all.
KIM: No, it is not. It's not very smooth.
CHARLI: I found it interesting that, as soon as Cahir gets off his horse and takes off his helmet, he lets Fringilla come up to him, to speak to her. He wants to speak to her, but he's letting her come to him, which kind of nicely illustrates the point that Francesca was just making about who's really in charge here. You know, the elves see her as the leader, because Fringilla is the one who brought them into Cintra, who's giving them food and clothes and a place to sleep. And now this soldier shows up, and he's threatening to disrupt all of that. And there's tension brewing between these two. And Francesca is very elegantly like wiggling her way into that and like reinforcing that, and like driving the wedge in even deeper, but yeah, it was just interesting to me that Cahir believes himself in charge, and he lets Fringilla come up to him and not the other way around.
ALYSSA: Ah, the power of man. What it must be. After that Geralt and Ciri cross the continent to reach the Temple of Melitele, where sheias assessed by Mother Nenneke. The Temple of Melitele is, I think, something that is very famous from the books. Mother Nenneke, is one of the first characters that we meet in The Last Wish and she's with Geralt over The Voice of Reason. So we really get a chance to get to know this character, we see her continually throughout the books as well, but on their way, Ciri again reveals to Geralt that the Chernobog didn't want to hurt her. She feels that same pull toward the creature that she felt toward the Leshy and the Myriapod. In this conversation between Geralt and Ciri, Ciri confides in Geralt this self-contempt that she feels. She says, “When the knight caught me, all I could feel was fear. I was so scared, but I also felt anger. Later, there were also some men from Cintra, who found me. They were going to take me to the knight as a reward. But I wasn't scared at that time. I just…I knew what would happen.” And Geralt says “You screamed”, and she quietly tells him like, “I killed them.” And Geralt’s like “how many were there?” She goes, “four.” He looks at her and says “only four, you've got some catching up to do.”
CHARLI: Oh, god.
ALYSSA: It's the kind of thing that, like, I'm so curious about Geralt's parenting style. Is it the kind of thing where he's like, I'm a cool dad, I've done more than that, or is it the kind of thing that he's trying to make her feel better that it was an accident, and it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things?
CHARLI: If he's trying to reassure her, and he's like, it wasn't as big a deal, because it was only four people or something, that goes against literally everything that he's been telling us so far, which is in episode two, he was really adamant about this. He was like, and I quote, “This is important. We don't kill out of fear, we kill to save lives, do you understand?” And he said training is dangerous. I don't know why this line was in there at this point. I'm not sure if that was a joke that they didn't really think about– what it implied, if it was meant to be tongue in cheek and he meant to, you know, kind of jokingly give her a nudge and say, oh, if you continue down this path, you know, you're gonna have to do a lot more killing than just four people something. But it didn't really land that well. I don't know. It was a bit weird.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I'm always so curious about the parenting style that Geralt has and one of the things that sticks out to me is from The Witcher 3, actually. I hope I'm not spoiling this for anyone. If you are, just like skip forward a couple of seconds in the recording. One of the decision points that's crucial for one of the endings is that when Ciri is in a certain situation, Geralt has to decide if he's going to cause chaos and ransack this place with her, or if he's going to reprimand her for even thinking about it. And the surprising thing about that decision is if you ransack this place with Ciri, it's a quote-unquote good decision versus if you tell her off for, like, maybe you shouldn't, like, trash all these things, it's seen as a poor one. I'm curious about the parity and parallels between those two things because those feel consistent in and of themselves. Geralt downplaying the violence that Ciri has experienced, and that she has caused, and then also encouraging her in The Witcher 3 to kind of, like, wreak havoc as well. And I'm still trying to figure out how to articulate his parenting style is.
CHARLI: And I think that's his struggle, too, though, you know? I think that he's actually maybe trying to still find that out as well. So maybe we shouldn't read too much into it. And maybe it just makes complete sense for him to be all over the place with his lessons, to Ciri, I don't know,
KIM: I thought this conversation felt more like something that would happen between Geralt and Lambert maybe, like comparing scores. I felt like this was very out of character for everything for book Geralt, for game Geralt, for series Geralt. He's being very harsh on her, and she's basically sharing her trauma with him that she killed these men that it's still something she thinks about. And even though they were going to do harm to her that she still feels very, very guilty about killing them, and she was afraid of the power that lives inside her and what it could do, not only to her enemies but maybe also to people that she cares about. And him coming back like, oh, you've got a lot of catching up to do. I have no idea where that even came from, that line. Yeah, it was a little bit like “What Even Is Parenting? A Guide by Geralt”. Yeah, it doesn't really fit in with the scenes that we've seen before, especially, like, even with the first scene of this episode, where he is not very smooth in his parenting style, surely, but has her best interests at heart and this was just basically adding to her trauma of killing these men.
ALYSSA: A couple of episodes ago, when Ciri was on the pendulum, we had spoken about the fact that when Geralt sees Lambert and Coen and everyone putting her through training, as soon as Ciri falls off, the only thing that Geralt says to her is just “so close”. And she looks so heartbroken and so defeated. At the time I kind of speculated, well, you know, maybe that's because they're still kind of raising her as a community, as a pack. And it's probably better for Ciri that all of her guardians have a united front or have a united perspective. Whereas here, it's kind of like, oh, but they're by themselves. There's no one to have to kind of fall in line with. I would assume consistent parenting is better for a child. I don't know. It's interesting. And I think again, I'm still trying to figure out what their dynamic is like. One of the things that I personally really love about the Temple of Melitele, is that it's inspired by Moorish Architecture and the Alhambra in Granada, Spain. I love Spain, if–I think I've spoken very openly about the fact that I'm taking Spanish classes and I have a family in the south of Spain. So I got to visit a couple of years ago before COVID and it's beautiful. If you ever get the opportunity to visit and to see the Alhambra in Granada, it's just stunning, like the tile work and the details. And everything about this beautiful palace really is incredible. So I'll definitely post pictures of that when this episode comes out. Production is one of my favorite aspects. So hearing about their influences is always really interesting to me.
KIM: Yeah, I thought that temple was so beautifully constructed and the lighting, it was all very soft, very welcoming. You felt very safe and I actually had to laugh when I watched that, that episode for the first time. And Ciri says Melitele, I think which yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
KIM: Like the pronunciation, I remember the first time that this name came up in the podcast you were debating with the guests on that episode how to pronounce it. The way the show picks it up is quite similar to the German way of saying it, I guess which would be Melitele, or that's the way I pronounce it. But yeah, I thought about the podcast in that scene definitely, about that pronunciation.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I'm fairly certain I've said repeatedly throughout the podcast that Melly Telly just sounds like a Teletubby.
CHARLI: It does.
ALYSSA: Probably.
CHARLI: Yeah, it's a big no-no, it's like oh, it hurts the ears a little bit, I think. It’s, like, a bit painful.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I don't know where I got the pronunciation from. I feel like it would have been from like maybe they say, it in The Witcher 3 or something. But for me, it's always been Melitele. So I don't know, just like a big charge through the entire word.
CHARLI: Like the second syllable, right, is Melitele.
ALYSSA: Yeah, in any case.
CHARLI: Pronunciations.
ALYSSA: Yeah. Pronunciation sucks especially–
CHARLI: Let's meet Rience in Melitele.
ALYSSA: Oh my God. My heart just, like, seized. It's been happening since literally the pilot episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. And we're like 50, 60 odd episodes and now so, this is just going to be my burden to bear for the next decade. You know, as we get into the temple, we hear a little bit of exposition from both Geralt and Ciri. Ciri tells basically us, the audience, that Melitele is the goddess of fertility and harvest, and that graduates of the temple school become midwives, historians, and healers and Geralt also adds in “and witchers too!” and reveals that he himself was once a student at the temple when he was a child.
CHARLI: I found that really weird because they say that witchers learn signs, how to do signs at this temple, right? This is not something that's in the books like there's no need for witchers to outsource where they learned signs, it was a bit weird. I guess they needed a short and sweet reason for how they knew each other. But it would have sufficed to just be like, I frequented this temple in the past when I traveled through these lands or something like that because they do say it's a place of safe harbor and refuge for travelers. Right?
ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, we do know that Geralt did grow up in the temple as a child, at least from the books.
CHARLI: We do. Yeah.
ALYSSA: Nenneke or Geralt mentioned that when they first met, he was like, literally up to her hip. It's interesting, because I feel like the Temple of Melitele is never necessarily a magical place, as they said like midwives, historians, and healers. It's not necessarily explicit whether healers is a magical occupation or not and it doesn't necessarily have to be as we learned throughout the series. But I feel like there's probably some sort of spiritual aspect because we learn that witcher signs, they’re some lesser, diminutive form of magic or connection to chaos.
CHARLI: But the place itself is definitely very grand, you know, even if the magic they teach in some shape or form is not. The temple is the architecture that you've spoken about, even down to like the glasses they use to drink tea from. They're very Moroccan in style, which makes total sense with your Spain assessment. It's a beautiful set. I really, really liked it. I love the lighting and the stained glass windows. It was beautiful. It was just very, very different to how I had imagined it while reading the books. I always pictured it as more of this sort of roadside monastery, kind of dark, you know, a little bit, just a place where people would go in and out of traveling. Just darker from the whole ambiance, I guess. But still, I mean, I'm fine with what we got. Oh, the music. I had a bit of a chuckle as I watched this because it reminded me so much of the kind of music they play when you get a massage. Literally, I felt taken back to the last time I got one and was laying down on the massage table. It was so soothing, which makes sense. I mean, it's perfect temple calming music, you know, but it was a bit un-Witchery, like it was very, I don't want to say uninspired. I don't want to like–the music is good, but like your run-of-the-mill temple, zen music.
ALYSSA: Right. Like hot yoga is happening, like 20 minutes in the courtyard.
CHARLI: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
KIM: To be honest, I didn't really pay much attention to the music. It just fits nicely into the background. And that's about all I noticed about this. I did think that the statue of Melitele was so nicely done like this. Like, this um–what's the name of that Indian Goddess– Kali? Yeah, with multiple faces and arms. And that's basically what's greeting you when you come into this temple. It basically says like, oh, welcome, you're safe here.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I find it so interesting that the statue was faceless. I feel like it makes sense. Literally has all of these different roles. But I just thought that was a really interesting choice for the production team, that she doesn't have a face.
KIM: Yeah, I thought maybe the temple was…everything it stands for, healing, midwives, birth, peace, calm, and all that. It's not at all about things like beauty. So I think it makes sense that the statue that represents that goddess isn't subject to any kind of judgment whether you find the face of that statue appealing or not, at least there I'd like to think that they did spend so much time thinking about this is why they made him faceless. But yeah, that could be a nice explanation.
ALYSSA: Yeah. Absolutely, and as we move throughout the temple, we meet Adjoa Andoh as Nenneke.
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we get to the rest of the discussion, we’re going to take a break here. Next episode, join me, Kim from Germany, and Charli from Austria as we continue our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher 206, “Dear Friend.”
Outro & Credits
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.
Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.
Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Jeanette of Brokilon, Miriam of Temeria, and Softie.
Special thanks to Kim and Charli for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.
Transcriptionist: Kristianne Benganio