Ep. 60 — 205 "Turn Your Back" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 2)
James from the US and Robin from the Netherlands join Alyssa for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 205 “Turn Your Back”. Very important bits include: An exploration of femininity and the breadth of women in the Witcher, how the score underlines the themes of the show, deconstructing both the narrative and character reasonings behind the Elder Blood plot line, Digimon-Bionicle-Transformers, tapping into the Continent’s boom box network, and sharing a brain cell at the bottom of a canyon.
This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.
In this Episode
[0:00] Cold Open
[1:15] Introduction
[5:06] Discussion
[32:45] “Tidings from Toussaint”
[35:22] “Dear Friend”, Listener Call-in Segment
[36:58] Discussion
[55:12] Outro & Credits
Relevant Links
News: ‘The Witcher’ Season 3 Halts Production as Henry Cavill Tests Positive for COVID (Collider)
News: 'The Witcher' TV Series Is Filming Fans' Most Anticipated Scene (GAMINGbible)
News: 'The Witcher' Season 3 Resumes Filming After Production Halt (Collider)
News: The Witcher: Blood Origin Report Has Bad News for Netflix Users (ComicBook.com)
Transcript
Cold Open
ALYSSA: I'm just gonna put a note to myself here in the recording to kind of take this discussion about the monoliths, and then move it to the other section as well. Shuffle when I asked James if he's spiritually inclined all the way to where it's supposed to be.
JAMES: Oops, I got too excited. I love monoliths.
ALYSSA: Oh my god, that would make you probably the only one.
ROBIN: I am neutral about the monoliths. To be fair, like they're pushing it in your face a whole lot, but that's–
JAMES: They do say the word monolith.
ALYSSA: I feel like season one was just a supercut of the word destiny.
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: And season two was a supercut of monoliths.
JAMES: Ooh, what's season three gonna be?
ALYSSA: It's probably gonna be like wild hunt wild hunt wild hunt wild hunt. Something like that. Elder Blood, we're gonna hear a lot of Elder Blood.
JAMES: Oh, yeah.
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
Introduction
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.
[Breakfast in Beauclair Anniversary & Boston Trip]
[Patron Announcements]
This episode we welcome Lucie from France & the UK and Veronica to our hanza on Patreon! Thank you to our patrons and our producer-level patrons: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Father of Bean, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Jeanette of Brokilon, Miriam of Temeria, and Softie.
After this episode, patrons will receive the Quiz of Surprise with James and Robin! If you’d like to learn more about becoming a patron of the show—and to hear James’ rendition of “Burn, Butcher, Burn”—head over to patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.
[Episode Details]
As for this episode, James from the US and Robin from the Netherlands wrap our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 205 “Turn Your Back”. Join us as we explore femininity and the breadth of women in the Witcher, discuss how the score underlines the themes of the show, and deconstruct both the narrative and character reasonings behind the Elder Blood plot line. Plus, Digimon-Bionicle-Transformers, tapping into the Continent’s boom box network, and sharing a brain cell at the bottom of a canyon.
In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares production updates for ‘The Witcher’ Season 3 and ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’. After the break, don’t miss our listener call in segment, Dear Friend, which features a very special friend for this episode.
Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 205 “Turn Your Back” (Part 2).
Discussion
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone, welcome back from the break. When we left off, Geralt had sought out Istredd for his expertise in monoliths as Vesemir and Triss decide if they should use Ciri’s Elder Blood to create new witchers. Meanwhile, Yennefer had saved Jaskier from the fire mage Rience, forcing the sorceress and bard back on the run.
In the next scene, when Ciri comes in from training Vesemir tells her the history of the continent and The Witcher's place in it. Vesemir proposes his plan to Ciri and she accepts, on the condition that she be the first Witcher.
JAMES: Ooh.
ALYSSA: Ooh.
JAMES: So, this, this is where Robin and I agree that this plan is ridiculous.
ALYSSA: Yeah. Could you please enlighten the listeners as to why. I think listeners, you guys need to know that Robin and James have had an entire discussion in the notes, I think over the course of about three full pages–
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: –out of a 13 page document.
JAMES: Yeah.
ALYSSA: So, do you guys mind enlightening the group as to what your conclusions are?
JAMES: For you, it's mostly that they wanted to make sure that Ciri had agency–
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
JAMES: –they wanted to have her make the decision herself.
ROBIN: Yeah, she's the main character.
JAMES: For me, it's that Vesemir and Triss are being wildly irresponsible in even entertaining the thought. She is still technically a child, as far as we know, making this decision herself. But where we can agree is that if Ciri's Elder Blood is the key to creating these new elixirs and restarting the Trials of the Grasses, you cannot test it on her first. There are two options here, either it works and her body is going to be full of toxins, who knows if the blood is going to be pure. That's like a village using, like, some chemical agent to kill bacteria in their water source and then their water is poisoned. And then the other option is that she dies, and I even hate that I'm saying these words, but you essentially have a meat sack full of elder blood that is a finite amount.
ROBIN: Yeah.
JAMES: She's dead. She can't make more Elder Blood. I mean, Triss somehow figures out the amount of her blood that would be needed to do this. But you only have a certain amount at that point and then Ciri's obviously dead, she's not going to be able to have children, continue this bloodline. You're going to poison your own supply, man! You can't do that! You're going to run out of blood, it's going to be all toxic, or it's going to be a finite amount. Like I understand her reasoning for wanting to do it, and Vesemir does say no, we're not doing that. It's too dangerous. We're not doing it. But he succumbs to her because it's what she wants, which as Robin has said, is a very, very, very fair approach to the situation.
ROBIN: Like that, what James just said, is like the thing that we both would agree on. But if we look at like, the narrative standpoint, and I think it's very interesting that we then are both looking at it from different perspectives, that you're looking at it from the parent figures, and I'm looking at it from like the young adults main character, I'm not sure if like how much older you are than I am, but maybe that's like our age difference.
JAMES: I'm 27.
ROBIN: Oh, yeah, that's not a lot, like, I'm 23.
JAMES: Yeah, you're not 12 is what we're settling on.
ROBIN: Yeah! If you look at Ciri as a character in universe, it makes sense that she's trying to get big and strong, you know, not be powerless anymore. She's trying to take back control. She's trying to take the power and be like, I need to be stronger to be able to prevent such a traumatic experience as the Slaughter of Cintra ever happening to me again, like I need to take control and become the active actor in this situation. That's like Ciri as a character. From a narrative viewpoint, the writers are trying to give Ciri agency, they're trying to make Ciri the main character who is also doing things and not stuff being happened too. It makes sense that Triss as a character, and narrative is trying to give Ciri her agency back like what we said before, it's also consistent with Triss's character as well.
JAMES: Yeah.
ROBIN: So, it all makes a lot of sense to Vesemir how he is looking at this. It's not like how I feel that he's using her as a tool or–
JAMES: Yeah.
ROBIN: –like at this moment as a living, breathing human being, he's not thinking of her as a sack of blood at all.
JAMES: Yeah, I think that perspective does shift for him. At the start when they're out on the pendulum, he is more thinking of her as just like a blood drip.
ROBIN: Maybe, yeah.
JAMES: Now that she's volunteered for this, he has come to the realization, I think, that this is Geralt’s child, this is not somebody that I can just make do this.
ALYSSA: They are making a connection between Nightmare of the Wolf and Blood Origin. The big takeaway from that connection is that Vesemir is still a man who put children through the Trial of the Grasses as a younger Witcher. And he's still witnessed that and he's still encouraged it and that's still a part of his tradition, right? So, what happens I guess when this man ages when he sees the destruction that befell Kaer Morhen and the sacking when he sees the fact that there are less witchers coming home every single winter, this is still a man who's still capable of violence and a willingness to sacrifice lives in order to get this end result.
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: That's at least the background that I have on the choices for why they made Vesemir the way that they did even though, like, I can't necessarily say that I agree with pursuing the storyline at all.
JAMES: Like I said earlier, this whole episode is groups of two characters working off each other trying to coexist. And I think of the three pairings, this is probably the most successful of them working together, because Triss very much does pull Vesemir back from the "Alright, we got her blood work good, we're doing this" to more of "Please let her choose. We'll see if it works. We'll try it."
ROBIN: The only thing that I still had that was not related to our discussion was Ciri she says, "but my grandmother she hated the elves" on, in the reaction to like that she has Elder Blood. This kind of like makes it obvious and reiterates that Elder Blood is hereditary. They're placing little bits and pieces of info off hand, which I think is really cool and interesting. structure wise.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And we'll get to continue to talk about this as well, as they actually start to set their plans in motion. In the next scene Geralt and Istredd go down to investigate the gorge. This is where we get a lot more of their analysis and we go deeper into the history of the continent and of monoliths and stellacite from Istredd's knowledge. The conclusion that he kind of suddenly comes to here is that what if the monoliths aren't points of impact, but instead they're the conduits of that energy. And Geralt's like "I worry more and more about you mages" and Istredd doubles down he's like, "No, I've seen them communicating!”
ROBIN: With this scene it's trying to establish like, okay, this is not something that just happened. Because in the books, it's very much a thing that seems a natural occurrence, a thing that just happened, who knows why. So like, the abstract aspect of uh, just happened, but here, they're trying to make a tangible, it's not something that just happened, it has happened because some random sorcerers in the past actually made it happen, because he's talking about, like, energy searches and conduits and like the word "conduit", like me, as a non native English speaker, is not a word that I hear very often.
JAMES: Yeah.
ROBIN: So the only context in which I've heard the word "conduit", used a whole lot is actually within the Witcher world talking about, like conduits of chaos and all that. So that immediately made me think of like mages, so I was like, oh, yeah, mages have actively done this, because Istredd is talking in terms of like magic and terms that people in this world use when talking about magic. So that's how I feel like they're using it to say like, oh, yeah, mages have actively done this. They've created the conjunction of the spheres.
JAMES: Yeah, he's very much trying to say that something must have pulled that sphere to this sphere and cause them to bounce off each other, which hopefully we'll see in Blood Origin.
ALYSSA: It makes the monoliths almost sound like little magnets, that just kind of like yanked everything. But as you said, Blood Origin will hopefully have some answers there. In the next scene, Triss and Vesemir extract a vial of Ciri's blood and perform alchemy on it. Triss discovers that Vesemir has promised to turn the girl into a Witcher. This is a follow up to the previous scene, they actually go through with it, Triss is good on her word, and that, you know, Ciri said she wanted to so she'll do it, but she had no idea of Vesemir’s plan to allow Ciri to become that first Witcher. And we've already hashed out why that's a terrible idea. For reasons A and B, but this is all news to Triss, and we can see how unnerved she is in this scene.
ROBIN: I mean, considering like, at first, it may seem that she's an irresponsible guardian, but then at the same time, when she hears this, she's like, "Hold the fuck up. Stop what you're doing."
JAMES: Yeah, this is where she pulls herself back into it. And she's now like, okay, I gotta take charge now. We're not doing this. And of course, that doesn't work out. But at least she's kind of taking the responsibility back that she had passed on earlier.
ALYSSA: After their escape from Rience, Yennefer and Jaskier are chased through the streets. In a betrayal, the sex worker turns Yennefer into the guards in order to collect her bounty.
ROBIN: I'm a bit on the fence about this one, but I feel, and that's something that I like about the way that they're approaching the show, but sometimes I do not necessarily agree with it. But I'm always, like, very afraid that moments when shows or films are trying to actively be feminist and trying to do it right, the fear of being too feminist in your face basically. And I do not necessarily agree with that. But I see, like, online, there's always a lot of conversation and discussion about certain things like that. Yennefer says like, "Okay, I don't have my magic I can't portal is out of here." And Jaskier's, like, "Oh, you don't get to play damsel in distress. It's my job." And I was like, oh, yeah, they're the writers are very consciously putting in that role reversal feminist thingy in here, which makes a lot of sense for the pairing of Yennefer and Jaskier because, Jaskier is a person who is a damsel in distress in many situations, especially in this part of the story. And I was unsure because at first I was like, do I like this or not? But while I was talking about it was like, yeah, I don't want to dislike it either. Because when looking at Marvel and other franchises that it took so long for a female-led movie to happen, and people then taking the shit about it. I was like, well, for the first time in my life, I can go to a movie theater and be like, that can be me! That's me! And that's the thing that little boys and men have never had to, like, really deal with in their life. I'm like, yeah, if I want to be like an action hero, I can be that because all I grew up with was Barbie films and pink, like, and that's fine, because that's, that is me. I'm like "Yay! fairies and princesses that's very much me." But like, I think a lot of girls will benefit from, like, role models who are like, like that. And that goes for, like, a lot of stuff in the world. So that's like opening up a big can of worms in my head right now. So sorry for rambling, but like it's coming out right now. Like, damn, that's a very small theme or a small point in the scene, but like it's in my head.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, and that really is the beauty of an ensemble show is that we get to explore characters like Yennefer, Fringilla, Francesca, Calanthe, Ciri, Triss. And we get a huge gradation of womanhood and I'm sure we'll see that expand over the course of the series as we meet other characters who are secondary and tertiary characters, but still, obviously continue that conversation. I feel like there is a foundational thesis for a lot of the show that positions a lot of the main women as hardened.
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: We see that in Calanthe, we see that in Ciri, who's kind of working her way up to that. Yennefer is both emotionally hardened, and she has things like this. Nenneke in her own way, as we'll see in Episode 206. It's a very specific characterization of all women and I don't know if that's the writers or if that's more truth, or if that's a sign of the times within the continent, but that all of them are, like a little bit crude and a little bit brash.
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Regardless of circumstance, or us, or state.
JAMES: Right, right, right.
ROBIN: Yeah. Because I feel like if I look at myself, I am a very emotional person. I would probably die of exhaustion, or I don't know? At least we'd have a very, very hard time mentally in this world of The Witcher. And I'm like, okay, so where are all the soft people at?
ALYSSA: Where are soft boys? Hey, James.
JAMES: Yeah, I was–
ROBIN: I would also have soft, sad girls you know?
JAMES: I was gonna say there are all these great women characters for people to identify with. And then there's people for me, like Jaskier who is a soft boy who can't do shit, and who knows it. I have a role model too.
ALYSSA: But as I said, I'm really interested in seeing, like, where the conversation on femininity and like V feminine kind of goes in this series. As Ciri grows as we get more characters, there are a few that come to mind some that have already been announced, for example, like Milva for the next season, we're finally gonna see her on screen–
JAMES: Yes. Yeah.
ALYSSA: –who's I think in the same mold as someone more like Calanthe. And yeah, so as we close out the scene Yennefer is kind of running she split off from Jaskier and the sex worker that we had seen earlier in the episode that Yennefer had spoken to, waves her into a building. And once Yennefer's safely inside, it's revealed that the sex workers brought the guards in order to collect a bounty on Yennefer. So that's where we leave her for the moment.
ROBIN: Like, regardless of our sympathies for Yennefer, that was smart on her part, of the sex worker’s part. It's like more monies!
ALYSSA: Yeah, the continent feels like a dog-eat-dog world. So it kind of makes sense that she is looking out for herself, and when you get 40,000 Orens for turning in this woman. That's a good chunk of money, yeah.
JAMES: That's a lot.
ROBIN: That's a good lot of money. Yeah, I mean, Who is this lady in her bright purple coat whilst trying to be in hiding, but still wearing a bright purple coat.
ALYSSA: Oh my god. It's the worst decision.
JAMES: Yeah, and wasn't Cahir's, like, seafoam green or something?
ROBIN: Yeah.
JAMES: They didn't do a great job.
ALYSSA: In the next scene, Triss confronts Ciri about her intent to become a Witcher and Ciri reveals her fears and insecurities to the sorceress. Triss proposes a Dol Durza, which will allow them to explore her genetic history. So this is a new construct from the show from what I can remember of the books, Ciri actually tells Triss like, "I'm sick of feeling lost everything I was told my whole life was a lie. And the people I love most in this world were taken from me before I could learn the truth" and Triss responds to her "What you're doing, what you're proposing, becoming a Witcher isn't going to change any of that" Ciri’s response is, "It might help me find a new truth."
ROBIN: Yeah, I was thinking about like, there was something that was bugging me sometimes about the show. I remember that from watching it for the first time. Even when I read the books I was sometimes like "Wait, wait, wait, hold on. I don't know what you guys are talking about." And it's maybe because this is how television is right now, but they're being very unspecific with what they're talking about, and for some reason, half the time I have no idea what they're specifically talking about, like, what exactly is the lie of her whole life of like, is it just your magical powers? Because–
ALYSSA: I think it's her elven heritage specifically.
JAMES: Yeah.
ROBIN: Right. Okay. I sometimes have the time during the show. I was like, you're going so fast. I don't know what the frick you're talking about. Wait, I read the books, but I'm not following.
ALYSSA: To be fair, that is a fair critique.
JAMES: Yeah.
ALYSSA: It teeters back and forth between trying to give too much information and trying to stick to the lore.
ROBIN: Yeah
ALYSSA: Versus trying to come up with something "actiony" for the sake of action.
JAMES: Yeah.
ALYSSA: It's not even about coming up with something new because I don't mind that at all. It's, I think, just generating action and generating stress. And I feel like having a critique of the pacing or of the depth of information is still fair. And as we discover from this conversation, Ciri still has a lot of, like, uncertainties around the fact that, you know, she's alone. She has this power that she's uncapable of using effectively or safely, and everyone around her seems to die or is dead. What Triss proposes at this point is something called a Dol Durza, and she says it means Valley of the Soul. It'll quote "allow her to enter the deepest layer of her consciousness and uncover things that may be hidden there." Genetic memories is what Triss calls them, that tell the story of who you really are and where you come from. When they get into this. It's almost like a dream sequence or like a mind palace, something like that, where there are all these people from different points in her life mingling in this tavern. Suddenly Triss realizes there's something wrong when Pavetta, who is Ciri's mother, sees them and tries to interact with them. Triss is suddenly on edge and Ciri keeps going, though, throughout this scene. Eventually, she's drawn toward the sound of a crying baby and as we'll find out, it's two crying babies. The first is Ciri herself, she opens the door and comes across her parents on the night that they died. Duny tells Pavetta, "People will believe this prophecy about our child, we have to do something, we have to go away, and like the boat is ready." And Pavetta has all these doubts, of course. And if you're familiar with the series, you know that they eventually die on that boat ride. They continue on through this sequence and they come to, like, this cleared out field that is covered in Feainnewedd, which is the flower that sprouts where Elder Blood is spilled. There's an elven woman there, you know, in a beautiful yellow gown, who's holding a child and comforting it and we can see this huge blood stain coming out from her torso onto her dress. So it's very clear that she's dying. When Triss and Ciri actually approach, she strangles Triss and starts to prophesize, and lays down something that we recognize from the books and from the series.
JAMES: As far as this thing goes, it's one of my favorites in the entire season. I love everything it kind of represents for Ciri. She's just cycling through, people watching her, taking care of her, being friends with her. And they all go out of her life in some way or another. I think she's feeling kind of vulnerable at this point, not only because she wants to get bigger and stronger to protect herself, but because Geralt has also just left her at Kaer Morhen. And I think maybe she's feeling nervous that after seeing all these people in this Valley of Souls that have left her, I've, I feel like maybe she has a small fear in her that Geralt could be one of them, because he's just shown that if he's got something to do, he's gonna go do it and leave her in the care of people she's known for a couple of weeks. But I think this is a great exploration of Ciri's past and how far she has really come in just the short amount of time to becoming kind of self sufficient. She can take care of herself.
ROBIN: Yeah, they have like little clues spread out about what they're trying to drive home with this episode and what they're trying to all tie together. Now you have like the prophecy about the child of Elder Blood, the world will die in its frost, etc. And now they're like linking that prophecy to Ciri because we now know, okay, she's of Elder Blood. So this prophecy is linked to her, which is also what we see with Duny and Pavetta earlier, but this lady is also being connected to the Elder Blood because there's the Feainnewedd all over this tree while this lady is bleeding to death. So this lady is connected to her. It's also very striking that we see all these blonde women everywhere. So it's kind of like okay, they're all connecting that and then Ciri and the Elder Blood are linked to the monoliths, because while this is happening, Ciri's screaming for Geralt and Geralt is hearing her at the site of the monolith. So it's like they're tying together, okay, Ciri is Elder Blood, this lady is Elder Blood, the prophecies linked to her, and the monoliths are connected to this as well. So they're, like, taking all these little bits and pieces of info and they're all like, as a viewer you like, I don't know what this whole thing is. But this episode is kind of telling you like, these are all the strings that are going to tie together and make sense at some point and they're purposefully keeping it vague. So like, it's going to make sense when there's like other pieces of the puzzle being added, but like they're making big steps with that here. And I really, really like that because when analyzing the episode, you’re like, noticing that there's a lot more that they're saying in this episode already, apart from this scene, so that's, like, really great.
JAMES: I love that they take one of those strings, like you said, and they bring it back to episode one.
ROBIN: Yeah.
JAMES: Ciri recognizes this woman as this is the story of Lara Dorren that she heard at Nivellen's house. So they're taking things, I mean, if you don't know all the lore or anything that could have just been a throwaway story to fill some time and show Nivellen's magic house, but now they're tying this back into it and you're like, oh, shit, that's Ciri's ancestors. Now you're getting this bigger picture that hasn't fully tied together, like you said, Robin, and we have all these dangling threads that some of them are tying like in the middle of other threads, and you gotta just make it all into a big knot at the end, and it's so good.
ALYSSA: At this point, the Elven woman begins to strangle Triss, Ciri's cries for Geralt split the medallion tree and cause a rupture in the gorge in Cintra. And this brings us back to, of course, the gorge in Cintra. Geralt and Istredd are sharing one brain cell at the bottom of a canyon. Now that they're finally down in the gorge, they make a hypothesis about the power of the monoliths and Geralt finally learns that Yennefer's alive. At the end of this, Ciri's screams causes the stellacite fragments to fly and a new monster emerges, the Chernobog. At this point Geralt demands that, like, Istredd open up a portal to Kaer Morhen to send him home. Kind of going back to the lore and again like Istredd's knowledge of the monoliths and stuff, he, again, you know, shares that he was at the archeological site in Nazair and the night of the massacre of Cintra, there was a huge wave that lasted a few seconds, but the dates align with the slaughter at Cintra. So he knows that whatever caused this (Geralt know it’s Ciri, spoiler) would have triggered that earthquake, for lack of a better word, in his Nazair. James, you spiritually moved to talk about the monoliths?
JAMES: Yes. So it seems the way that they are setting these up is that the monoliths are very similar to their mythological purpose in the world, as far as people have written. As demonstrated in Outlander, these standing stones or monoliths or anything, are passages to other worlds, other times, other planes, whatever fits the story. I appreciate that they're using this as lore for the Conjunction of the Spheres. This is where the monsters came from, this is where they passed through into this plane. It is a little weird that they are specific points in the world that is where these monsters will pass through, only from the specific spots. But I've thought throughout all of season two, they are doing a very good job of laying groundwork for Blood Origin.
ALYSSA: It's definitely an interesting invention for the show, because we don't have anything remotely like this, in the books. There's not as much emphasis on the Conjunction of the Spheres having, having such present effects in the world. Like obviously, there are monsters now and there's like different species, but it's not like there's anything actively going on with the conjunctions still, the way that there is in the show. So yeah, I think Blood Origin will definitely give answers for that.
ROBIN: And I think like, that's what we talked about before. Like, they're tying all the little strings together. This is like, very, very important because the unset conclusion that Geralt makes in the audience makes like, it's Ciri, who activated it, that earthquake in Nazair and also toppled the monolith. And it's Ciri who’s connected to this in, like, a super mega big way. And that's like another clue of like, Elder Bloods, this vision with the Elven lady, Pavetta, Duny–
ALYSSA: The Messiah War!
ROBIN: The Messiah War! Who even knows? Yeah, so like, again, this is connecting all the stuff back.
ALYSSA: Yeah, you know, the one other conclusion that Istredd makes is that not only are these talking to each other, but there are serving as gateways to other spheres that were once connected at the time of the Conjunction, which is when we get back to the whole concept of the portals, rather than the scars of impact. That specific conclusion makes the rest of the season make sense.
JAMES: Yeah.
ALYSSA: What they're building toward particularly in retrospect.
JAMES: Score one for the nerds. Istredd’s nailed it down.
ALYSSA: Is Istredd also a character made for you James or is he too competent?
JAMES: Oh, oh, he is way too smart. No, I can't identify with Istredd.
ROBIN: I thought we established I was Istredd and you were Geralt.
JAMES: Oh, yeah. Robin's Istredd, I'm–oh shit. Oh, boy. All right. I'll take it.
ROBIN: I mean, you get to swing two swords around. That's great.
JAMES: Robin, to think that I could swing a sword. Can we please move on?
ALYSSA: Oh man.
JAMES: This is where we talk about our favorite scene of the show, Geralt and Istredd realizing they both know Yennefer. My favorite line from the entire show is, "Yenna!" "Yen..." Oh, my god.
ALYSSA: They're so dumb, they're like the most dumb. Oh, my god.
JAMES: This is where we find out that Yennefer has terrible taste in men, she only likes idiots.
ALYSSA: Our sweet little himbos.
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Istredd finally reveals like, "Oh, I actually came to Cintra because I was in pursuit of a woman" and Geralt's like, "Oh, my god, here we go." And he was like "Yen.."
JAMES: And Geralt's like "Oh, okay".
ALYSSA: I know! And then Istredd is like, "Yenna!" and Geralt's like, "What the fuck? No, no."
JAMES: Oh, my god.
ALYSSA: They just have this moment, you could see the cogs turning in both of their heads and being like, they're, they're making so much effort to make the connection. Oh, my God, it's yeah, one brain cell, each half half of a brain cell at the bottom of this gorge.
JAMES: And this is essentially their parting moment. As soon as they figure this out, Ciri creates the Chernobog and Geralt's like “I gotta go.” So this is their final lingering memory of each other, that they're both into Yennefer. And neither of them knew.
ALYSSA: And then on the subject of Ciri's voice coming through, I don't know? The mono–I don't know where it's coming from, like, I don't know, if it's like her voice would come out from the monolith, like a really bad boombox. I don't imagine her voice is literally all over the continent. Like, it makes sense that they're at a monolith site, which she has whatever primal connection she has to it.
JAMES: Yeah.
ALYSSA: So maybe it is like a really weird, massive boombox speaker. Her screams caused something to happen. Again, we don't really know the extent of what her powers are actually doing or are capable of, but her screams then cause this stellacite to kind of like, the way that I describe it–we recorded the next few episodes for episode 206 yesterday, in real time. The formation of the Chernobog, again, because it's really unclear how this kind of happens if it's literally built of the stellacite fragments or if it used the stellacite fragments to come through. Like as a portal.
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: In any case, it kind of reminds me of, of a Digimon, a Bionicle, like it just kind of like Transformers up into like a Chernobog and then it's just like peace! And then like flies the heck away, and Geralt's it's just kind of like watching this happen.
JAMES: That's going to be something I have to deal with eventually.
ALYSSA: Yeah it was one of those things that I was like, oh, okay, I guess we're going in this direction now, and it felt like a hard turn for the series.
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we continue our discussion, we’re going to hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, James, Robin, and I will continue our discussion of “Turn Your Back”.
“Tidings from Toussaint”
[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]
LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody! The filming is again in full swing. It was on a short break though, after Henry Cavill had caught COVID. According to his posts on Instagram he is fine, luckily. Since then the crew has returned to the set. So, let's see what is new.
At the moment the Witcher production crew is filming one of the most important scenes from the Witcher books: Director Loni Peristere is in charge of filming the infamous Thanedd Coup which will take place on the show in Episodes 5 and/or 6 of Season 3. Without spoiling too much, the Thanedd Coup is an action packed event involving a big number of mages and other characters, all with their own political agendas—except of course, for Geralt who is also present during the coup beside Yennefer and Ciri.
According to their social media, the current filming involved at least Cassie Clare (who plays Philippa Eilhart), Lars Mikkelsen (who is Stregobor), Safiyya Ingar (who almost definitely plays Keira Metz), Mecia Simson (as Francesca Findabair), and Rochelle Rose (as Margarita Laux-Antille), as well as Ryan Hayes (who will be the mage Artaud Terranova). Of course, we can expect many more actors and actresses to be present at Longcross Studios at the moment if you think about the sheer scope of the Thanedd Coup and all the characters that play a role in it. Moreover Redanian Intelligence reports that in the past weeks, dancers were present on the Witcher set. This, of course, hints at the fact that the crew might also be filming the famous Thanedd Ball at the moment, which takes place right before the Coup.
In other news, Redanian Intelligence also reports that the Witcher spinoff miniseries ‘Blood Origin’ could get a big overhaul. According to their sources, it will now consist of only 4 instead of 6 episodes, leaving a lot of scenes on the cutting room floor. These edits are an attempt to bring ‘Blood Origin’ closer to the main series. Moreover, and this is definitely very good news, there will be much more Jaskier in the show than previously thought. The more Joey Batey, the better!
Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!
[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]
“Dear Friend…”: Listener Call-in Segment
[Music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hi everyone! Welcome to our listener call-in segment, “Dear Friend…”. Keep on listening as members of our international hanza—and their moms—share their thoughts on what we’re discussing in this episode:
MICHELLE: Transcript to come.
MRS. CARSON (MICHELLE): Transcript to come.
MINDY: Transcript to come.
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Thanks to Michelle, Mrs. Carson, and Mindy for sending in their thoughts on Episode 205 “Turn Your Back”! Hear your voice in a future “Dear Friend…” segment by emailing greetings@breakfastinbeauclair.com or DMing the podcast on social for more information.
[Music by MojoFilter Media]
Discussion
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Vesemir and Triss had agreed to experiment on Ciri—but not before Triss performed a Dol Dusza, which allowed them to explore the princess’ genetic history. The ritual goes horribly wrong, causing a new monster to appear in front of Geralt and Istredd at the shattered monolith outside of Cintra. Meanwhile, Yennefer had been turned over to the city guard for a bounty.
As Vesemir is about to inject Ciri with their Witcher mutagen, Geralt arrives and stops the trial. They have Ciri kind of strapped to this frame. They ask her again. "Are you sure about this? Are you sure about this?" And she's like, "Yeah, hit me." And they're about to, and Geralt stops this immediately, and there's this somber moment between Geralt and Ciri, we haven't really figured out what Geralt's parenting style is like. But in this moment, Ciri confides in him like, "I want to be like you. I want to be indifferent to the past, to the lies, to the things I've done, please let me have that." And Geralt tells her "That's not how this works. Neither you nor I can just forget who we are, we can't kill our feelings, our best chance is to kill the hatred we may hold on to and move on." And I feel like this is a reality check to Geralt about how he's been coming across to his adoptive daughter. The fact that she perceives him as indifferent, that she perceives him as cold and unfeeling to an extent, you know, even though he cares about her, and that he's taking care of her, and is making sure that she's at least breathing and alive.
JAMES: Yeah.
ALYSSA: It kind of feels like Geralt might need to backtrack and approach parenting and guardianship a little bit differently.
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: We also get a small cut away to Vesemir and he's started to seem very bashful with this scene, now that his son has come home, and is kind of talking sense into the situation. Geralt has a very strong like, "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed look." And then he leaves the scene.
JAMES: I love that they've kind of twisted the narrative at this point, this whole episode, we are thinking that Ciri wants to do this so she can get stronger. So she can fight, physically fight the people who are coming after her, but now in this emotional moment, we understand that Ciri is doing this because she wants to forget the past. She has just heard from this prophecy that she's going to be the one to break the world, she wants to disassociate from all the trauma, she wants to just let it go because she thinks that that's what being a witcher is. She thinks that that's what Geralt is doing. Geralt's just like it's not how it works, and he's kind of grappling with that in this moment, too. This is maybe one of the first times, at least on screen, that he's having that realization himself that he still has these feelings, obviously when he's, you know, with Yennefer he's feeling stuff, but we don't really see him grapple with that until now, when he's realizing that Ciri thinks that that's what being a witcher is, you have no emotions. They also have a very interesting musical cue in this scene, I thought, we hear an instrumental version of The Song of the White Wolf, season one soundtrack. It's a very emotional song about Geralt, especially the lyrics: "Lay not your breast against him or lips to ease his roar/For the song of the White Wolf will always be sung alone". It's kind of in that moment, I like that, as Geralt is realizing that he's not alone, he has to show that to Ciri, that this is not a solitary life. As witchers we’re a family, you are now my child of destiny, I'm going to take care of you. So I love that that song kind of hits in the background of this scene, just based on the lyrics as we heard them, I think it was in the credits of one of the episodes of season one, and it's on the soundtrack. So I thought that was a brilliant little callback, as Geralt was having these realizations about himself and his lifestyle. Like, rewatching it I was able to pick up on that in the background, and I–my heart just started, like, hurting like oh man, because it's such an emotional song.
ROBIN: Yeah.
JAMES: It's so well done, and the lyrics are so well written. It's a beautiful little thing to bring back, specifically for this moment.
ALYSSA: And that's the note on which we leave Kaer Morhen, and Geralt, Ciri, Vesemir, and Triss for this episode, and we'll certainly revisit it in the following episode and see what the fallout is from this decision even getting so far. In the next scene, Istredd returns to his library in Cintra confused, he heads back by himself, the little Myriapod is still bloodied on the floor, I think something has turned green in there, and he's kind of again muttering to himself and trying to pull the pieces together. Again, this is a lead in for what we're going to see from him in Episode 206. His big takeaway is that like, is this what Calanthe was protecting? What did she know? What does all this mean? And he starts to investigate the Cintran royal bloodline, which is a convenient place to do it as he's in the Cintran library. So it's the seed–
ROBIN: Yeah.
ALYSSA: –which will be sewn for the rest of the series.
ROBIN: It's just projecting the question back to like the audience being like, there's something funky going on with the Cintran royal line now, there's something with Elder Blood. There's something interesting, and it's just throwing the seed out there. Like there's something going on, and you're going to find out.
JAMES: Yeah, and I love the little moment when he gets back when he goes over to the bus. And he's like, "I'm sorry, King Roegner."
ROBIN: Yeah.
JAMES: "Sorry for the disruption from what we were doing before. Sorry about the mess on the floor. I'm sorry about the library. I'll fix everything. Sorry, King Roegner". His relationship with that bust is just as cute as his relationship with Geralt. In fact, I think he cares more about the bust than he does about Geralt.
ROBIN: It's even set up for much later because they're very much zooming into like this one bit of the family tree that has Queen Fiona on it.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ROBIN: Which is like why does it end?! And he's like, I don't understand and then like, if you know what's going to happen in the books that's actually very significant. Like what happened here? What is this little thingy? That's weird. So it's, yeah, it makes sense that they're zooming in on it, like kind of sets up all the info dump that's going to happen later.
ALYSSA: Yeah, you know, at this point, we basically have two more introductions for episode 206. In the next scene as Fringilla and Francesca affirm their friendship and partnership, Cahir arrives at Cintra reuniting with Nilfgaardian forces. So this is actually a really lovely scene, I've spoken repeatedly on the podcast about how much I love Fringilla and Francesca's friendship. They have this quiet scene in the library in which Fringilla gives Francesca an update about like, here's what's been going on. This is what our supplies look like, this is what the arrivals look like. And Francesca is like, "You know what I've, I've never really had like a peer before. Like, I've had leaders. I've had followers, but I've never had a partner."
JAMES: So cute.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And then Fringilla, like, responds, and she's like, “Neither have I. It's not terrible." Like it's very sweet. And I think this is one of those examples of like, at least, you know, for the moment, it's a very nice female friendship, and it's a very supportive one. They're able to bond over their mutual interests, the advancement of both the Nilfgaardian and the Elven agendas, which, you know, I guess if you're gonna bond over something, that's fine. But they do seem to both serve and counter each other very well, which I really enjoy. And then Cahir comes back, and we're now in the back half of season two with Cahir's arrival.
ALYSSA: I love going through this episode, we've been only really talking about how Ciri wants to get stronger and more powerful so she can fight these people. And then we see Cahir asleep on the ship having a nightmare about that night with Ciri. Dude is just as scared of her as she is of him. Ciri's already a little force to be reckoned with. She wants to get bigger, stronger, but people are already afraid of her.
ROBIN: I just really love it when either when characters feel so much better than everybody else that they announce themselves, full title.
JAMES: He says the whole name, yeah.
ROBIN: His whole name, but I also know there's this one video with the actors. I forget his name.
ALYSSA: Uh, Eamon Farren.
ROBIN: Yeah. There's one game that they're playing and he keeps saying whole Cahir's name because he's so pleased that he can say it and I just love that. So that's like in fiction, that's one of my favorite tropes, people churning out their entire title to be like, "Look at me, I'm better than y'all." And also like when it just happens when it when there's people who just have a very long title like the kings and queens in Game of Thrones. It's also like, that's one of the things in the fiction world.
JAMES: Yeah. And Alyssa, you watched The Legend of Vox Machina, I get the same vibes at the Sun Tree when he says "I'm Percival Fredrickstein von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III."
ALYSSA: I thought you were gonna reference Zack and Cody. Esteban-
ROBIN: Yes!
JAMES: Esteban Julio Ricardo...
ROBIN: Dela Rosa or something.
JAMES: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Right at the end of the scene, we see Cahir's arrival, we also see Dara in line for his immigration to Cintra. So again, this is like one other little player that we're now throwing into the fire. I'm very excited about Dara. I was super nervous about seeing him in this season, as you'll know from 203 episodes, "What is Lost" but I'm enjoying the storyline for him.
JAMES: One small note I love from that scene is seeing the elves reclaiming Cintra calling it Xin'trea. I love that. They're taking it all back.
ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. More pieces more introduction for episode 206, and then our last introduction for episode 206. Bounded in custody, Yennefer turns to her final card, the Deathless Mother. So we've obviously seen Yennefer contend with this voice in her head for the last, you know, three episodes or so. And now that she's bound, they're preparing her for execution like that's what's going to happen. As they're picking her up, she sees no way out of this other than the Deathless Mother, so she recites little rhyme, and she ends up in the hut. And what she's, what she's told is, you know, "It's good to see you again, all alone in a world that hates you with no way to protect yourself. How delicious." and Yennefer at some point says, you know, "I deserve to survive, I've earned it. I deserve access to chaos.” The Deathless Mother puts, obviously, a condition on helping her get her chaos back. And we get this really interesting scene in which the camera encircles Yennefer and the Deathless Mother, she says that in order to get her chaos back, Yennefer has to bring this girl that the Deathless Mother has turned into to a shattered black door outside of Cintra, and Yennefer doesn't know, but the audience obviously knows that this girl is Ciri. So.
JAMES: Oooh.
ROBIN: Oooh.
JAMES: I am not a huge fan of the Deathless Mother storyline that will carry throughout the rest of the season. I liked the idea of Yennefer losing her powers from such a traumatic experience, and having to kind of bring them back. But I wish that they had found out some way that she could have done it of her own accord, like re-access her powers ourselves, it would have been a nice, like, overcoming the trauma, she's taking care of herself, and she's been able to unlock it. But instead, she sent off to get Ciri, which will be discussed in future episodes.
ROBIN: I remember saying that in the Discord at some point, like I have a lot of neutral feelings about the changes they've made, because I'm curious to see where they're gonna take it. So I'm like, willing to sit this out and see like, okay, what are they going to do with it? Why are they doing it? And I feel like at this point of what we know, it's like the Deathless Mother is part of trying to tie into the Conjunction of the Spheres and making it a more tangible thing that we can talk about, and that they can show in Blood Origin.
JAMES: Yeah.
ROBIN: So I'm like, okay, yeah, sure, I can sit it out and wait and see what happens. What more strikes me is that the Deathless Mother calls the monoliths a door. So for me, like what I was looking at the clues, I was like, oh, that's another one. That's another little string that they're tying back.
ALYSSA: The interesting thing about, like, the Deathless Mother, referring to the monolith as a door is really that, you know, obviously, we saw Istredd make the same conclusion when he and Geralt were down at the bottom of that gorge, in thinking that like maybe these are conduits. Geralt has already assumed that monsters are coming through them somehow, but they're both making assumptions and hypotheses within their own lived experiences based on you know, what they've learned, what they've studied, what they know, whereas we know the Deathless Mother has been around basically, since the Conjunction of the Spheres. This is something that was established a number of episodes ago, when Vesemir and Ciri were in the armory at Kaer Morhen. He talks about the very first Witcher, his name is Klef. I don't why I find that name funny for a Witcher, our man Klef. When Yennefer, Fringilla, and Francesca first find the Deathless Mother, that scene is spliced with Vesemir's story of her. So we do know that the Deathless Mother has been around since about the Conjunction. So even though Geralt and Istredd have made these hypotheses, I feel like the Deathless Mother's use of the word "door" adds much more weight to that hypothesis just because she was probably there. She probably knows.
JAMES: Yeah, she knows.
ALYSSA: Yeah. But so on that note, that's where we leave episode 205 "Turn Your Back". What are both of your final thoughts on this episode?
ROBIN: If you like this episode is kind of meant as a transitory episode? Is that normal english?
ALYSSA: That's a word, yeah.
JAMES: Yep.
ROBIN: Yeah, yeah. It's a transition, I feel like in the sense that there's not much happening per se. Other than that, it's very much trying to give you information and clues that you need. So the story of Yennefer and Jaskier, and the story of Cahir, and Fringilla and Francesca are stories that need to progress a little bit. So they've slightly progressed those stories, but this episode is mostly about giving us clues about and information about Elder Blood, the Conjunction of the Spheres, the way that Ciri's powers are connected with that. And I listed down like all the clues that we've seen, like, okay, so there's something funky about the Cintrian royal line, which is something Istredd is talking about. Ciri has royal blood, which is something that was established before but is now told to Ciri. And when she's prompted with that, she says, oh, my grandmother, she hated elves. So this sort of establishes that Elder Blood is hereditary, like it's something to do with elves. Ciri has powers, so she inherited that from her mother, so her powers are most likely connected with Elder Blood. Ciri's powers are able to topple monolith, which is wild, because the monoliths are not supposed to be shatterable. Then the monoliths are being connected to the Conjunction of the Spheres, they're probably doors. And that's something that's connected to mages, so it's something that actively was created and not just happened. And then a Child of the Elder Blood will destroy the world. So that's all kinds of things that they're trying to make this big knot out of that we've been visualizing, and I feel like they're actively making it a big ol’ knot that you're trying to see like, what the hell was going on here? But they're actively doing it to make you pose those questions and be like, what is going on there? There's something interesting and strange going on. Throughout the coming seasons, they're going to untie everything and yeah, make it strings that all tie together nicely, instead of being like a big jumbled mess that they're actively choosing to make it because that's nice and vague, and the big reveals will be great then. So I think that's what this episode is mostly trying to do apart from, like, progressing other storylines.
ALYSSA: Absolutely. James, what about you?
JAMES: Yeah, I mentioned earlier that I love episodes that are essentially just two people sitting in a room talking. And that's what this episode is, they are transitioning the storylines, and I think they do a good job of setting things up and wrapping a few things up from the first few episodes, it is very much moving into the second half of the season. I enjoy the lack of action a little bit in this one, it's a nice breather, you kind of get to see–especially Geralt solving his problems in a different way than beating someone up or killing a monster. He has to co-exist with another person. And that's always fun to see from him.
ALYSSA: With the other half of the brain cell.
JAMES: Yeah, he's connected. He's taken his and he's connected Istredd’s, we have a nice throughline to Yennefer there.
ROBIN: Yeah, I also enjoyed this episode a lot the way that it was, was the things you were saying, James.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I'm really open about my love for both shows and for individual scenes that are all about character building, or we see shifts in characters from you know, Ciri from Vesemir, maybe Yennefer. I'll add Yennefer to that pile as well. But it's definitely a transitory episode for sure.
JAMES: It's very much saying goodbye to the comfy days at Kaer Morhen and now shits happening.
ROBIN: Bye-bye cute family times!
ALYSSA: Now for the uncomfy days at Kaer Morhen. So that is it for our show today. James Robin, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. And thank you to our Hanza for listening. So James, where can people find you? And is there anything that our community can help you with or anything that you would like to share with them?
JAMES: Yeah, you can follow me on Twitter @JamesCarsonIII. If you care at all about all caps, tweets about sports news or superhero news, that's probably what you're gonna find on there. You can also follow me on Instagram at @jcarsoniii, there are pictures of dogs on there so that might be a little better. And at least for now, I have a side gig at TD Garden in Boston. So if you're ever at a Celtics or a Bruins game or just anywhere around the city, please let me know. Love to hang out. You can find me on a Hanza discord too. I will be there pretty much every day.
ROBIN: Yeah, I'm much less frequent on the discord nowadays because I am busy. I do not wish to be as busy as I am. But unfortunately it's true, but I'm on there as well. I do like talking with people a lot. So I'm on there.
ALYSSA: Yeah, and you can obviously find both James and Robin on the Hanza discord as well as in our d&d games. You can see them play Dungeons and Dragons a couple of times a week with our group. Yeah, that's it for our show, next episode join us as we discuss The Witcher season two episode six "Dear Friend". Yay!
ROBIN: Yay!
JAMES: I have to pee, so bad.
Outro & Credits
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.
Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.
Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Father of Bean, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Jeanette of Brokilon, Miriam of Temeria, and Softie.
Special thanks to James and Robin for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.
Transcriptionist: AJ Sarong
Editor: JM Sarong