Ep. 51 — 202 "Kaer Morhen" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 1)

David from WhibbsGames and Tracie, Miss Magitek, join Alyssa for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 202 “Kaer Morhen”. Very important bits include: TTRPGs and card games, shared dreams, parallels from The Witcher to our own lived experiences, the history of elves on the Continent, Geralt’s approach to fatherhood, speculation as to why Ciri hadn’t had any fighting training so far, connections to Nightmare of the Wolf and “Blood Origin”, and wooden beasts and Eskel’s… bucket list.

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

ALYSSA: In the next scene, Ciri wanders the armory and Vesemir tells her about the history of the Witchers. Did we completely skip over the fact that they brought in uhh…

TRACIE: Oh, yeah. The, the party scene?

ALYSSA: Yeah. Maybe I'll mention that.

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Introduction

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.

[Patron Announcements]

This episode, we welcome David from WhibbsGames—and one of our guests today—to our hanza on Patreon! As always, thank you to our producer-level patrons: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Father of Bean, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Roxas, and Jeanette of Brokilon.

If you’d like to hear more about becoming a patron of the show, visit patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.

[Episode Details]

As for this episode, David from WhibbsGames and Tracie, Miss Magitek, call in to discuss of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 202 “Kaer Morhen”. Join us as we discuss TTRPGs and card games, shared dreams, parallels from The Witcher to our own lived experiences, the history of elves on the Continent, Geralt’s approach to fatherhood, speculation as to why Ciri hadn’t had any fighting training so far, connections to Nightmare of the Wolf and “Blood Origin”, and wooden beasts and Eskel’s… bucket list.

In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares news on The Witcher Season 3. After the break, don’t miss our listener call-in segment, “Dear Friend”.

Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 202 “Kaer Morhen” (Part 1).

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa and I'm thrilled to welcome this episode's guests. My first guest is a web developer with a huge passion for storytelling, games, fantasy, and folklore. He has a degree in game development and has published independent projects on itch.io. Please welcome David from the US. Hey, David.

DAVID: Hi, how's it going?

ALYSSA: I'm lovely. How are you today?

DAVID: I'm doing so good. I'm thrilled to be on the podcast. I've listened to all the episodes so far, huge fan, really excited.

ALYSSA: It's quite a lot of episodes. It's like at least 30 episodes. And you'll also recognize my second guest from her previous appearances on Breakfast in Beauclair Episode 28 “Much More”, as well as the Season 3 trailer. She's a product manager for a gaming and tech company who creates gaming, D&D, and Witcher related content through streaming, cosplay, and YouTube. Please welcome Tracy, Miss Magitek from the US. Hi, Tracie.

TRACIE: Helloooo. Hi, everybody. I am so happy to be back. It's been a while actually since I've been on the podcast last.

ALYSSA: I know, and I'm delighted for you to be here. I'm so thrilled to be talking to you both about Episode Two Kaer Morhen from The Witcher season two. But before we dive into that, I'd love to get to know both of you and for our audience to, as well. David, I'd love to start with you. How did you get into the Witcher and what brought you into this fantasy universe?

DAVID: Yeah, well, like a lot of people I started off by playing The Witcher 3. To be honest, I wasn't super into it the first time I tried it. There was just so much right off the bat that I was not familiar with. So many characters and backstories that you just really need to know about before it makes sense. A couple of years went by and I didn't really go back to it. And then I came across a video by a guy named Joseph Anderson. He makes a lot of critique videos about video games. This one is, like, four hours long talking about The Witcher 1 and it really got me so much more interested into it. There's so much going on in the books and the games that I had no idea, that started a passion and I listened to all the books in, like, a month. And I've got back into The Witcher 3 and I've just been so into it since that.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I definitely feel the same way. I think when I played the Witcher 3 for the first time I had no idea what the heck was going on. I didn't really feel any personal investment in the characters because I didn't have all of that history reading the books, watching the show. If I went back to The Witcher 3 now it would be an entirely different experience. Do you have the same experience as well?

TRACIE: I did actually. I too again, like, like, David and many others first played The Witcher three. And that's how I got into the universe. It was interesting for me because I've always been a big fan of single player, like, immersive storytelling role playing games, like, some of my other favorite games are Dragon Age, and Divinity Original Sin, and all these games. And I played The Witcher 3 a few years after it came out because I think The Witcher 3 came out in 2015. And I didn't play it when it first released. I don't know about you guys, you guys play it, like, when it first launched or?

ALYSSA: I did.

TRACIE: Like, years later?

DAVID: I believe that a couple of years later.

TRACIE: Okay. Yeah, same. So, I only got into it in 2017, 2018? And yeah, from there, it just spawned into this love for I had to just get into everything else about it, get into the lore of the world. And that happens to me a lot when I'm playing, like, role playing games. I just want to learn more about the worlds that they've created. And so, I read all the books and played The Witcher 2. The Witcher 1; I didn't play, but I watched a playthrough of it, because it's very difficult.

ALYSSA: I've heard it's painful. Yeah.

TRACIE: Yeah, exactly, so I watched somebody else play through it. But then yeah, it just spawned this love for the world and everything about the Witcher universe. And yeah, and that's how I got here.

ALYSSA: So, the other thing I wanted to talk to both of you about was that you both have a relationship to the gaming industry as well. David, you've said you've independently published some games on your own. I'd love to hear more about that.

DAVID: Yeah, so I went to school for game development. And as part of that, we made some projects. I have always loved games ever since I was, like, in preschool. The thing about games is they are so unique as an art form in that the player, the person experiencing it, has input on it. They're able to interact with it and make their own experience. I think that's so interesting and there's so many ways for people to connect through video games, or just games in general. Personally, over these past few years, it's been really helpful to have games to be connected to people that I don't really see very much anymore. Building friendships, it's a great way to break ice with people. Um, I made a game, a card game that simulates working in a busy kitchen, and it's really hectic and crazy, people always shouting, having fun, and I just, I love games.

ALYSSA: Is there like a specific genre of games that you really enjoy creating or playing?

DAVID: Yeah. I mean, I play a lot of different kinds of games. Card games, in particular are a lot of fun. There's a lot of unique things you can do with cards. Gwent is fantastic. That's--

TRACIE: I was gonna say! Have you played a lot of Gwent?

DAVID: I played a fair bit. I played the Thronebreaker game.

TRACIE: Yeah.

DAVID: I really enjoyed that one. It was really interesting to see Queen Meve perspective throughout this whole storyline.

TRACIE: It's fun. Yeah.

DAVID: There are a lot of really strong female characters in The Witcher series.

TRACIE: Yes! My Philipa portrait in the background and I have a Meve one too.

DAVID: Oh, nice.

ALYSSA: Tracie's pictures are very large. I just want you to know at home.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: They're beautiful.

TRACIE: Yeah, we're doing a video right now. And so yeah, you guys can see my awesome portraits of all the strong women in The Witcher in my room, because I love them.

ALYSSA: If you would like to see them yourself, probably go to Tracie's YouTube and they'll probably be in the back there.

TRACIE: Exactly. Yeah.

ALYSSA: Tracie you also mentioned that you have an interest right now in immersive role playing games. Can you tell us more about that? Like, what have you gotten into lately? Is there anything new on the market that listeners might love?

TRACIE: Yeah, It's interesting. I've had an interesting journey through gaming, I feel like. I've been streaming on Twitch and trying to make content on the side, away from my day job, which is cool, because my day job is, I work for a tech company and I do, you know, gaming marketing stuff, so it already ties into that. But I started my journey doing more competitive games when I first started streaming. I play Starcraft II and I played super competitively, which was cool, but as I've, like, gotten older, and I've gone through a lot more gaming, I find myself enjoying more playing these immersive games where you can just relax and go through a story and learn about the world, learn about the characters, connect with the characters. And you know, that's what happened with the Witcher. I connected not just with Geralt but all of these other characters that you meet. Yennefer, Ciri, Triss, all of these characters. I just love them all. Dandelion.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

TRACIE: Like, I'm just so in love with everybody. And that's just what I think means the most to me now when I play games. It's like what I get out of games is these really unique storytelling. And I've taken that not just from video games, but also into tabletop role playing games. And that's become, like, a big thing for me now is playing, you know, D&D, and all these other games like Cyberpunk, Cyberpunk Red Tabletop Game, Vampire the Masquerade is another big tabletop role playing game that…it's just all these ones where it's like about the cool storytelling that you can do. And that's just become my thing now is just all about, like, playing these RPGs whether it be video games, or tabletop.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, that's an awesome thing to have and to get into. Today, we'll continue our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher season two with episode 202 Kaer Morhen, in which Yennefer, Fringilla, and Francesca cross an old power as the Witchers face a threat inside their keep. In the first scene, Yennefer dreams of a simple life with Geralt, but their baby bursts into flames in its bassinet and a figure in a red cloak appears holding the baby. Yennefer, awakens suddenly, finding herself captured with Fringilla by an elven convoy led by Filavandrel. Filavandrel presents the sorceresses to Francesca, the leader of the Elves. Yennefer learns that Francesca has been visited by a white robed elf. So, the opening of this episode is disorienting, I think? Just because Geralt and Yen are together. In the next frame, Yennefer is pregnant. And then the next frame their baby's on fire. It's a very sudden transition to realizing what has happened since the last episode that Yennefer and Fringilla have been captured. It's a really interesting insight into the Elves and the culture that we'll get to explore with them throughout the rest of the season.

DAVID: It was really interesting to see Filavandrel. At the time of this recording, the episode on Nightmare of the Wolf just came out and I've just learned that Filavandrel was played by the same voice actor as the guy who's playing him in the live action series. And so, I just think that's so cool. About Yennefer and her dream, it's very disorienting like you said. The baby catching on fire was a crazy moment.

TRACIE: Yeah, it was a little, like, disturbing when I first watched it, I knew immediately I was like, okay, this is definitely, seeing like Yennefer and Geralt in, like, normal clothes.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

TRACIE: Like, their regular, like, house clothes. I was like, Okay, this is definitely not real when I first saw it. Yeah.

ALYSSA: And I think Geralt’s line about like, I was only at the market. I was selling the herbs you got for pennies. And I was like, alright, take it down a little bit.

DAVID: It was really sweet to see that, like, this is what Yennefer would dream about. This is her dream life. Simple, nice family life with Geralt. I don't know, there's something sweet about that.

TRACIE: Yeah. So after Yennefer wakes up, and we find out again that Fringilla and Yennefer  have been captured. I personally, I think for me, one of the reasons why I want to talk about this episode is because I actually love the scenes with Fringilla, Yennefer and the other elves that we meet later in this episode that we'll talk about later. I, personally, that was my big thing about this episode was learning about the elves and learning about these mages, I thought was a really cool setup for the rest of the season. This is what I think excited me the most about this episode, more than some of the other things so I thought it was pretty cool.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I know that Tracie, you're a big elf, Scoia'tael girl.

TRACIE: Yes. Yeah, I'm, I'm Team Elf. Yeah.

ALYSSA: We've never gotten to explore the elves yet. And we probably will in Blood Origin as we'll get hints of all throughout this episode, but seeing what their culture is like, seeing what their circumstances are like, we can see that they're a roaming convoy, they don't have a home at the moment. They're looking around, they're scavenging. There's not really food available in this episode and setting up the foundation for what will change in the rest of the season.

TRACIE: One thing when they're walking and Filavandrel is taking them to meet Francesca, they see some of the Elven ruins. One quote that I thought was really cool was one of the Elves says “better lost to history than to humans”. Basically saying that the elves would rather destroy their own temples and turn them to ruin than actually have humans do it. That begins to show the characterization of the Elves and they're so prideful. And the pride of the Elves is something that we learn more and more as we get through this episode, and through many more of the season. And that's, like, one of the first setups of this. They are just so prideful, that they'd rather destroy their own temples and ruins than have a human come and do that, so it's very interesting.

DAVID: Absolutely. I think one of the most powerful parts of The Witcher as a whole is just the depictions of all the different races and their interactions with each other. We can see with the Elves and the humans there's a cycle of violence and hatred that flows between them. And growing up in a Jewish household, I've certainly had to learn a lot about that in my personal history. And fiction is often an analogue for things that are going on in real life. And I just really like seeing that depicted in an honest form.

ALYSSA: And I think that there's, like, another way in which that idea also manifests later in the scene. When Yennefer and Fringilla are then brought to Francesca, Francesca is very upset that Filavandrel has brought what were supposedly gifts and turn out to be human sorcerers. And then they have a short conversation in Elvish that Yennefer then interrupts because she's quarter-elvish through her dad. It causes Francesca to turn on her, take a look at our ears and say like, "Do you sing our songs? You honor our traditions? Have you shed a tear for anything elven? You are no elf." That idea of using fantasy as a vehicle for things that happen in our own world is something that stood out to me because, you know, I'm Asian American. And whenever I think you're hyphenated, especially as an American, there's always this idea of, like, not being enough of one or the other. And we see that here in Yennefer too. Members of the Brotherhood of sorcerers, notably Stregobor and Francesca's uncle, have used Yennefer's elven heritage to vilify her to the other sorcerers. At the same time, she meets Francesca, she tries to put herself forward as a member of their culture as a member of their society. And Francesca just doesn't accept that. So, it's something that I found really interesting. And I've seen my own experiences reflected back through the Witcher.

TRACIE: The last thing I guess, for me on this section, and going back a little bit pre-meeting Francesca, when Yennefer and Fringilla are first captured, and they're in the little wagon, and they realize, like, they might be screwed here. One thing that I think you wrote down Alyssa was the quote, where Fringilla is like, I have faith. And Yennefer says, “Forget faith, we've got power”. I think this is one thing I think we'll probably touch on a bit in this episode. The difference between Fringilla and Yennefer, and their views on life, really. Fringilla still obviously believes in the White Flame and that's something we saw a lot in season one, and she's all about this faith. Meanwhile, Yennefer is somebody who basically believes in herself and her own strength and her own power. I really liked that line and I think that that's something that's a contrast between the two of them. And I, I look to see more of in this episode, and I think it's a very interesting dynamic. The whole faith versus your own power type thing.

ALYSSA: When we actually get to exploring that, there's that huge question of like, is this a value, a virtue? Or is this a detriment to their character? What happens when these things are lost or pursued when faith turns into something else when power is lost? It's a compelling setup, and it gives him somewhere to go in a way that we didn't get to see it in the same way in season one. In the next section, Geralt brings Ciri to Kaer Morhen, the Witcher's Keep, where they meet fellow Witchers, Vesemir, Lambert, and Cohen. Another Witcher, Eskel, returns to the keep with a leshy's arm and meets the Cintran Princess. We get the second scene where, you know, we finally get to see Kaer Morhen. And I'm a huge fan of Kaer Morhen. And I named my first Witcher project, GoodMorhen, after the keep. And it was really cool to see the keep alive in a way that we even didn't in the books.

TRACIE: Yeah, live action Kaer Morhen was everything that I would want it to be and expect it to be. And I just thought it was so cool, just seeing that snowy Witcher keep way out there in the mountains. I think when I first watched this for the first time, I was just blown away by the scene because it was just so cool to actually see Kaer Morhen in live action. And it just got me all giddy and excited. So yeah, I think that the Kaer Morhen depiction of it in the show is amazing.

DAVID: Absolutely. I feel like they did an incredible job replicating the courtyard from the games. You can see those posts where, like, Ciri does all her training in Witcher 3.

TRACIE: Yes!

DAVID: It's also really cool to see that big dining hall where they're all gathered together. It's just a great feeling to see them all coming here to be safe for the winter.

TRACIE: Yeah, it was cool to just see a little, like, Witcher family reunion because clearly, they haven't seen each other in such a long time and getting that bond of them reuniting for the first time, I also thought was really cool.

ALYSSA: Yeah, because the only Witcher that we saw in season one aside from Geralt was in a tub of salt without his eyeballs. So it was nice to, like, actually see the familial bond they've developed over the years. You know, we've seen that in the games previously, we see that in the course the Blood of Elves in the book, but to have it on screen, and for there to be so much joy is really nice and really heartwarming.

DAVID: It was great to see Lambert and Cohen. I mean, we didn't see a whole lot of them this episode, but going forward, we get to see that they really have a tight bond. And I just love that. Ciri, it really seems like she is starting to regain a lot of her pride. After going through so many trials and tribulations in the last season, she's really holding herself up straight. She's clad like a regal princess. And it seems like she really wants to fit in with these guys as well. Like, she feels like she is powerful. And she's ready to regain that power.

ALYSSA: Absolutely. The funny thing that we know about Ciri from the books, and we'll see to what extent they do this in the Netflix show is that she's just like a little sponge and a little mirror. Whatever everyone around her was doing, she also does so it's nice though to see her as he said, like, get back some of that security. And it changes how she presents herself, which is really important, I think for someone who's developing and who suddenly has stability again.

TRACIE: I guess the next thing that happens is when Eskel kind of appears in this scene. It's our first introduction to Eskel as a character and he comes in with this leshy. It's interesting because I like the one moment here with Vesemir, where Vesemir says that "Fire through the heart is the only thing that puts one down. Six hours and that didn't occur to you." I love that line in it. And you know, we're getting our first introduction to Vesemir as well. And this is, like, how I kind of pictured Vesemir in his, like, Witcher monster-lore mode. And I think this is more characterization that we get from the games more than the books, but I still think it's good. A good characterization where Vesemir is very much, like, the one to tell all the witchers to study up on their monsters. Like, you should have read your Ghouls and Alghouls, kids. And that's a characterization of Vesemir that I've always liked. And they show that a little bit here where he's like, Yeah, you got to do fire through the heart to kill a leshy, Eskel. That was another moment in this particular scene that I really liked.

ALYSSA: And we talked about the continuity in the lore as well between the properties in the Netflix universe, right? Like in Nightmare of the Wolf, Vessemir killed the leshy in the very first scene, and that was the exact same way he did it. He poured oil on his sword, lit it on fire, and stabbed it straight to the heart. The writer for this episode is Beau DeMayo, who also wrote Nightmare of the Wolf. So, it was cool to see the continuity of some of those pieces of lore and also even individual lines through both of these pieces of media. That's one of the things that was nice. Although, it's interesting to see, like, how Vesemir suddenly gets, like, a Danish accent, I think.

DAVID: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Between, between Nightmare of the Wolf and the Witcher season two, but it's very fun.

TRACIE: Yeah, there's a lot of Nightmare of the Wolf references in this particular episode, and I'm sure we'll talk on more, but it was just very interesting to see so much of that referenced in this particular episode. And it makes sense that the writer of the episode also did Nightmare of the Wolf.

ALYSSA: And I'm sure that when we watch, especially this episode, again, with the context of Blood Origin, we're gonna be sitting there like, Did you see that? Did you see that? Did you see that? This episode in particular, I think it's gonna be really exciting to revisit. After Eskel and Ciri meet, we kind of get a smash cut to the title. And then we open up on Geralt and Vesemir. Outside of the keep, Vesemir confronts Geralt about his new ward as Ciri looks for a room of her own in the keep. The conversations between Geralt and Vesemir throughout this episode, and also throughout the season are so interesting, and they're part of the storytelling and the production that I'm personally very curious about, because we don't necessarily see Geralt in a ton of conversations across the board. So, I'm so curious to hear about, like, how Henry and Kim actually went, sat down and explored and discussed the relationship between Geralt and Vesemir and what that relationship should be. But yeah, I know Lauren Hissrich has talked about in interviews that to an extent Geralt would have learned how to be a good father from Vesemir, so his arc in the season is different than what it kind of was in Blood of Elves. I'm just really curious to see, like, how that was really explored, but it's cool to see it manifest here.

DAVID: Absolutely. It seems like both the actors and the characters have a lot of respect for each other. You know, Vesemir calls Geralt out for invoking the law of surprise on Ciri and then choosing not to pick her up at first and then going back and getting her. He knew that he was going to get called out but as we've seen, the law of surprise is really. It's a big deal in this series. You can't play around with it. And Geralt knows that, Vesemir really knows that.

TRACIE: Yeah, I love this whole conversation between the two of them, this whole sit down and talk outside the keep. Was it Vesemir or Geralt says this? But, “remember what happened the last time the Witcher's butted heads into the drama's of courts and kingdoms”. I think that this is another reference to Nightmare of the Wolf.

ALYSSA: I believe so, yeah.

TRACIE: Yeah, that's what I got from it. I guess you guys did too, with, like, the sacking of Kaer Morhen and that it's, like, another, again, nod to Nightmare of the Wolf and another, like, kind of teaching moment or discussion between the two of them that I really liked.

ALYSSA: I think it's one of those funny things where, like, Vesemir was going to give him the warning, but whether or not Geralt acts upon it, or doesn't act upon it is an entirely different story. I think we talked about so much about Geralt's desire for neutrality, and then his inclination to, like, not do that. He has a tendency to, like, have his lofty ideals and then just do whatever he needs to do in order to protect who he loves. And we'll see that more throughout the rest of the season, but this idea very much starts between Episode One and Episode Two, for sure. On the subject of Geralt being super protective, he wants to protect Ciri. And he wants to keep her in the keep long enough to, like, figure out who she is. And what she is. We're finally seeing Geralt's guard come down and he's being more honest with Vesemir in this moment than we've seen him be with Ciri. At least about his intentions. He obviously wants to protect her, he wants to be safe, but he has a specific motive in holeing her up in one place for an entire season.

DAVID: I think it's really interesting, Geralt's dynamic with Ciri and then Vesemir's dynamic with Geralt, you know? Vesemir, he's raised a lot of kids, kids are going to do whatever they're gonna do. Geralt isn't super experienced with that parenthood role and is really trying, it seems like to keep Ciri where he wants her, keep her controlled on a leash, but Vesemir knows that's not gonna happen.

TRACIE: Yeah, and he'll learn that that's not the case. So you can't do that, but it's true, Vesemir is like he's gonna have to learn this. Geralt's gonna have to learn this by himself. Yeah.

ALYSSA: I think that's, like, a truth in parenting in general. Like, you can read all of the parenting and self-help books you want, but when that baby lands in your lap, everything goes straight out the window, because you have, because you have this little human now that doesn't give a damn about all the books that you've read. And this is, you know, doubly so when Geralt inherits a teenager.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: So, the last little thing that happens, that's a little notable in this scene in Kaer Morhen is that Ciri is, you know, going around looking for rooms, and then Eskel actually brash toward her in the hallway, and is giving her a hard time. You know, I think it's meant to be implied that he's acting out of character, but with the limited amount of time that we've seen him, this isn't really something that we can confirm or deny at this point. He just kind of seems like a bit of a dick.

DAVID: Yeah.

ALYSSA: But the actor, Basil did that wonderfully, but he's at this point, just a bit of a dick to Ciri.

TRACIE: Yeah, I think it's um, a first watch through didn't fully pick up on that. And that's the, the cool thing about these episodes is you can pick up a lot more watching them a second or a third time. And so, that's something that I think I did pick up more my second and third time watching this episode was yes, this is clearly trying to show, this is kind of out of character for Eskel, and he's being very, very bizarre and acting out of character. So, that was something maybe not able to pick up in the first watch through, but I like that you can pick up these little details after watching again.

DAVID: Yeah, absolutely. He really acts pretty menacing, I would say.

TRACIE: Yeah.

DAVID: Just standing creepily at the end of the hall and then getting really up in her face. It rubbed me the wrong way. It is a little comforting to know that's not how he normally acts.

ALYSSA: Which again, like, props to the actor for making us feel unsettled.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we continue our discussion, we’re going to hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, David, Tracie, and I will continue our discussion of “Kaer Morhen”.

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody! Things are getting busy at the Witcher set and the start of the Season 3 filming comes closer and closer. Here is what's new in the world of The Witcher on Netflix.

The first camera and screen tests were carried out at Longcross Studios near London to prepare for the filming of Season 3. Mecia Simson (who plays the elven mage Francesca) and Anna Shaffer (who plays Triss Merigold) posted on social media that they have already come to the Witcher set. Moreover actor Kaine Zajaz (who was Gage in Season 3, Francesca's brother) posted on Instagram that he also was at Longcross Studios already doing stunt training and costume fitting. In addition, director Loni Peristere confirmed on Instagram that he was indeed working on The Witcher Season 3. He wrote that he is going to start his work on the show in May and during the summer. For this, he posted a picture of the book "Time of Contempt" which is being adapted in Season 3. At the same time, show runner Lauren Hissrich posted a picture of a map for the studio the filming is going to take place in. All in all the start of filming can't be too far off. According to Redanian Intelligence the planned wrap date for Season 3 is in September 2022 at the moment. But as we have learned in the past, this could, of course, change depending on the circumstances.

In other news, Redanian Intelligence revealed several auditions for new characters in Season 3. They note that for smaller roles the Witcher casting team sometime use auditions that are taken straight from the actual script, instead of writing something new for the auditions. For example, this was the case all the way back in Season 1 for the audition for Nohorn. This means that we can maybe take some hints at Season 3's plot from Redanian Intelligence's audition transcripts. The first audition was for Aplegatt, the royal messenger of King Demawend of Aedirn. It tells us that there will be many beheadings in the Northern Kingdoms. But we don't know who those people that get executed are. Moreover we learn that (similar to the books) Aplegatt will meet a certain sorceress with raven black hair while he travels through the lands. The second audition that Redanian Intelligence reports on is about a character that was created for the show. This character is a drunk prisoner that is talking to another character that was surrounded by none other than the Nilfgaardian emperor Emhyr var Emreis in the past.

Moreover due to another report by Redanian Intelligence we have learned that Season 3 will feature an important event from the Witcher short story collection "The Sword of Destiny" that was missing in Season 1. It is the Belleteyn festival that is taking place in a flashback during the short story "Something More". In the books, it was the last time that Geralt and Yennefer saw each other before the Battle of Sodden Hill. The Belleteyn festival is based on the real-world Gaelic May Day festival. Just like in the Witcher books, it is held on the first of May. People light up bonfires and dance around them. Their flames and smoke are supposed to have special powers. In the Witcher books, Yennefer and Ciri both share their birthdays on the day of Belleteyn as well. According to Redanian Intelligence, this festival will happen early in Season 3 and will take up some screen time. Belleteyn will be attended by Geralt, Yennefer and Ciri which will give them some time to bond after all the things that have happened in Season 2.

Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

“Dear Friend…”: Listener Call-In Segment

[Music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hi everyone! Welcome to our listener call-in segment, “Dear Friend…”. Keep on listening as members of our international hanza share their thoughts on what we’re discussing in this episode:

CHRISTIAAN: Transcript to come.

GARY: Transcript to come.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Thanks to Christiaan and Gary for sending in their thoughts on Episode 202 “Kaer Morhen”! Share your thoughts on The Witcher Season 2 with our community by recording a 20-second clip with your name, country, and a comment about each episode for a future “Dear Friend…” segment. Email your clips to greetings@breakfastinbeauclair.com or DM the podcast on social for more information.

[Music by MojoFilter Media]

Discussion

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Geralt had brought Ciri to Kaer Morhen, the witcher’s keep, while Yennefer and Fringilla met Francesca, the leader of the elves.

In the next scene, Francesca laments the decline of Elven civilization around the campfire as Yennefer and Fringilla scheme their escape. We’re like in this dark, dank, rat ridden castle. And then we go to Yennefer and Fringilla, just sitting down on their luck in this lush forest. And we get to hear like a little bit of Filavandrel singing, the lore of the Elves and their place in society and what these songs that we had heard about from Francesca earlier really mean to them, you know, Yennefer and Fringilla now having been left alone, they have a little bit of space to think and to actually plan about what they're going to do about their situation.

TRACIE: This episode has a lot of dialogue that you can, like, pick up things and learn things about the world. Like, there's a lot of building of the world that you don't even notice, but it's happening between the dialogue of the characters. You know, we're talking about Filavandrel who used to be, like, considered the king of the Elves and led this rebellion against Calanthe. And it was all these things like, oh, wow, we're learning more about this world and what has happened that might not have necessarily been on the screen. I thought that was cool and learning about Francesca and her leading the elves through the forest trying to find this hidden valley or Dol Blathanna, as they call it. There's so much that she can learn just from these little bits of dialogue between all the characters in the scene.

DAVID: It's very clear that Filavandrel and Francesca sort of see themselves as the protectors of the Elves and really want to rebuild their civilization there on the continent. When we're hearing Filavandrel singing, I didn't really catch this my first time watching but second time, I turned on subtitles. He's singing about the blood of humans flowing into the river. And it's another instance of this elven pride. They really hate the humans. And to be fair, the humans have done a lot of atrocious things to them. There's no way for either side to come out, in a sense, and really safe in the end.

ALYSSA: And I think as we've talked about, you know, just this desire to rebuild, it's impossible to do that within the situation that they're in. Like, currently, the elves that we see are nomadic, they just can't settle down anywhere. They're starving, as you see in the scene with Gage, Francesca's brother, they're desperate for food, they have nowhere to go and they're searching and possibly in vain for answers that will help them, you know, rebuild the bright elven future. So they need that sort of stability almost in a way that you know, Ciri has that now and she can thrive and she can explore. But in order to move elven civilization forward, they really need that foundation and they just don't have that right now. The big thing that we really learn that will drive the rest of the episode for Yennefer, Fringilla, and Francesca is that we discover that both Fringilla and Francesca have similar dreams of a robed figure. The one that we saw in Yennefer's dream at the beginning of the episode. However, Fringilla sees a robed figure in black and Francesca sees a robed figure in white. This is what they want to use in order to change their circumstances. Let's get a hold of Francesca. We'll tell her about our dreams. Francesca's using her dream as a means of keeping power. What happens if they find out that it's not just her, it's us as well. It's the humans as well. Yeah, so that's what they kind of use as leverage to try to get Filavandrel on their side a little bit. And to get him to doubt Francesca even a little bit.

TRACIE: Something Fringilla says in the scene too, about shared dreams being a powerful omen. I really like that. And I love the use of dreams as a plot thing for any story. I've always loved that even, like, again, referencing like when I play D&D and stuff whenever a D&D character has, like, a dream, or we roleplay out, like, something that they have in their dreams. I always love that, because dreams can be interpreted in so many different ways. And it's such an interesting thing. You give a vision to somebody via a dream, and then they try to interpret what that means. And we see more of that in this episode, but I just love the idea that these three mages all are having similar dreams.

ALYSSA: It's a scary thing to love to hate I think as we'll find out. I too really love the concept of shared dreams.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: It's kind of one of those things where, as we dive deeper into the episode, it's like, Ah, this is a terrible idea.

TRACIE: Yeah.

DAVID: One of the elves says there hasn't been a pure blooded elf born in decades. And Yennefer is part elf. She's tried to use this to get a little more on their side, but that's clearly backfired. There's really a lot of negative feelings towards people of the mixed race there. I mean, clearly indicative of the world that we live in as well. I mean, we'll see later in the season, that this beacon of pureness is not gonna bring them what they want.

TRACIE: Yeah, getting a little into, like, Witcher lore stuff here, especially about the elves, which I love. The fact, that there aren't many pure blood elves, and we learn Francesca is a pure blood elf. And she's trying to have a child. Getting a little ahead of myself in the episode here, but one thing that's interesting about the elves is that they can't have children as they get older. Apparently, in the books, at least a lot of younger elves are the ones who can have children, but as they get older, it's a lot harder for them to have children. That's something that they have struggled with in their current plight. And it's something we learn more about as we go on.

ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. Like, I think we learn this in Blood of Elves specifically. And I think it's during the caravan scene, because I think Yarpen gets super, super crude about the whole thing. Basically, as Tracie said, it's like elves have such a long lifespan, but they can only reproduce for such a short portion of it. However, when they're young, and able to reproduce, that's also the time in which they're willing to fight. They have ideals of a better future, and they have a tendency to die in battle, so there's a number of reasons both biological and, you know, cultural and political, for why they're unable to reproduce in the books, at least. You know, that kind of tracks here. It brings about more of that desperation, is that you're unable to provide a foundation for your people, and also, they're being watered down through the generations is probably why Francesca is so resentful of Yennefer in this moment, especially. In the next scene, Geralt and Ciri examine the leshy arm and Ciri asks to be trained by the Witchers. Geralt discovers Eskel has brought prostitutes to the keep. So, this is again, like, a little bit of character building, I think, for everybody, or at least setting the stakes. You know, Ciri is like, hey, Geralt, I want to train. Everything sucks. Let me be powerful in my own right. And Geralt is like lol, no. For the moment, it's because Ciri still harbors a lot of resentment. And Geralt doesn't want to train her and let her act upon that anger and just want her to kill in anger, which again, tracks quite closely from the books. They're having this conversation about Ciri's  future while Geralt is examining the leshy hand that Eskel brought back and there's this nasty shot of, like, he opens it and there's all these little creepy crawlies digging around in there, but they're having this moment as father-daughter, which is important. She's seeing his work. He's learning about her ambitions and her desires.

DAVID: Yeah, there's a little bit of foreshadowing when he's cracking open that leshy eye. He's reaching and extracting ingredients for his Witcher elixirs. And when he pulls his hand out, there's this black chalky substance on his hand, which is just a little bit of a hint of kind of, like, the main theme of a later episode in the season.

TRACIE: Yep, I like the foreshadowing. The things again that I don't really notice until like, oh, okay, that's something that plays in later, which is interesting. This particular scene has a really great teaching moment from Geralt to Ciri that is one of my personal favorites. And like you said Alyssa, it's something that I think was in the books that was a teaching moment and it's also portrayed here in this scene of the show. Ciri's talking about all the things that they're going to be doing in Kaer Morhen and what's the plan here Geralt, what would we be doing? And she does bring up fighting, that she wants to fight and train. And she talks about this black rider that she has previously had nightmares about and was brought up in the previous episode. And she's haunted by this black rider and she really wants to kill him. This is where Geralt has this moment where we don't kill out of fear, we kill to save lives. And I just, I love this entire scene. And I love that moment. First of all, Dad-Geralt moments are always great, but it's just great to see that as a teaching moment for him to Ciri. It's very powerful.

DAVID: Absolutely. And this kind of gets me wondering a little bit why Ciri hasn't had fighting training in the past considering that Calanthe was her guardian for most of her youth. And Calanthe is known to be a very warmongering person.

TRACIE: Yeah.

DAVID: Very effective in battle.

TRACIE: That's actually a good point. You would think Calanthe, like, maybe, maybe I don't know what Calanthe's thoughts were, because she's, like, an awesome fighter. And you would think that she'd want to train her granddaughter also, maybe she just didn't get to it. Like, maybe eventually it was like, I'm gonna train Ciri one day, but obviously they weren't able to get to that, but that's a good point. I never thought of that.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I wonder if it's more of, like, the circumstance of prosperity in Cintra at the time that, like, Ciri was alive versus when Calanthe was a child.

TRACIE: Also true.

ALYSSA: And they did mention this in season one as well. I think Renfri actually mentioned it in passing. Calanthe won her first battle when she was, like, very, very young.

TRACIE: Oh yeah.

ALYSSA: I wonder if there's any, like, political discourse that happened around that that caused Calanthe to take that position early. Whereas, you know, with Calanthe as the figurehead of Cintra, even with her parents gone, there's still a lot of prosperity in Cintra, so maybe they just didn't really need it as much for Ciri.

TRACIE: Right. That could also make sense.

DAVID: I think another explanation can be that Calanthe was frightened of Ciri. Like, she saw what Pavetta could do at Pavetta's betrothal. And she knew that Ciri could very well be like that, and what kind of unstoppable force could be released in a moment of adrenaline.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, either way, I think as we move forward throughout the series, we'll see her become more powerful, I'm sure more deadly, just nudging her to the start of her Witcher training is super exciting.

TRACIE: Yeah. But I do like that Geralt is hesitant at first to train her, you know. It seems like at this point, he's not interested in wanting to train her. He has that hesitancy at first. And I think that's a cool moment for learning about Geralt and that he cares about Ciri in his own way. And I do really like that.

DAVID: It's really nice to see Geralt, a Witcher with scruples, as he's often described in the books. He wants Ciri to learn how to defend herself but not to take vengeance.

ALYSSA: Yep. After being caught watching the party downstairs, Ciri wanders the armory and Vesemir tells her about the history of the Witchers. Meanwhile, the extent of Eskel's wounds is revealed. We had seen in the previous scene that Eskel brought some ladies to party, and it went well with everybody except for Geralt, who then chastises anyone he can get his hands on, namely Vesemir for letting this happen, as well as Eskel for bringing them there in the first place, which causes a small brawl between the two of them. But yeah, it felt a little off color to me, but it's there, so...

TRACIE: It's an interesting scene. That's the only thing I had to say about it. The one interesting thing we do get about the whole party scene is more dad Geralt moments. One of the prostitutes, you know, is like, Oh, I hear you have a daughter now. And it's just like, Oh, she could work for me and Geralt is like back off.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

TRACIE: Yeah, he immediately went into that dad mode. And I liked that. I always appreciate Dad-Geralt moments.

DAVID: It's interesting to see that this is Eskel's way of coping with this horrible thing that he's contracted. He's trying to drown his pain. Probably not the best way to go about it.

TRACIE: Yeah. And even Geralt tries to tell him that, but he just doesn't want to listen.

ALYSSA: No. Eskel takes a big ol' swing at Geralt, which feels super out of character. I do wonder for Eskel because he says later in the episode, like, I knew something was wrong. Like, I wonder if it was, like, he's trying to get his mind off of it. Or if he's got a little bucket list before like he kicks it. Either way, this feels like a terrible decision to bring all of these people into your secret keep.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: But in the meantime, toward the end of that scene in the hall, Vesemir looks up and sees Ciri watching this debauchery. Like, it's utter chaos. Tits are flying and Ciri gets caught watching this whole thing. And so she wanders down to the armory and is, you know, minding her own business. And Vesemir comes up to her and he begins to kind of walk her through all the artifacts that they still have. So, he mentions a story that, we might be likely to get this in Blood Origin. Vesemir tells Ciri about, like, one of the first witchers named Cliff, who was killed by an ancient demon with a dagger. And that demon was later bound by witchers in the forest and some say she still calls to the unfortunate souls who crossed her forest and lures them into devour them. And suddenly it's like, oh, we might have context for what the heck is happening to Fringilla, Francesca, and Yennefer. All of a sudden, all of this becomes scary. Vesemir shows Ciri Deglan's armor and Deglan was his father figure in Nightmare of the Wolf as well, which is again, another nice little easter egg for fans.

TRACIE: Yeah, I like the little Witcher museum here. We get the little, like, going through all the different artifacts that the witchers have. And it's good for Ciri too, you know, she gets to learn about the history of the Witchers. It gives us some insight on things that we may learn or we could pick up from, like, Nightmare of the Wolf. But yeah, I like this little scene between Ciri and Vesemir.

DAVID: Yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of foreshadowing here. The dagger is going to be a very important item later on. All the talk about this demon, it's unsettling, you know, we're learning a little bit more. We don't know exactly that this is what Fringilla, Francesca and Yennefer are dealing with right now, but knowing that now, it makes it a lot more chilling.

ALYSSA: Yeah, when you're watching this for the first time, the resemblance is just very uncanny, where you're just kind of like a weird thing in the woods, that witcher is bound and chained for eternity. And then you get to the next scene, and it's like, oh, that's the weird little thing in the woods that doesn't look like anyone's supposed to touch it.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: It's nice, because it gives you enough lore within the confinements of this episode alone. And I think that having an entire book series to build upon the back of when you're building new lore into this, it's kind of nice to have it pretty self contained, so that both new viewers and old fans can actually digest it and appreciate it within the context of the rest of the world, so I kind of liked that.

DAVID: I do like that they're adding new things. That might be a controversial opinion.

TRACIE: Controversial take, yeah.

DAVID: I just like that the show is taking some risks like that. Like, they want to make it their own thing. And I think that they're doing a good job with it.

ALYSSA: Yeah, we could probably talk about this more at the end as well, I think that there are times where the ability to write something new and, and fit it in seamlessly into the world is really successful. And I think that there are times where it's less so, but I do have a lot of interest in the fact that the writers are able to do that.

TRACIE: Of course. And that's, I too, like, and you had said this in the previous scene we were discussing, Alyssa, with the mages. Like, you would think I know everything that's gonna happen, but we don't. And it's like, I don't know what's happening, but I'm interested so let's keep watching. And even as a book reader, it's cool to be surprised by some of the things that they come up with.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Which I think is part of the reason why I'm interested in seeing what happens with Blood Origin especially. For the last two little pieces that happen here, Vesemir tries to ask Ciri about her past. He's not very good at being subtle about this. He's like, is that how you got out of Cintra? And she's like, what?

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And she doesn't tell him anything, ultimately. So we kind of see that Vesemir is also trying to get to the bottom of this girl. That's something that we'll be exploring throughout the rest of the season two. Cut to a Eskel down in the laboratory. Why? I don't know. There are beds. Do better. Do better, sir. This is your last time getting laid, make it better. So, Eskel brings this woman down to the laboratory. And she has this one line that, like, I just can't un-experience. And she's just like.

TRACIE: Yes, I know which one you're talking about.

ALYSSA: Like, to paraphrase it was basically something along the lines of like, “you met that wooden beast in the woods. I can't wait to meet yours”.

DAVID: Argh!

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And it's like, I was like, no. I was like oh no.

TRACIE: I know. I was like, Oh, wow.

ALYSSA: I'm not mad about the writing. I'm mad that I've had to experience it.

TRACIE: I know. I know. Yeah.

ALYSSA: People say crazy things in the heat of the moment.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: So, it's just one of those things that just obviously stood out especially with the subtitles on.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And so, again, we, we leave the experience of, of that and return back to the Deathless Mother. I don't know if you guys wanted to talk about that with Eskel, but if there's, is there anything to say about that?

TRACIE: Nothing of value to add.

ALYSSA: Other than shared trauma. Cool, okay.

TRACIE: Yeah.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we get to the rest of the episode, we’re going to take a break here. Next episode, join me, David from WhibbsGames, and Tracie, Miss Magitek, as we continue our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 202, “Kaer Morhen.”

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Father of Bean, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Roxas, and Jeanette of Brokilon.

Special thanks to Tracie and David for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: John Matthew M. Sarong

 

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