Ep. 41 — Chapter 5 from "Blood of Elves" (Part 2)

Josh from The Pod Called Quest and Erick Schwartz from the US join Alyssa for Part 2 of our discussion of Andrzej Sapkowski’s first Witcher novel Blood of Elves, Chapter 5. Very important bits include: How Oxenfurt is really just a fantasy Ivy League, one of the most delightful character descriptions from the series, methods of manipulation, Drunk Witcher, age is just a frustrating plot point, and—relatedly—rubbing Vaseline on our eyes and screaming into the void.

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

JOSH: I guess, I mean, espionage is like, is less James Bond and it is just like information gathering. You're basically a giant information clerk. You're just keeping it all together and utilizing it to the best of your ability for whoever your liege is, you know? So, you're just gathering information, essentially.

ALYSSA: The line from Mean Girls came out when you said that. You're just like, “big information clerk”, my idiotic millennial brain was just like, "his hair is full of secrets".

JOSH: Yes, perfect. Perfect.

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Introduction

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.

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[Episode Details]

As for this episode, Josh from The Pod Called Quest and Erick Schwartz from the US call in for Part 2 of our discussion of Blood of Elves, Chapter 5. Join us as we discuss how Oxenfurt is really just a fantasy Ivy League, one of the most delightful character descriptions from the series, methods of manipulation, Drunk Witcher, age is just a frustrating plot point, and—relatedly—rubbing Vaseline on our eyes and screaming into the void.

In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares junket insights and casting news news about Netflix’s “Nightmare of the Wolf” and “The Witcher: Blood Origin”. “Nightmare of the Wolf” premieres on Netflix this Monday, August 23rd, 2021.

Without further ado, let’s begin our discussion of Blood of Elves, Chapter 5.

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Hey everyone. Welcome back from the break, when we left off, we spent the first half of the chapter with Geralt as he escorted a barge with the Malatius and Grock Company and was accosted by some Temerian guards looking for Ciri. In part two, two spies follow Dandelion through the town of Oxenfurt. He attempts to lose them at the academy, running into a familiar student, Shani, while on the grounds. The spies bring him to Dijkstra, The Head of Redanian Secret Service and Philippa Eilhart, a Sorceress Advisor in Redania's Court and an important figure in the Council of Wizards who question him about Ciri. Inadvertently, the poet leads Philippa to the witcher’s hideout in Oxenfurt. We start off this chapter with a beautiful description of Oxenfurt through Dandelion's eyes. It's such a delightful, lively place. I feel like when we actually hear about it in the books, and of course, we see it in The Witcher 3, but there's so much life to it from all of the vendors that are on the street, to the beauty of the academy, and the people who inhabit it. What did you guys think about Oxenfurt?

JOSH: It's a fantasy college town. Like, it was so wonderful how it's described here. I, I wish it was more like this in the games. The, the games Oxenfurt is kind of, it's almost this like vestigial-like area in the game. It's not really that important, but like, I really wish it was kind of more like this because this sounds like the place to be, you know what I mean? It sounds fun, whether or not you're, you know, one of the scholars or one of the students or someone who lives there as a trader. It sounds delightful. Like, this is where you want to go to, you know?

ERICK: Yeah.

JOSH: Because this is like, this is like vacationing in like a big cool college town.

ALYSSA: Yeah,

ERICK: It definitely brought me back to my college days at the University of Cincinnati. Right next to it is this main street that's always hustling and bustling with different dive bars, with different, like, local restaurants and constant energy and activity and I really overlaid that energy with, with Oxenfurt. And in my head, I, I pictured Oxenfurt with that, you know, college city energy, but I pictured, like, very Ivy League.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ERICK: Like Harvard, Oxford. Um…uh…other ones.

ALYSSA: Yale, Dartmouth, Princeton. Yeah.

ERICK: Princeton! There! That's the one, I don't know why I didn’t —

ALYSSA: Yeah, which is funny that you mentioned that because, like, I'm obviously in New York now. And like, there's something about Oxenfurt that really speaks to the vibe of being in a large city. At the same time, because I lived close enough, I grew up in high school always visiting Princeton. We would like, drive through, like all these back roads go through like, these beautiful lush, like, tree-lined roads over the river that's, like, close to Princeton. And, you know, just be dropped into the town. It was the same thing that you had mentioned, Erick. Like, there's this one, kind of like, main street, High Street that has all of these little mom and pop shops, diners. But you know, you get all of that hustle and bustle throughout all of the streets of the city and you cross the street and step onto the campus and their campus was open. We, as high schoolers, spent a lot of time just hanging around on the Princeton campus. But as soon as you stepped onto the grounds, it felt very, you know, hallowed. So, I get the same vibe as Dandelion treats us to this beautiful description of the town.

JOSH: Yeah, and like, he even talks about like, when he does step into the actual campus, like, the city itself is very much like a Classic Medieval City and everything's kind of built on top of itself. Everything's very closed in. There's lots of people who want to live here but you step onto the campus and all of a sudden, it's wide open spaces, big fairways. Totally different. And it's, it's an interesting kind of world building thing here that is mentioned how this is basically, like, this was an elven city previously. As with so many things that the humans have overtaken, like Oxenfurt proper, especially the Academy, has all this elven architecture, which we don't get a ton of detail of the differences really. We can kind of fill in, I think it's left open to fill in in kind of ourselves. But we do get this idea that once again, even this, like, kind of very noble thing, this place of academia and learning is kind of built on the bones of another people that were kind of ousted from their land. So, it's just a really interesting thing of like, all this beauty built on bones, you know, kind of interesting thing that it kind of ties into I think, was it the previous chapter where…I’m trying to remember when Ciri and Geralt run into the Elven ruins in the forest.

ALYSSA: That is the previous chapter, that's chapter four when they're at Shaerrawedd. Yeah.

JOSH: Right. Yes. So, it does kind of make sense and it ties into that as well. I think once again, it's continuing to lay that down to give the Scoia'tael, like, their proper motivation and stuff. But yeah, I, I love the distinction that's given there.

ALYSSA: Mhmm. And as Dandelion is, like, giving us this beautiful exposition and this illustrated immersive description of Oxenfurt, he is being tailed by two very rat-like spies. And he continually tells us how gross they are. He goes past like a music store. They're like looking at ocarinas. He goes past a barber and they're like peering at the barber’s menu. And then he eventually, like, sneaks his way onto the grounds and they're still chasing him. But he goes around looking for a familiar face, and he eventually finds a medical student who he knows of named Shani. And Shani tells us that, and tells Dandelion, that she hasn't seen him in years. And we find out how old she is. I wonder, like, how long they've known each other, and in what context. But he tells her to deliver a message to Geralt for him, because he can't do so with these two spies on his tail and so she leaves. Dandelion is eventually cornered by these two spies who just kind of gruffly tell him, like, greetings from Dijkstra. He's like, "Okay, got it. See you later". And they don't move. And he's like, "shit, you need me to follow you, don't you?" And inevitably, at the next scene, we see Dandelion with Dijkstra, and a number of other people as well. Do you guys want to move on from Oxenfurt and go to meeting Dijkstra and Philippa? Or was there anything else that you wanted to say about Oxenfurt? Or Shani? Or—

JOSH: Yeah, I mean, I do find it interesting. I mean, obviously Shani comes back around way later in things, but Dandelion is supposed to be like, probably in his 30s, right? Dijkstra says later on, he's maybe going on 40 at this point. We don't really necessarily know his exact age.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

JOSH: But if Shani is 17, it's very dubious to be like, yeah, okay, okay—

ALYSSA: We've known each other for years.

JOSH: —yeah. Julian, Julian buddy. You got to, you got to figure that—. You shouldn't be hanging out with like, what 12 year olds? When you were maybe, maybe 25 or 30 or something? It's very interesting. There's some weirdness with like, you know, men and underage girls throughout this chapter.

ALYSSA: Right?

JOSH: What's going on? Like, what context is this? So, I guess there's probably some moments there. But it is interesting that this continues to come up within this chapter of like, older men knowing younger women. It's like, okay, very interesting.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And I feel like Dandelion does say that, like, he often comes back to the university as a lecturer.

JOSH: Oh, that’s true.

ALYSSA: So, he's tugged back to Oxenfurt. So like, maybe they would have, like, crossed paths. But they're not even in the same department.

JOSH: Yeah.

ALYSSA: He is there as a poet and she is there as a medical student. Whatever. Where it's, it's —

JOSH: She's taking it as an elective. It's a, she's just it as taking an elective.

ERICK: If we're going to call Oxenfurt, like, a college town. That's implying that a 14 year old is in college already.

ALYSSA: I mean, well, we later discover that she's in her third year of school. So, I mean, maybe it's there…yeah. I mean, maybe it's like instead of going to high school, or they're at the university—

ERICK: Yeah, yeah.

JOSH: You know, we have one of our other main characters being a little shady. Let's give Dandelion the benefit of the doubt for this chapter.

ALYSSA: I think it's, yeah. I think you just need to, like, rub vaseline on your eyes and keep going with the chapter.

ERICK: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And just kind of, like, push past the plot point and just okay. Because again, like the way that Sapkowski seems to write, he's writing the characters for the plot rather than the plot for the character sometimes.

ERICK: Sure.

ALYSSA: So, you know, Shani serves her purpose as a medical student, as we'll see in this chapter and the next chapter as well. But yeah, so vaseline, we're gonna keep going. So, you know, when Dandelion is inevitably brought to Dijkstra, he has apparently been loosely in the service of the Redanian Secret Service. And it almost seems like Dijkstra is trying to leash a cat. Dandelion is not, he does whatever the heck he wants and Dijkstra gives him orders, but it's very open-ended as to whether or not Dandelion will actually come back and provide any real benefit. Unless he's decidedly threatened. But just the opening of this section, when we actually meet Dijkstra, it is such an illustrative, like, description of who this man is, and I will read this out loud because, good lord it is, it is pure poetry. “Dijkstra, hHead of King Vizimir of Redania’s Secret Service, did not resemble a spy. He was far from the stereotype which dictated that a spy should be short, thin, rat-like, and have piercing eyes forever casting curative glances from beneath the black hood. Dijkstra as Dandelion knew never wore hoods and had a decided preference for bright-colored clothing. He was almost seven foot tall and probably only weighed a little under two quintals. When he crossed his arms over his chest, which he did with habitual pleasure, it looked as if two cachalots had prostrated themselves over a whale. As far as his features, hair color, and complexion were concerned, he looked like a freshly scrubbed pig. Dandelion knew very few people whose appearance was as deceptive as Dijkstra's, because this porky giant who gave the impression of being a sleepy, sluggish moron, possessed an exceptionally keen mind and considerable authority. A popular saying at King Vizimir's court held that if Dijkstra states it is noon, yet darkness reigns all around, it is time to start worrying about the fate of the sun”.

JOSH: So good. 

ERICK: I love that.

ALYSSA: Sapkowski revisits this description by saying later on the chapter like, "Oh Dijkstra crossing the cachalots over the whale again.” Like, it's so silly and as I said, illustrative for readers. But yeah, I find obviously the contrast really compelling. The fact that you have a person who goes against the grain entirely of what a spy is, in most science-fiction and fantasy, and decidedly, like, puts his mark and says like, "No, he's going to be the exact opposite of what everyone expects".

ERICK: Monster of a man.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ERICK: The thing is, is like though he might be part of the Secret Service, he's not doing the dirty work.

JOSH: Yeah.

ERICK: He's the brains of it. Though, like, yeah, he could be considered quote unquote a spy, I think the reason he got into this position and is able to comfortably be what he wants to be is because he just tells people what to do. He's the brains of it. He, he doesn't have to worry about sneaking about like a, a monster of a man, which how much is two quintals? I think you wrote it.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I put it here. I looked up quintals because I'm curious all the time about what these units of measurement are. And apparently quintal, just means 100 base units. So, it could be anything from pounds to kilos. You know, assuming this is a European book. It's probably kilos, which means that by Dandelion's estimation, Dijkstra is just under 200 kilos or 440 pounds and he is almost seven foot tall. He's a massive, massive man.

JOSH: That's a big guy.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ERICK: He's scary. He's Terry Crews scary. I don't know maybe he's, he, I think he's probably a bit more portly, rather than, than ripped.

JOSH: Yeah.

ERICK: Based on this, this description and based on, like, a lot of art that we've already seen from like, especially Gwent Witcher and stuff like that.

JOSH: I'm actually really curious how they're going to do him in the show because Graham McTavish is wonderful and I'm so excited, but I, I'm curious what they're gonna do, because Graham's, he's a pretty buff guy. So, I'm curious how they're gonna set that up. But yeah, it, it is super interesting. I, I almost feel like this stereotype of the spy could almost be, and maybe this is me reading into too much, but it is almost seems like a bit of propaganda. Like, it's almost a, a way that they've maybe through Dijkstra's own kind of workings have basically thrown the scent off of someone like him, you know? So, it's almost something that could be something manufactured. This is one of those moments of like, very obvious, like, you know, kind of turning the tables on fantasy tropes, that I think really works really well. And he's like such an interesting character throughout the rest of this and in the games. And this introduction, it was really fun to see like two pretty important characters are going to get introduced here. Going back through it just recently was a, a reminder of how specific Sapkowski gets here. Because he's not always super-detailed about people's appearances. He'll give like a short thing, like, you know, Shani's described with a couple different features, but he really wants you to get what Dijkstra looks like and how you're supposed to feel about this guy.

ERICK: Scared.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: Peter Kenny's, like, voiceover he does here is really interesting.

ERICK: Oh, I love it.

JOSH: It's good, but I don't know if it kind of matches. It sounds like he's pulling up almost like a Baron Harkonnen kind of feel. He's almost going too gross with it.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: Like, he sounds a little more like —

ALYSSA: He's a little more snively. I think —

JOSH: Yeah.

ALYSSA: —than I was expecting someone of this stature and of this like, attitude and authority to actually be.

ERICK: So, I might be just the Peter Kenny apologist, but I have to say I think it fit him in my brain perfectly, because he's so massive. I'm picturing Dijkstra's, like, neck just being the size of a, like an oak. And that probably really chokes up his pronunciation or however Peter Kenny —

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ERICK: —does it.

ALYSSA: That's an interesting way of thinking about it.

ERICK: It almost sounds for lack of better words, sloppy. Like, it, it sounds like he's just like, gross. Like, his mouth is almost full. That's just my take from it again, but I'm a hardcore Peter Kenny apologist, so.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: Well, I think he's mostly spot on. I'm right there with you. But to go with Alyssa, I think like you said, little snivelier —

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: —than I would kind of see him. There's a vague kind of interaction with him and Philippa, like, throughout things. I mean, she's kind of using him in many different ways. So, like, if she's this badass owl sorceress, I don't see him as, like, gross, personally. I don't see him as, like, a Baron Harkonnen type. I, I feel like he has this presence about him.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: We'll see how it's done in the show. We'll see if we have another iteration of it. But yeah.

ALYSSA: I certainly feel like he should feel formidable down to the voice acting. When I first read Dijkstra, and like, this is probably colored by The Witcher 3 in which, you know, there's a different voice actor for that. But I still kind of imagine someone who sounds terrifying, not in, like, an evil sort of way. But just like, there's a gravity to everything that he says.

JOSH: Yeah, he's in control.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And I think that's what I missed, I think when I was listening to the audio books this morning. When I've imagined it, it's always some sort of like, contempt and gravity. We get the infamous line here about Dandelion actually comes from Dijkstra. He says, "I know you're almost 40. Look almost 30, think you're just over 20 and act as though you're barely 10". This is something that, you know, everybody knows this line, and it actually comes from here. Once we kind of get past those, like, introductions, we get to the meat of why Dijkstra wants to talk to Dandelion. Dijkstra says this in so many words, and with so much, like, scathing, scathing attitude, but Dandelion was meant to keep Dijkstra informed of what Geralt's intentions were. We actually find out at this point that Geralt's job for the Malatius and Grock Company was actually meant to draw Rience's attention. We learn from this conversation that after a couple of other events, Geralt's had gone out looking for Rience and he only found, like, trails of corpses. So, he changed his tactics. Planted himself within Malatius and Grock, knew that the company would advertise the fact that they had a witcher escort, which they did. So, that eventually got back to Rience. That's how Rience laid that trap for Geralt and Geralt laid the trap for him as well. And Dijkstra is very mad that Dandelion did not squeal to him so that the Redanian forces could be involved. Dijkstra also demands that Dandelion bring Geralt to him. Dijkstra wants to ask Geralt like, a bunch of questions which he does not reveal to Dandelion, but he's just like, "The four kingdoms have been asking themselves a bunch of questions that the Witcher can answer for us, so bring him to me bwahaha". But Dijkstra does reveal that the Temerian Secret Service is also looking for Rience. So, suddenly, there's like all of this interest in what is going on between this mysterious sorcerer or this mysterious incompetent sorcerer. As we go throughout the books and The Witcher, it's drawing a lot of unwanted attention. As Dijkstra is trying to beat around the bush with Dandelion and just get Geralt to him, Philippa cuts in, there are two other people in the room other than Dandelion and Dijkstra. That is Ori Reuven, who is Dijkstra's secretary, as well as Philippa Eilhart, who is a prominent mage in the Council of Wizards, as well as King Vizimir's advisor in Tretogor. Philippa starts peppering Dandelion with all of these questions that as the text notes were clearly asked too soon and to the wrong person. But the issue is that Philippa is neither reckless nor careless. So, she's asking him all these questions. She asks, "Where's the child seen with Geralt in Kaedwen? The girl with the ashen hair and green eyes. The one Rience asked you about in Temeria when he caught and tortured her? What do you know about the girl? Where has the Witcher hidden her? Where did Yennefer go when she received Geralt's letter? Where is Triss Merigold hiding and why is she hiding?". It is a lot and Dandelion takes a second to respond. And the rest of this small interaction is just continual lying between Dandelion, Philippa, and Dijkstra. It is very intense throughout the rest of the section.

ERICK: I absolutely love and I think it's, it might be the deadpan delivery of these jokes. After every single line it finishes with, he lied, he lied, he lied. Like, it's very tongue-in-cheek and it's this dramatic irony fused with this deadpan humor that I absolutely love about the writing itself. I don't find, like, the lines that they were saying was funny, but it's almost like, Sapkowski himself is not only giving you a wink and a nudge, but he's just smacking you in the face with it. And I, I think like that kind of style was, was very funny amongst all of this, but I just wanted to say that I'm glad that you brought up the whole thing was just them lying to one another because in a lot of satirized espionage fictions, like, it's all about lying to one another. That's all espionage can be boiled down to, that's why it's like a common joke in espionage satire is, "Oh, I'm not just a double-agent, I'm a triple-agent. Now I'm a quadruple agent. I'm just lying to everybody". So it's, I think Sapkowski is highlighting that amongst this group of people. But what I did want to ask about, you know, Philippa, in the book, it says that she's not careless. So, she obviously asked all the wrong questions to the wrong person at the wrong time. She did this intentionally. Do you think she overstepped as kind of like a power move over Dijkstra? Like, what's her reason to have knowingly done the quote unquote wrong thing to the wrong person?

ALYSSA: We know Philippa is very calculated and as I mentioned, in the introduction to this section, as well, Dandelion inadvertently leads Philippa to Geralt. And I think she said that to give him a sense of urgency so that he would be more inclined to go visit Geralt immediately. I think the other thing is a little bit of what you said, a small power play over Dijkstra. In that, we'll find out later that Philippa has her own motives outside of her role as the advisor to King Vizimir of Redania. So, I think part of that is also to undermine Dijkstra a little bit. She knows her, her goals are. She knows her responsibility to Vizimir but also to the Council of Mages. And she is certainly playing with her own authority and independence.

JOSH: If she wants to kind of gain the upper hand in the conversation, how do you throw off the ultimate spy master who has all the cards? He's holding the entire deck. Do something that he would never do, basically. Throw the entire conversation off and just step in front of him, and he's gonna be a bit on his heels, you know, a man who's never on his heels.

ERICK: Yeah.

JOSH: I also love how this whole thing establishes how insightful Dijkstra is. We are getting at the fact that like, you're just never gonna pull the wool over his eyes, and it plays into how do you gain power in a conversation with him. Do something he thinks is stupid, because he's going to concentrate on it. And then she can go ahead and run the conversation, because she's not going to be able to steer the conversation from this guy who probably when he's in a room demands all the presence from everywhere. Like, people are just going to listen to what Dijkstra has to say, because he's gigantic. He has all the information. He's got a massive sense-motive, you know, he's insanely good. I guess for D&D players, his insight is really high.

ERICK:  Yeah.

JOSH: It's the one way to maybe gain the upper hand in a conversation with him, is to make him be like, "Why did you just say that?" Because he's going to be concentrated on, that was a bad move. And then she can just take the conversation from there.

ERICK: And to roll with it, the text says, "She asked all of the wrong questions to the wrong person". I think, like, that was intentionally written. It's like, you know, if you go to take a standardized test, the ACT or SAT or something, to get a perfect zero, you have to do it absolutely intentionally. So, she knew that these were all the wrong questions. She knew that Dijkstra was going to get to that and those were the cards to his chest. But what she did, and this is why I think it was an ultimate power play over him. She took his hand and threw the cards on the table, like, I don't think she was expecting any answers. I don't think she was doing that at all. She did it to a) get Dandelion on his heels, while also dumbstrucking Dijkstra. Like, Dijkstra now has nothing, like, to ask or anything. So, where it was, like, illustrated like those two are working together. No, no. Dijkstra thinks he has all the power but I think it's Philippa just constantly being the chess master, constantly being the one like, you think we're working together. It's like, no, no, no, no, you're working for me. You're just a means to the end for me kind of deal.

ALYSSA: I think one of the really interesting things from this is just hearing that Dijkstra knows that the Temerian Secret Service is looking for Rience. Everybody's starting to look for Rience, they're interested in Ciri, they're interested in Yennefer. And now that Dandelion knows this, it's just like, I think he's going into overdrive because he knows this is a big secret. And now the Secret Services are coming to him looking for this girl. I, I'm assuming he's bugging the heck out.

JOSH: Yeah, this isn't like this little private party being interested in his best friend and this girl. There's nations involved now. So, I think it is perfectly time for Philippa to just be like, "There's no way the first person he doesn’t go to is Geralt". That plays perfectly into the fact that she follows him but this has now become a big thing. This is like sowing the seeds of the fact that this is a giant conspiracy around this girl, that it's so important to these powerful people in many ways, you know, we have some details about Ciri and stuff at this point. But it really is kind of a mystery of like, why everyone's so interested. Like, we can see like with Rience, like, we can figure out, like, a sorcerer might be interested in this, you know, magical girl. But it really is sowing the seeds of this is a massive political endeavor to figure out what's going on. And so yeah, Dandelion does the exact wrong thing. Doesn't pick up on it, not a spymaster himself.

ALYSSA: When you said, like, this sounds like a conspiracy? I don't know. I just got goosebumps everywhere, because I feel like, you know, to suddenly realize just the mountain of shit you've just fallen into, that your best friend and like his ward. Like you said, you've got nations involved all of a sudden and like he's never met Ciri, but like, it's like, "Oh, shit". Like, oh, my God. Like, the, the gravity of this is just falling upon Dandelion in this moment.

ERICK: Based on all of that, and like, you know, the weight that's just kind of coming down on Dandelion, I'm looking at those questions again, that Philippa asked him. They're all specific. Like, they're all like, again, we have to kind of put our frame of reference in medieval times. These fantasy times, because nobody would really know all of these details and she, I think that's another thing like, she's asking these questions, but she's asking them very specifically to make a point to Dandelion. Like, "hey, all of these very specific questions. People know. I know. Dijkstra knows. Like governments are coming after you". Like, these are all questions that everybody is asking. Like you said, your best friend is now involved with a multi-national intrigue and its all coming to head right on him at that very moment. The fact that Dandelion was able, able to keep some monochrome of togetherness at that moment is interesting. I'm sure he was just dying on the inside. Like, he just wanted to be anywhere but there right that, that moment.

ALYSSA: The really subtle thing that Sapkowski does here with all these questions is he does insert a little bit of exposition for the audience and the reader. Kaer Morhen is somewhere in like, the wilds of Kaedwen. So, like the fact that Geralt was seen on the way there, we know that that happened at some point. We kind of heard this from Yennefer's letter in the first half of the chapter but like Yennefer went somewhere. We received confirmation that she actually did that. Triss Merigold, we haven't heard a thing about her since the end of chapter four. We don't know what happened after the caravan but we've discovered that, like, she's been in hiding for at least a couple of months. So, we hear that, like, all of these things are happening and as you said, Erick, the fact that like, her questions are so specific that she can't be the only one who knows either. So, it's a bit scary for Dandelion at this point.

JOSH: Yeah, like they know the color of her eyes. How close do you have to get to somebody to know? It's pretty terrifying if you put yourself in his, in his shoes. Like, it's once again, she's perfectly playing him because she knows he's going to be scared for his friend and just playing off his emotions, and he's gonna run straight to him. She's just going to follow him. And it's funny, because I don't think, I mean, unless they're kind of in on it together, which I don't think so. Dijkstra doesn't think to follow him like, Dijkstra just trusts that Dandelion is going to do his job, which is strange, because he didn't do that the last time. But Philippa knows, like, "No, I understand how this works. I get how close they are. He's literally gonna go straight to him. There's no chance, he won't do anything else".

ERICK: I didn't think about the eye thing. That gave me a little bout of goosebumps. That's like a government official starting to spout off specific details about, like, my wife, or like my little sister or something. It's like, "okay, this is bad. Like, this is really bad. That's what's about to happen". So.

JOSH: She's also indicting, like, a bunch of people around Dandelion too. It's like, she names Geralt. She basically named Ciri. She names Yennefer and she names Triss. All these people that Dandelion is relatively familiar with. And so, it's bringing everything super close to home for him to terrify him and it's so well done. It's masked in, like, false naivete, that she's just this bad interrogator. But in reality, she's doing exactly what she wants to do and even Dijkstra is, like, taken off guard and doesn't realize what's happening. I think it's starting to show us, like, you know, Philippa, and the other sorceresses, like, they're at a level that even some of, like, the Secret Service folks aren't. Because of what, Philippa's what, three, three centuries old?

ALYSSA: Oh, yeah, they do mention that. She looked 30 and there was no way she was less than 300 years old.

JOSH: Yeah. So, she's been around the block many, many times and even Dijkstra, this master of spies, who’s probably what? I imagined what? Maybe in his 50s? Maybe?

ALYSSA: I would imagine he's somewhere in his 50s I would guess.

JOSH: Yeah, something like that and even him who has all the cards, like, she's not playing with the cards, she's making the cards. You know what I mean? Like, she's manufacturing them.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, that fear that we've been building up, like, between Philippa and Dijkstra, it gets to him and like, he keeps it cool, you know, throughout the conversation. He —

JOSH: He's an actor. He’s a thespian.

ALYSSA: —lies. He is an actor. Yeah. And as Erick had brought up, like, the rest of the conversation after this point is just like, "The spymaster lied, the poet lied". We get the word lied instead of said, and it's so beautiful. It's actually the end of that section as well. Dijkstra says, "’Well, go now Ori. Show our troubadour to the door. Take care.’ Dandelion got to his feet. ‘I wish you luck in your work and your personal life. My regards, Philippa. Oh, and Dijkstra, this agents' traipsing after me. Call them off.’ ‘Of course,’ lied the spy. ‘I'll call them off. Is it possible you don't believe me?’ ‘Nothing of the kind,’ lied the poet. ‘I believe you.’" And it's just perfect. It's the perfect way to end that section. But as I said, Dandelion just kind of keeps his cool up until he leaves.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we see what trouble Dandelion has gotten his closest friend into, we're gonna hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix shows. When we come back, Josh, Erick, and I will continue our discussion of Blood of Elves, Chapter 5.

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody! Only a few more days to go and we finally return to the Continent: On August 23 the Witcher spin-off anime movie "Nightmare of the Wolf" will be available on Netflix.

And the first reviews for the movie about a young Vesemir are already in. And they are full of praise. ComicBook.com, for example, wrote the following: "If you've been wondering what The Witcher is all about, this is a lovely introduction to the world of Sapkowski's novels or the live-action series. If you're already a fan of The Witcher, this is an absolute must-watch, and I'm going to need more Vesemir in my life ASAP."

GeekCulture agrees in their review. This what they have to say: "The Witcher: Nightmare of the Wolf is a thrilling tale of love, adventure, betrayal, life, and death. It encompasses what the Witcher universe is about and yet shares new stories and narratives that will be thoroughly enjoyable for fans of the franchise." This sounds magnificent and Monday cannot come soon enough.

In two interviews for TheVerge and CBR.com, Nightmare of the Wolf writer Beau DeMayo talked about his approach when writing Vesemir's story: “As Geralt’s mentor and father figure, Vesemir was the ideal protagonist. It allowed the team to explore a new time period, before the events of the show, but also have an entirely different kind of lead. Vesemir and Geralt are both witchers, mutated mercenaries who kill monsters in exchange for gold, but their personalities are completely opposite.”

Beau DeMayo also talked about the topic of taking creative liberties while adapting the lore: “I do come from a place where I do want fans to feel a part of the project. Like even looking at the teaser trailer, you can hear literal quotes from the novel being grafted in there and put into character’s mouths. That was very important to me, that this feels like something that is always bowing at the altar of what Sapkowski created. So that’s always going to be a pride of place and on my mind. I can tell you though that I never really felt, at least with this project, that I was ever really stepping out of line with what I think fans would want. Because, again, I came to Witcher before I got this job. I was just as much a fan before as I am now after, that I kind of just trusted my own Spidey-sense of like, ‘If this would piss me off, then it would probably piss most fans off’ because I’m pretty much that person.”

In other Witcher news, the filming for the Witcher prequel miniseries "Blood Origin" is well on its way. They have already finished filming in the beautiful country of Iceland and are already moving on. A great number of castings for the show have been officially confirmed by Netflix. Unfortunately, we can only guess what the story of most of the characters' might possibly be as we have only learned the character names and the actors. The only exception is Jacob Collins-Levy who will play a probably younger version of Eredin, the leader of the Wild Hunt. But here are all the other new characters and actors: Mirren Mack (who played in Sex Education or The Nest) will be the tender princess Merwyn and will appear in all 6 episodes. Lenny Henry (known for his work on Broadchurch and Amazon's Lord of the Rings series) will play a chief druid named Balor. Amy Murray will be Fenrik, a deaf druid. Nathaniel Curtis will play Brian, a merchant leader. Zach Wyatt's character is named Syndril who is most likely an elven genius we already learned about from the casting calls. Dylan Moran will play a curious character named Uthrok One-Nut, who is almost definitely a cynical sellsword also mentioned in the casting calls. Then there is Francesca Mills who plays Meldof, who could be an assassin. And then there are Huw Novelli as another curiously named character called "Brother Death" and last but not least Lizzia Annis playing a character named "Zacaré".

Maybe you've noticed that I did not talk about the Witcher main show this time. The Long Wait for Season 2 will still continue for a few more weeks and months. Maybe Netflix will release some new tidbits like character photos or teasers in the not-so-distant future.

Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Discussion

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey, everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Dandelion had been interrogated by Sigismund Dijkstra, the head of Redania’s secret service, and Philippa Eilhart, a sorceress and powerful advisor in the Redanian court.

ALYSSA: After his confrontation with Dijkstra and Philippa, Dandelion spends a lot of time on the Oxenfurt grounds. He goes to a lecture. He takes a nap somewhere. He, like, has a bunch of drinks, like, in a, in some sort of like philosophy forum and slips out into the night waiting for half an hour in the shadows of a coach house before getting to where Geralt is staying. He climbs the window and then knocks on it, he's just like, "Hey Geralt, Geralt. Let me in". And Geralt is like "Wait, wait, don't come in". And Dandelion is like, "What the hell. Are you bedding someone right now? Fuck it. I'll go in". And he flies into the room and knocks over bowls of apples and onions which are on the sill. Sees the light green robes of a medical student on the floor and realizes that Shani is in bed with Geralt. And it is just like, "ah" as a reader. And also, Dandelion is in the same boat as well. Dandelion immediately tells Geralt, "it's bad". Like, the Secret Services are looking. They're not even bothering with Rience anymore. They're looking for Yennefer and the girl. Geralt is like, "oh shit", and he prepares to leave. Shani prepares to climb out the window with them and an owl immediately swoops in. We had heard in the previous section that supposedly, Philippa was one of the sorceresses who may have mastered the art of polymorphy. And we get confirmation of that here and suddenly Philippa is in the room and we hear all about her plot. But I don't know if I should keep going and continue my drunk history for the Witcher. If you guys want to stop and discuss anything at this point,

ERICK: I think that was pretty straightforward. If anything, like, Dandelion's hurried entry through the window despite Geralt saying, "nah", just kind of further proves what we were saying earlier that, you know, he's keeping it cool. You know, he's playing it cool in front of Dijkstra and Philippa, but once he gets to his friend, he's just dying. And he's like, okay, I don't care what the hell is going on now, this is bad. Like, I'm picturing him just, like, really just falling apart now because he's just trying to keep it together all day. But yeah, it's gotten bigger than he ever anticipated.

JOSH: Yeah, something actually going back a little bit. I thought the whole sequence of him hopping over the, the roofs and stuff like that. And then eventually, at the end of his whole little Assassin's Creed sequence of him, like, going through a, a hole and a hedge that he had widened when he was at school. It just makes me go, "Oh, this is not his first time escaping from someone". Like, it's very clear that Dandelion, being this foppish womanizer, has had to have some escape routes from different areas of where he used to hang out. It's super, like, a wonderful how Sapkowski goes like, "yeah, he's done this before. He's had to do this before". So, I really enjoyed that and yeah, playing right into like, he's so scared and worried at this point. Like, Philippa's whole plan worked so well that he doesn't care if he catches Geralt in flagrante, like, he doesn't care. He needs to get in to talk to his friend. It doesn't matter to him so yeah. Very interesting insight into Dandelion in this particular chapter.

ALYSSA: He also, like, makes Geralt work for the information. He's like, "It's bad" and Geralt's like, "Rience?". And he's like, "No, worse". And there's like an element of, like, dramatics that it's just like, "Dude, it's not the fucking time. Just, like, tell him".

JOSH: He can't go about doing anything without like, everything's dramatic to him. Like, he plays it up. He's the star of the show at all times, you know?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: So it's, it's great.

ERICK: I have to say, I have, I have fallen into that myself in my day to day life. Like, I will make people work for like,"Guess what? No. Guess." I'll play it all up and just, like, "No, I, I had a bowl of frosted flakes". That's how I picture Dandelion.

ALYSSA: Yeah, and I mean, you kind of see that throughout the rest of the section. It's really fascinating because we get the conversation between Geralt and Dandelion. As well as, you know, Geralt, Dandelion, Shani, and Philippa all through Dandelion's perspective. And he is so preoccupied throughout this whole section with trying to get poetry out of Shani's state. He goes over, like, the body of this 17 year old. He's like looking for any trace of blush or embarrassment that she's been found with The Witcher, and oh, my God, there is none. But the glow of her skin in the candle light and yeah, like, it's just like, dude, focus. Focus just a little bit.

JOSH: Yeah, there's so much in there with Dandelion. He just can't keep his eyes off of her because you know, he's the womanizer that he is, but also can't keep his mind off his own poetry even when he's terrified for his best friend. I can't pull it up in the book right now but there is a line speaking about, you know, when he's looking for her embarrassment as he would assume this girl would have and she gives no fucks. She thinks the whole thing is kind of hilarious and she thinks it's like, can’t remember what the exact line is. I wonder if I could find it. You have it?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: It's really good. It says a lot about her very succinctly.

ALYSSA: Well, there's: “The Witcher gathered Shani's clothes and his own from the floor. He looked abashed and dressed in silence. The medical student hiding behind him was struggling with her shirt. The poet watched her insolently searching in his mind for rhymes and similes for the golden color of her skin and the light of the oil lamp and the curves of her small breasts.” And it keeps going, they ask Shani if she's ready to climb down a window, and it says, "The student of medicine smoothed down her robe. ‘It won't be my first window.’ ‘I was sure of that.’ The poet scrutinized her intently, counting on seeing a blush worthy of rhyme and metaphor. He miscalculated. Mirth in her hazel eyes and an impudent smile were all he saw". And it's just like, ugh.

ERICK: She's a troublemaker.

ALYSSA: She is. She is.

ERICK: In one way or another, she, she has a history of troublemaking, and it like, completely throws a curveball at Dandelion because he's in with so many women. And now, like, it's her and she's completely as obstinate as, as he is and he's just like, "well, can't do anything artful with that". So, I like that.

ALYSSA: And you know, it's at this point then that they're preparing to climb out the window and like, of course just like in the last section. As Geralt is preparing his escape, he's immediately caught by whoever's looking for him and in this case, it is Philippa Eilhart. And she flies into the window as an owl, Shani and Geralt react. And Dandelion's like, "Philippa, don't be silly”. And she is just as regal as ever.

JOSH: The moment that Philippa changes from an owl back into human form, and it's something about the way Sapkowski describes magic that's something that's really close to home from something I really love. And it ties back into like, The Bounds of Reason story, that it's not this flashy, it's not Doctor Strange with all these, like, you know, flashes of runes and stuff. I love that it's just simply she was and then she was not an owl, you know? It's this little detail that's not very common in fantasy. It's kind of unique to the Witcher world that magic feels mundane. That it wouldn't be this flash of energy that she literally just goes from one state to the other. She doesn't even morph. It's not even like in the old animorphs books if anyone remembers those horrendous covers where people are changing from a person to an animal. It just is and then it isn't. It just a call out I always like to make because the way he does his magic is I think so perfect. And it makes it feel real and almost like a science. Like, it feels like it actually obeys some laws of physics. Obviously, it's breaking them but just a call out I have to make because I love when he does this and it's so enigmatic of this world in particular.

ERICK: He does that with the dragon in Last Wish.

JOSH: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Villentretenmerth. Yeah.

JOSH: He describes it, like, in depth. Like, it wasn't a great flash of whatever. It wasn't a shifting and a crumble. It just, he was a dragon and then he was, he was not. And I love that, it's so cool. That's how I often try to describe things in my own Pathfinder games. So, if you know I use some flashy magical stuff but I prefer it to be almost, like, it almost doesn't make any sense, like, why would there be this release of bright light and energy depending on what you're doing, it would just be, it would just be. I guess is all I could say, you know? So it's, it's something I love. I just, I have to call it out when it's there because it's so specifically his. No one else does it like that.

ALYSSA: You know, we talked about how, like, Shani could only, like, look at the situation with mirth. As soon as Philippa gets into the room, she blushes when she's, like, now scrutinized by the sorceress. And ooh, Philippa comes in like, guns blazing and just immediately closes in on Shani and uses her as a tool to try to get to Geralt. She asks Shani, how old she is or what year she's in rather. And Shani reveals that she's in her third year, and Philippa immediately turns to Geralt, and she's like, "Oh, 17. I bet Yennefer would love to be 17 again". And to his credit, Geralt doesn't take the bait, but for readers we’re just like, "17?!?!"

JOSH: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Like, Essi Daven was 18 I believe in A Little Sacrifice. But, good lord. My guy, you are like, somewhere between 70 and 90. Stop sleeping with girls who are 17.

JOSH: Yeah, it's interesting, like, you think about the outside perspective, you know, obviously in-world it sets something up and that's fine. But I feel like this would be, this is a deliberate choice of Sapkowski. Like, it doesn't feel like a mistake, you know? It's just shy, you know? I don't know where the age of consent laws are back when this was being written and stuff in Poland but like it's just shy of that and either way, even if she was 18 or 20 or 25 it would still be kind of weird. So, it's just interesting to see, like, if this was deliberately trying to set, like, maybe Geralt's just in like a weird pla—, he's just doing shit he shouldn't be doing. Like, he's almost doing things to, like, stave off all of the hard realities. It's more of him receding, you know what I mean? And more of him, like just allowing himself to just be this, I guess hedonistic. I mean, it could just be that 17 was just kind of the, the age that was chosen to kind of make her sound very young to really anyone. But I feel like it has to be particular, you know, like, I, I mean, it would be interesting to see, like, what the age of consent was in Poland at the time. Just to kind of know, make, because culturally, he was probably trying to hit something. But either way it hits kind of throughout all of our modern history. It's just weird.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: And it's got to be deliberate, you know?

ERICK: This is probably a cop out answer but to give benefit of the doubt, it's like, in Game of Thrones, all of the characters, all the kids, you know, involved in adult acts and crimes —

JOSH: Sure, yeah.

ERICK: —were like 12, 13, 14. And maybe the contextual frame is during these kind of time periods, you grew up much younger. But that being said, this isn't a recounting any historic events, this is a choice that a modern day author is making. So, that's why I think that might be a little cop out answer. So, I'm, I'm leaning more towards Josh's curiosity. I wonder what the age of consent in Poland, culturally-speaking was, at the time of this being written.

ALYSSA: You know, I think we as an audience, like, especially as like a modern audience, want our character to be someone we can root for and just like things like this, it's just like, "why are you being dumb? Why, why would you? Argh".

ERICK: Yeah.

JOSH: Yeah. I, I think —

ALYSSA: Oh, man.

JOSH: He's deliberately trying to call up, like, that this is strange and Philippa basically affirms that it is odd.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: Like, she specifically brings up the age. Talks about how, you know, I think Yen would be upset in many ways, mainly just because it's another person but like, I think he's, Sapkowski's trying to get that reaction out of us. Like, it's supposed to not be a good moment because even Dandelion has, like, a weird reaction to it a little bit.

ERICK: Yeah.

JOSH: Oh, really like, "Shani, you're with this guy?" And so it's, it's just very interesting to see him trying to almost bring up a more modern feeling we had towards something to give us insight into where this is all at.

ERICK: Yeah, yeah.

JOSH: And so, I also feel like The Witcher world, the continent is a bit anachronistic in that way. Like, I think the ages line up a little bit more to modern 20th century kind of ideals, you know? Like, with Song of Ice and Fire, like, Jon Snow is like 14, George R. R. Martin's leaning into the historic accuracy. I think we're supposed to get the vibe that Geralt is in a really weird place and isn't his best self right now but he's also on his heels. Geralt always has control in, like, his monster-slaying and whatnot. Like, the first two books are rather him being pretty savvy. And right now, he's just really looking for escapism from what's happening in his life, you know?

ALYSSA: The whole thing just, like, feels weird, but again, vaseline, we move on. I think the important thing that we see here is like, you know, there is some tension between Philippa and Geralt because again, he has information that she wants and ulterior motives and Geralt is not going to take the bait. Philippa gives, like, a little bit of exposition about her purpose and her goals, which kind of undermine Dijkstra's responsibilities for King Vizimir at this point. She affirms that, "I take my responsibilities seriously and they consist of warning the King against making mistakes. Sometimes, as in this particular instance, I'm not allowed to tell the king outright that he is committing a mistake or to dissuade him from a hasty action. I simply have to render it impossible for him to make a mistake. Do you understand what I'm saying?" Geralt replies, like, "Okay, so I see that the Council of Wizards is also interested in my ward. The wizards wish to find out where my ward is and they want to get to her before Vizimir or anybody else does". Philippa then stamps her foot and she's like, "You need to take care of her. You need to own your responsibility to her and you need to protect her". I think she at some point earlier had also said like, "You took the right from people who had the right to take care of her and were qualified. You do not seem qualified to take care of her if you don't know why all these people are interested in her". And it's, again, so scathing, but ultimately, she doesn't push him any further than just delivering that warning.

JOSH: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it continues to give a sort of insight into the role of sorcerers and sorceresses in the grander scheme of things that, you know, they're never manipulating people. They're manipulating situations, which is interesting. Gives them almost more power while being completely innocent. It really reminds me, I mean, I know that Erick is a Dune fan. It very much reminds me of —

ERICK: The Bene Gesserit?

JOSH: The Bene Gesserit. Yes. I got into Dune actually just in the last, like, year or two but it's very obvious that Sapkowski, kind of is drawing from that. The Council of Wizards and then the Lodge of Sorceresses very much have a lot of influence from the Bene Gesserit. And it's manipulating things around people, not manipulating people directly in many ways. And so that's, that's super interesting. It's such an interesting thing to think about, like, it is obviously in some kind of league with Dijkstra. But Dijkstra obviously has no idea how much information that she actually has. She basically knows the answers to the questions that she asked Dandelion previously. Is it, is it her or is it Geralt that says Ciri first? I can't, I know somebody literally just, like, drops the name right off the bat. It might have been Geralt specifically but he obviously feels comfortable enough that she already knows enough information that he can just directly talk about her. Dijkstra is just getting played. He has no idea how much info she already has. So, it's a really interesting kind of just change from the previous scene that it kind of affirms that, yeah, she was very much playing the situation so that she could get direct access to the Witcher.

ALYSSA: You know, toward the end of the section, Geralt is able to ask a lot of the questions that the audience has had or if they haven't thought of it, they're being told to, like, think of it now. Geralt asks Philippa, like, to enlighten him. "What makes so many people suddenly want to free me from the burden of that responsibility? Want to take on my duties and care for my ward? What does the Council of Wizards want from Ciri? What do Dijkstra and King Vizimir want from her? What do the Temerians want from her? What does a certain Rience who has already murdered three people in Sodden and Temeria who were in touch with me and the girl two years ago want from her? Who almost murdered Dandelion trying to extract information about her? Who is this Rience, Philippa?". "I don't know", says the magician. "I don't know who Rience is but like you, I'd very much like to find out". The close of this chapter suddenly turns the tables again. There's always the reason why every character is in this story and we see that with Shani here. All of a sudden, she pipes up, does this Rience have a third-degree burn on his face? If so, then I know who he is and I know where he is. This chapter closes with, "In the silence which fell, the first drops of rain knocked on the gutter outside the window".

ERICK: I love that.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I'm just like goosebumps. I'm like, I read it and I got goosebumps.

ERICK: Yeah, it's a bomb drop and it's like the —

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ERICK: —biggest question and the biggest goal Geralt and company has, and she's just like, "Oh. Oh, I can take you right to him".

JOSH: Yeah, it's one of the things that seems almost out of the blue. But the burn that Rience has is like a perfect segue to this medical student, you know? It's something she would either notice or whatever. It's really masterfully done and is unexpected. And I love that the end of the chapter is, he does this all the time, Sapkowski just lets that sit. There's no reaction to it really. He describes the rain on the windowsill outside and it just, he lets you sit with that of. "Oh, this is not what you expected". And you almost feel the same way that the other characters do right in there.

ERICK: You're right. No, that, that's a great way to put it. Sapkowski is narrating us, the readers, at that point. Like, where the silence that fell. I'm sure that he absolutely, absolutely intended for us, the readers, to have like, that mental jaw-drop-silence at that moment. And he is not so much as narrating in the scene, but getting meta with it. Like, he knows he just dropped a bomb and he is telling us. "Yeah, I know you're surprised". It sounds a little conceited when I put it that way but he's a masterful writer. So, he deserves it.

ALYSSA: Yeah, this is kind of taken us through this arc for the chapter. Like, we were with Geralt with the Malatius and Grock Company, and as we discovered he was there specifically trying to bait Rience into coming out into the open. We saw how that failed spectacularly for him and then, you know, we see the workings of the kingdoms on the continent right now and the Secret Services that they're also looking for Rience. They're looking for Yennefer and they're looking for Ciri. And all of this kind of comes to a head in this conversation where this random 17-year-old medical student has the key for all of their answers right now. So, as we close out this chapter, what did you guys think of, you know, where we are in Blood of Elves and what this chapter means as we look toward the rest of the book?

JOSH: There's plenty of stuff that happens up until chapter five, but like, the book really kind of starts to lean into things from here on out. Like, I think in just the next chapter and it really sets that up. But it is an interesting thing to see, how all of these great powers and it reminds me a lot of, you know, Linus Pitt these great powers with all their money and all their intelligence. And with Geralt's masterful planning, that doesn't really work. It's just this humble medical student who has the answer, just like, right there for them to kind of like, get. And so it's an interesting commentary on, like, as much power as these great nations have. It's this simple girl who has the right answer for them and leads them straight to this guy. I love how in the second section, it totally recontextualizes the previous story and makes you want to go back and, like, reread it to check for the details because you know there's stuff in there and then there is like peppered about. And it's funny, like, you know, Geralt does see himself as, I think he really does see himself as kind of an intellectual. Like, I think there's some, like, illusion that he is, you know, very much like a, he's a pretty big reader and enjoys being kind of like in the know of things. He has this great plan and his fame and witcheriness just completely thwarts the entire thing. No matter what he does, even his, you know, masterful plan just doesn't go right because people know him. He's famous and because he's, you know, good at this job and so it's very interesting to see that now after going back through for the second time. So.

ERICK: To answer your question about, like, you know how I'm feeling going forward in regards to the whole saga. It's definitely, like, I'm getting excited because this is the point where things start really delving into not just the political intrigue, but the cat and mouse chase. The constant loom of dread. So, this is the point where all of the formative events start percolating for our beloved cast here and it's the point in the roller coaster where you're buckled up, and the operator just hit start. And you just hit that first click —

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ERICK: —on that hill that's about to drop you. So, that's what I'm excited for and everything is just seeing the personal journey amongst everyone because we've had our world built. We've had our politics built. Right now, it's now the personal journey of these characters.

JOSH: Yeah, it's widened the world in a lot of ways. Like, obviously, all those politics were set up but this story really has been about Geralt, Yen, and Ciri, really, you know? It still is focused on them but there's so many larger powers that are now involved. Like, you said, the dread is building, it's making it more dire, we really are going up the ramp to the first big drop on the roller coaster, but it's also setting the foundation for like this giant conspiratorial thing that's happening with Ciri's bloodline. Ciri is special, but we have no idea how special she is. And so, a lot of the questions that are being asked by Temerian Intelligence and the Redanian Secret Service and Philippa, I think she probably knows more than we think she does but it really is the same questions were like, "Wait. She's important, obviously. But there's something else here". And we don't get pay-off for that for a long time. So yeah, it's, this is definitely, like, the groundwork.

ALYSSA: Yeah, and as you both have said, it's like, Blood of Elves feels like a little bit of a slow burn at first. We have the escapism of chapters one, two, and three, you know, in Kaer Morhen. We have effectively what feels like a short story in chapter four with the caravan on their way to the Temple of Melitele. And then we get here, and we meet all of these people who are going to be major players throughout the rest of the saga. And we are getting strapped in. We are certainly strapped in from this point out, I say this in every episode, but my God. There's so much to look forward to from here on out now that we have finally set the foundations and we've got these major players. We have the kingdoms, we have, you know, our heroes, and we are about to see where this takes them. So, that is it for our show today. Josh, Erick, thank you so much for joining us for this episode, and thank you to our Hanza for listening. So, where can people find you both, and is there anything that our community can help you with or anything that you would like to share with them?

JOSH: Yeah. I mean, first off, just thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

JOSH: If anybody does want to follow my show, it's just @PodCalledQuest everywhere. You can go to podcalledquest.com. Check that out. We release episodes every Friday. It's a good old time, there's over 100 episodes out of various shows that we have, so plenty of content if you're in for it. But if you want to follow me, it's just @JoshCalledQuest basically everywhere. So, yeah, we'd love to, we'd love to have you part of the gang.

ERICK: And my gaming website, which I'm still much a part of. It's called Heavy Shelf. Go to Twitter go to @heavyshelf, spelled exactly as it is, that's where I do most of my games streaming. And I did a lot of Gwent and I did take a bit of hiatus. But now that my life has settled and stuff, I'm going to be picking back up on that. So, you can, you know, look for more updates on that if you are interested in that kind of thing at either @Schwartz_ERICKk or @heavyshelf, and just keep an eye out for that. On Twitch, I am @sliderunner. If I'm streaming under the heavy shelf banner is going to be @heavyshelf, keep an eye out for any sort of Witcher related streaming such as the games or Gwent or just any other games that I feel like playing

ALYSSA: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us for this episode, and also thank you for your patience. I think I interviewed you guys in December of 2019 right around when the show went out and it's been about a year and a half since then that you guys have been, you know, waiting to record this episode. So, thank you so much for being just so lovely and I'm so glad that we finally got to get you both on. Next episode join us as we discuss Chapter Six of Andrzej Sapkowski's Blood of Elves.

ERICK: Thank you.

JOSH: Awesome.

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Dustin, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Brett from California, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Sebastian von Novigrad, Tom from Australia, and Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch.

Special thanks to Josh and Erick for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: John Matthew Sarong
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil

 

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Podcast EpisodeAlyssa EstebanBlood of Elves