Ep. 20 — "Betrayer Moon" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 2)

Rob P. from New York and Mitch from Nebraska join Alyssa from GoodMorhen for the second half of our discussion of “Betrayer Moon”, the third episode in season one of Netflix’s The Witcher. Very important bits include: Rob and Mitch take the reins for a compelling discussion about Geralt and Yennefer’s storylines, they share their personal interests in filmmaking and screenwriting, followed by an analysis of the unique horror atmosphere and dissection of the climactic transformation scenes of the episode.

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

ALYSSA: Next episode, we’ll be joined by Shaun from Northern Ireland and Christiaan from South and Canada.

MITCH: It’s a lot farther away than Nebraska.

Introduction

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across The Continent.

[Welcome]

Hi, everyone! Hope you’re all doing well. Since the last episode, I’ve been ambling my way toward a more plant-based diet (I still do eat eggs and cheese for my morning omelettes!), I watched Pride & Prejudice five times in two days, and had tons of exciting deliveries to my apartment. My little 300 sq. ft.—or 28 sq. m.—apartment is full with packages of shiny, blue bubble mailers, handmade tea towels, a fancy new thermal label printer, and I should be getting the new black and speckled chicken enamel pins soon!

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[Episode Details]

As for this episode, Rob P. from New York and Mitch from Nebraska return for the second half of Episode 103 “Betrayer Moon” from Netflix’s The Witcher. I did take a bit of a backseat in this episode, because I was feeling a bit nauseous when we recorded, and I learned a ton from listening to the conversation! Rob and Mitch took the reins for a truly compelling discussion about Geralt and Yennefer’s storylines through a filmmaking lens. Join us as Rob and Mitch share their personal interests in filmmaking and screenwriting, followed by an analysis of the unique horror atmosphere and dissection of the climactic transformation scenes of the episode.

In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares major news about this week’s surprise Netflix announcement: the upcoming spin-off series, “The Witcher: Blood Origins,” as well as additional production news on Season 2.

Without further ado, let’s get to the discussion for The Witcher Episode 103, “Betrayer Moon” (Part 2).

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Hey everyone, welcome back from the break.  I'm here with Mitch and Rob discussing betrayer moon from Season I of Netflix's, The Witcher. In the first half of the show, we broke down the episode into Geralt’s storyline, Yennefer’s storyline, and Ciri’s storyline. And, now, we're going to hand it over to Robin and Mitch to actually break down some of their favorite moments from the episode. Before I turn the conversation like to The Witcher specifically, Mitch, did you happen to have any like questions for Rob or, Rob, would you have any questions for Mitch?

ROB: Yeah, man. What type of genres really speak to you as a writer?

MITCH: I mean, right now, I'm – I mean, obviously, really fantasy. That's typically been my favorite genre. I think it's mainly because it's like fantasy can talk about so many issues without – you know, without it becoming preachy if you know what I mean. So, it's like you could talk about so many different issues in such a great way. That's what I really love about it. And it also has, like, so many things that I love, which is, like, monsters and magic and great epic things. Right now, I'm trying to develop a little mini series right now. Umm. Have you guys ever seen Girls?

ROB: Yeah.

ALYSSA: I haven't watched it, but I’m familiar with it. Yeah.

MITCH: See, I watched all six seasons of it. I don't know if I really liked it, but there was something about it that kind of interested me or else I wouldn't have watched all six seasons of it. But—

ROB: I understand that. 

MITCH: —even though, like, I don't know if I completely, 100 percent, support Lena Dunham or anything. But what I thought was interesting about it was kind of, like, you know, like, these, like, unconditional friendships in a way in the media and in film and television. I always thought it was very interesting how like female friendships are shown versus how male friendships are shown, because, usually, in male friendships, in TV and in film, it's about, like, going out and having a good time. It's never really about, like, guys opening up to each other being vulnerable with each other, because that's not traditionally masculine. So, I'd love to write stuff that kind of, like, breaks down those masculinity barriers.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: That's great.

MITCH: So, like, yeah, I've been really interested in kind of writing a mini series that's kind of about two roommates who are, like, friends and they're, like, really good friends. And they're really open with each other. And I kind of want to, like, make a show that breaks those gender barriers of what a male friendship can be. This is why I love the Lord of the Rings. The Frodo and Sam dynamic is not usually what you typically see in a – like, a massive multimillion dollar film conglomerate story, which I really love. I'm really kind of interested in stories like that. I mean the film I directed not too long ago is about, like, this couple who, like, become famous online because they just post a picture of an orange online that becomes famous and it's ridiculous.

ROB: That sounds too real.

ALYSSA: Right.

MITCH: Yeah. As of lately, I've been writing comedic drama stuff, but I'd love to get into more serious things. It's just, whenever I start writing something, it somehow ends up being funny, which I don't plan on doing, but it's just kind of what happens.

ALYSSA: I mean that's a skill in and of itself.

MITCH: Yeah. I mean I have the opposite problem with most people, because a lot of people love to write, like, dramas and serious things. But, for some reason, whenever I started writing, it's like, “Ah, this would be so funny if I did this way.” So, I, I usually like to go for more comedic effect, because it comes more natural to me and I love doing stuff like that. What sort of things do you like to write, Rob?

ROB: I definitely have written a lot of thrillers, a lot of dark comedy stuff. I really like satirical stuff. I mean that's what my novel is. It's a dark comedy, satirical, like, mystery story. I like Sci-fi a lot too. I didn't know get into fantasy until I was like nine or 10 when I started reading the Harry Potter books. I've kind of been on and off fantasy throughout my whole life. I would definitely say Sci-fi is probably my favorite genre – Sci-fi and dark comedy. So, I tend to write a lot of stuff that has either Sci-fi elements or dark comedy elements even if it's like a more straightforward, dramatic type story. I always feel like life is not one tone or the other for however long. So, you need to have some type of tonal shift or hard levity. Not only is it a good way to kind of explore the humanity of characters and try and emulate how life is, which I feel like a lot of my writing is very empathetic. And I always want it to be, like, emotionally honest as possible no matter the genre and no matter the characters that I'm writing. So, I always try to keep stuff grounded emotionally, but then just allow kind of the story to go in an organic direction and an organic tone, whether it's more comedic or more dramatic.

MITCH: Yeah, it totally makes sense, because, yeah, like, a great thing about The Witcher is that there are many different types of tones that it brings on and it turns on.

ROB: Definitely.

MITCH: Yeah. And, so, it's like I really enjoy stories that kind of blend many tones together. And maybe that's why I watched all six seasons of Girls, because – because it was like – at some points, it was, like, really sad and depressing. And, at other points, it was like, “Oh, this is – this is kind of funny.” I sort of like stories like that. Totally.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, so, now, that we've established that Andrzej Sapkowski is really just old Polish Lena Dunham, umm, I—

ROB: Oh, my god.

MITCH: That's what we were going for.

ALYSSA: Really, we could just end the podcast here. I think we did all the analysis that we needed to do and that, that I think this is it.

MITCH: Way to go, Andrzej.

ALYSSA: But, yeah, I mean, now that the conversation is kind of turning toward The Witcher, could you tell our audience and our friends how you guys got into the universe of The Witcher?

ROB: Sure. Mitch, do you want to go first?

MITCH: Fine. All right. So, this is gonna be kind of funny, but I – so, I didn't know anything about The Witcher until the games. Like a lot of people, I got introduced through the third game when it came out in 2015. And I watched a playthrough of it from this guy named Chris Smoove, who's actually a basketball game YouTuber. But, for some reason, he did all of the Witcher 3. It stayed in the back of my mind, because I thought it was a really interesting story until I got a PS4 three years ago before my freshman year of college, and I bought the game. And I kept it around for, like, a whole year. And I've no idea why I did that until I finally started playing. And I couldn't put it down. I've played the game three times now, which is – which is quite the investment.

ROB: Does that include the DLC?

MITCH: Yeah, that includes the DLCs. But then, last summer, you know, I saw that the TV show was coming out. And, at that point, I had watched a playthrough of the first game and I played the second game. I knew the game story pretty well, but I didn't know too much about the books. I decided to read them over the summer. At first, I don’t know why I did watch the TV show, Fresh, but I ended up not doing it, because I just wanted more Witcher stuff. And, so, I read the books in a very, very short amount of time. And it was also in the summer. So, I didn't have much to do. So, I think I literally read, like, all seven books in, like, three weeks. Yeah, because they really hooked me. I mean I loved all the characters. It was just so fun to, like, listen to them and read their dialogue and how unique and introspective they all were. And especially, like, the main character, Geralt. I thought he was so interesting, because in – like, on the outside, he seems like this titular badass masculine hero. But really he's kind of – like, once you break down his outside, he's really not like that at all. He's, like, very philosophical.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

MITCH: He’s kind of a softy lover boy at heart. He's thrown in a very dark and sad situation. And he's basically just kind of reacting to the world around him. He's a reflection on the world that he's in. And, so, really, that's kind of what hooked me about the whole thing. So, I just read all the books and watched the show. Here I am now.

ALYSSA: And, Rob, you also came in to The Witcher universe through the video games as well, right?

ROB: I did. So, I came into The Witcher universe through The Witcher 2: Assassin of Kings. So, Witcher 2, I got into it through basically playing Mass Effect 3. Once again, I was a big Sci-fi fan growing up. So, I'd played all the Mass Effect games. And I was really disappointed in how Mass Effect 3 ended. And, so, I read an interview with the lead designer on Witcher 2, because Witcher 2 was coming out I think on the Xbox 360 right after Mass Effect 3 had come out. And they were talking about how, in Witcher 2, your choices actually matter and affect the story. So, I was like, “Huh, okay.” So, Witcher 2 was kind of like my RPG rebound after Mass Effect 3. I really kind of fell in love with the characters and the worlds. The combat took a little bit of getting used to. But, once I did, it was a lot of fun. And I really enjoyed it. You know, I kind of waited anticipated The Witcher 3. Tried to 100 percent it as much as I could. Yeah, I played through it two times, including the DLC. I really got into Gwent on my second playthrough.

ALYSSA: Yep.

MITCH: Nice.

ROB: And then I found out later that Gwent actually is not in the books. It's a game creation, which was so interesting to me.

ALYSSA: Well, there is a game that's played by dwarves. And it's called Barrel in the English translation.

ROB: Okay.

ALYSSA: And it does sound vaguely similar to Gwent.

MITCH: Is it a dice game or a card game?

ALYSSA: No, it's a card game. Yeah.

MITCH: Okay. Yeah.

ALYSSA: It's a card game. There's, like, this whole thing Geralt notes how beautiful dwarven cards are compared to how shitty and, like, beer stained human cards are.

ROB: Okay.

ALYSSA: And, yeah, there – he talks about how there's a lot of really beautiful efforts into the artwork of dwarven cards. And I always imagined them looking almost like tarot cards—

MITCH: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: —for whatever reason when I read that part of the books. But yeah.

ROB: Oh, that's – that's really interesting, because, unlike Mitch, I have not read The Witcher books. I have skimmed through the plots and kind of the backstories of the characters after beating Witcher 3 just because I was interested in, like, you know, what is the backstory of these characters. You know, because there definitely are things mentioned in Witcher 2, and Witcher 3, and Witcher 1 that callback to events in both the short stories and the novels. Because I didn't know that the games were unofficial sequels. So, that's why I kind of found out about like the plots and the characters of the actual novels, but I haven't actually read the novels yet. And, after watching the first season of the show and really enjoying it, I actually purchased the first three books from Barnes and Noble. Like Mitch, I'm going to start reading the books. And – yeah. And, and seeing how the story unfolds for myself finally. And I'm sure that, you know, similar to how the show has made changes from the novels, I'm sure there will be changes that are made when adapting the books to future seasons of the show, which is how it should be. I – you know, as someone who is adapted and is actually adapting fiction right now into screenplay form. I think it's important, well, as a writer, to not be beholden to the letter of source material, but be beholden to the spirit of it to make sure that it adapts well to the medium that you're making. And, if possible, make it even better and stronger. But that – that's how I got into The Witcher. It was through Witcher 2. When I heard about the show and I heard that Henry is going to be Geralt, I thought that was a great choice. I saw a lot of people on Twitter that were not a fan of his casting, because they had only known him for Superman. They thought he was too much of a pretty boy, which is so funny to me because, apparently, those exact same complaints were brought up by Polish fans when the original Hexer TV adaptation was coming out in the early 2000s. So, I thought that was really funny how history was repeating itself. I also did watch The Hexer TV show. And it's – it's exactly what you'd expect from a low budget, early 2000s Polish production.

ALYSSA: It's a spiritual journey.

ROB: It's – it's certainly a journey.

MITCH: Yeah. I've seen clips of the, the dragon.

ROB: Yeah. Yeah. So, that's – that's my experience with The Witcher. You know, having watched Season I, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing where further seasons go.

ALYSSA: So, the basis of this expert corner that we're going to go over today really does come from the angle of filmmaking and editing. Both Mitch and Rob are gonna talk about the episode in this context. Rob, specifically, you wanted to discuss the overall atmosphere and mood and how a number of different elements of production ladder up to one specific theme and genre. Would you be able to tell us more about that?

ROB: Yeah, sure. So, for me, this episode, “Betrayer Moon”, was my favorite episode of the season, because it felt like everyone was firing on all cylinders in terms of not only the writing and the storytelling and the structure, but also the filmmaking craft starting all the way from the very first part of the episode where we get this great cold open that just has all this great horror atmosphere in the way that the shots are framed, the way that the pacing gradually reveals new information that kind of builds out the story visually and complements the dialogue that's happening to the way that, you , scenes are lit mostly in candlelight for a lot of scenes, or with sunlight, or moonlight. All of that – you know, the cinematography and the way shots are framed, a good combination of low angles to get a good sense of foreboding in certain scenes, and then kind of a lot of great wide angles close up shots for more impactful horrific sequences. I think even, you know, not just the action scenes with the striga fight and, you know, the transformation, but I think even with the dialogue scenes themselves. The cinematographer and the director I think both work in tandem to really create this wonderful horror atmosphere that kind of pervades over the entire episode, because most of the episode takes place at night. And most of the episode revolves around these kinds of horrific themes, whether it's a monster that's killing people or it's a woman who is going for this body horror and the transformation. The filmmaking craft, I think, really complements the storytelling happening in this episode really, really well. I think, specifically, the scene that really stood out to me, other than the opening scene and striga fight, is the scene where Geralt and Triss are confronting Foltest and his advisors. And you just – the scene starts with this really grotesque close up a Foltest eating, like, a chicken leg. And it's shot in this like wide angle lens. And he's just kind of framed in the center. And the whole scene kind of revolves around them arguing around Foltest and arguing about what they want to do about the striga. The whole scene, you know, turns and we get this great close up of Foltest who tells them all to, like, pretty much get the fuck out after Geralt implies that there may have been an incestuous relationship between Foltest and Adda. You know, I just think the way that Geralt and Foltests are framed throughout this beginning part of the sequence and then the sequence where Geralt confronts Foltest directly after locking the door, I think, it's a great back and forth dialogue scene that kind of emphasizes the tension and kind of the horrific undertones of the episode. And just the way that Shaun Dooley and Henry play that scene, and the way that they're both framed, and the way that the pacing of the cuts happens, I think it's just so well done. And I think it tells you so much about their character as well. Not just in the dialogue but within the performances themselves. It's a really wonderful little scene that then gets further paid off later on when they're friendly with each other on the bridge. So, I just think this episode is just so well done. And I, I really love everything about it. It reminds me of a really great episode of Game of Thrones too in the fact that there's such great cross cutting between Geralt’s storyline and Yen’s storyline that complements each other and complements the themes of the episode really well that ultimately leads to the climax of the episode; the action climax and the emotional climax, which is, you know, I think the best fight of the whole season.

MITCH: I think you, you picked up a pretty cool point about, like, the body horror aspect, because, yeah, it definitely kind of reminds you of like a Cronenberg movie or a Carpenter movie. Especially, like, in Yennefer’s transformation, it's pretty gruesome. So, yeah, it definitely kind of reminds me of that or De Palma movie. I think Alex Garcia Lopez is probably a huge fan of those directors if I were to guess.

ROB: Absolutely. Yeah. I think there's a lot of homages to Alien, Jaws, and The Thing --

MITCH: Yeah.

ROB: —and the fly. You don't typically see that in a fantasy TV show. So, I thought that was really cool. It wasn't afraid to delve into a horror as a genre and fantasy horror specifically, because that's not something that I think a lot of people expect with a fantasy show is horror when it comes to, you know, fantasy storytelling. It's usually more character driven. It's usually more sword and sorcery or it's more political. So, I think the fact that the show embraced the horror nature of the short story and embrace the horror nature also of, once again, the games, I thought was really great. And I think it kind of made this episode stand out I think for the rest of the season. And I think, ultimately, it’s part of making The Witcher itself I think stand out on its own as a TV show, separate from show like Game of Thrones and The Shannara Chronicles and Black Sails. Shows like that other fantasy shows, Outlander and The Lake.

ALYSSA: Rob, something that you had brought up in your breakdown of that as well was the juxtaposition of Yennefer and Geralt’s storylines. This really comes to a head in the final fight scene as well. And, Mitch, as the final fight scene was one of your favorite moments from the episode, can you tell us about that?

MITCH: It was cool. That's all I have to say.

ALYSSA: And we're done.

MITCH: Goodbye, everyone. Thank you for listening. Stay classy.

ROB: Good night, folks.

MITCH: I think, Rob, you mentioned that it is, like, the action climax. But it also juxtapose as well with like the emotional climax of both characters, of both Yennefer and Geralt. You know, this whole scene starts off with Geralt using Ostrit as bait, essentially, so, Geralt can prepare, and he can kind of slow down the striga for a little bit. And then, like, once Geralt leaves, we kind of stay with Ostrit for a bit. And I think this scene is done very, very well. The cutting starts to get really slow. We get these kind of long takes. We get POV shots. So, we’re, like, literally put it into Ostrit’s perspective. So, we're kind of experiencing this moment with him as if we are him.

ROB: We get the alien homage with the umbilical cord falling down from the top of the bed.

MITCH: Yeah.

ROB: It's a really well done sequence.

MITCH: Yeah, I think it does well with, like, putting intention. And it also makes the audience think about, like, the character Ostrit. Like, do we really think that this person should die? Does he deserve to die? There really isn't a right answer to this. Like, we don't know. And, like, a great way to build tension, like, technically, there's a great, like, technique for it called hope plus fear equals tension. If – maybe, if you can put in a small hope that Ostrit may live and get away and also the fear that he's gonna die, they kind of play with your emotions a little bit. So, like, the monster is gone, and he's gonna be fine until a monster, like, eats his innards. That is such gruesome scene, because it's, like, you see this, like, intestines fall out of the stomach and, like, blood splatters on the bed. And it's just so overt. I love it. It's – it's very stylistic, especially for a TV show. Like, I don't see that in a lot of TV shows, especially like monster shows.

ROB: Yeah. You compare it to something like American Horror Story, right, where it would be way more over the top even more so than it is the episode. We will probably see the striga, like, running rummaging through his, like, guts and chewing on them. It would be way more – way more gratuitous I feel like.

MITCH: Yeah. Have you ever seen, like, Peter Jackson's earlier films, like, Bad Taste or something?

ROB: Oh, yeah. Brain Dead. Bad Taste.

MITCH: Like, those movies are just so gory and they're wonderful. Sometimes, that's kind of what these scenes reminded me of. It’s these, like, just over the top gory, blood fests. It manages to be a little tasteful, ecause it's still, like, you know, trying to appeal to a broad audience that they don't want to go completely over the top. But, yeah, so, then we transition into the actual fight. And I think, both with the pacing and actual structure of the fight, there is kind of an ebb and flow and, like, a rhythm to the fight because if it was just, like, constant action, I feel like people would get bored. Even when there is exciting action going on, there can only be so much of it or else people will get a little bored of it. I think this is really done well. In, like, the two towers, there's, like, that big battle at Helm's Deep. But, sometimes, they would cut back to the ends and they talk really slowly. And it's this, like, juxtaposition of, like, fast pace versus slow pace. I think they do that pretty well in this fight, because the fight starts off initially with this kind of, like, old west standoff in the beginning of the fight scene where Geralt swing in his silver chain. And he throws it down the striga. Do you think that he's in power until he's not?

ROB: Oh, yeah, I was gonna say the reveal of the striga also is just perfect, because it just starts with, like, this great candid angle of a skull. And, like, the striga is in the background, you know, out of frame. And it cuts to, like, this close up of her bloody hand after she's kind of slaughtered Ostrit. And then, finally, we get, like, a – you know, a nice close up of her, like, rotted twisted eyeless face and then like her back as she's like walking down the stairs. It's – it's so well done that the actual reveal of the striga is so well done.

MITCH: Yeah. And, since this whole scene is in the night, I think it works even better because it's like – I mean, one, that's a pretty good practical use because it's, like, the production team and the art team, they don't have to be as, you know, realistic with it. They can kind of hide her in shadow and in a bit just to kind of make her even more creepy. I just love it. And, like, yeah, these, like, extra details of her and umbilical cord dragging on the floor, it's so creepy. And then, like, you know, there's also that added tension of like Geralt actually can't kill the striga at all even though he probably easily could since he has a sword, but he never draws it at all. They kind of fight for a bit. I watched this entire scene without any sound to just kind of notice what they were doing with the camera. And it seems like they were primarily focusing on, like, not complete, like, camera motion, but just following the action so it's easy to understand. Like, I know, in the first episode, the camera movements were a little bit more flashy, but I think, in this episode, they kind of dialed it down a little bit. It’s just so they could, like, actually follow the action, because it's already really dark. And I feel like, if they cut a lot, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. And it probably would be very hard to follow. So, I think they did a pretty good job of covering the fight itself.

ROB: Yeah, that's what's so great about the sequence. It’s that it's intercut with Yen’s transformation. We see, like, her being intercut. After the striga tackles Geralt, she breaks from the chain and Geralt’s like, “Oh, fuck.” So, we get this, like, nice little comedic moment. You know, we see Yen's ovaries being removed by the artist. And then we get what I think is the best shot of the whole episode, which is her roaring in pain as we have this, like, roaring flame in the background as she just lets out this guttural, visceral scream that immediately then audio bridges the transition back to the fight scene. That's handheld. And it's quick. And it's intense, right? And Geralt’s punching and throwing, you know, the striga around. And the striga is throwing him around. Yeah. And then we see him actually use his power for the first time. We see him use the Aard sign. What's so great about that sequence is that it's very intense and very claustrophobic. And then, immediately, he uses the Aard and sends the striga flying. And that kind of gives both the characters, like, the combatants in the fight and the audience a bit of, like, breathing room.

MITCH: And then he uses Aard again to break the floor and they both fall through it. There's that great shot where the cameraman, like, literally follows them through the floor.

ALYSSA: Yeah, and the behind the scenes.

ROB: Yeah, that was great.

MITCH: He's, like, connected to a rig. And he, like, falls to the floor with them. That was pretty great. I think, actually, like, Yennefer’s scene and Geralt’s scene are structured similarly, because there is like a very fast, intense moment of the fight. And, once they fall through the floor, there's like a – like a breath. And that's the same with Yennefer, because, like, once her reproductive organs are taken out, there is a little bit of a break when the Aard is just, like, mashing them together and, like, making a potion out of it. She gets a little time to breathe as well. Both of those scenes kind of have a rest point until it get into more intense action. I love how they cut together with both the striga and Yennefer. They both have, like, these, like, very profound screams, which I feel like it's kind of a comparison between the two of them. And, even like how, you know, Yennefer is losing her ability to give birth, “Well, the striga is kind of, like, in a sense being reborn as a new person. The thing that's pretty powerful. Geralt, later on in the fight, he uses another sign, the Yrden sign to lock the door. And he does a little bit more preparations. The scene sets up the stakes even more by showing that his Witcher potions are broken. So, now, he doesn't have that safety net that he had beforehand. So, now, he's just kind of alone. And the striga kind of escapes his line of sight.

ROB: Yeah, we get this great shot where it's a low angle shot of Geralt looking for the crypt. And we see the striga has crawled onto the top of the ceiling like a spider. And—

MITCH: Yeah.

ROB: And it's kind of out of focus. And it's just a really well composed shot. They build tension really well.

MITCH: Mhmm. Because we, as an audience member, know that the striga is above Geralt, but Geralt does not know. So, like, we're like, “Oh, Geralt, turn around. She's right there,” which is a very great way of building tension. Dramatic irony, I think that's what it's called. When the audience knows something but the characters don't. So, yeah, as the fight progresses, the fight builds back up on tension. Geralt has that great moment where he puts on the silver knuckles, which I just love. He gets a little bit of this theme playing and punches her in the face. And the music's great in the scene, because, like, you know, in Geralt’s moments, it's kind of playing his main theme, which is kind of representative of what he does and his main job. But it also transitions beautifully into like Yennefer's theme and her forming into a new person. I mean, as Geralt’s fight starts, you know, the first transformation starts. You can literally see her spine reforming. They really pull no punches here. You can really see, like, everything. And it's really grotesque and visceral.

ROB: I think Alex Garcia Lopez described it in the behind the scenes of this episode as “playing wet.”

MITCH: Yeah.

ROB: Like, he likes all of his actors and set design to be like – you know, when it calls for in the scene, he likes everything to have as much like physicality to it as possible.

MITCH: Yeah.

ROB: And I think, both in the fight with the striga and then also against transformation, I think that's very much clear.

MITCH: Yeah, because it's, like, very dirty things make people uncomfortable, especially when, like, the characters are just absolutely filthy.

ALYSSA: And, toward the end of that sequence, we get, like, a lot of really tight match cuts between Yennefer on the floor and bloodied, as you mentioned, and then also the striga transformed as well.

MITCH: Yeah, it's really interesting how, yeah, right at the end of the episode, it pretty much ends with like two, like, naked women cradled on the floor in completely different conditions, but they're still like both, you know, in pain and both have gone through a major transition in their life. Both have lost something and both have gained something in a big way.

ROB: Yeah, it's a really great linking of both those storylines I think thematically, if not so, narratively, to kind of really hammer home the themes of this episode. It's a good juxtaposition between one woman, Yennefer is kind of taking her destiny into her own hands, and the other is someone who, you know, for better or worse, kind of needs a man like Geralt to kind of allow her to have her freewill given back to her. And I, I think it's interesting, at the end, they're both in very vulnerable positions. It's a good visual storytelling and showing that, even though these women are different now, they both still have a sense of who they were. What happened to them in their past that led up to their transformations is still with them. And it's still going to be a part of them for the rest of their lives. And, especially in the Yen’s case, the trauma of this transformation sequence, ultimately, is what defines her character for the rest of the season and her relationship with Geralt. It's an incredible sequence. In my opinion, I think this is the sequence that does intercutting between two sequences and linking them thematically and narratively the best. It's a really, really beautiful and horrific and well-acted, well shot, well edited, and well scored sequence.

MITCH: And I just love the look on Yennefer's face after she's gone through this whole transformation. She's just lying on the ground. She doesn't really look like she's in triumph at all. I've personally had, like, a couple, like, major surgeries. When you go through something that is that painful and when you're finally, like, rid of it, it doesn't really feel like you are, like, accomplished. It really just feels like, “Oh, my gosh. Did that really just happen?” She kind of feels like she's in shock of what just happened, and I think it's a great moment.

ROB: Yeah, you can tell that she's processing the trauma of the experience for sure.

MITCH: Yeah, it's great. I'd also like to mention how tasteful although nudity has been this show, because I feel like, even in, like, shows like five years ago, like, nudity, especially towards women, can be like very gazy. I don't really think that this show does that. So --

ROB: Well, I think you can tell that a female showrunner is behind the show --

MITCH: Mhmm.

ROB: —in the way that female characters, and female emotions, and female sensibilities are really portrayed. I don't know, if a male showrunner was behind the show, if we would even have scenes of Yennefer's backstory in it to be honest.

MITCH: Yeah.

ROB: And I think that's the best adaptation choice that I think Lauren Hissrich and her writing team made and adapt in The Witcher. It’s that they really focused not just on Geralt in the way that Sapkowski did. They really focused on Yennefer and Ciri as characters and developing them as characters so that, when they are together as characters by the end of the season and presumably at the beginning of the second season, we really, you know, have come to know them as people. And, yeah, I think this episode absolutely justifies those adaptation choices for sure.

MITCH: I think that was a very interesting point about how you said like a male showrunner probably wouldn't have gone through her backstory, because I feel like a male showrunner definitely would have, like, appealed to Yennefer's more mysterious side. They probably would have loved to, like, show off her, like, mysterious character. But I feel like Lauren Hissrich – I feel like she did a really good job of, like, making Yennefer more than just a mysterious sorceress really showing her vulnerability and showing your past. It's great.

ROB: Yeah. And, I'll be honest, I like this interpretation of Yen more so than in Witcher 3, which is how I was first introduced to the character. Like I said, I haven't read the interpretation of her in the books. So, I'm interested in seeing how she's portrayed in the show compares to the books as well.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And that would be the perfect opportunity to talk about some of the differences and comparisons between Sapkowski’s work, the script, and then how it ended up, ultimately, on screen. Before we get to the changes between the books and the television adaptation, we’re going to hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, Rob, Mitch, and I will continue our discussion of “Betrayer Moon.”

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody. Wow, this was surprising and came kind of out of nowhere. There will be another Witcher show on Netflix. We already knew about the animated movie "Nightmare of the Wolf" about Vesemir, but the new show called "The Witcher: Blood Origin" will make the Witcher world even bigger. Let's see what it is all about.

On Twitter, Netflix wrote, “1200 years before Geralt of Rivia, the worlds of monsters, men and elves merged into one, and the first Witcher came to be. Announcing ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin,’ a 6-part live-action The Witcher spin-off series from Declan de Barra and Lauren Schmidt Hissrich."

As you can see, "Blood Origin" will be a prequel spin-off show, consisting of 6 episodes that [are] set way before the events of the main show. Blood Origin's showrunner Declan de Barra is well-known if you've followed the Witcher on Netflix: the Irish TV writer had not only written the main show's episode "Of Banquets, Bastards and Burials"—this is the one with Duny and Pavetta—he also wrote and sung on one of the soundtrack's most iconic songs, "The Song of the White Wolf".

This is what Declan had to say about his new series: "As a lifelong fan of fantasy, I am beyond excited to tell the story ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’. A question has been burning in my mind ever since I first read The Witcher books – What was the Elven world really like before the cataclysmic arrival of the humans? I’ve always been fascinated by the rise and fall of civilizations, how science, discovery, and culture flourish right before that fall. How vast swathes of knowledge are lost forever in such a short time, often compounded by colonization and a rewriting of history. Leaving only fragments of a civilization’s true story behind. ‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’ will tell the tale of the Elven civilization before its fall, and most importantly reveal the forgotten history of the very first Witcher.”

Even Andrzej Sapkowski, Witcher author and creative consultant on "Blood Origin" commented on the new show. He said: "It's wonderful how, as in the original plan, the world of the Witcher is growing bigger." Other people involved include Jason Brown and Sean Daniel from Hivemind, and Tomek Baginski and Jarek Sawko from Platige Films. Beside Declan de Barra and Lauren Hissrich they will all serve as executive producers. Moreover Netflix said the show will be shot in the UK, but we do not know yet when it will be released. Similarly to the shooting schedule on the main Witcher show, it is likely that "Blood Origin" could see a release date in 2022.

But now back to Season 2 of the main show. Redanian Intelligence reported that the pre-production for the restart of the filming process has already begun. This also includes actors like Henry Cavill and Freya Allan. The filming will continue on August 17. According to Redanian Intelligence the filming for Season 2 is currently planned to last until February 2021. This extended filming schedule is of course the result of the necessary precautions due to the coronavirus among other factors.

In other news, we now know what special effects studios will work on Season 2. Platige Image, Cinesite, One of Us, and Clear Angle Studios have already worked on Season 1 and they will return. Moreover two big names have joined them. First, The Third Floor (known for their work on big movies like Rogue One or Spiderman: Far From Home) will work on Season 2 of The Witcher. According to Redanian Intelligence one of the most famous and largest visual effect studios of the world has also joined The Witcher. Industrial Light & Magic will work on Season 2. The studio was founded by George Lucas in 1975 and has since then worked on classic movies franchises like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, or Harry Potter.

Wow, so many good news to report today. Lots of awesome things to look forward to in the realm of The Witcher! Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]

ALYSSA: Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. I’m here with Rob and Mitch discussing “Betrayer Moon” from Season 1 of Netflix’s The Witcher. When we left off, we had discussed the horror atmosphere of the episode and the climactic transformation scenes. Now we’ll jump into the differences between the books and show. The first is how common knowledge the relationship between Foltest and Adda is, the inclusion of Triss Merigold as the second, the relationship between Fringilla and Yennefer is the third. And then the last difference would be Yennefer’s infertility and the origins of it. The first difference that we have is the relationship between Foltest and Adda.  That relationship is still the same in the books, but the difference is how common the knowledge that they were in a relationship is. There's not really any shame about the relationship as well. Like, Foltest is very forward. He's actually the one that is looking for people to cure the striga. So, it's not that he's kind of hiding that the striga is his daughter. Everybody knows it. And he's specifically calling people to the kingdom. So, it's not that Geralt is hearing about it from word of mouth. He picks up one of Foltest’s proclamations and then goes in search of this reward.

MITCH: Yeah. And, Foltest, I won't say he's completely different, but he's definitely changed up quite a bit from the book than he is in the show, because, like, in the book, he's younger. Sapkowski actually points out that he's a pretty guy. He's actually very good looking; maybe even too good looking.

ROB: And Foltest is in the beginning of Witcher 2.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

MITCH: Yes.

ROB: And he is definitely portrayed as younger in that game as well than he is in the show for sure. Yeah, it's interesting that they did cast an older actor for the show. I think – you know, having not read the book, I still think Shaun Dooley I think did a really good job interpreting the character. I think that is interesting though that he is much younger. And I wonder if they made that choice and if you guys can comment on this more. But I wonder if they made that choice because they wanted to have the juxtaposition of how much time is in between Geralt’s storyline and the Yennefer storyline, you know. Maybe that's why they decided to cast an older actor to kind of make it more apparent that a lot of time has passed between the two storylines. One of the major things to know is that the story, The Witcher, came out in 1986. And it was meant to be a standalone short story for that contest in Fantastyka. So, there's, like, some, like, weird little storytelling things that kind of happened. But there was presumably no additional backstory to any of these characters other than what we were told immediately. We do hear, in the original text, that Foltest is meant to be younger than 40. I think it's a pretty plausible theory that they might have just aged him up in order to, you know, show the difference between Yennefer and Geralt’s timelines.

MITCH: Yeah. And I feel like the purpose that the Witcher short story and this episode, they have to serve completely different purposes because, for a lot of people, The Witcher is the very first thing that they read in the entire Witcher saga. Not only does it have to tell the story, but it also has to introduce Geralt as a character. It has to introduce the world. It has to introduce so many things – aspects of the entire world. And this episode doesn't have to do that. So, it can play around with the plot more, because, in the book, everything is pretty much just revealed to Geralt at once. He doesn't really have to do any investigating. He pretty much already knows how to lift the curse.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

MITCH: While, in the episode, he and Triss have to investigate. It is kind of like a Scooby-Doo episode, where they have to take out clues and, like, Geralt has to figure out how to lift the curse even if it is a curse. At first, they don't even think it is a striga. It's a Vukodlak.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And that is like a really nice segue into the discussion of, like, why Triss might be in the episode at all. She does serve as kind of a guide for Geralt while he's in Temeria. But, also, ultimately we’re introduced to her character much earlier than we could have been. As an audience, we get investment into Triss before she has importance in later episodes.

MITCH: Yeah, because, not to get into any spoilers, but like, in, like, later books, when Geralt and Triss, like, see each other, they, like, imply that they have a history. And I feel like they wanted to show that they had a history rather than, like, tell us that they had history. So, I feel like they definitely wanted to include Triss in one of Geralt’s adventures. You know, since Triss is in Temeria and this story takes place in Temeria, I feel like they felt like this was a very opportune point to put her in the story.

ROB: Yeah. And I'm trying to remember. Does Triss ever become a adviser to Foltest in the books or the games?

MITCH: Yes, she is.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think she's natively from Temeria as well. And she is an advisor to Foltest.

ROB: Okay, that would make sense then why they would push up that reveal to now to kind of establish that earlier like you said Alyssa. It’s just Triss certainly a more important character in the games I feel like—

MITCH: Mhmm.

ROB: —than she is in the books even from the limited knowledge that I know.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

ROB: And I – so, I think it's interesting that they're kind of trying to, like you said, establish her earlier on in the show to kind of get people who not only are more familiar with the games maybe a little bit more invested, but to also, in a way, set her up for future seasons and future episodes of the show where her character becomes prominent and her relationship with Yennefer and Geralt becomes more prominent. And I think the actress, Anna Shaffer, she brings a real sense of I guess like humaneness and, like – I’m trying to find the right word. But I think she does a really good sense of, like, the calming influence of Triss while also having a little bit of feistiness as well. I think she does a really good job of portraying the character in this episode.

MITCH: Yeah, I think it's always been like a trademark for Triss that she's usually a little bit more emotionally available than all the other sorceresses. Yeah.

ALYSSA: You know, despite the differences with both Triss and Foltest, their characters in the show are, like, very much self-contained. Like, if you don't have the comparison to the books, they still work within the context and the fiction of the show, which is nice.

ROB: Yeah. Like I said, I haven't read the short stories. So, for me, yeah, it made total sense like, “Oh, he's a king. Triss is his sorceress advisor.” I was like, “Okay. Cool.” This is her, like, cool little introduction where she uses her powers to kind of rope Geralt in into helping her helping Temeria.

MITCH: Mhmm. And Triss does also serve a pretty good function for the end of the episode, because, in The Last Wish, when Geralt gets injured by the striga, he has to, like, heal up at the Temple of Melitele for, like, literally, the rest of the book. And Triss is able to heal him right there and then so he can, like, continue on his journey. That was a good way of using her character to save Geralt there.

ALYSSA: Yeah, because we don't have the character Velerad, the castellan of Vizima here.

MITCH: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: But Triss kind of takes over that role. So, there is some consolidation of characters along the way.

MITCH: Yeah.

ALYSSA: But, going back to, let's say, her placement in Foltest’s court, we learn about the origins of why that is because we see that happen with Yennefer and Fringilla in Yennefer’s storyline. So, we hear how those decisions are made amongst the Brotherhood of Sorcerers between influential sources on the continent, including Tissaia de Vries, Stregobor from Ban Ard, and Fringilla’s uncle for example. One of the key differences in this whole series is that, you know, without spoilers, in the books, Fringilla and Yennefer don't really have an existing relationship such as being classmates. Nilfgaard, in the books, is very much separated from the events of the Northern Kingdoms, like, including jurisdiction under the Brotherhood of Sorcerers. So, in the books, I would argue that, like, the chapter wouldn't have had the power to place anyone in Nilfgaard in this way. But, again, like, because of the fiction that they're creating around the version of the continent that's in the show, it still works. So, I think it's fine that it happens that way, but, like, in the books, they just don't have an existing relationship.

ROB: And I think it makes sense in the show to create that relationship, because then it creates more tension and conflict later on between those two characters, whereas, if that relationship wasn't there, there wouldn't really be any emotional conflict or tension later on when those two characters come to interact with each other. So, I think that was a smart choice to kind of have these characters in this space. And, while you're also developing Yen's backstory, you're developing Fringilla’s backstory as well and their interactions together. And, not to spoil later episodes, but there will be stuff that’s set up in this episode that's paid off in future episodes.

ALYSSA: Yeah, seeing them in the exact same origin, gives you a baseline to see how far they diverged in the rest of the season. The last comparison to the books would be about Yennefer's infertility and the infertility of sorcerers on the continent as a whole. And, in the books, there's really no clear reason for infertility in sorcerers that's defined. We learn in A Question of Pricing and Something More that sorcerers as well as witchers can't have children. And we learn in the Bounds of Reason and Something More that Yennefer’s infertility is an upsetting character trait for her. But the decision to remove her reproductive organs was something that's original to the show. In the books, it's not necessarily that she doesn't have them. It could also be that, for whatever reason, their longevity prevents it. Their use of magic might prevent it. We don't really get that life force in exchange for magic, which is on brand for Sapkowski because he kind of, like, half makes up things. And then they're just not really explained. So, it makes sense that, like, the show would have to kind of explain the physics and metaphysics of the world.

MITCH: Yeah, I'm assuming, if somebody asked him specifically, like, why can't Yennefer have children, he probably be like, “She can't have children. That's it.”

ALYSSA: And, yeah, like that – that would kind of be that.

ROB: Yeah. I mean, like I said, I haven't read the books. But I will say, from the limited knowledge and the limited passages of the books that I've read and episodes of the podcast that I've listened to that you've done, Alyssa, I feel like the show treats its female characters a lot better in some ways than Sapkowski does just because a lot of the portrayals of women are framed only through Geralt’s kind of male gaze, whereas, in the show, you can tell that it's being framed through a female gaze, through Lauren's gaze. Once, again, not spoil future episodes, but I think the adaptation choices they make for some of the female characters later on in the season I think are more interesting and kind of give some of the female characters later on in the story more depth and dimension.

ALYSSA: Mhmm. And we're really gonna see I think the agency of different females a lot in the next episode of Banquets, Bastards, and Burials when we get to see all different sorts have women in power. Let me put it that way.

ROB: Absolutely. I feel like this episode is a great template for what this show could be when it's firing on all cylinders. I hope that – for Season II, that every single episode of it can be as strong as this episode. I want to give props to everyone that was involved in this episode and its creation. Everyone did a really fantastic job from the director and the writer to the cast and crew. I felt they all did a really fantastic job.

MITCH: Yeah, this was a very well made episode. Like, I've read a lot of, like, reviews and stuff. And a lot of people say, like, once they watched this episode, they were pretty much hooked on the show, which makes me really happy because I feel, like – in my friend group, specifically, I feel, like, I've been alone in my Witcher fandom. But, like – like, I've really loved this. You know, seeing these stories go more into the public limelight and more of a mainstream story. And I think that's great, because I just think it's such a great story.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And I'm really grateful that we were able to take a look at such an important key episode, especially through the lens of, like, editing and how these stories come together in order to create something that is engaging. And that really creates something new for the audience. So, that is it for our show today. Mitch, Rob, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. And thank you to our hanza for listening. So, where can people find you? And is there anything that our community can help you with or anything that you'd like to share with them?

ROB: You can find me on YouTube. And this is an old username that I haven't changed. So, please don't laugh, listeners, but it's a youtube.com/Jedifan421.

MITCH: Nice.

ALYSSA: We're into it.

ROB: That's where I have a lot of edited videos. I actually have a video uploaded that basically takes scenes from the first season of The Witcher and edits them in a similar style to The Witcher 3. So, that is up on my YouTube channel. It's called Netflix's The Witcher, but it's the Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. So, yeah, you can check that out. And you can check out my Twitter for leftist political retweets and Fox and occasional musings on entertainment and pop culture like the Witcher. And that is @DoctorPigott. That's D-O-C-T-O-R-P-I-G-O-T-T.

MITCH: Well, currently, right now, you can find me – if you like listening to me in this podcast form, I am on another podcast called the Lights, Camera, Roll, which is a DnD podcast. And I am one of the characters in it. So, if you want to listen to me on that, it's Lights, Camera, Roll. We're on Spotify. We're also on YouTube. And I think we're on, like, Apple podcasts and all that – any of your podcasts platforms. You can also follow me on Twitter also for leftist political musings and random entertainment rants. It’s usually me just complaining about Raging Against the Machine or something. But that is @MitchFey, M-I-T-C-H-F-E-Y. That's my info.

ROB: Thanks for having us. Alyssa.

MITCH: Yeah. Thank you so much.

ALYSSA: Yeah, of course. This has been incredibly insightful into the world of editing. So, thank you guys so much for bringing your expertise to this episode. Next episode, we'll be joined by Shaun from Northern Ireland and Christiaan from South Africa and Canada to discuss Geralt’s destined surprise in our coverage of Episode 4: “Of Banquets, Bastards, and Burials.”

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with the Breakfast in Beauclair theme by MojoFilter Media and the “Tidings from Toussaint” theme by Bettina Campomanes.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Julie, Sylvia of Skellige, Jamison, Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Jacob Meeks, Sebastian von Novigrad, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, Louis (like Vuitton), The Original Roach, AerialKitty, TheOneTrueChef, and Dustin.

Special thanks to Rob P. and Mitch for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil

 

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