Ep. 16 — "The End's Beginning" from Netflix's The Witcher

Cyprian from Berlin and Reza from Australia join Alyssa from GoodMorhen to discuss “The End’s Beginning”, the opening episode in season one of Netflix’s The Witcher. Very important bits include: a break down of the closing fight scene; comparisons to Andrzej Sapkowski’s original source material, “The Lesser Evil”; discussion of themes such as medieval lighting, warfare, and the effect of public perception; we bring shame upon the name Caldemeyn the alderman; and debate the classic question, “Ey! What’s an ultimatum!?”

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

ALYSSA: I haven’t recorded since, like, February. This feels so exciting and so good!

REZA: Yeah, I’m excited! Let’s go!

Introduction

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across The Continent.

[Welcome]

Hope you all enjoyed the new remastered Breakfast in Beauclair theme song courtesy of Alex at MojoFilter Media!

It’s been quite the season break. My parents and I never did take that vacation that I told you about on the last episode, but I have had the time this last three months to reset ahead of this new season. And I’ve got quite the content plan for you all. In Season 2 of Breakfast in Beauclair, we’ll be going around the world with guests from Germany, Australia, the US, the Netherlands, Canada & South Africa, Northern Ireland, Austria, England, and Argentina discussing the first season of Netflix’s The Witcher. This is a moment that I’ve been waiting nearly two years for, so stick around for Episode 19, where I tell you a little about that journey.

An exciting new companion project for these Netflix episodes is a new social segment called “Around The Table”, in which we, well, go around the Beauclair breakfast table with other Witcher content creators sharing facts and tidbits about the production and the real life history, folklore, and culture behind the show. You’ll hear some familiar voices such as Lars from Witcherflix, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, Anita and Karolina of Witcher Kitchen, Cyprian from this episode, and newcomer to the show, Brett from Whispers of Oxenfurt! Subscribe to the Breakfast in Beauclair channel on YouTube, where those videos will premiere on off-weeks from the podcast starting Thursday, June 11th.

I’ll also be, you know, doing my best to make sure that transcripts are up for every episode at upload. Thanks to Krizia and Rachelle, you can go to breakfastinbeauclair.com/listen and find the full transcript for this episode right now! On the episode page, you can also find links to things that we mention throughout the episode, such as the two fight scene breakdowns we reference in the second half, as well as the sources from Lars’ segment, “Tidings from Toussaint”.

[Patron Announcements]

Some of you may have seen my posts across social a few weeks ago, which announced that I will be donating the first three episodes of the season to our community. What this means is I won’t be charging patrons for these episodes and the usually patron-exclusive bonus content will be accessible to everyone for Episodes 16, 17, and 18. So! I’ll be welcoming new patrons to the show starting with Episode 19.

Shout out to our current producer-level patrons: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Mahakam Elder Joe, Julie, Sylvia of Skellige, Jamison, Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Jacob Meeks, and Sebastian von Novigrad.

To access the free bonus content for this episode, head over to patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair after Saturday, June 6th.

[Episode Details]

As for this episode, our friends Cyprian from Berlin and Reza from Australia call in to discuss the opening of Netflix’s The Witcher, Episode 101 “The End’s Beginning.” Join us as we break down the closing fight scene, draw comparisons to Andrzej Sapkowski’s “The Lesser Evil”, discuss themes such as the effect of public perception, bring shame upon the name “Caldemeyn the alderman”, and debate the classic question, “Ey! What’s an ultimatum!?”

In our mid-episode news segment “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares a ton of casting news and production updates for Season 2 of Netflix’s The Witcher.

Without further ado, let’s get to the discussion for The Witcher Episode 101, “The End’s Beginning.”

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa and joining us today are Reza from Melbourne and our returning friend, Cyprian from Berlin! Hey, guys.

CYPRIAN: Hey.

REZA: Hey, how are you doing?

ALYSSA: I'm good. How are you?

REZA: Not too bad.

CYPRIAN: Great. Great. Glad to be back.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, Cyprian, you and I have actually met since your first time on the show. Uh, back in January, I got to go to Berlin and actually meet you and Lars in person.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, exactly. That was pretty fun. I mean you sent us a message that you were planning to join the trip to Berlin. So, yeah, but it was exciting. Great to meet you. Yeah. I hope you liked Berlin.

ALYSSA: Oh, I loved it. You know, some of the most memorable experiences of that trip was you taking me, my friend, and Lars, and his girlfriend around Berlin and just showing us, I guess, everything that the city has to offer. And it was such a wonderful experience that I wouldn't have gotten from anywhere else. I think, after I came back, I was like, “Oh, my God, if any of the listeners go to Berlin, go find Cyprian.” It was really neat. So, thank you so much for that experience.

CYPRIAN: Oh, you're more than welcome. It was a great pleasure. I love talking about the city. But! That was just a fraction of what we could have seen. So, it was by far not everything. So, next time you're here, we can continue.

ALYSSA: I'll have to go back for sure. Cyprian, actually, the last time that you were on Breakfast in Beauclair back in September, we talked about this story “The Lesser Evil.”

CYPRIAN: Yeah, I was excited to have the opportunity to be back for the Netflix adaptation of said story. Because, again, it's like really one of my favorite stories if not my favorite short story in the Witcher. It's great. I mean I'm just happy they–they chose to do it at all. You know, it really sets a good tone for the start of the series just to introduce the world as a whole you know. And the moral of the story is really brilliant.

ALYSSA: And Reza, for you, this is your first time on the show. Could you tell our listeners a little bit about you and who you are and where you're from?

REZA: It is my first time! Firstly, big hello to the hanza. I’m here down under, in Australia. It took us a while to get the, uh, time zones figured out.

CYPRIAN: Oh, yeah.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, that's been a fun thing to schedule because I'm obviously here in New York,  Cyprian, as I said, is in Berlin, and Reza is in Melbourne. So, we've got about a 14, 15 hour time difference. It's currently 7:00 in the morning for me. I think about 2:00 in the afternoon for Cyprian. And then, for Reza, it's 9:00 at night. So, it's been fun.

REZA: Yeah. Anyway, I was introduced to the Witcher through the games. So, naturally, I wanted to, like, learn a bit more about the Witcher. So, that kind of led me to the books. Outside of The Witcher life, I study aerospace engineering. I just graduated. And I’ve started my Ph.D.

CYPRIAN: Exciting.

REZA: Yeah. I mean... that's me.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Just because I'm genuinely very curious, could you tell us – Explain Like I'm Five, aerospace engineering and, I guess, what you're doing for your Ph.D. and what the ultimate goal is for you in your career?

REZA: Explain it like I’m five... magic goes over on top of the wing. [Laughs] But, uh, yeah, I've focused mostly on the rockets. Taken that, uh, space angle.

CYPRIAN: Oh, wow.

REZA: Yeah. Big stuff. Unfortunately, it's not too big in Australia at the moment. But it is kind of taking off. No pun intended. But, yeah, mostly just space stuff is my domain.

CYPRIAN: Sounds exciting.

REZA: Pretty cool so far.

ALYSSA: I'm like I don't know what else to ask about it, because I'm so out of my league.

CYPRIAN: Well, so am I. I mean it's literally the opposite direction. I'm going back in time, he's going to the future. For anyone who doesn't know, I study history, actually. So, yeah. What got you into, like, studying space? How does one get into that?

REZA: I don't know to be honest. I mean I kind of like the engineering side of things and just, kind of, how things work. In terms of the space part, I guess, just like looking at galaxies and stuff like that.

CYPRIAN: Looking at the stars, ey? 

REZA: Yeah. And then just kind of merged that with fixing things or designing things. And it's good. I think I made the right choice.

ALYSSA: I have the biggest smile on my face listening because I'm getting so excited.

REZA: Yeah, I'm excited every day. In five years time, could be on Mars. Who knows?

CYPRIAN: I can't wait.

ALYSSA: Today, we’ll be discussing “The End’s Beginning,” the first episode in Netflix’s first season of The Witcher. This episode adapts Andrzej Sapkowski’s short story “The Lesser Evil” from The Last Wish, in which the witcher, Geralt of Rivia, must set aside his beliefs and neutrality in order to choose the lesser evil. Meanwhile, the kingdom of Cintra falls to invading Nilfgaardian forces. One of the few survivors is it’s fleeing princess, Cirilla. In this opening episode, we enter the world of the Witcher for the first time. The first scene that opens the series is a swamp fight. We, as an audience, start off in an area of, like, suspense. And it establishes, not only our main character Geralt of Rivia but also the baseline of normalcy for the world at large. What did you guys think of this swamp fight?

CYPRIAN: I loved it.

REZA: Yeah, I thought it was a really good hook into the episode. You kind of need that, and I think it hit the spot.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, brilliant. It was just genuinely surprising. You know, it just comes out of nowhere. Boom. In your face. Like, you know, a kikimora.

REZA: Jumpscare.

CYPRIAN: Exactly, with the music. Everything. Perfect, perfect start for me. I mean, I was just instantly hooked. It just goes to show, like, it's better to show, not to tell, if that's possible. You know, they could easily just, like, done a scene where somebody is talking or he's talking to somebody, “Oh, you're a Witcher. Blah, blah, blah.” Instead, they just throw in this scene and just show what he's all about – what he's doing. It's great.

ALYSSA: In the following scenes, Geralt looks for the alderman of this town called Blaviken. He enters an inn and faces discrimination by the barkeep and by a number of men in the bar and then has a brief conversation with a woman who introduces herself as Renfri.

REZA: It kind of sets the mood. You walk into this setting. Everyone was just kind of hostile towards him. And, when I read the books, I didn't really understand everyone's hatred towards him, because, if a witcher is there to kind of defend humanity, why would they be angry at him? There’s this designated hatred towards witchers for some reason or another. And, yeah, I think it really demonstrates how this world is just dark, gloomy, and just dangerous.

CYPRIAN: First thing I noticed about the interior is, uh, the lighting. Apart from it just looking good, it's kind of authentic. I mean I always get a little bit of cringe if I see like torches and everything in interiors, because, yeah, fun fact, that wasn't a thing back then. People actually used, like, candles, oil lamps. I don't know if you ever had a torch, like, it just produces black smoke. That's just not feasible, you know. They just have candles all around. And that way you light an interior. So, I, I actually really like that. The scene gets some points for that from me.

ALYSSA: I think as Cyprian said, it does a nice job of showing and not telling here. We could have been told about the animosity toward witchers, their history, and their place in the world, and their purpose. Instead, we do really just get to see that prejudice upfront. Their dialogue here explicitly talks about – they don't like him because he's a witcher. It's a nice way of world-building and establishing this specific character’s place in it. In terms of Renfri, she becomes, like, an incredibly crucial part, not only of this specific story and this episode but also of the entire season as a whole. The effects of Geralt’s encounter with her impact his actions throughout the rest of the series as we'll see. Obviously, we know a little bit about how the story will end, because we've read the books. But, when Renfri first appeared on screen, what did you guys think about her?

CYPRIAN: Good casting. I don't know. It just – it just fits somehow for me. I don't know. Just like the shorter hair, and it's kind of like I imagined her in my head. So, great.

REZA: Yeah, it's strange. It's a spitting image of what I had in my head as well.

CYPRIAN: Really?

REZA: Yeah. I don't know. I mean ex-princess… now, brigand. 

CYPRIAN: Yeah.

REZA: I don't know. Her approach in the scene, it parallels everything else going on. I mean, everyone's hostile towards him and then here she is.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

CYPRIAN: Mhmm.

REZA: It’s almost like she wants something or she finds comfort with him. So, it is quite interesting.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I had the same thought too when it came to Renfri. Based on what I know about her from the books, I was incredibly surprised at, kind of, how unassuming and normal she is and how kind she is, I think, in this instance as well. It was just so normal. I guess I was really surprised at, like, how easy the interaction was between her and Geralt and how inviting she was to him. But I guess, as you said, Reza, she probably wants something as we'll find out later.

CYPRIAN: I think maybe what they chose to do is, like, she's really commanding. Like, she just called her people back when they confront Geralt. She, like, orders the waiter around. And she's very commanding, you know, which is, yeah. I mean maybe surprising given the setting. 

ALYSSA: Yeah, it's definitely effective. And we'll continue to see how her character develops and how we learn more about it through Geralt’s eyes throughout the episode as well. In the next few scenes, Geralt meets Marilka, who refers him to bring the kikimora to Master Irion. And, at Master Irion’s tower, this turns out to be a sorcerer named Stregobor. Stregobor tells Geralt about the Curse of the Black Sun and asks him to kill Renfri.

CYPRIAN: We arrive at Stregobor’s place.

REZA: Stregobor’s crib. 

CYPRIAN: Yeah. I mean he has quite a – quite a home, doesn't he?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. I mean the interior is beautiful. I don't know if you guys been to Malta. There’s, like, still the grandmaster’s palace. This whole courtyard reminds me of it very much. And it's beautiful. Of course, on Malta, there are naked women walking around. But they're also like orange trees there. And, in the courtyard, it looks really beautiful. Yeah. We get to know Stregobor, who was our first mage. Exciting!

ALYSSA: As you’ve said, the interior is incredibly beautiful. It's really cool to see some of the behind-the-scenes work that went into the CGI when it came to creating that garden. Um, it does feel very much like an adult Willy Wonka playhouse.

CYPRIAN: Oh, yeah. It’s a good way of putting it.

ALYSSA: Yeah, but it's very beautiful. And the outside is incredibly stark. Blaviken itself is very grim, which contrasts beautifully with the interior of this tower because everything is lush. It's green. It's warm.

CYPRIAN: And it's so bright, right? I mean especially in contrast to the tavern we've been to. I mean it's just so bright.

REZA: Yeah, I guess that kind of added to Geralt’s suspicion that he's hiding from something.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

REZA: That he's just created his own world.

CYPRIAN: I just want to touch again on Stregobor himself. I mean, again, I think the casting here is really spot on. Also, what I like to touch on, just in the first episode, because this is the point I really admire – and not just in this episode but in every episode – the costumes of the mages. Even though they may not be just that accurate for the medieval period itself, they, certainly, have more modern elements here and there. But I think that is actually really appropriate because it just elevates the mages and shows that they're, like, a class of their own. They’re like the upper class or whatever. They are not ordinary folk. Just really beautifully done. So, job well done.

ALYSSA: When Lars and I were in Lucca, we got to go to the costume exhibition that they had for the Lucca Comics Games Festival. And it was so cool, you know, seeing all the costumes. They did put a lot of incredible work into the costuming for this. And I think as you said, like, it really paid off on screen and it looks very beautiful. I think the other thing that Stregobor’s presence here establishes for first-time viewers is not only that, you know, mages are another class of people in terms of what they have, how they appear, but also how influential they are in the course of local and, as we'll see, global or continental politics.

CYPRIAN: Right. Right. And that’s actually really, like, authentic, in my mind. I mean just imagine if we had mages in our world, of course, they would be influential. Again, sorry. If you look back at history, the clergy, how powerful it was, especially here in Europe. They are basically like the clergy, but with real powers. Like, they can really heal people. They can really do all this stuff. So, you would imagine they would be really influential. And I really liked this setup, like, in the witcher world as a whole.

REZA: Stregobor does mention The Curse of the Black Sun, the girls he's done an autopsy on. But he also mentioned, like, internal mutations, which seemed to confuse Geralt a bit.

ALYSSA: He also talks about how destructive the girls associated with that curse are. He ends up using that information to try to persuade Geralt into killing Renfri for him. So, the conversation between Stregobor and Geralt is the establishment of themes such as the lesser evil and destiny. I guess, in the context of the Netflix show, could you guys talk about what this means and what he's asking for?

CYPRIAN: [Overlapping] You want to go ahead?

REZA: [Overlapping] You want to go first, Cyprian?

[Laughter]

REZA: We hear Geralt’s speech at the end and how he doesn't really have a spectrum of evil. And we kind of see how it's testing his morality. I think that's the main idea of the lesser evil in this context.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. I mean, see, that's why I really like this episode and this short story, because it's just such a heavy moral decision to make. Can you justify killing someone? Some may argue yes, some may argue no. I mean Geralt, I think, is on the side that it's always the wrong move to do if you can avoid it, of course. As Geralt does, he just stumbles into the situation. He didn't ask for any of that. And, now, he just has to choose? Stregobor says, like, “Yeah. It's the fate of the North. And are you willing to risk that?” Implying that thousands of people will die and kingdoms will fall and everything. And Geralt is a bit skeptical because, like, how can one person just do that much harm, right? It's ironic because, like, Geralt is – he's human, but people don't see him that way. I mean they call them all kinds of names, but the most humane response comes from him. Again, this is the first episode. It’s only 15 minutes in, and we have this really heavy dialogue actually about this decision he supposedly has to make. As Reza said, it just sets Geralt’s moral compass.

ALYSSA: As we spoke about on Episode 3 of the podcast, the moral philosophy behind the lesser evil really comes down to the trolley problem. Does Geralt kill one person in exchange for dozens or hundreds of people? At the end of it, we get this short monologue from Geralt about there's no such thing as a lesser evil in Geralt’s case and he'd rather not choose at all. The inclination toward neutrality—in this case—it ends up being the inclination toward an activity. It really drives the plot for the rest of the episode.

CYPRIAN: It's not even as clear cut as the trolley problem, because he has to take Stregobor’s word for it. The only thing he has is Stregobor saying, “Look, if you don't kill her, she will kill me and everyone. And the apocalypse and everything will go to shit.” Like – and Geralt looks at him like, “Are you sure? Like, are you not exaggerating a bit here just to save your own skin?” But, um – so, it's even hazier than that.

REZA: Yeah, I think it's just hypocritical. I mean, assuming we take Stregobor as a human too, he’s just slapping the word monster on Renfri’s name.

CYPRIAN: Right.

REZA: I mean witchers are there to kill the monsters, but then they’re shunned for it.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I think that's a really lovely layer to point out to this dilemma, Cyprian. The idea of trust, like, he has to take Stregobor’s word for it. Meanwhile, he met Renfri. So, does Stregobor’s word overpower things that he's actually experienced with Renfri herself? That still doesn't really help Geralt in, kind of, trying to figure out what the baseline truth is.

CYPRIAN: Stregobor is a stranger to him. It's just like somebody who isn't, like, your family member or your best friend who you trust blindly, just tells you all these different things. And, now, you have to make a decision, right?

ALYSSA: In the following few scenes, Renfri approaches Geralt at a stream, proposing him a counter-offer. Geralt urges her to leave her revenge behind and leave Blaviken. A couple scenes later, Geralt monologues to Roach about his morality. Renfri approaches and overhears and tells Geralt that she’s going to leave. They sleep together, we overhear Renfri’s prophecy as Geralt dreams, and then he wakes alone in the woods.

CYPRIAN: Well, you touched on Renfri’s revenge. What about – what does she want revenge for?

REZA: It was just Renfri’s and Stregobor’s history. Well, we only heard one side of the story from Stregobor that she's, like, the most evil person ever. But then we hear her side. He's sent someone out, and they've done the most horrible thing to her. You can kind of begin to see where each of their hatred for each other is coming from. And I think it just puts Geralt in just a spiral.

CYPRIAN: She was just driven out of her home because of the day she was born, she loses all of her possessions, her family, everything. Stregobor sent someone out to hunt her down. And, before he did the deed, he also raped her. And that's when she took the opportunity and killed him and got away. Since then, she has this vendetta against Stregobor for, essentially, taking everything away from her. This is why the Witcher and the story in particular is so great. First, you get this one-sided story from Stregobor. And I mean you can see his reasoning. That's the main point, right? He has some reasoning, some logic. Then you get to see Renfri’s point of view. You get to talk to her, and she tells her whole story. And you just feel bad for her. And I mean how can you not? And all because of what? Because of the day she was born on? You can’t – you have hardly any evidence for the claims of Stregobor. You can also see her motive. But what does she want to do? She wants to kill Stregobor instead. So, it's, again, this theme of can you justify killing somebody? Both of these people have their motives. What's the deciding factor? Who has the better motive? Who had suffered the most from the other. It’s just crazy. And I don't blame Geralt not wanting to choose at all, because it's just shit on both sides.

ALYSSA: And the thing is Geralt is now plagued with this decision. Renfri returns by the next scene. And then she tells him, “You don't have to worry about this. I'm going to leave.” And, now, Geralt is seemingly relieved of the decision to choose between Stregobor and Renfri. You know, they sleep together. We get this, kind of, weird hazy prophecy dream thing. Something about like a girl in the woods. And then Geralt wakes up, and he's by himself. And he realizes that Renfri is about to do something.

CYPRIAN: His spidey sense are tingling. 

REZA: His witcher senses.

CYPRIAN: The force. Destiny! He just knows, right? I don’t know. That would be the noble thing to do, wouldn't it? For Renfri to just forgive Stregobor? If you look at it, I mean, sure, all these horrible things had happened to her. She has just been on the run with these vagabonds all her adult life, chasing Stregobor, and that's all she has been doing. As Geralt said, just go and live your life finally.

REZA: Yeah, I guess Geralt kind of feels for her. He was talking to Roach about one of his experiences in the past, where he saved a girl being raped near Kaer Morhen.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. 

REZA: I think he kind of understands where she's coming from. He hears Stregobor’s point of view. And it's just kind of this prophecy. Stregobor didn’t really sell to him, but he can really see her firsthand experience. So, I think he can just relate to Renfri more.

CYPRIAN: That's a good point. That's a good point. And, actually, maybe he sees in Renfri, like, she has a choice. She can just walk away, which he may not be able to. He is a mutant. He is a witcher. And that will never change. So, maybe he even envies her and tells her, “Hey, take the chance you have, which I don't have. Just don't be – just don't be silly.”

REZA: Yeah.

ALYSSA: You know it's often said that the best revenge is, like, a life well-lived, right? At the same time, it's like who are we to say that, like, her revenge isn't justified based on what she suffered?

REZA: Yeah, I think she does bring it up with Geralt – what you just said. She kind of asked him, “Why don't you just kind of lash out and take revenge?” And he says, “Well if I do, I become what they're calling me.”

CYPRIAN: Yeah, exactly. That, that was a brilliant line.

REZA: Yeah. And I think it really sticks with her. I assumed she really meant she was gonna leave, but, I mean, yeah.

ALYSSA: “But.” Yep, there it is.

CYPRIAN: We will see how that goes. But, see, it's complicated. That's why I love this story.

REZA: Yeah.

CYPRIAN: You can make an argument for, for every side. Even no side. I mean, Geralt’s neutrality, which he tries to stick to. But, again, we will see in a minute how that goes.

ALYSSA: In the morning, Geralt enters the market. And he's attacked by Renfri’s bandits. After he kills them all, Renfri and Geralt fight one on one. And, eventually, he kills her.

REZA: Personally, I saw his respect for Renfri and his hatred for the people calling him a monster come out. You see it through how brutal the scene was. But then, with Renfri, he was just constantly on the defensive until she, kind of, just lashed out. And that, ultimately, led to her death. But I think the two fights are separated for a reason in the book too. And I think it really does bring out that dichotomy.

CYPRIAN: It's important to note here that Geralt gets attacked with an – what was it? A crossbow, right?

ALYSSA: It was a crossbow. Yeah.

CYPRIAN: He doesn't have a choice. All the chaos unfolds. I actually really like the fighting scene just for what it is. Again, it might not be most realistic in some regards. I just like it because the choreography as a whole. I mean it's fast. It's violent. It's brutal. It just fits the theme. You know, it fits the world. The gloves are coming off. It’s mental, you know. And he just – he just runs through these guys like butter. We have the first scene with the Kikimora fight, which is badass. But this is a group fight. This is another dynamic. This doesn't seem to be a problem for him anyway. So, for any new viewers, they just see, like, what Geralt is capable of, and it's a lot.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, so, I don't do really well with gore, um, at all and—

CYPRIAN: Wow.

REZA: Jesus Christ. That scene.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, the first time I watched this, I just couldn't. I just let it play. And then, when it got to Renfri’s, I'll admit I ended up just skipping the scene entirely. 

CYPRIAN: Really?

REZA: Oh, no. 

ALYSSA: I was like, “Oh, this isn't gonna be good.” Yeah. It just stressed me out a lot. I've seen the scene of the bandit fight a number of times. I still can't get through Renfri’s fight. It stresses me out a lot.

REZA: Yeah, there's a lot of points where she just nips him. It's like, “Oh, my god.”

ALYSSA: Yeah. I think that's one of the important things about splitting up the scenes. We get this first fight between Geralt and this gang. As you said Cyprian, Geralt just runs through them like butter. They just get completely overpowered by one person. And then we see, in the following sequence, Geralt’s one-on-one fight with Renfri. She's an equal match for him, I think, unexpectedly.

CYPRIAN: Or is she?

REZA: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: Oh. Ooh! That’s true.

REZA: There you go. 

CYPRIAN: This goes to show, again, he's not trying his hardest. He doesn't actually want to kill her.

REZA: Yeah.

CYPRIAN: I mean I'm not saying that that's the case. I mean, I don't know how good Renfri is.

REZA: I'm pretty sure he was on the defensive for the first part of the fight.

ALYSSA: Yeah, he was. I think Henry Cavill even says as much in a behind the scenes, which we'll talk about later. I think that's also a good point.

CYPRIAN: And I'm watching the scene right now as we speak. And what I noticed right now, again, is Henry just incorporates also grappling techniques and stuff like that, which looks really good. And is quite authentic. So, that's also great. Towards the end of their fight, he disarms her and has her at – I just – I wanted to say gunpoint for a second but. He has his sword by her throat. And he doesn't outright kill her like these bandits. He actually even lowers his sword after that. He doesn't kill her outright. So, that's important for him not wanting to kill her actually.

REZA: But he doesn't do that to the other guys.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, exactly. He just slaughters them. But do we know why these guys are there in the market in the first place? He just comes up there, and they just say, “Hey, you have to choose. It's an ultimatum.” And then he just gets shot at.

ALYSSA: Yeah. It's not really clear here to be honest. I think you outlined pretty much what we know, Cyprian. An ultimatum for what though? They're just like, “You got to choose. It's an ultimatum.” And then –

CYPRIAN: “Fuck.”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

REZA: Yeah.

ALYSSA: He doesn't actually attack them first.

CYPRIAN: No. No.

ALYSSA: So, he's not the one that's actually making the decision. And then that's when he actually gets into the fray.

REZA: Yeah, I wonder if they could have just stood there all day.

CYPRIAN: Yeah.

REZA: Yeah, they’re just provoking him. I guess they just assumed he was gonna attack. But, at that point, if you deflect an arrow, why would you even mess with the guy?

CYPRIAN: Well, that's just a theme I mean really common throughout the whole, like, of Witcher books and games. Like, why do people keep attacking him? Like, if some guy just, like, corners three guys and sets their corpses on fire with Igni, I think word would get around pretty quickly. You don't wanna mess with him. People still come up to him, and just wanna fight him for whatever reason. That’s a good point. I always ask myself that. Also, he’s just seems to be pretty famous, I mean, right? He gets the name of Butcher of Blaviken... right here! Right?

REZA: Yeah, famous for the wrong reasons.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, I guess, infamous, you could say, of course. 

REZA: Yeah. 

CYPRIAN: But, see, that’s another good point, because he’s known for slaughtering all these guys in Blaviken. So, why in the hell would you go up to him and fight him?

REZA: Yeah. Well, I guess, obviously, they attacked him with the crossbow. But, at that point, he's just defending himself. But, to everybody else, he's the monster. It goes back to what Renfri said, it’s like, “Why don't you just kill him?” And he’s like, “Well, then I'm the monster.” He's become what they view him as. It’s, like, full circle almost. But not really. Maybe half a circle.

ALYSSA: In the scene of Geralt’s storyline, Stregobor enters the market after Geralt’s slaughter and sees Renfri dead. Geralt refuses to let Stregobor take her body and Stregobor turns the townfolk against him, fulfilling Renfri’s prophecy and his legacy as the Butcher of Blaviken.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. And all the people come as well. Actually, now that I think of it, it doesn't actually look that much of a market. It’s just houses. I mean where's the market? Nothing's being sold there. So—

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think as just, like, a fun production thing. They recorded parts of these episodes twice. I mean actually recast Renfri between. So, I think it used to be Millie Brady. And then they recast Emma Appleton for the reshoots. But I think, in the original version, there were, like, behind-the-scenes pictures where it did look like a market in the original version. And then, now, it's the center of Blaviken that we've already seen.

REZA: Yeah, I did see that. They had an entirely different fight sequence. And then they've changed to this one-shot one, which is pretty good.

CYPRIAN: I think the key point here is, uh, Geralt threatens Stregobor. He wants to make an autopsy. So, he wants to prove to Geralt that he was actually right and what he did was the right thing. But I think this just shows like Geralt doesn't care. He was pushed to doing this evil. And he doesn't care if it's the lesser evil or whatever. He was forced to do something that goes against his convictions.

REZA: Yeah, Renfri’s situation is just purely coincidence, you know, a miscommunication, and a giant accident. But the Stregobor, it looks like Geralt just did the job for him. He does get him back. He basically manipulates everyone to believe that Geralt did butcher her.

ALYSSA: It was really wonderful acting on Stregobor’s part. You can kind of see his reaction, one, when he realizes that Renfri is dead, and then, kind of, a change in expression when Geralt stands up to him. As soon as he realizes the situation can be taken advantage of and he can twist it, he has this really grim smile when he starts to turn the townspeople against Geralt. It's really masterfully done.

REZA: Yeah, I mean he knows that he can just take control of the entire situation. I mean it's just completely unfortunate to Geralt, but what can you do in the end?

CYPRIAN: Well, he could potentially just slaughter them all as well. Luckily, he doesn’t choose to do that. 

ALYSSA: If a townsperson falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it...

REZA: Yeah.

CYPRIAN: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Because this is the establishing episode for the entire series, it's our first time meeting this character, Geralt of Rivia. What do you guys think this episode does really well in setting up who Geralt is and where his moralities lie by the end of the episode? 

REZA: I think this is the perfect way to set it up. I really can't fault Geralt’s scenes at all. It really does a good job of summing up who he is, what his moralities are and the world. And I think it just does an excellent job.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. Yeah, I second that. I may very well be a bit biased, because it’s one of my favorite short stories. But it’s that for a reason. It's really powerful. And, um, it really tells you a lot about Geralt and his moral convictions. It's pretty clear cut. He's just, kind of, the Switzerland of this universe. He just wants to do his business and he doesn't want to be bothered, right? But unlike Switzerland, he just stumbles and gets pushed into all kinds of messed up situations and that kind of becomes a theme. You know, he just – 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

CYPRIAN: He just gets stuck into all these situations he actually doesn’t want anything to do with. And, yeah. The tragedy of Geralt. Brilliant pick just for a general introduction to Geralt, the protagonist, it’s brilliant. Overall, I'm pleased.

ALYSSA: I like your comparisons to Geralt now are that he's like butter and he's Swiss. So, he's just Swiss butter now.

ALYSSA: Interspersed throughout Geralt’s story, we also hear about Ciri, the Princess of Cintra. In her storyline, the kingdom of Cintra falls to the Nilfgaardian Empire sending its princess Cirilla on the run. When we first opened these scenes in Cintra, we first see this princess disguised and playing with local boys outside the castle before being called in for a formal knighting ceremony. At this knighting ceremony, we get to know the Princess Ciri a little better as well as her grandmother, Queen Calanthe, and her step-grandfather, Eist Tuirseach. At a banquet later that night, Eist and Calanthe speak of war with Nilfgaard of which Ciri is unaware. The head of the guard tells Calanthe that Nilfgaard is on its way to Cintra.

ALYSSA: So, there's quite a lot in these establishing scenes of Cintra. And I think, as a first time viewer, it's not totally clear how these stories, how Ciri’s story and Geralt’s story connect, and if they're taking place at the same time, for example, as we'll see. But there's a lot of political setup in these first opening sequences.

CYPRIAN: I really like the armor.

REZA: Yeah, it does look pretty cool.

CYPRIAN: It's a good introduction, again, into Ciri. It shows you, first, her normal kind of side. She's just a kid, essentially, right? And you see that she's just playing with her friends on the market in disguise, of course. She gets picked up by this one knight or whatever. And I think it's a great analogy for Ciri as a whole, because, like, again, she just wants to do her thing. And, very similar to Geralt in some way, she just gets dragged into stuff she actually doesn't want to be part of. But – yeah.

ALYSSA: And I think from one of the interesting things that this does in contrast to Geralt’s scenes is that it establishes what normalcy for royalty looks like, which we didn't see in Geralt’s scenes because they were all set in this very common town in Blaviken. It's actually really nice that we get that contrast in settings. So, we kind of understand the breadth of culture on the Continent.

CYPRIAN: This is really well done. I really enjoyed it. This looks authentic. It looks really good. Also, you have some musicians playing in the back, the dances, and also the floor is just gorgeous. Like, this mosaic on the ground is just great. And banners. Again, I just want to point out these costumes, because I really enjoy them. Of course, it's not, like, accurate for, for the medieval period. But, first off, it's a fantasy. So, whatever. But they just look good. I really enjoy them and also the interior. But we have a little, um, contradiction here, because, as you can see in this hall scene, in the Great Hall, there are a lot of torches and just like pits of fire burning. It's, clearly, done with, like, some kind of synthetic oil or whatever. Like, charcoal or something. No, wood doesn't burn like that. So, you wouldn't have that even in such a grand hall.

CYPRIAN: One thing though I just wanted to point out is that the walls look kinda really plain. There's just nothing there. It’s just walls, right? In castles and palaces, actually, in the medieval time, most of the time, they would be just covered in, like, paintings and murals and things like that just to decorate it. I mean, if you're just like an emperor or king and you invite people to your court, you just – you want to impress them, right? Also, it just looks, looks better. I mean you have your home. You also decorate it. You paint the walls. You hang up pictures. And it's the same. Like, walls, generally, weren’t just so plain.

CYPRIAN: I know you, Alyssa, just actually have been to Dresden as well on your trip to Germany. I recall you really enjoyed the museum there and all the statues and everything. What’s funny about it, nowadays, we associate just this classical style of architecture and sculpturing with these plain white sculptures and buildings. And most of the time, also, not the case. They were painted! All these statues, they weren't just like plain white. They were painted in all different colors. Also, the Greek temples were also painted. And the castles! Most of the time, when you today visit the castle, the interior looks just plain white. But it would have looked a lot different in the–in the medieval times. Most of the time, it just faded away over the years. There are some castles where you can still see it. I remember I've been to Milan in Italy, and I've seen the Sforza Castle. They still have the murals. I don't know if they're original or if they have repainted them. But they look really nice. But that's all right. It just looks really cool. Paints a good picture of the atmosphere and everything. And, again, this introduction, I just like the contrast between, like, Ciri’s normal life and their formal life.

REZA: Yeah. I was just kind of impressed with the setting. They did a really good job on the CGI. As Cyprian pointed out, all the costumes. I mean, I don't think they could have done a better job.

ALYSSA: We did get to see the Cintran guard costumes in Lucca as well. The cloaks were made out of, like, a velvet material. And they were all embroidered with the Cintran lion, which was really beautiful.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, that looks really good.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I'll definitely have to tag pictures in the show notes when this episode airs. But, when it comes to the plot... So, there's a couple things that happen at the Cintran banquet. The most important thing is that we get an understanding that Cintra’s about to go to war with Nilfgaard. This is a conversation that happens between Danek, the captain of the guard, Eist, and Calanthe as well. Queen Calanthe, at this point, is protecting Ciri from the knowledge of looming war. And this is really what brings us into the next few scenes and into the rest of the episode. The next scene shows the Battle of Marnadal, which we actually don't get to see in the books but we do get to experience here with Calanthe and with Eist. At the Battle of Marnadal, Cintran and Nilfgaardian forces clash. Meanwhile, in Cintra, Ciri anxiously waits in the castle with Mousesack and her guard Lazlo. Eist is killed, and Calanthe wounded. And the Cintran forces retreat.

CYPRIAN: Uh, are we gonna touch on the Nilfgaardian armor?

ALYSSA: Uh, I mean we—

REZA: Oh, no.

ALYSSA: [hesitantly] —we… can. Like, we can.

CYPRIAN: I mean, it doesn't need to be historically accurate. That's, that's not what I'm saying. Again, it's fantasy, but it's just not even practical. When somebody strikes you or an arrow hits you, best-case scenario, it just glances off. That's why you see the Cintran armor, which I praise very, very much. It is mostly flat. It's just plate armor. It's rounded, so, blows can easily just glance off. If you have all these, like, ridges, arrows can get stuck in it and have better penetration that way. So, it's not even practical, you know, not to mention that the battle itself. I think a general problem of Hollywood and productions like this is they just charge. Like, there's no tactics. No formation. Everyone just goes in and fights and duels, which wasn't how it works. But it's fine for the show, because, again, we don't see this scene in the books at all.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think it's just a passing sentence or two that explains it.

CYPRIAN: It's good that they showed it. You know, again, it’s “show, don't tell”. And, just for something that was mentioned so briefly in the books, it's all right. You know you don't have to go to great lengths to portray it. They just show, “Okay. Here are the two forces. They fight. The Cintran’s lose.” So --

ALYSSA: What would be the difference between, let's say, this battle versus a historical battle during this time period?

CYPRIAN: I mean, look, people genuinely don't want to die. Okay? You just have to keep that in mind. So, the best thing you can do is, at least, just like form a line with your men. Let's say you have three guys who stand in one line. Everyone holds just their shields up, and one guy from the other side just charges it. You have three guys who can strike him and everyone protects themselves with the shield. And, yeah, if you have just, like, a big melee going on with everyone just crashing into each other, horses, men on foot, everyone just pairs off into duels. It's just like a brawl. You could hit someone in the back. You have no way to just coordinate anything. If you have, like, specific regiments, a front line, you can have cavalry coming from one side and attacking the flank of something. You can coordinate like ranged units like archers, for example, crossbowmen. If you have just, like, one big melee going on, if you give the order to fight the enemy, of course, you will hit your own men because everyone is just in one big pile. So, you can’t effectively skirmish at all, which was a big thing of medieval warfare. So, again, for the purpose of the show, it's, it's all right. If you're watching, it's normal. If you're not a history nerd, you don't need to get into that much detail.

ALYSSA: I think we'll circle back around to this plot point in Episode 7 or 8. But we're told, before this battle starts, the Cintran forces are expecting reinforcements from Skellige.

CYPRIAN: Yes.

REZA: A fleet of ships or something?

ALYSSA: Yeah, ultimately, that reinforcement never comes.

REZA: I think it does a good job of just showing: this is how big the Nilfgaardian army is. It's so big. They can just be expanded. They’re, like, lined up on a hill. But then, you know, “Okay, that's not too many.” Then you see this other hill. They're all lining up again. Suddenly there’s two lines.

CYPRIAN: Yeah.

REZA: I think the scene just shows what they're up against and just how screwed they are.

CYPRIAN: Also, also, now that you mentioned it – because I completely forgot about the reinforcements from Skellige. Like, what was the plan here? I mean, they're coming by ship. They are fighting on land. I don't see any beach, anything. Like, what was the game plan? Like, wouldn't it be easier to just, like, move back to the city and defend the walls and everything? Because it's much harder, even if you have a bigger army, to just, like, storm a gate or something if there's actually people defending it, of course. Then you could have the Skelligans just disembark somewhere and just march. And then you can attack from the castle and the Skelligans from the other side. And you’d have a circlement. Again, I'm over-analyzing this really short scene, but, uh, for how calculated Calanthe normally would be, that was not her brightest idea. Just charging Nilfgaardians.

REZA: Yeah, her ego got in the way a bit.

CYPRIAN: That could very well be true. Yeah.

ALYSSA: If any listeners haven't read the books, I guess some supplement from the books would be helpful here. Cintra is located at the mouth of the Yaruga River. They don't really show this on the show at all, actually, but Cintra is meant to be on the coast. Presumably, in decent proximity to Skellige. But I don't really have a good answer for why Calanthe would have done that there. Unless it was to prevent any sort of damage to the city itself.

CYPRIAN: Which failed spectacularly.

ALYSSA: It does. Cintra unfortunately falls and this begins at Marnadal. On the battlefield, Eist is killed. Calanthe is brought back to the castle severely wounded. Mousesack, in the meantime, uses magic to protect the castle from attacking Nilfgaardians. At this point, we really just see the fallout of this battle. Nilfgaard’s siege of Cintra continues on into the night. Mousesack defenses eventually fail, and Nilfgaard bridges the gate. We're moving into the last steps of defense, which is what we see throughout the rest of the episode. Calanthe sends Ciri away with a guardsman telling her to find Geralt of Rivia. Even though we, as an audience, know who Geralt is, Ciri does not. This is the first time that she's hearing of it before she's swept away. In the meantime, Danek, who is the head of Cintran forces, delivers poison to the nobles in the castle, and they kill themselves.

REZA: It's a big scene. 

CYPRIAN: I mean I don't know how to describe it. It's just mental. I don't know who it is. He has his wife and his son in the room. They give the poison to the son, the wife dies, and then the guy stabs himself as well. I mean, that's just tragic.

ALYSSA: One of the lines of dialogue that precedes that scene as well, it could be that specific room with the family, but there's also another room with just a couple as well. The wife, in that scenario, she says, like, “We can find a way out. We can escape.” And the husband holds up the poison, and he says, like, “This is our escape.” And we get the understanding, you know, as we'll see in this episode and in the battle scenes, that Nilfgaard doesn't take any prisoners. And everyone is brutally, brutally murdered outside of the castle. The contrast between preparations inside the castle is contrasted continually with the slaughter that's happening outside of it. And we can, kind of, see how Calanthe is progressing her decision making as a queen throughout the episode, which I think is incredibly tragic and heartbreaking. I think these scenes really just come down to the desperation of Cintra and, ultimately, of Calanthe as well.

REZA: When I was reading the books and watching the show, too, I did, kind of, see this as destiny, essentially, catching up with her. 

ALYSSA: Throughout this episode and, again throughout the series, we'll see how much of a force she is to be reckoned with. And we see her death on screen here as well. Like, this all happens so fast.

CYPRIAN: I really like Calanthe’s, like, room where she lies, you know? To warm such a big room, you have – to have a big fire. And it's mental. It's – the slaughter outside. The tragic tales inside of suicide in desperation. You can only imagine what was going through that. It’s really tragic.

REZA: Yeah, I guess it's just a brutal introduction for Ciri to the world. And, you know, just how it is outside of her normal palace life. You know, it’s purely what this scene represents.

CYPRIAN: Shit hits the fan.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

REZA: It does.

CYPRIAN: Which is interesting because, normally, if you, like, capture a settlement or–or a city or something, you usually don't want to kill everyone and burn everything down because you actually want the city for yourself, you know, and all the people in there and the economic activity. If you burn just everything, it’s purely just like a war of destruction. The Mongol invasion of Europe springs to mind, where they literally just went and burned everything or Attila the Hun. I mean, there were examples of that happening, but, generally, if you have a war of conquest, you don't want to kill everyone, you know, because all that's gonna do is hurt you in the long end with uprisings and stuff. I mean, if you kill everyone, the people will just hate you, you know, unless you kill everyone again.

ALYSSA: I think this is the same conversation we had with Geralt.

CYPRIAN: Right. Right. It's similar in that regard. So, it's really a bad first introduction to Nilfgaard, which, uh, sets the tone. We don't know their motivation. We just see they come and destroy everything: people's lives, the town, everything. And they just seem like this unstoppable force, as Reza mentioned early in the battle scene that the army is just so big. They just come in and just roll over Calanthe forces and the city eventually as well. You know, once they're inside, just all hell breaks loose.

ALYSSA: You know, by the end, we witness the fall of Cintra. You know, we started in the beginning from this established kingdom. We know that this is a culture, and a city, and a kingdom that’s thriving. By the end of the episode, everything is now taken away. I think in an act of desperation and resignation, Calanthe throws herself from the tower. And, while trying to escape, Ciri’s guard, Lazlo, is killed. At the end of the episode, a Nilfgaardian knight, the one who killed Eist and Lazlo, captures Ciri and leaves the city with her. Ultimately, she escapes him by using unexpected powers and running into the woods alone. And that's where her storyline ends.

CYPRIAN: Well, a lot of uncertainty. I mean, as open as an end can be. 

REZA: Shit, kind of, just happens all at once, doesn't it?

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. I mean the Black Knight, which chases Ciri around, we also see him in the battle, right? Because he's the one that shoots the arrow that kills Eist. I just want to point out, he's a pretty good shot, isn't he? I mean. Wow. He just snipes Eist right in the eye from – I don't know how much that was. 

REZA: A mile away.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. And with a bow, you know? Maybe even more impressive, he hits this one knight who has got Ciri who is riding on a horse while he is also riding on a horse. He just also snipes him off without hurting Ciri. I mean, wow. I’m really impressed by his archery.

ALYSSA: I guess, like, some closing thoughts on these last few scenes, as you said, Reza, this all happens so quickly. And, suddenly, Ciri, who, as far as we know, is one of the few survivors from this siege, she loses her entire support network. Like, the friends that she had in the beginning. Calanthe is now gone, so is her personal guard Lazlo. We didn't really talk about him here too much, but Mousesack just sends off Ciri and Lazlo. And then we don't really know what happens to him after. By the end of this, this princess, who has been so protected by her grandmother and by the fanfare of royalty, is now on her own for the first time ever.

REZA: Yeah, not to mention her discovering her superpowers. 

ALYSSA: Yeah. 

REZA: I think it was a pretty good introduction to her, uh magical side. I didn't imagine it would be that powerful to split the earth, but pretty impressed with how they've handled it.

CYPRIAN: I think we should also point out that there's two different timelines going on. Even for me, I was a bit confused when I first watched the first episode.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think there's a very brief hint but only in passing. Ciri, at the banquet, tells Calanthe, “Didn't you win your first battle when you are my age?” Meanwhile, in Geralt’s timeline, Renfri says Calanthe of Cintra just won her first battle. They're so quick. And I think that any viewer would not have picked up on that on the first watch.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, I know I didn't.

REZA: Yeah. It was like a two-second scene. You blink, and it's gone. I think there was another one. Mousesack mentioned the Curse of the Black Sun and how a mage was imprisoning all these princesses. But, yeah, again, I mean, if you just miss it for a second, it's gone.

CYPRIAN: What they could have done would bring more clarity to the average viewer is just a little overview of–of the city and then just like Cintra this and this year, for example. Again, for Geralt, like, Blaviken this and this year just to distinguish them better. 

REZA: I think Lauren, the showrunner, did mention that she wanted it to be a bit more thought-provoking. And I do, kind of, understand that point of view. And it really did work. I came back two or three more times to watch it just to kind of understand and grasp the show’s narrative. A lot of my friends did that too. I think it was a good hook. But, yeah, I mean, maybe a timeline.

ALYSSA: Yeah, Netflix did. They made an official one.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm just saying it would have been maybe nice, you know, just for a little bit, like, of orientation. Okay. This is going on here. And this is just, like, something else, which will intertwine later on, which we'll discuss later in the other episodes. So, we're not going to go into that. But, uh, yeah. 

ALYSSA: Yeah, I think, for the purpose of this show, based on what Lauren Hissrich, the showrunner, said is that she wanted to establish Ciri and, like, this third part of that trio, who they were independent of Geralt before they all meet. Like, in this medium, specifically, you know, it makes sense. I think, at first, I wasn't sure about it, especially because I was so close to the source material. But, after having sat with this for now, like, seven months, I think it does, ultimately, make sense. But, as both of you have kind of suggested, some sort of orientation would help the viewer, I think. Something as small as date and time markers and place markers would have at least helped with comprehension. I don't think that would have taken away from the goal of making something that's thought-provoking.

CYPRIAN: Exactly. Maybe they do it in Season Two.

ALYSSA: So, we'll end up coming back to the fall of Cintra around Episode 7. We'll get to see this story from another perspective as well, which makes it really interesting and definitely does color our interpretation of this first episode really well. One of the most important parts of Ciri’s storyline as well is that it establishes the outcome of the primary political conflict of the season, which is the war between the Northern Kingdoms and Nilfgaard. It's interesting, as I said because this tells us what's going to happen, um, and then we kind of go back and figure out what the cause of it was and how it came about.

CYPRIAN: I think Ciri is just purely world-building and introduction. I mean we don't get this heavy moral conflict that we do in Geralt’s storyline. Of course, we have horrible and morally questionable things happening in Ciri’s timeline as well, but that's pretty clear cut. I think we can all agree that war is bad and should generally be avoided. So, does mass murder and sacking of cities. I think it just does a good job of setting up the whole situation Ciri finds herself in.

REZA: Yeah, it does set the tone of the narrative pretty well. 

CYPRIAN: Exactly.

ALYSSA: You know, the way that Geralt’s stories are structured throughout the series, they're very much “monster of the week”. Yeah, they stand alone pretty easily; this one with Renfri included. I think the difference between Geralt and Ciri’s storylines, in this scenario, is that we’re only seeing a very small part of Ciri’s hero's journey. And we're just seeing her in the very early onset of it, where she is now sent into chaos which sets us up for a very nice arc throughout the rest of the season. Before we jump into our standout parts of the episode, we're gonna hand it over to Lars from Witcherflix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back Cyprian, Reza, and I will continue our discussion of “The End’s Beginning.”

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody to the newest buzz from the Witcher show on Netflix. I hope you are all doing fine in this tumultuous times.

So, where did we leave off last season? Back in February, we learned that several new characters had been cast for Season 2 of the Witcher. Among them where witchers such as Lambert, played by Paul Bullion; Coen, played by Yasen Atour; and Eskel, played by Danish actor Thue Ersted Rasmussen. So there will be a lot of action set in Kaer Morhen next season. But I think you noticed that one very important witcher was still missing. But this finally changed: Vesemir, Geralt's mentor and father figure, will be played by Danish actor Kim Bodnia, known for TV shows such as "Killing Eve" or the Netflix original "The Letter for the King".

Netflix's official press release describes Vesemir like this: A charming relic of the witcher Golden Age, Vesemir is the oldest and most experienced witcher in our series, as well as a father figure to Geralt. As one of the survivors of The Massacre at Kaer Morhen, a haunting slaughter that nearly exterminated the Witchers, he is fiercely protective of the remaining few, who he sees as an endangered community who can find glory on 'the Path' to slaying monsters.

The list of other characters in Season 2 we know about has become even longer, too: Previously, we already knew about Kristofer Hivju playing Nivellen, the cursed man from the short story "A Grain of Truth", as well as characters like Vereena, the bruxa; Lydia van Bredevoort; and the most beautiful woman in the world, the elven sorceress Francesca Findabair, played by Mecia Simson. Since then there were even more castings: Kaine Zajaz will play Gage, Francesca's brother - a show-only character that does not exist in the books. Moreover, British actor Andrew Paul will play another original character named Colin Coppercloth, possibly the husband of Meena Coppercloth who will be played by Lesley Ewen. We don't we know yet what these characters are about, unfortunately. According to the Witcher news site Redanian Intelligence, actor and stunt performer Joel Adrian has been cast as a character named Hemrik, who seems to be another witcher from Kaer Morhen. Hemrik doesn't exist in the books either, so he is another invention for the show. It is speculated that he could appear in possible flashback scenes showing a young Geralt training at Kaer Morhen. In addition, French actor Vernon Dobtcheff was cast as an "older Elven Man" and Romanian actress Alina Ilin will also play an elf. As you can see, elves will play a big role in Season 2. 

The final big casting rumor is for another, very beloved character of the Witcher franchise appearing in Season 2. Redanian Intelligence revealed a transcript of a new audition tape for a character codenamed "Queen Mabel". There is only one character whose name sounds similar to this one. It is of course Meve, the Queen of Lyria and Rivia who has some very important and iconic scenes in books such as Blood of Elves and later in Baptism of Fire.

And please allow at this point to give a little shout out to the CDProjekt game "Thronebreaker: The Witcher Tales", a mix of RPG and Gwent card game where Queen Meve is the main protagonist. It is an awesome game and perfect to prepare yourself for season 2.

Anyway, Queen Meve's appearance in Season 2 which adapts the first book in the main saga called "Blood of Elves" could suggest the appearance of the famous council scene at Hagge Castle where the most powerful kings in the North meet to discuss the political situation on the Continent. This of course would also suggest that King Foltest makes another appearance, and also the introduction of other kings like Vizimir II of Redania, Demavend III of Aedirn, or Henselt of Kaedwen. I'm absolutely in favor of political scheming in Season 2 of the Witcher.

But, of course, as we all know, The Witcher halted production for season 2 due to the Coronavirus pandemic on March 15th. Originally, the production of The Witcher's second season was rumored to wrap around August 2020, but as you can imagine this date had to be postponed. Cast and crew health were Netflix's primary concerns in this situation and rightly so. But, of course, the most important question when it comes to Season 2 is now: when will the production continue?

At the end of April, Deadline.com reported that the current date to resume producing films and TV shows in the United Kingdom was September 2020. Redanian Intelligence again does the math and calculates that according to the release schedule of Season 1, Season 2 could possibly be dropped on Netflix around August 2021. As of June 1st, the UK government has released a comprehensive set of coronavirus safety protocols for the movie industry filming in the UK. These guidelines were intended to be advisory and not mandatory and were designed to be scalable to fit the needs of movie and TV productions of all sizes. Deadline also writes the following: "It is expected that the new guidelines will take time to be implemented, but it is thought that certain productions could get up and running as soon as July." So maybe with a little bit of luck (of course still having safety concerns as their number one priority) the Witcher can finally start hunting monsters again very soon. 

Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]

ALYSSA: Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. I’m here with Cyprian and Reza discussing “The End’s Beginning” from Season 1 of Netflix’s The Witcher. When we left off, we broke down the plot of the episode. And, now, it’s time to dive into the key points and themes that interested us most. For today's discussion, we're going to focus on the scene where Geralt enters Blaviken and is attacked by Renfri's bandits. Renfri and Geralt consequently fight, and he kills her.

REZA: In my eyes, the whole thing is like a converging point for everything that's kind of been brought up in this episode. You've got Renfri's point of view, Geralt's point of view. Geralt, usually, a bit more defensive or closed off, now just kind of snaps when they attack him. And it kind of goes back to what Renfri was saying, you know, "Why not attack them and kill them if they're constantly calling you names and standing up against you?" And he's like, "I'd become what they say I am." And we see that come to life here. So, yeah. It really is a converging point of the whole narrative.

CYPRIAN: It is. And, actually, this is quite ironic, because the point Renfri implies is that, "Well, they treat you like shit. So, why not treat them like shit or kill them, resort to violence," which Geralt doesn't really do. I mean, he gets attacked. He doesn't attack them because they're mean to him, you know. So, um, again, as Geralt often does, he gets thrown into the situation, kind of. Sure. He brought his sword and everything, but he wasn't the one that was starting the violence. So, yeah, he's basically just defending himself. I mean, of course, this  is the event, which gives Geralt his nickname, “Butcher of Blaviken”.

REZA: Yeah. And, to normal people, it just kind of solidified the fact that witchers are evil even though they're not. And that, definitely, wasn't Geralt's intention. But, yeah, he's just being tossed into this whole situation.

ALYSSA: Absolutely.

CYPRIAN: It's tragic because, at the end of the scene, the citizens of Blaviken come back and all they see is Geralt with his bloody sword and a number of corpses lying around. I mean, make that what you will.

ALYSSA: And we'll be able to talk about this a little more in our comparison to the books. But, as you've said, it's kind of unprompted despite the fact that they tell him, "It's an ultimatum. Make your choice." And then they're the ones who attack first.

CYPRIAN: Yeah.

ALYSSA: It comes off a little strangely, but it does, as you said, double down on the perception that Geralt is the one who's in the wrong here, Geralt is the one who instigated this fight. There's this really wonderful video that Netflix posted on their YouTube page in which Henry Cavill breaks down this specific fight scene shot-by-shot. And I would definitely recommend checking it out. Getting his perspective on how they shot the fight is incredibly interesting. Was there anything that stood out to you in that video?

REZA: Yeah, the fact, while filming, they were using half swords. So, most of those pretty, like, gory scenes was just a half sword. And then they CGI'd in the,uh,  the full length. And then the fact that it was all one shot. At the same time, he did mention that he did all stunts himself too, which is pretty impressive. I'm quite happy that he's really invested.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, definitely. I mean the one-shot thing was really nice. They also didn't have that classical action shaky cam, which I really despise.

REZA: Yes.

CYPRIAN: With this one clean shot, you can really see what was going on. You see who is where and the action. And it's a great choreography and it's really powerful.

ALYSSA: Absolutely. I think some of the important things about having done it as one shot, you know, from an audience perspective, it's easy for the viewer to follow along, which is nice. And then I think the other thing, it solidifies our understanding of his skill set. This is the first real fight that we're seeing Henry Cavill as Geralt in. As new viewers, we get an understanding of what his skill set is and how adept he is at swordsmanship, which sets us up really nicely for the fight to follow.

REZA: Yeah, it definitely was, uh, all beautifully choreographed.

ALYSSA: The fight choreographer for the show was Vladimir Furdik. But this specific scene between Renfri and her gang was coordinated by Wolfgang Stegemann and one of his assistants.

CYPRIAN: Do you know actually what Wolfgang means in German?

ALYSSA: What?

CYPRIAN: I mean, first of all, it is said Wolfgang. It literally means “the wolves path” or “the wolves walk.”

ALYSSA: Hmm.

REZA: Wow.

CYPRIAN: Wolf is... wolf. I mean it's not that far. And gang is the walk, to go somewhere. It's quite a fitting name if you think about it.

ALYSSA: It's very poetic.

REZA: Sapkowski should have called Geralt, “Wolfgang”.

CYPRIAN: I know, right?

REZA: #Wolfgang.

ALYSSA: And, in the shot-by-shot video, Henry Cavill says that Wolfgang had a very specific vision for this scene. And one of his coordinators, who I believe is also in the Blaviken fight as one of Renfri's bandits, will be taking over stunt coordination for next season.

REZA: Oh, great.

ALYSSA: The original version of this scene with Millie Brady was shot in, like, an open marketplace it looks like. From old stills. And I think the fight was entirely different as well.

REZA: Yeah. It was a completely other fight. I did watch a video. I don't remember what it was. They did mention that the fight was pretty similar to the original Witcher show, The Hexer. You know, not one shot. Geralt kind of ducking and weaving through the marketplace. A lot more running around, but – yeah.

ALYSSA: I'd imagine that would change the pace of the scene and of the episode. The fight here was very quick. As soon as Geralt left the woods, we went straight into the next fight, and then we went straight into the fight with Renfri. So, there was very little breathing room when those scenes actually happened. But the rest was incredibly action-based.

REZA: Yeah, it is good that they tell a narrative through these. With Renfri's gang, we see how precise and accurate he can be and just clear that many people. And then we can get into a much more – not intimate, but a much more heavy one on one.

CYPRIAN: He just gets sloppy.

REZA: He did get sloppy. He got a few, uh, nicks here and there.

CYPRIAN: Oh, yeah.

ALYSSA: There was one other video that you guys also referenced. Would you be able to give us, like, a TL;DR of that video?

REZA: Yeah, it's called Shadiversity. He has a channel on YouTube. And he's basically done an autopsy of the entire fight with Renfri's gang and Renfri herself. It is about an hour long. But, yeah, if you're interested in more details of the fight and the realism of it as well, I would all implore you to go check it out because he does a really good job of it.

ALYSSA: Again, in this video, was there something that surprised you that you wouldn't have known otherwise?

REZA: Well, he does a lot of other breakdowns for other movies. And, most of the time, especially in a medieval setting, there isn't much realism. Like, they just kind of swing the sword around in a fancy way, where, in reality, that would have broken your wrist, for example. And a lot of the armors are impractical. So, he does mention that The Witcher does pick up on a few things that are “realistic”. So, it is good to see these sort of things. But, as we know, witchers do fight sort of in a way that almost resembles dancing.

CYPRIAN: This dance-like fighting style makes the flow of the fight really rhythmic. Again, I think, like, fantasy and, especially the Witcher, is one of those series which can kind of get away with these "unrealistic fighting styles." Stuff like spinning and pirouettes and stuff like that because, the Witcher, he has, like, enhanced speed and reflexes and all that stuff. This is shown really good in this fight. I don't want to say missed in the Kikimora fight at the beginning of the episode. But, against seven opponents, you could say seven “dancing partners”, he has a lot more room to maneuver. Just the flow of the choreography is really nice. Just one last point to this gang fight, beautiful shot before the fight of the whole gang just standing there and looking menacingly. While I previously praised the costume department for these really beautiful costumes that they made throughout the episode and throughout the whole season, they really dropped the ball on this one. I get it, gang of bandits and everything, but they just look dirty. They just do. I mean their costumes are just all over the place. They just look like they just put random pieces of leather together and told them, "All right."

REZA: “Good luck.”

CYPRIAN: I don't know.

ALYSSA: I think that's one of the things that I was thinking about when I reread parts of “The Lesser Evil” short story this morning. We get to know the bandits, Renfri's gang, on a very individual level. We know their names. We know a little bit about where they came from. We have characters such as, like, Fifteen, Nohorn, The Twins, Civril, a half-elf. Versus, in the show, they're incredibly nameless and, like, to a degree, kind of faceless. Even I don't – I remember what the half-elf looks like because you saw his ears. You get that shot around the crossbow.

CYPRIAN: Wait. Wait. The one with the crossbow was the half-elf?

ALYSSA: Yeah, you see his ears. He has—

CYPRIAN: I didn't even notice that.

ALYSSA: That's something that I picked up on the first time I saw it. I was like, "Ooh, an elf." I was waiting to see which one Civril was. So, I was excited when I saw it.

CYPRIAN: Oh wow.

ALYSSA: But, the rest of them, I genuinely don't remember their faces. So, I think that might be part of the costuming decision as well. I would imagine that those suits had to be more practical than flashy? But I don't know. I would have liked to see more of their personality and get to know them because I think that would have made this fight harder as an audience member.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, you get more invested in them. And it's not even being flashy. I mean, any of you guys like to wear dirty clothes? I don't think so. Like, people back then, they weren't any indifferent. Even though hygiene was, of course, worse back then, it was still there. Like, the basics. Like, washing your face. And, when your boots are dirty, you clean them. So – yeah.

ALYSSA: Again, who knows if this was considered when they were actually in production. But, as I was reading the books this morning, it does mention that people know that they're from Novigrad based on the way that they dress. You might be able to speak to this Cyprian because I don't have the show in front of me. But I don't remember the way that they dress being very different from the way everyone else in Blaviken was dressed.

CYPRIAN: I mean it looks more “armory” if I can put it that way. It's not armor that they're wearing, not even close. But I mean they have, like, these typical wrist wraps, which are typical for movies and shows, not for the medieval period. I think they are there to resemble leather armor-type things, but they're not? I don't know what to make of it, you know. And it definitely doesn't look like they are dressing like Novigrad city folk.

REZA: I guess it just shows that they've been on the road for a while and they got to kind of ride light or walk light or however, they get to Blaviken.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. It is what it is.

ALYSSA: And we'll get the opportunity to see different kinds of armor throughout the season. Examples I could think of are Tea and Vea in Episode 6, “Rare Species”. I just recorded yesterday Episode 7, “Before a Fall”, um, and we had a brief conversation about Vilgefortz’s costume there as well. We'll continually see different variations of armor, whether that's traditional, like the Cintran guards, or very untraditional.

When we talked about the plot, we discussed some of the comparisons between Geralt's fight with those bandits versus Geralt's fight with Renfri. What did you guys think of the specific fight and its production?

REZA: Well, he's obviously a pretty capable fighter. So, do you think he was like pulling his punches a lot with Renfri. If you go and look at the scene again, you can see him on the defensive until the last few seconds, where he disarms Renfri.  So, from a narrative point of view, we can kind of deduct he didn't want to kill.

ALYSSA: And I think Henry even says as much in that shot by shot video that it was definitely a defensive fight on his part.

REZA: Yes, I think we see Renfri, uh, nick him a few times too. He didn't – not have a reaction, but he really tried to contain himself and not lash out.

CYPRIAN: I really enjoy the Renfri fight just for the flow of the fight and the action scene. It's great. You have this kind of shows where, again, like Reza mentioned earlier, where they just, like, swing at each other, at the air in front of them, and just parry. This fight, I mean it looks on screen like they are hitting to kill, right? However, you can see, throughout their fight, Geralt's restraining himself and there are a few times where he tried to restrain her because there are always these few seconds where they just, like, lock blades and exchange a few words or something. And then you get nicked with the dagger by Renfri. Especially in, like, bladed one-on-one duel situations, one of the most important things is movement. Geralt only gets hit when they stand still and cross blades. Like, you generally don't want to do that. Just standing there that makes you vulnerable. And I praise them for that as well. I mean, he just gets punished for that every time. And, arguably, these are the only times she gets him because, when he is in fight mode, when he is evading, when he's doing his thing, she can't do anything to him. He's just too good. Yeah.

REZA: Yeah, I think, at one point, he does grab her dagger, too. And she cuts him. He kind of has that look on his face. Like, you know, “Come on, you've lost." But she keeps going. It is an interesting exchange.

CYPRIAN: As you said, he basically disarms her. I mean this is pretty much the ultimate move to defeat an enemy, but not kill him. Of course, she still has her dagger and we see how that goes. He holds her at knifepoint or sword point or whatever, but she again lashes out. His reflexes kind of take over and, with one swift motion, he just redirects her knife and kills her basically. So, it kind of resembles the tragedy of the whole situation. And, well --

REZA: Yeah, I really like the sound design too. You really hear the deflection from the swords. And just it swinging so hard through the air making that whoosh sound.

CYPRIAN: It sounds really powerful. Yeah.

REZA: Yeah, like you said, putting all their effort into it too.

CYPRIAN: Definitely. You can hear it. You can see it. And I really like, again, I have to praise it, that they don't only use their swords. I mean there are a few times where Geralt grapples her and Renfri using her dagger. I mean that is as historically accurate as you can get. Dual-wielding two swords is kind of unhandy. But dual-wielding a sword and a knife is perfectly normal in, like, a street fight situation because you have one, which has a long reach, and then, when you get up close, as they do, you have something handy. You can stab the fucker. So, yeah, that was really great.

REZA: I had a comment on that dialogue. So, he tries to subdue her with Axii, is it? And she mentions it doesn't work on her. And she said, “Silver does.” And he said, “Well, silver is for monsters,” obviously, implying that she's a monster. I don't know. I just kind of found it a bit funny that, at the end of the day, the witcher still kills a monster. I mean, they're not portraying her as one, but she's been brought up to believe that she's a monster her whole life.

ALYSSA: Yeah, the dialogue here is interesting. And I guess we'll get to it in the comparison to the books as well. But there's, I think, certain things that are unexplained or this is the first time that we're hearing about them. Um, I think, aside from the brief mention of Stregobor, in the beginning, saying, "I need you to kill a monster. It's the worst kind of monster: a human." When we circle back around to this, I don't think we've really seen Renfri speak of herself in that way. It's interesting to see it brought up now ahead of the fight. I think that that dialogue makes it seem more like suicide by witcher than it does like a fair fight.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, isn't every fight against a witcher basically suicide by witcher? 

ALYSSA: I mean, kind of. Yeah.

CYPRIAN: Why would you ever do that, like, ever.

ALYSSA: There's something about it that, as you're watching it, she kind of resigns herself to that fate, I think, more than she believes she'll get out alive. Geralt tells her, “If we cross swords, I won't be able to stop.” And then she says something to the effect of like, “I'm counting on it,” or what is – what does she say there? I don't remember the exact line.

REZA: Ah, let's pull it up. She – yeah. She says she won't be able to stop. She finishes the sentence.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. I mean, I just watched it back. Geralt says, “If we cross blades,” and then she says, “I won't be able to stop.” She actually says that.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I guess I keep going back to the book because I just read it before we recorded. He says, “Renfri, If we cross blades, I won't – I won't be able.” And she says, “I know. But I... I can't do anything else. I just can't. We are what we are, you and I.”

REZA: Yeah, she kind of does mention that. She says, "They created me the way they created you." That kind of confused me a bit, because I don't think she went through the Trial of the Grasses or anything. But I think she is just referring to her mutations, I guess, or that the environment around them has just forced this image upon them that they're the monster. That they've made them the monster.

CYPRIAN: That's a good point. Yeah. 

REZA: Just public perception.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, Geralt and Renfri, right? Because, like, if one person says to you that you're a monster, like, “Whatever. They're crazy.” But, if, like, ten tell you that, a hundred, thousand, everyone you meet, are you crazy? Are they crazy? Like, you know, you start to doubt yourself maybe and I think Renfri started to believe that herself, especially with the line, “Silvers does work on me,” or whatever she says. Implying herself that she actually is in fact the monster or a monster. And Geralt is kind of on the side, like, “No, you can still make the choice yourself.” What proof do we have that she has any mutations? Only the words of Stregobor. She doesn't do anything which is out of the ordinary.

REZA: Yeah. Really I think the point is that the public perception labels outsiders as monsters. Maybe not in, like, a literal sense, but it is really an outsider mentality. And it kind of gets perpetuated on them as well.

ALYSSA: Mhmm. Looking at the fight scene as a whole, how would you guys say it sets up Geralt for the rest of the season?

REZA: So, in terms of just his experience with the world, I think that doesn't change. But I think his experience with his morality and destiny, well, it changes him in a big way, because he's got this label now. He's the Butcher of Blaviken. And he can’t change that fact. Like, he doesn't have a giant scar from that battle or anything like that. But the public perception is 100 percent determined there. Maybe some people didn't think he was a monster, but some people did. But, now, 100 percent of the people think he is. It does change him in that sense.

CYPRIAN: Shit happens.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

CYPRIAN: I mean – well, I mean they basically chose this story to be Geralt's introduction in the series. And I think they chose pretty well. It introduces The Witcher in a very basic fundamental way. Like, what is a witcher? They show his profession. They show his skill set. They show what he does for a living, right? And they show his, um, not too good public reputation, I mean, for witchers as a whole and for Geralt as well. And, also, it shows introduction into the moral ambiguity of The Witcher series as a whole. What is it all about, you know? What makes this special? They arguably could have done actually a bit of a better job. So, yeah, but I guess we'll dive into that right now actually.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

CYPRIAN: Yeah.

ALYSSA: So, we have the luxury of seeing a direct comparison to the short stories. Andrzej Sapkowski’s short story, “The Lesser Evil”, talks about this specific story with Geralt and Renfri at Blaviken. For the most part, it does do a pretty solid job of adapting the major plot points, but there's some moments from the books that I think would have added to the clarity of the characters and their motivations. And there's a few different things that I'll touch upon here before we deep dive into one specifically. The first thing is that, in the books, Geralt and Stregobor have a brief history. So, they already know each other. They were acquainted, apparently, at court. I believe in Kovir. So, Geralt is then surprised to see Stregobor in Blaviken. This doesn't really impact their relationship too much. They were only acquainted, it sounds like. So, the point that Cyprian had said earlier in the episode, where Stregobor is more or less a stranger to Geralt asking him to kill somebody. It still kind of stands in the books. The other thing is we just talked about Renfri's abilities and that she didn't really have any in the show. They're also a little more clear in the books. She's able to prophesize, which we do see in those weird flashback dream sequences. But it's not totally clear what those are, they just kind of keep occurring. And then the very last point – the one that we'll talk about a little more is this thing called the Tridam Ultimatum.

CYPRIAN: I think there's another point actually. Damn. What was he called again? The, the kind of the mayor of the town?

ALYSSA: Um… Caldemeyn, the alderman.

CYPRIAN: Right. Right. Right. 

ALYSSA: In the books, the main character from Blaviken that we meet is Caldemeyn, the alderman of Blaviken, and essentially acts as like a mayor of the town and Geralt stays with him. So, he's familiar with Caldemeyn. He's been there before. And it's Caldemeyn, not Marilka, that is Geralt's ambassador around the town.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. I think they're even pretty good friends, aren't they? Again, he invites him to his house. He gives him a meal. He shows him around. And, actually, I think in the Netflix series, when he gets into the inn, he asks specifically for him. He wants to see him because he knows him. He’s his friend, right? But then, I think the girl is supposed to be his daughter, because, in the books, like, he tells Geralt, “Hey, I don't have any use for this Kikimora thing that you brought me here. I can't pay you for it. But, hey, we have this fancy mage here in town. So, you might want to check him out.” And that's how he gets introduced to, to Stregobor and this whole mess.

ALYSSA: Marilka is still his daughter in the books. She's just very young.

CYPRIAN: She doesn't really do anything. She's just there in the house, right?

ALYSSA: Yeah, she just whines a lot.

CYPRIAN: Yeah.

ALYSSA: So, that's about it, yeah.

REZA: Yeah.

CYPRIAN: I don't know. They just kind of replaced him with her, which is fine, I guess. But, again, it's more of a personal connection with him or it would have been in the show. Later, he also plays another role, which we will get to when we talk about the ultimatum.

ALYSSA: In the books, one of the plot points revolves around this event called the Tridam Ultimatum. And Renfri first brings it up when she visits Geralt in Caldemeyn's house in the night. So, the equivalent of this scene would be when she goes to visit him at the stream. Geralt, at this point, is trying to talk Renfri out of killing Stregobor, but she's trying to talk him into it. She mentions that there are only two people who can stop the upcoming fight, either Stregobor himself if he surrenders to Renfri or Geralt. Her argument, which she doesn't then specify, is that she believes Stregobor won't be able to turn down this ultimatum. That he will have to make the choice. We get a brief scene where, in the morning, Geralt is speaking to Caldemeyn at their breakfast table before the market. And Caldemeyn's gossiping with Geralt basically. And he's like, “Oh, did you know that Nohorn was part of this gang. Fifteen was part of that one. The twins have done some horrible things. And, supposedly, Civril was at Tridam during the massacre.” Geralt now here's this news, like, “What do you mean the massacre at Tridam?” Caldemeyn is then surprised that Geralt hasn't heard of it. And, apparently, a number of years ago, Civril and some other bandits were being held by a baron in the dungeons. In order to get the baron to release them, some of their comrades then went onto a boat in the Tridam River and then started slaughtering a number of pilgrims on board to get the baron to release their friends. Eventually, the baron released them, but not after about twelve people were thrown off-board. After the conflict, some people criticized the baron for giving in. Some people criticized him for not giving in soon enough. And then he ultimately faced exile or execution and said that he was taking the lesser evil by releasing those bandits. And then this is when Geralt then realizes what Renfri has up her sleeve.

CYPRIAN: We pretty much face the same issues today with terrorism or hostage-taking. The baron also faced harsh criticism because he just – I mean I don't want to say half-assed it. But I mean the criticism was, if you're going to release the prisoners, then you should have released them, like, immediately before they killed anyone or, after they already started killing them, you shouldn't have released them at all just because people are already dead. Because, if you give in to their demands, you will show other bandits that you can get what you want with that method. Do you want to save these people and maybe create other situations and let the bandits do whatever they want? Or do you sacrifice these people so it doesn't happen again? Which does not guarantee for, of course. So, yeah, it's a classic moral problem.

REZA: I kind of like to look at that as Geralt is in the position of the baron now, because he is kind of pretty much the middleman, which we’ll learn soon. Yeah. It really is just a device to show here’s what's coming.

CYPRIAN: I mean it is the main point of the whole story, isn't it? I mean this is the moral question, this ultimatum. Because the thing is they didn't actually leave it out of the Netflix series because it's there. In my opinion, they just fail to show it properly or to explain it. Earlier with the – with the Caldemeyn. What was it called again? I keep forgetting his name.

ALYSSA: No, the name is Caldemeyn, but his position is alderman.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. Right. Caldemeyn, the alderman. He's the one guy who introduces Geralt and us, of course, to this whole ultimatum thing, right? To the whole problem. And they left him out of the show. So, they left out his explanation of this thing. And they didn't replace it with anything either. So, there's no one to explain what's really going on. The only explanation we get is what you mentioned earlier, Alyssa, this one guy, which just came in and said, “Ey, it’s an ultimatum. Get it?”

REZA: “Ey, huh, you get it?”

CYPRIAN: Yeah. The first time I saw that scene, I just burst out laughing because it was just like, “Okay.” It's just like the last-ditch resort to say we need to get it out somehow. So, this guy just steps in and says it, and then gets killed. And, not to mention, it's not really an ultimatum, as you just mentioned earlier as well, because he says it's an ultimatum. And then the other guy starts shooting. So, I mean what kind of choice is that? So, yeah, it's a pity. I mean they just missed the opportunity here to properly introduce the problem, and really show the moral question here, and what is the plan of everyone involved? And then he gets to the market, and there's just these guys standing there. And what are they supposed to do? I mean, they're not even at the market. There aren't any other people around to kill, right? So, yeah, it's just all a bit hazy.

ALYSSA: Yeah. The way it's done in the books, Civril, the elf is still the one that shoots the crossbow at Geralt. But they do take a moment in presenting him a message from Renfri. That message isn't just, you know, “It's ultimatum. You get it?” It's a little bit more poetic than that and calls back to the conversation that they had. Geralt comes to the market looking for Renfri. And he only comes across her gang. Similarly, to the show, they're kind of at a standstill. Geralt asks where Renfri is, and Civril replies, “At the tower. She's making the sorcerer an offer he can't refuse. But she knew you would come. She left a message for you” “I am what I am. Choose. Either me or a lesser.” And Civril says, “You're supposed to know what that means.” At this point, Geralt draws his sword, and that's his answer to the ultimatum he’s been presented with. And that's when they attack, which makes it a little clearer. In the show, Henry just kind of stands there, like, very passively and then he just says, “Fuck.” So, as he does. 

CYPRIAN: Which is fine.

ALYSSA: Yeah. It just makes it feel like less of his decision as we've spoken about and more that they're attacking him preemptively. So, I think that's a little unclear that it was really his decision to get involved. I think some of the things that maybe could have been changed in production to make that a little more clear is, one, maybe to have it similarly to the books, where he draws his sword when he's presented with the ultimatum or, if it went the way that it did, if he started to, let's say, take a running start toward them before the crossbow went off and then deflect the crossbow in mid-run. That would then be more reactive on the gang’s part as opposed to proactive.

CYPRIAN: They could have done that. Yeah, sure. I mean the main issue I have with it is just that it's not clear enough. You know, we know the books. So, we get it. Yeah. We get the ultimatum. But I have several friends who didn't know about the Witcher beforehand, and they were quite confused. I mean, they didn't catch on to this whole ultimatum. They’re just, “Okay. They're in the street. They're fighting. These are the bad guys. Geralt is a good guy. Whatever. He just kills them. All right. Fine.” They didn't catch the whole moral question, which drives this whole scene and this whole story actually which is kind of sad really, because it's such a wonderful story. And I can't praise it enough. It's one of my favorite ones ever. So, yeah, it's, it's just a missed opportunity.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I think part of it is... it always seems like Geralt has an option to leave, but just doesn't take it. Just with the way that, I think, the characters are presented. Stregobor calls on him for his help and then Renfri proposes him a counter offer. But it doesn't feel like there's as much incentive for Geralt to stay involved in the show.

CYPRIAN: Yeah. Like, he, he just gets told by basically two strangers to kill the other one for them. Not even for money, you know. So, it's just, “You should do that, because something bad happens if you don't.” And he's like, “I don't know any of you guys. What's going on?” Right? So, I don't know. It's just – yeah.

ALYSSA: Reza, do you have any closing thoughts?

REZA: There is a bit more dialogue. And, by the end of it, Geralt does seem a bit less attached to Renfri. She actually kind of just begs him to stay and hold him. But, in the show, we just kind of see him do that anyway. It’s almost like he had some sort of respect to her.

ALYSSA: That was nice.

REZA: Yeah.

ALYSSA: In the way that they handled that. Yeah.

REZA: Yeah, that kind of did tie it up well. But that was a pretty big difference to me. Their choices, too. It’s just kind of a bit of back and forth.

CYPRIAN: Also, can we talk about the thing that really confused me as well, in the show? Is that, when Renfri eventually shows up, she has the girl hostage.

REZA: She didn't go to the tower at all.

CYPRIAN: No. I think she – I mean, yeah, that’s the thing. Like, we don't know where does she come from. Why wasn't she there to begin with? Why does she have this girl hostage? Because these are things which are explained in the books. She was, at the time, supposedly, at Stregobor’s tower urging him to come out because she has this whole ultimatum thing in the city. And she is explaining to him, “Hey, I have my guys in the town. And they're gonna start murdering people if you don't come out.” And, when she eventually then comes back, she saw all her guys dead, which actually points to a good point which I think we discussed in the book episode. Because we were discussing why does Renfri come back? The point I made was that probably because Stregobor called her out on her bluff. Again, with his magic, he saw the scene at the market and Geralt fighting and killing all of her guys. And she didn't have anything. Her ultimatum was resolved in the sense that all her guys died. She could have just gone there and said, “Hey, I have my guys at the market.” And Stregobor was like, “Yeah, right. How do I know?” So, she tells him, “Hey, use your magic. Look at the scene.” And then he actually sees Geralt killing all of them. We miss all of these things and these interpretations with the Netflix adaptation. They just chose to introduce her back into the scene with the hostage. She doesn't even kill her. I mean, luckily, she just tosses her aside and attacks Geralt. Like, I just fail to see, like, what's the whole point here? Why are they there?

ALYSSA: That was something that we spoke about. I guess Stregobor says, like, “I saw it all from my tower.” But we don't know for certain when he saw that, if he saw that before he sent Renfri away and just laughed at her.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, we don't know that. Exactly. That was just speculation on my part.

ALYSSA: Yeah. But, when you brought it up in our first discussion of this story, it made a lot of sense. That, if he did see the slaughter as it was happening, of course, he would just laugh Renfri away. Supposedly, again, from the book, Renfri tells Geralt that Stregobor told her that she could kill everyone in Blaviken and the neighboring towns, and he still wouldn't come down. So, that's when she kind of resolves herself and leaves. And we have no idea if her motive has changed to just leaving Blaviken outright, but it is when she then sees that Geralt has slaughtered all of her friends.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, there's a whole lot of things going under the surface in the books. It just gets lost because of the poor explanation. Yeah. It's a missed opportunity.

ALYSSA: I mean, ultimately, it doesn't take away from the legibility of the whole story. Like, people still understand what went on as you’ve said, um, but it just would have made the moral dilemmas for Geralt, Renfri, and Stregobor a little bit more complex.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, that's true. That's certainly true.

ALYSSA: In this episode, we also had two scenes that are implied in the books that we don't actually ever get to see or experience as readers. The first of which is the Kikimora fight that happens between Geralt and the kikimora and the other is the fall of Cintra.

CYPRIAN: There's a few changes and this one was actually really beneficial, I think, which was the very first scene, the fight with the kikimora. I mean it was mentioned in the books, but not described because he gets to Blaviken with the dead kikimora already with him. Really nicely done. And, again, another sign off showing, not telling us what he can do. So, it's a really good change. Yeah. Credit where credit is due.

REZA: Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah, showing, not telling is important. And I guess that could be a reason why they left the Tridam out. Just purely from, like, a filmmaking, I guess, point of view.

CYPRIAN: Interesting. I mean, it's a point to be made. Sure.

ALYSSA: And then the other thing that we see is the fall of Cintra. This is never seen in the books. We only hear some first and second-hand accounts of it in Sword of Destiny, Blood of Elves, and Baptism of Fire. But, in the books, Geralt first hears about the fall of Cintra in “Something More” from Dandelion, who was fleeing from Cintra while Geralt was trying to go south to Cintra. That's kind of what we got of it up until we start hearing firsthand accounts.

REZA: Yeah. And, throughout Ciri’s experience in the books, it is presented as like a haunting experience that follows her.

CYPRIAN: I don't blame her.

REZA: Yeah, it is pretty much a scar on her.

CYPRIAN: Yeah.

REZA: Yeah. But we get to see it, you know, full on everything happening, which is interesting. I think it's good that they showed it. It’s good world building. And it does, kind of… it increases the stakes. Its higher stakes.

ALYSSA: And, for us, as viewers, we actually get to see Cintra in its glory before it's then completely razed to the ground.

REZA: Yes.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And we get to connect with Calanthe, with Ciri, with Eist and even get to know, like, the names of their guards before they're all slaughtered.

CYPRIAN: Definitely adds to the – to the trauma. I mean you can understand better what Ciri was going through. Yeah. I'm a big fan of it. It's a good thing that they showed it because – I mean, most of us, I would imagine, didn't live through a sacking of their home city and, hopefully, never will. So, I mean we can only imagine what would that be like and the horrors of it. This does actually a pretty good job. I mean, you can see just all the horrible things that are going on; all the slaughter, all the suicides as well. And it just goes to show, like, what Ciri was going through at such a young age already. I mean she was pretty much lucky to survive it.

ALYSSA: Which I think sets the character of Ciri up really nicely for the rest of the season. Ss we'll see her storyline throughout all of Season 1 takes place in a much shorter timeframe than any of the other storylines that we'll explore for our main characters. So, a lot of fun stuff to cover in other episodes with both Ciri and Geralt and, as we'll see, a new third main character.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, it's a great set up. I mean there's a lot to come still, and... well done!

REZA: I'm excited to see what they bring for us in Season 2.

ALYSSA: Me too! So, that is it for our show today. Cyprian and Reza, thank you so much for joining us for this episode, and thank you to our hanza for listening. So, where can people find you? And is there anything that our community can help you with or anything that you'd like to share with them?

REZA: If you wanted to follow an aspiring aerospace engineer, so, it's @Rezanatorrr, R-E-Z-A-N-A-T-O-R-R-R. I wanted it to be one R at the end, but Instagram said no. But, yeah, it's been a privilege doing this. It's been really fun.

CYPRIAN: Yeah, it's great fun. I mean, I'm just glad I got to talk about this episode. Glad that worked out, especially with the time zones. I'm still chuckling about it.

REZA: Yeah. Hey, it was meant to be.

CYPRIAN: Right.

ALYSSA: Next episode, join us as we discuss the following episode of The Witcher Season 1 in our coverage of Episode 2, “Four Marks”.

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with the Breakfast in Beauclair theme by MojoFilter Media and the “Tidings from Toussaint” theme by Bettina Campomanes.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Mahakam Elder Joe, Julie, Sylvia of Skellige, Jamison, Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Jacob Meeks, and Sebastian von Novigrad.

Special thanks to Cyprian and Reza for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil

 

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Podcast EpisodeAlyssa EstebanNetflix's The Witcher S1