Ep. 11 — "The Eternal Flame" with Chris E. and Adi
Chris E. returns with his friend Adi to join Alyssa from GoodMorhen to discuss “The Eternal Flame” from Andrzej Sapkowski’s Sword of Destiny. Very important bits include: Our Thanksgiving-time speculation about the Netflix adaptation, historical economics and commodity trading, the history of pigments, Continent theology school, Chekhov's Gun, and Chris and Adi’s fan fiction about the notorious El Roacho.
This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.
In This Episode
[00:00] Cold Open
[00:00] Introduction
[00:00] Discussion
[00:00] “Tidings from Toussaint”
[00:00] Discussion
[00:00] Outro & Credits
Relevant Links
Link
Transcript
Cold Open
CHRIS: I like this chair because it’s creaky. It makes it seem like you're in an inn.
ADI: So—
CHRIS: ‘I’ll have that pint, barkeep!’
ALYSSA: Chris anything?
ADI: Chris.
CHRIS: No. Neigh!
Introduction
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across The Continent.
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[Episode Details]
As for this episode, Chris returns with his friend Adi to discuss “The Eternal Flame” from Andrzej Sapkowski’s Sword of Destiny. We recorded this episode a month before the Netflix premiere, so you’ll hear some of our Thanksgiving-time speculation about the adaptation while we host Continent theology school and discuss themes such as historical economics and commodity trading, the history of pigments, Sapkowski’s use of Chekhov's Gun, and Chris and Adi’s upcoming fan fiction about the notorious El Roacho.
Lars from WitcherFlix is on a much deserved holiday this week, so during the mid-episode break, I’ll host a special little edition of “Tidings from Toussiant” with celebratory news from members of our international hanza.
After the episode, head over to r/thehanza and jump into our community discussion with your thoughts, reactions to the episode, or bring up new themes and ideas that we didn’t cover.
Without further ado, let’s get to this episode’s short story, “The Eternal Flame”
Discussion
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa and joining me today are our friends Chris and Adi from Atlanta. Hey, guys!
ADI: Hey.
CHRIS: Hey, Alyssa.
ALYSSA: Some of you guys might recognize Chris from Episode 1 and Adi, who is his friend who tried to convince you to get into the Witcher Saga. So, that friend is Adi.
CHRIS: Yeah.
ADI: Yeah, that was me.
ALYSSA: And you failed miserably, right?
ADI: I pride myself as being a missionary for the Witcher. And Chris is one of my toughest converts.
ALYSSA: So, you started the job, and I finished it.
ADI: Yeah. We work as a good team.
ALYSSA: I'm into it. Chris, how are you?
CHRIS: I'm good. Glad to be back.
ALYSSA: It's, actually, Thanksgiving at the time of recording. So, I'm back in New Jersey, and Chris and Adi are home in Atlanta.
CHRIS: Yeah. We grew up here. Both our families are here. That's pretty much how we know each other.
ALYSSA: So, I think, as we spoke about in Episode 1, Chris, this is your first time reading the Witchers Saga. And you've currently read The Last Wish and Sword of Destiny compilations, correct?
CHRIS: Correct. And, Adi, you are very familiar with the Witcher Saga, right? Can you tell us a little bit about that?
ADI: That's right. So, I started playing Witcher III when it first came out. And, after that, I was immediately hooked. And then I read all the books in order, then I played Witcher III again. I watched the 90s Polish TV show, like, a couple of episodes here and there. I played Witcher III again. And, yeah – and I read the story again.
ALYSSA: So, what was it about the Witcher series that really got you hooked? Is there anything that stood out from any other franchises or titles?
ADI: Yeah. I'm a huge fantasy nerd. So, I love, you know, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, everything. And, so, I got into the series after playing the game. It was just like a match made in heaven. It was a perfect match for me.
CHRIS: Yeah. And then I got to spend several months with him badgering me and several other people to buy the game.
ADI: I told my co-workers and everything. Like, I told everyone to spread the word about the Witcher.
CHRIS: Every time it went on sale, he would be the first one to text me. He’d be like, “It's on sale. Just get it. You have nothing to lose. You'll love it.”
ALYSSA: Well, we love a profit. Today, Chris, Adi, and I will be discussing “The Eternal Flame,” the third short story in Andrezj Sapowski’s Sword of Destiny. In Part I, Geralt enters the city of Novigrad and runs into his friend, Dandelion, unsurprised to find him in trouble with a local woman, Vespula. After escaping the lover’s quarrel, the pair head to the Spear Blade, a tavern, and meet an acquaintance of Dandelion, Dainty Biberveldt, a halfling from a large merchant family. Suddenly, the door to the tavern bursts revealing… Dainty Biberveldt. Chaos ensues and the first Dainty Biberveldt, revealed to be a doppler is captured and questioned, then escapes. When the chapter first opens, Geralt has wandered into the city of Novigrad. The first thing that he hears or notes is the sound of something very heavy hitting the ground. And he notes that it's a jar of cherry preserve. And he comes across Dandelion, who unsurprisingly is having a quarrel with a local woman named Vespula, who's chucking things out of her home. And he's just kind of dodging them in the street. And that's, of course, the scene that opens the chapter.
CHRIS: My favorite part about that whole thing is just, like, this whole scene is unfolding. There's, like, the fight. And, like, Geralt comes up. He’s, like, “Hey, Dandelion.” He’s like, “Oh, hey, Geralt.”
ADI: And I like how she also chucks another dude's pants down.
ALYSSA: Yeah. So, Vespula is just so angry with the Dandelion, because, supposedly, he cheated, which is probably true. He doesn't necessarily believe in monogamy as we know about his character. So, she's kind of throwing all these things out the house. And she's like, “Take your belongings.” She throws him down a pair of pants, which he picks up. And he's like, “These aren't mine. They're too ugly to be mine. How can you get mad at me for being unfaithful and then throw another man's trousers at me?”
CHRIS: I mean he has a point.
ALYSSA: So, the whole thing is very absurd. I think, every time we see Dandelion, we always know we're in for a good time, especially in these short stories. He really reminds me of the comedian, Gabriel Iglesias. He has a friend named Martin. And, anytime he has a bit with Martin, you know, it's going to be a good time. And, yeah, he just reminds me of this.
ADI: In many ways, Chris is my Dandelion. And I'm, I'm Geralt.
CHRIS: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. What?
ADI: I just need a Roach.
CHRIS: I don’t why he has an issue about me being Dandelion.
ADI: Okay. Fine. Chris is my Roach, and I’m Geralt.
CHRIS: Okay. That's better. Where were we?
ALYSSA: Umm. We were talking about how, Chris, you're the ultimate sidekick.
CHRIS: Oh, yeah. No. So, I am a loyal steed. Adi, say something?
ADI: Oh, he – yeah. He's a great steed. He's fast. He’s strong. He's horse-like. Everyone gets a kick out of his equine wiles. Smells good. Not that he smells good, but he has powerful olfactory sensory mechanisms.
ALYSSA: What did I just listen to?
ADI: You guys forget that roach is also completely dispensable I guess. Geralt has called every single one of his horses, Roach.
ALYSSA: Yep.
CHRIS: So, what are you saying about me?
ADI: I name every one of my friends, Chris.
CHRIS: Anyways, back to Dandelion.
ALYSSA: Back to Dandelion and the story, Geralt enters Novigrad, runs into Dandelion. They're talking to us Vespula. Aand, eventually, he throws his loot. Dandelion catches it. And then, now that he's got his loot, he and Geralt decide to head off to the Spear Blade Inn. We learn a lot more about Novigrad, which is really exciting. And it is a destination that gamers can see in the Witcher III. It's a really blown out, beautiful city in the game. And, as I said, we learn a lot more about it here as Geralt talks to Dandelion. Dandelion calls it the capital of the world. And he calls it, the center and the cradle of culture. We hear that Novigrad has a population of about 30,000 plus travelers. And it has all sorts of facets of industry; things like brick houses, cobbled main streets, a seaport, all sorts of businesses. A mint, eight banks, nineteen pawnbrokers, manufactory, a castle, a guardhouse, yada, yada, yada. And then what Dandelion calls diversions. So, a scaffold, gallows, thirty-five taverns, a theater, a menagerie, a market, and a dozen whorehouses. I can’t remember how many temples, but plenty. So, we do hear that it's much more established than a lot of the other locations that we've seen throughout the Witcher.
CHRIS: I, I honestly have not gotten to that point in the game just yet. But, Adi, you play.
ADI: Yeah, it's great. It's crazy how much – like, if you actually look at Novigrad’s “square footage,” it's not, like, super big necessarily. But it is super dense.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ADI: CD Projekt Red did a great job in having, like, depth to the city so to speak. So, it really feels like it's really, really big.
ALYSSA: Mhmm. And there's a lot of places to explore, which is really nice. I always really liked the opportunity to just go looting everywhere in Novigrad.
ADI: Nice. They should really have cops. You know that TV show cops? They should really have one, but it was just [Inaudible 9:10].
CHRIS: You want police to be chasing, like, Geralt down an alleyway?
ALYSSA: I mean they do that. If you start taking out your sword and bashing things, everyone's on alert. But, if you go in and you just pickpocket a bunch of people—
ADI: Larceny is fine. Just don’t hurt anyone.
ALYSSA: You can get away with thievery, and it's okay.
CHRIS: I like the idea of Geralt, like, being chased down an alleyway on, like, you know, a 90s camcorder if it's cops. And then, like, tie him against, like, the wall. They're, like, searching him. They pull out a bag of weed. They're like, “Is this yours?” And Geralt is like, “No, no. It's definitely not mine.”
ADI: I'm just holding it for a friend.
ALYSSA: We do know that Fisstech.
ADI: Fisstech.
ALYSSA: Yes. It’s the drug of choice.
ADI: That's exactly what I was thinking about.
ALYSSA: Yeah. They do have something that seems like it's – like a cocaine equivalent in the Witcher worlds called Fisstech, but I also don't know anything about drugs. So, it could be a different kind of drug, but the drug of choice in the Witcher world is called Fisstech.
CHRIS: But where did – what was its origin? Like, who creates it?
ALYSSA: I have no idea, but it's referred to a couple times throughout the saga.
CHRIS: Who is the El Chapo equivalent in the Witcher universe?
ALYSSA: I have no idea. Maybe you should just write a fanfiction about it.
ADI: You should write erotic fan fiction about --
CHRIS: What?
ALYSSA: Why would it – why is it erotic?
ADI: Because it sells, people.
CHRIS: Yeah.
ADI: It can't be non-erotic fanfiction. It has to sell.
ALYSSA: Okay, that's true.
CHRIS: So, erotic fan fiction about drug use and some version of El Chapo named, I guess, El Roacho, because you find out Roach is actually the drug lord. So, this is—
ADI: And Roach is right under the nose of Geralt.
CHRIS: So, Geralt is the detective. And he's so inept at his job that the person he’s been searching for is the horse that he rides on daily.
ADI: Exactly. Now, get to writing. I want it on my desk by 3:00 PM today.
CHRIS: It's a Saturday.
ALYSSA: It's 1:30. You better get to it, Chris. So, we go with Geralt and Dandelion into the Spear Blade, which is really exciting. While they're there, Dandelion was meant to stop by in order to pay for going to the Spear Blade the day before. And there's a cute little exchange between Dandelion and the innkeeper, in which the innkeeper is just like, “I’m content to see you, minstrel, sir. I see that your word is indeed your bond. After all, you promised to stop by first thing to pay for yesterday’s exploits. And I—just imagine—presumed you were lying, as usual. I swear I am ashamed.” And Dandelion says back, “There is no need to feel shame, my good man for I have no money.” So, it’s just something that, like, I think is really wonderful about his character in this sort of unapologetic demeanor that he has. I find it really funny. While they're back there, Dandelion is kind of seeking a benefactor for his exploits. He first asks Geralt. Geralt, as they're walking to the inn in the first place, says he doesn't really have any money, because he spent it on, like, new goods as well as a new leather jacket. And then, when they get to the inn, Dandelion hears that Dainty Biberveldt, who's an acquaintance of his, is also there. Naturally, Dandelion goes to try to talk Dainty into being their benefactor, to paying for food, and a trip to a whorehouse.
CHRIS: No, we don't believe in whorehouses. This is a good Christian household. Actually, what denomination Christianity are we?
ADI: Ah, I’m – I was – I'm eternal flame.
ALYSSA: When we first get to the Spear Blade, we meet Dainty Biberveldt, who is a halfling. And halflings are a very specific class within the Witcher universe. So, we meet a few different kinds of nonhumans here for the first time. So, we got halflings, dwarves, and gnomes. Halflings, I would say, are most similar to, let's say. like hobbits. Dwarves, we already know. We've met in the Bounds of Reason before. And gnomes are also new to the Witcher universe for us reading through the series for the first time.
ADI: Yeah. Halflings, they're not fulllings. They’re not quarterlings, but half.
ALYSSA: The bard and witcher start talking to this halfling, Dainty Biberveldt, who is part of a large merchant family. So, Dainty is just kind of sitting, trying to eat. And then Dandelion strolls over and starts a conversation with him and introduces Geralt, the Witcher. Dainty seems rather hesitant. And he asks why Geralt is here. “Is he here on a contract? And Geralt just says, “No, I'm just here for pleasure.” And, as they're talking, the door to the Spear Blade slams open, and then in walks Dainty Biberveldt. The only difference is that the Dainty at the table is clean, and the Dainty in the doorway is very, very dirty. All of a sudden, there's two of them. And I think Geralt reacts the fastest. There's, like, a small brawl that breaks out. It turns out that the Dainty Biberveldt that was in the Spear Blade already, the clean one that was eating, is something called a doppler. It's also referred to as a changeling, a vexling, or a mimic. And it's, ultimately, a shapeshifter that has taken the form of Dainty Biberveldt.
CHRIS: So, the thing that's interesting is the – is the question that Dainty asked. Like, he gets a little nervous about the Witcher being there. So, it's kind of the first time that there's something wrong, kind of foreshadowing that there's something going on here, because why else would he be nervous about Geralt being there. Is he onto him? Does he know that he's a doppler?
ALYSSA: After the brawl breaks out, the Witcher is able to capture this doppler. And he wraps it up in a silver chain, which prevents it from transforming. So, it turns into something, Geralt notes, that looks like a mix of mud and flour. And it's just kind of droopy and, like, lumpy. And it just can't really hold shape. It's now in its natural form. The real Dainty Biberveldt starts threatening it, trying to kill it. And it turns out this doppler had attacked the real Dainty Biberveldt in the woods on his way to Novigrad, knocked him out, left him, presumably, for dead, and then took command of his company and his horses. When he got to Novigrad, the doppler sold the horses and is now at the Spear Blade. Throughout the chapter, there's a lot of talk of, like, trade and business that happens that's really important to follow along as you read. We learned a lot about dopplers here. And this is like a new class of monster, which we haven't encountered yet before. It's interesting here to really see, again, as we see repeatedly throughout chapters like The Edge of the Worlds in Episode 5, from The Last Wish as well as a number of others where you see the dynamic between humans and nonhumans, humans and monsters. The doppler asks like, “Have mercy. Don't hand me over to humans. Do you know what they do to the likes of me?” And the innkeeper, who was, like, kind of wandered in at this point says, “Naturally, we do. The priests perform exorcisms on any vexling they catch. Then they tie it up with a thick stick between its knees and cover it thickly with clay mixed with iron filings, roll into a ball, and bake it into fire until the clay hardens into brick. At least that's what used to be done years ago when these monsters occurred more often.” The real Dainty Biberveldt says, “A barbaric custom. Human indeed.”
ABI: Yeah. It reminds me of my favorite, favorite line for The Witcher ever, which is where somebody is like, “Oh, you're a witcher. You have two swords. One for humans, one for monsters.” And Geralt says, “No, they're both for monsters.” And I was like, “Whoa!” Also, what the fuck does this guy look like? This, this doppler? He – it's like he's, like, made out of clay or mud-ish.
ALYSSA: Yeah. He, apparently, looks like mud mixed with flour. But, for whatever reason, when I imagined it in my head, he's always kind of blue. Not for any good reason. And it's not supported by the text at all. But, in my own head, he's just like this translucent blue.
ABI: Yeah. I, I side with the innkeeper. If I saw that, I would have been like, “Yeah, this has gotta go.”
ALYSSA: I could add in a little more about dopplers from Geralt. Geralt, as a Witcher, he's obviously able to talk about the bestiary that exists on the continent. So, he tells the group that, “All a doppler has to do is observe its victim closely in order to quickly and unerringly adapt to the necessary material structure. I would point out that it’s not an illusion, but a complete, precise transformation. To the minutest detail. How a mimic does it, no one knows. Sorcerers suspect the same component with lycanthropy, but I think it’s either something totally different or a thousandfold more powerful. After all, a werewolf has only two—at most three—different forms, while a doppler can transform into anything it wants to, as long as the body mass, more or less, tallies. He won’t turn into a mastodon. Or a mouse. It’s not an exaggeration. Believe it or not, but, at this moment, it is you, Dainty. In some unknown way the doppler also precisely copies its victim’s mentality.”
CHRIS: I like how Dainty was confused by the word mentality. He’s like, “Mental what?” So, the one thing about this to me is like dopplers are, to me, one of the most powerful creatures, simply, because they can disguise themselves in all shapes and forms. There's no real way to know that it is a doppler unless you have the original.
ALYSSA: Mhmm.
CHRIS: So, you would think that the entire realm would just be occupied by dopplers because there's really nothing stopping them.
ALYSSA: And it could be for all we know.
CHRIS: This is true. Has no one else think of Ditto from Pokemon?
ALYSSA: Oh, of course.
CHRIS: That's what I'm thinking of.
ALYSSA: Maybe that's why I think of it as, like, translucent and amorphous.
CHRIS: Even, like, ditto. Like these creatures, it's very interesting to see what their, like, base form is. I still can't visualize. I imagine, like, it looks like when you try to make a chocolate cake and you didn't sift the flour so there’s just like clumps of flour in your chocolate cake batter. And you pour that on the floor and then tie a silver chain around it. And you're like, “That’s a doppler.”
ALYSSA: Maybe you should cosplay as that. Just cover yourself in cake powder. Yeah.
ABI: With a silver chain chained on. Just sit on the floor and be like, “Please. You don't know what humans will do to me.”
ALYSSA: Dope. The group start questioning the doppler, which we learn his name is Tellico Lunngrevink Letorte or Penstock or Dudu. So, the group continually, throughout the chapter, refer to him as Dudu. We learn that Dainty had journeyed to Novigrad to sell horses. And, a day’s ride from the city, his group camped, and while alone, he was knocked out by an apparition of himself. So, he wakes up by himself, but there’s no sign of his companions, and then walked the last two to three days to the city alone. In that time, Dudu was able to get up to a bunch of things while posing as Dainty. They try to figure out what's going on. It turns out that Dudu sold Dainty’s horses, but he has no money on him. So, now, they're trying to figure out, “Well, if you sold all these horses, where did the money go?” Dudu says that he sank it back into goods. When they asked him what the goods were, they're incredibly, incredibly nonsensical junk. Dudu tells them he bought a thousand bushels of cochineal, sixty-two hundredweight of mimosa bark, fifty-five gallons of rose oil, twenty-three barrels of cod liver oil, six hundred earthenware bowls and eighty pounds of beeswax. And then he mentions that he bought the cod liver oil very cheaply because it was a little rancid. And he also bought a hundred cubits of cotton string. And there's just the silence that falls over the group because it sounds like junk. Dainty is just like, “Oh, my god, this is the end of me. My reputation as a merchant is ruined. All my money is gone. How can I go home?” Yada, yada, yada. The entire thing takes a turn when this man arrives in a purple toga and a hat that's noted as looking like an upside-down chamber pot. Schwann comes in looking for Dainty and says that Dainty needs to pay taxes on the profit that he got. And Dainty is like, “What fucking profit?” And the witcher and Dandelion have to silence him because they can't let it out about the doppler. The doppler, in Schwann’s arrival, was able to escape. So, now, the real Dainty, Dandelion, and Geralt are dealing with Schwann on their own. Schwann tells Dainty that he owes Novigrad 1,553 crowns and 20 pennies, and he needs to pay it by tomorrow.
CHRIS: So, I know that they said that a doppler has to take the shape of something that it has the ability to closely analyze. It seems like it's just perfectly set up for them to be like, “Okay. Yeah. You take the shape of Dainty. And everything will be fine.” But that, obviously, is not the situation that unfolds. And I'm a little bit confused as to why they were like, “Yeah. We can have two Daintys in the room. The one that's not Dainty, leave him unchained and free and do whatever he wants. The whole scene seems like it's just poorly thought out.
ALYSSA: Well, there's a sense of urgency to the scene I think. They're not expecting Schwann for one. You have the innkeeper who keeps wanting to shout for the guards, but Dandelion, Geralt, and Dainty won't let him. So, when they suddenly have to deal with something and there's nowhere for the doppler to go, presumably, yeah, that's when they asked him to then turn into Dainty because he was just Dainty. I think you're right though. Like, why didn't they tell it to turn into like a dog or something like nondescript? But it's one of those things that – yeah, the plot.
CHRIS: I think the doppler outsmarted them, because – well, not to give away, I mean it's part of the story. But we do see, like, later on, that he has the ability from memory to, you know, turn into whatever he wants. So, he undoubtedly has come across other characters that he's turned into. So, he kind of tells him like, “Oh, it needs to be someone in this room.” So, he's already thought ahead to be like, “I just need to turn into one of you. It'll help with my escape.”
ALYSSA: I mean, ultimately, you're right. It does help him escape. We do know that halflings are very agile. And we see this a little later in the chapter, but we also note it for the first time here. In his escape, Dudu, as Dainty the halfling, throws the contents of a jug at Geralt, kicks the stool out from under Dandelion, and then just sprints out pass Schwann, and starts screaming bloody murder saying that there's, like, murder, a fire, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, and then just runs out and is gone.
CHRIS: And there is a second point to that, because, before all this happens – I forget who said it to Geralt. I think it was Dainty or the innkeeper, where he’s like, “You're a witcher. Why don’t you just kill him?” And the witcher is like, “I kill monsters? I don't kill anything with intelligence.” They look at the doppler, and they're like, “Yeah. The doppler, like, based on his appearance, barely looks like he qualifies as an intelligent creature. He, like, looks like these big eyes is, like, really sad-looking. He's like, you know, blubbery and being like, “Please don't get me up, whatever, whatever.” And, in this moment, we see that, oh, he's actually pretty conniving and pretty cunning, because he fooled like all of them.
ADI: Yeah. I think it's really cool that we see, like, these new type of monsters that are not necessarily scary per se, because, like, if you're looking at it from the conventional Western fantasy Tolkien-esque world, this is a fresh new way to look at them.
CHRIS: Because like dwarves and elves have humanistic characteristics.
ADI: That's the other – why this works.
ALYSSA: I mean they're still considered a class of nonhumans, but they definitely are more humanoid.
ADI: I think it is interesting how it could sort of, like, copy someone's mentality, but also – like, I don't want to jump the gun too much, but, somehow, can't copy their soul so to speak. Like, they still have their own personality in there. And the question is, like, that doesn't get erased.
CHRIS: Because that's the thing about clones. Its clones don't have, like, the memories.
ADI: Oh, I don't know. Do they have memories? Does the doppler have memories of Biberveldt – the real Biberveldt?
ALYSSA: I'm not sure, actually. I would say they don't have the memories of them. But I think they do take on the personality, the mannerisms, the habits.
CHRIS: Because—
ADI: They wouldn't have the memory, because I think Dudu was very confused when Dandelion came in and, like, screamed his name.
ALYSSA: Although, he did know where to go. Dudu did know where to go. Like, he knew which banker Dainty used. He knew where the Spear Blade was and, like, that it was probably Dainty’s tavern of choice. So, there were, like, little things here and there, but I don't know how much of that is ingrained or not.
CHRIS: I'm wondering if you could call that memory or if you call that, like, some form of intuition.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I wonder if it's intuition or impulse.
CHRIS: Impulse. Yeah.
ALYSSA: That's a good question. I mean, if anyone out in the universe has, like, any thoughts on it, write to us. Let us know. But I think, for the purposes of this story, I don't think we could answer that question for certain. In Part II, the witcher, bard, and halfling are confronted in an alleyway by Chapelle, the minister for security affairs for the Novigrad secret service, about the doppler. Dainty is suddenly found by a merchant acquaintance and the Guild’s treasurer, Muskrat, angry that Dainty has made an enormous profit on cochineal due to a coup in Poviss. In light of this news, Dainty takes Geralt and Dandelion to visit the banker Vimme Vivaldi, who may have some information for them.
ADI: Has Netflix announced who the actor for Chappelle is going to be? Because, if it is not Dave Chappelle, I'm going to be very upset.
ALYSSA: I don't think that they're adopting this story directly. We do know that they have cast dopplers for a couple of actors that aren't part of the story. So, I have a feeling we're going to learn about dopplers in the Netflix show, but they're not going to be part of The Eternal Flame.
CHRIS: Are any of them gonna be Dave Chappelle?
ALYSSA: No.
CHRIS: I hope, in Lars’ next segment, he's like, “Great news. Exciting news. Dave Chappelle has joined the Netflix series.”
ADI: You – you've had your ear to the ground better than I have about the show. So, they're not like direct adaptations. Like, okay, this is The Eternal Flame. This is A Shard of Ice’s exact replication of the story, right?
ALYSSA: It's a mix. It's a mix of things. So, we do know that certain characters have been cast. And we do know that certain adaptations are being done, as well as the fact that the order of them might be a little bit surprising, how they're told, and the way that the stories weave themselves in order to create a narrative that's not just about Geralt but also about Yennefer and Ciri in a way that isn't done in The Last Wish and Sword of Destiny books. We do know that they are adapting stories like The Witcher, The Lesser Evil, A Question of Price. The Edge of the World, I think, they're adapting as well. A Shard of Ice, I think, to some extent, maybe adopted, because we do know that Istredd is cast. The actual adaptation of them might be surprising. And I think they've broken apart some stories, pieced them together, taken monsters and characters here and there. And then also made new monsters, which is something that I think Lauren Hissrich talked about in an interview. She mentioned that her and Tomasz Baginski, who's one of the producers, went through Polish fantasy and Polish folklore, and created new monsters for the series that have, you know, some sort of fantastical precedents. So, we are meant to see dopplers in some capacity in the Netflix series, but I have a feeling that it's not going to be a direct adaptation of The Eternal Flame.
ADI: Okay, back to Part II.
ALYSSA: Part II, we are dropped outside with Dandelion, Geralt, and Dainty. They're trying to decide what to do. Dainty is, obviously, very upset that he has to pay this tax tomorrow, and he doesn't know what to do. It's 1,500 crowns, which is, you know, a lot. They’re soon surrounded by two groups of men and this man, Chapelle. Geralt is getting very antsy because he's being put in a situation that he doesn't like. He's getting this kind of fight feeling. And Dainty and Dandelion tried to tell him to stop, because this is someone who's incredibly powerful, and this is someone who's incredibly dangerous. Chappelle comes over to them, and he lets the group know the innkeeper at the Spear Blade accuse them with collusion with a changeling, a vexling. As they're getting into it, they start talking. And Chapelle is this very righteous person. He's part of the Secret Service in Novigrad, which is subservient to the Temple of the Eternal Flame. He brings up a few points. First of all, vexlings, dopplers, changelings are not real. Secondly, why would a vexling come up to a witcher and not be killed immediately? He says that the most vital detail is that, even if there were such things as vexlings, there can be none, because the eternal fire burns throughout the city. And anyone who says that a monster can step into Novigrad close to the eternal fire, close to where this religion and these temples are is a heretic.
CHRIS: Oh, I’m really enjoying all these people who come up to Geralt, and they're like, “This couldn't have happened, because, otherwise, it means you're bad at your job.”
ALYSSA: Yeah. That happens a lot, doesn't it?
ADI: Geralt’s profession is also one where it's, like, you know, like an exterminator. Technically, it works to make his job obsolete.
ALYSSA: Yes.
CHRIS: What a contradiction his business is.
ADI: Yeah.
CHRIS: That it is I think the worst of the businesses.
ALYSSA: Yeah. After Chapelle has laid out all the information that, one, vexlings aren't real. Two, they shouldn't be in Novigrad. And, three, how could a vexling approach a witcher? After Chappelle has laid all this information for Geralt, Dandelion, and Dainty, he takes Geralt away for a private word. And Geralt is very, very angry at this point. You hear some of his inner monologue. And he's like, “If he touches me, I'm going to kill him.” Like, stuff like that.
CHRIS: I know that feeling.
ADI: He sounds like an angsty, like, middle schooler. Like, “Oh, maybe Miss Richards starts a new game. And I’m just gonna, fucking, go. I don't respect authority, man. I just want to get out of this dump.
CHRIS: All right. Go on.
ALYSSA: That's kind of like what he's doing here. He's very, very upset. And, ultimately, there is a line that says like, “Chappelle didn't touch him.” When Chapelle asks, “What would be the price for you to get rid of a doppler?” Geralt tells him, “I don't hire myself out to hunt monsters in crowded cities. An innocent bystander might suffer harm.” Chapelle responds, “Are you so concerned about the fate of innocent bystanders?” And Geralt says, “Yes, I am. Because I am usually held responsible for their fate. And have to cope with the consequences.” This is something that I would assume has developed after stories like The Lesser Evil, where, you know, he ended up in a crowded town out at marketable places to fight Renfri. You know, no one had any idea what was going on. There was no context for why he was there fighting her and her gang. He slaughtered them all and was, ultimately, named to the butcher of Blaviken, which we know. This is an event that continually follows him and also informs a lot of his future decisions. This is something that we see here in his short interaction with Chappelle. And then we're also going to get to see in the show with Henry Cavill’s Geralt.
CHRIS: That was an amazing, amazing point. I didn't think about the character development they just exhibited. Also, I missed Renfri. She was a good character.
ALYSSA: The cool thing that we know is, in the Netflix series, Renfri wears a brooch in the trailer, and that's the brooch that, ultimately, ends up on Geralt's sword. So, we do know that he takes it along with him after that point. And it's always with him and always informs his decisions. At the end of the section, Chappelle gets a little preachy on Geralt and on the readers, but we do learn a little bit about the eternal fire and what it means. The sentiment behind it is actually really interesting and very beautiful as culty I think as it is. Chappelle says, “Do you know what the Eternal Fire is? A flame that never goes out, a symbol of permanence, a way leading through the gloom, a harbinger of progress, of a better tomorrow. The Eternal Fire, Geralt, is hope. For everybody, everybody without exception. For if something exists that embraces us all… you, me… others… then that something is precisely hope.” Yey, religion. I'm not a huge fan of organized religion, but I can appreciate a sentiment like this one.
CHRIS: What about disorganize?
ADI: Yeah. What about disorganized religion?
ALYSSA: I'm super into disorganized cults.
ADI: I am curious about the – this universe is religion. So, there's like the Prophet Lebioda. There's like Melitele. And then there's the Skellige, Freya or whatever. And then there's the eternal fire. And then there's, like, the Great Sun.
ALYSSA: It's a very rich world when it comes to religion, especially. And I think we might have talked about that in some other episodes, but there are local religions. There are broad ones. There are ones that have similar deities under different names. So, it's as rich, I think, as you'd find in, like, our world.
ADI: Yeah. But here's the thing that I also notice about, like, Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings, like, all the big fantasies, including the Witcher. It’s that, in the actual medieval world, everyone is talking about God like nonstop. Everyone's talking about religion, spiritualism, whatever nonstop. It's interesting that it's not as pronounced in a lot of these fantasy books. Like, it's there. As you – as you said, like, it's rich. It's really detailed, but the characters themselves are not walking around constantly talking about hell having whatever god.
ALYSSA: Yeah. Well, one, I think the different religions have different values when it comes down to it. For example, all the way in Episode 2, like the Church of Coram Agh Tera, the lion-headed spider has just like skulls, and bones, and green flames everywhere. And they probably value something much different than the Temple of Melitele, which is focused on womanhood and harvest. But, in terms of things like the Christian concept of Heaven and Hell, you're right, we don't see that in any of these religions. And I wonder if that's dictated by the religion or by the fact that all of our main characters aren't religious. So, we just don't learn about it, because they don't care.
CHRIS: Well, do we know that they're actually religious enough?
ALYSSA: As far as I know and, Adi, you can jump into, it doesn't seem like Geralt is particularly religious at all. He has, like, his own moral code. That code seems to be agnostic or atheistic.
CHRIS: I feel like he's just isn't a fan of organized religion.
ALYSSA: Yeah. But I mean he has his own values. Like, religion and personal values. societal values aren't necessarily, you know, mutually inclusive or exclusive.
CHRIS: Yeah. His views are constantly evolving.
ALYSSA: Yeah, exactly. It could be a matter of their profession that they choose – especially sorceresses, maybe they choose like science and magic over organized religion. We're not really sure.
ADI: This was a witcher, a theological man. Class.
ALYSSA: I'm into it. The very last bit that we get in Part II, we learn a little bit about what Dudu has been up to. After Chappelle leaves, Geralt, Dainty, and Dandelion are approached by this man, Muskrat. Muskrat runs overlooking for Dainty. It turns out that Muskrat is very upset because Dainty got a huge, huge, huge profit on the cochineal that he bought. Dudu rather had seemed to have bought all this junk. One of these things had been a ton of cochineal for seemingly no reason. And it turns out that there was a coup in Poviss. So, it turns out that the old clan in Poviss previously wore blue and the weaving mills there only bought indigo. But the color of the new ruling family is scarlet, so the price of cochineal has gone up. And it turns out that Biberveldt had the only available cargo and was able to set the price. Presumably, this is, like, insane, like, insider trading of some sort.
ADI: Yeah. How would he possibly know? How would anyone possibly know that?
ALYSSA: We have no idea.
CHRIS: Yeah, right.
ADI: What is cochineal?
CHRIS: Oh, yeah.
ALYSSA: I think it's just a pigment. I think it's a red pigment.
CHRIS: Let’s Google that real quickly. We're looking it up. It --
ADI: What the hell is this? It's like a bug. It’s a scale insect in the suborder Sternorrhyncha.
CHRIS: Oh, it’s like the bug that they made like red pigment. You know, how like, like red dye that they use in like Skittles and stuff is, is made from ground beetles.
ADI: Jesus, I did not know that. I wish I did not know that. Well, Skittles gotta skip.
ALYSSA: I was actually watching something not too long ago on how they create pigments. In historical oil paint, they were saying that, like, some of the best oil paints up to 75 percent of the paint itself is pigment. Historically, they used to derive it from all sorts of places.
CHRIS: It's a very smart thing to do just to think about, like, how many bugs have we crushed to get color out of them. And, also, like, things like people, you know, hunting muskrats for their glands to make perfume.
ADI: Yes.
ALYSSA: It must have been the video that I saw. I think it’s a snail. And you needed, like, thousands of these snails to make, like, two grams.
ADI: Yeah, to make purple dye. Yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah. It was purple I think. Thousands of them for, like, two grams. It was insane.
ADI: They're a snail type of, like, shell creature. And, on the banks of, like, the – what we call the Levant, they would, like, harvest them. And they would crush them. And they would turn them into purple dye. And they would sell that to Rome where they would make, like – you know, put that into togas or whatever.
ALYSSA: Well, speaking of, Schwann is wearing a purple toga.
ADI: He is. I was about to say that.
ALYSSA: So, apparently, it's called Tyrian purple. One gram of this dye is made from the secretion of 10,000 large sea snails, which is crazy.
CHRIS: Dude, that’s a lot of crushing of, like—
ADI: Snails.
CHRIS: Yeah.
ADI: That’s a lot of snail crushing.
CHRIS: That’s sad.
ALYSSA: It is really sad. Well, anyway, so, now that we know what cochineal was—
CHRIS: Yeah. Part III is actually the one that I'm excited about because then we engage in commodity trading.
ALYSSA: With all this new information about what Dudu has been up to while he's imposing as Dainty, Dainty makes the decision to go to a bank close by, which is run by his dwarven friend, Vimme Vivaldi. And that takes us to the end of Part II. So, before we visit Vimme Vivaldi with the witcher, halfling, and bard, we're going to take a quick break. And, when we return, Chris, Adi, and I will continue with “The Eternal Flame”.
“Tidings from Toussaint”
[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]
ALYSSA: Hey, it's Alyssa with a special edition of “Tidings from Toussaint.”
A week ago, I asked members of our international hanza what amazing things they achieved in 2019. And for this week’s news segment, I wanted to celebrate their achievements with you!
Our friend Christiaan launched his coffee company this year, MOJOE.coffee! MOJOE was the very first sponsor of the podcast back in Episode 4, and I’m really excited to see where his business takes off to in 2020.
Jamison welcomed his fifth child into the world.
Tommy and his wife had their first.
Aurore passed her driving test.
Gari made it to his last semester of college.
Heather got into grad school.
Robb landed a full time job.
Dalton got engaged.
Lea married her best friend.
Franzi did a lot of traveling this year.
Madi moved across the US, bought a house, and started writing again.
John wrote, directed, and staged his own sketch comedy shows in Texas.
Abbe created his own musical score.
Shaun, along with 11 other members of our community, took part in our cover of “Toss A Coin To Your Witcher,” which has racked up nearly ten thousand views in the last two weeks and caught the attention of composer Sonya Belousova, writer Jenny Klein, and the bard himself, Joey Batey.
Many members of our community also wrote about making strides in other areas, such as overcoming anxiety, leaving toxic relationships with friends or family, changing their relationships with mental health, and coming into their own identity; accomplishments that might be outwardly invisible, but should also be celebrated. Those are some of the toughest battles and myself and this hanza are here for you.
Lastly, thank you so much for helping me build this community. Launching the show has been one of my greatest accomplishments of the year and I can’t wait to see how our community grows in the next.
Well, guys, that's it for me for today. Lars will be back in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!
[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]
Discussion
ALYSSA: Thanks for the update, Lars. Welcome back from the break. I'm here with our friends, Chris and Adi, to continue our discussion of the third short story from Andrzej Sapkowski’s Sword of Destiny, The Eternal Flame. When we left off Geralt had arrived in Novigrad, where he and the bard, Dandelion, met an acquaintance, Dainty Biberveldt, who turned out to be not Dainty but rather a doppler named Dudu. After the doppler escapes, Geralt, Dandelion, and the real Dainty Biberveldt hunt for the creature by piecing together the doppler’s bizarre purchases and trades. In Part III, Dainty, Geralt, and Dandelion are informed by Vimme Vivaldi, a dwarven banker, of the events of the last three days. As it turns out, the doppler’s seemingly nonsensical purchases have all turned a profit for political or cultural reasons: the cochineal for the coup in Poviss; imported mimosa bark as an alternative for Temerian oak bark, used for tanning hides, which is suffering an embargo, and so on. Dainty now has a staggering 21,969 crowns and 5 pennies in his account from Dudu’s influence. Upon hearing that the other Dainty Biberveldt is in the market, the group go to confront him.
ADI: Yeah. How does the doppler know everything? Like, he knows about the coup in Poviss. How does he know that? He knows about the druid embargo. How does he know that?
ALYSSA: I think we don't know that he knows.
CHRIS: I think it’s – oh, it's way too opportune.
ALYSSA: I mean, it's very opportunistic or, at least, it appears to be at first.
CHRIS: The thing I like is this entire chapter is just Geralt and Dainty being, like, told you're bad at your jobs.
ALYSSA: A little bit.
CHRIS: Because Dainty is just like, “What the hell's going on? He's made more money than I have, like, in – like, the year that I've been working.”
ADI: That is also odd. If you copy someone exactly, presumably, they would be at the same skill level. That's my other question. As a doppler, you adapt the mannerisms and the mentality of the other person. But do you still maintain the innate doppler-ness?
ALYSSA: Both of these questions, for, one, how does the doppler know everything and why does he continue to be a merchant. I think all of these questions are things that we're going to get to in the fourth part.
CHRIS: Also, like, how Vivaldi tries to surmise everything and is making it seem like Dainty’s thought process – well, technically, Dudu’s, but he thinks Dainty’s thought process for how he, like, cornered the market so efficiently and so well is, like, this conniving and, like, oligarchal, monopolistic way that Dainty is trying to, like, corner the market. But Dainty is just like, “I gotta go.”
ALYSSA: So, we're learning what's gone on the last few days as Geralt, Dandelion, and Dainty do. We get all this information from Vimme Vivaldi, who's been in contact with the fake Dainty, Dudu, the last three days. So, Dudu had gone to Vimme Vivaldi a few times asking for loans and backed credit, et cetera, et cetera in order to purchase all this stuff. When the group comes in, there are all these little gnomes running around. And Geralt or the narrator keeps calling them little somethings in hats, which comes across as really adorable when you actually read the book. These – all these little somethings are wandering around just shouting out updates from the market. They keep giving information on the price of the Mimosa bark. Then another one will run in and be like, “But Dainty Biberveldt says to wait.” And then he keeps running out. But, obviously, the real Dainty Biberveldt is sitting in the room, but they're getting updates from this phantom Dainty Biberveldt that's apparently somewhere else. And, apparently, Dudu has instructed these gnomes and Vimme Vivaldi to wait for a seven-fold profit. And Dainty is just like, “Six and one-sixth is good enough. You've already turned over six-fold profit.” And these little gnomes keep running in and being like, “But Dainty says to wait,” and then they run out.
CHRIS: And, especially towards the end of it, Dainty initially is like saying things against what Dudu wants. And then, towards the end, you see Dainty just be like, “No, let's just keep going to where Dudu’s target is?”
ADI: So, they're gnomes. They're halflings. They're dwarves.
CHRIS: Why, why is Dandelion freaked out by gnomes?
ALYSSA: I don't think gnomes are as prominent in the Witcher worlds. I think there's only a few examples that we see of gnomes.
ADI: I think this is the only one as far as I can remember.
ALYSSA: There's a gnome. There's Percival Schuttenbach.
ADI: Oh, that's right. That's right. That’s right.
ALYSSA: Yeah. So, he's the only other gnome I could think of throughout the entire series, but this is our very first encounter with a gnome. And Geralt knows what they are, Dandelion doesn't.
CHRIS: What is Vimme Vivaldi?
ALYSSA: Vimme Vivaldi is a dwarven banker. I don't really think they show up too much; gnomes at least comparatively to dwarves. Dwarves, I would say, show up the most, and then halflings, and then gnomes. Both gnomes and dwarves are known for metal works, swords, that sort of thing. One of the things that Vimme Vivaldi brings up as he's recounting the events from the last few days, he tells the group that, “The Eternal Fire, as it’s known, is supposed to burn everywhere. Altars dedicated to that fire are going to be built everywhere, all over the city. A huge number of altars. Don’t ask me for details, Dainty, I am not very familiar with human superstitions. But I know that all the priests, and Chapelle also, are concerned about almost nothing else but those fires and that fire. Great preparations are being made. Taxes will be going up, that is certain.” We get this, like, nugget of information that doesn't seem terribly important and that seems more to be a world-building piece of information as opposed to something that supports the plot. But that is something to remember. Like this little bit about the eternal fire from the Vimme Vivaldi, because we also got a little bit of information from one of these gnomes. And the gnome runs in and says, “Merchant Biberveldt instructs to buy more pots, should they run out. Price is no object,” and then the the gnome runs out. We find out that Dudu, posing as Dainty, is in the western market. At the very end of the chapter, Vimme Vivaldi asks if the cod liver oil, the wax, those bowls that twine if it was a tactical gambit to distract everyone from the cochineal and the Mimosa, which Dudu got a huge profit on.
ADI: The doppler was like buying random shit.
CHRIS: Yeah. No. It's like speculative commodity trading. This is where our economic degrees come in handy.
ADI: Thanks, economics. So, there's a difference between value investors and speculative investors. And it looks like what Dudu is doing is – you know, like, speculative investors will buy cans of sardines, gets the sardines, have no use to them. Obviously, they'll just buy it, because the price will rise in the future.
CHRIS: What, what is funny to me is it is kind of similar to the Hansa approach. The—
ADI: Price fixing?
CHRIS: Yeah, the historical Hansa in Germany.
ALYSSA: Okay.
CHRIS: Which, I'm assuming, Sapkowski is, like, pretty familiar with, which their whole thing was like buying goods that are otherwise completely useless like cans of sardines, but they would buy all of it. And they would have a monopoly on it. And they would just jack the price up.
ALYSSA: Interesting.
CHRIS: So, that seems similar to what Dudu is trying to do.
ALYSSA: And we definitely get into, like, the details of it much later when they actually explains the reasons for why he's doing everything. They're interrupted, at this point, by another gnome who says that “Sorrel reports that everything is ready! And asks if he should start pouring.” The real Dainty, our Dainty says like, “Yes, at once!” No one knows what’s going on. And Dainty admits that he doesn’t know what’s going on, but the wheels of business must be oiled. And that's the end of Part III. In Part IV, Dainty and Geralt give chase to the doppler in a crowded Novigrad market. The witcher corners Dudu in a stall where he first takes on Geralt’s form, then Dandelion’s. After a brief exchange, Geralt lets the doppler go, but he’s attacked by Vespula, Dandelion’s angry lover. After Geralt captures the doppler, he’s caught up to by Dainty, Dandelion, and Chappelle, who’s revealed to be a doppler himself. Dudu is accepted as a distant cousin of the Biberveldt family as Dainty’s factor in Novigrad. The group celebrates the doppler’s earnings, Geralt included, with a trip to the Passiflora on the Biberveldt tab.
CHRIS: It’s a nice, wholesome, family-friendly ending.
ADI: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Let's take a trip to the whorehouse.
ADI: All have a happy ending. Literally.
ALYSSA: This part opens with Geralt kind of wandering the market. And he sees Vespula, like, arguing with some merchant. And then he just kind of hides and runs away before she can see him and recognize him. Eventually, though, they do get their eyes on Dudu as Dainty, and they start giving chase. There's an interesting line that says it was very clear why Dudu wasn't changing into anything else and staying as a halfling because nobody could match the agility of a halfling other than another halfling, Dainty or Witcher. So, eventually, Geralt corners Dudu in this, like, cold storage tent. He's completely trapped. There's no way in or out of the tent other than straight through Geralt. So, the doppler and the witcher start talking. The doppler asks, “Why are you tormenting me?” Geralt says, “Tellico, you’re asking foolish questions. In order to come into possession of Biberveldt’s horses and identity, you cut his head open and abandoned him in the wilds. You’re still making use of his personality and ignoring the problems you are causing him. The Devil only knows what else you’re planning, but I shall confuse those plans, in any event. I don’t want to kill you or turn you over to the authorities, but you must leave the city. I’ll see to it that you do.” Dudu changes into Geralt briefly. Geralt is like, “Eww. Is this what I look like?” He's like, “I’m hideous. Gross”
CHRIS: Yeah.
ADI: Yeah.
CHRIS: Eww.
ALYSSA: And there's like a whole thing about that. But it's interesting, because, like, when Geralt reaches for a sword, so does the doppler. When Geralt swings a [Inaudible 48:10] so does the doppler. The doppler says, “I am you. You will not gain an advantage over me. You cannot defeat me, because I am you!” And Geralt responds, “You cannot have any idea what it means to be me, mimic.” And Dudu repeats, “I am you.” “No,” the witcher countered, “you are not. And do you know why? Because you’re a poor, little, good-natured doppler. A doppler who, after all, could have killed Biberveldt and buried his body in the undergrowth, by so doing gaining total safety and utter certainty that he would not be unmasked, ever, by anybody, including the halfling’s spouse, the famous Gardenia Biberveldt. But you didn’t kill him, Tellico, because you didn’t have the courage. Because you’re a poor, little, good-natured doppler, whose close friends call him Dudu. And whoever you might change into you’ll always be the same. You only know how to copy what is good in us, because you don’t understand the bad in us. That’s what you are, doppler.”
ADI: Pwe-pwe.
CHRIS: That's actually a very, like, positive thing to say. You know, it makes the doppler seem, like, such a gentle character.
ADI: Yeah.
CHRIS: And you're kind of like, “Why don't – why don't they just take over?”
ADI: He just doesn't have the gumption to kill.
ALYSSA: I mean Geralt had said earlier in the chapter – because the group have had questions for Geralt about, “Isn't it an aggressor?” And Geralt says, “Well, it mostly uses the shape-shifting for defense rather than aggression.” And then Dainty is obviously upset by it, and he's like, “No. Well, he hit me in the head. He's definitely aggressive.”
CHRIS: It's also funny how Dudu is, like, this character whose literal skill is to assimilate. And they're the ones of all the characters having the most trouble assimilating.
ALYSSA: There's this very long monologue. After turning into Geralt, the doppler, Dudu, eventually turns into Dandelion instead and confronts the Witcher. He says, “I'll tell you what I'm going to do witcher. I'll go on my way, squeeze my way into the crowd, and change quietly into any-old-body, even a beggar. Because I prefer being a beggar in Novigrad to being a doppler in the wild. Novigrad owes me something, Geralt. The building of a city here tainted a land that we could have lived in; lived in, in our natural form. We have been exterminated, hunted down like rabid dogs. I'm one of the few to survive. I want to survive, and I will survive. Long ago when wolves pursued me in the winter, I turned into a wolf and ran with the pack for several weeks. And survived. Now, I’ll do that again, because I don't want to roam about through wildernesses and be forced to winter beneath fallen trees. I don't want to be forever hungry, I don't want to serve as target practice all the time. Here, in Novigrad, it’s warm, there's grub, I can make money and very seldom do people shoot arrows at each. Novigrad is a pack of wolves. I'll join that pack and survive. Understand? You gave dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and even elves the modest possibility of assimilation. Why should I be any worse off? Why am I denied that right? What do I have to do to be able to live in this city? Turn into a she-elf with doe eyes, silky hair, and long legs? Well? In what way is the she-elf better than me? Only that at the sight of the she-elf you pick up speed, and at the sight of me you want to puke? You know where you can stuff an argument like that. I'll survive anyway. I know how to. As a wolf I ran, I howled and I fought with others over a she-wolf. As the resident of Novigrad, I'll trade, weave wicker baskets, beg or steal; as one of you, I'll do what one of you usually does. Who knows, perhaps I’ll even take a wife?” And then Dudu talks back at Geralt saying like, “You're not going to try to stop me. Because I, Geralt, knew your thoughts for a moment. Including the ones you don't want to admit to, the ones you even hide from yourself. Because to stop me, you'd have to kill me. And the thought of killing me in cold blood fills you with disgust. Doesn't it?” It's a very loaded monologue from Dudu.
CHRIS: I like that he's like, “I might even take a wife.” First off, that's insinuating that dopplers have genders. Secondly, what would you do if you married someone – 20 years of perfect marriage, you know, three kids. Come home and there's just mud mixed with flour in your bed.
ADI: Honey, you may want to sit down for this. I got something to tell you.
CHRIS: But it is a very deep moment where you kind of see, like, the level of insight, the emotion that's carried with Dudu. So, he obviously hits, you know, Geralt in this particular point, which is like, “You know, you're part of a group that is ostracized. Why can't I try to live and survive the way that you do?” The message is not lost on Geralt, obviously, because he lets him go. And then it turns to, you know, the comical Three Stooges scene.
ALYSSA: Dudu leaves the tent as Dandelion, and he starts singing. He starts, like, winking at girls, and he's very Dandelion as he's walking out. And Geralt follows him very slowly. Vespula comes out of nowhere and attacks the doppler with a very large frying pan. The hit makes Dudu kind of fall apart. And Geralt sees this and wraps him up in a rug very quickly, and then just, like, holds him.
CHRIS: I don't know what the hell she's been doing this entire time, besides to show up and is like, “I still got things to throw at you.” And I can't imagine what Dudu is thinking.
ADI: Bashed in the skull by, like, the pot or whatever.
CHRIS: Which is a very comical turnaround of, like, you know, this deep emotional scene. And this woman just comes and bashes him in the head with a pan.
ADI: Yeah. We just wanted some like – Dudu just turned right. He's walking away. Here I Go Again plays, by Whitesnake. The credits just started to roll. And he just gets smacked in the head by this frying pan.
ALYSSA: I mean the whole thing is like incredibly, incredibly comical, which I think, as you said, every time we see Dandelion, it's definitely an indicator that it's going to be a fun scene, full of high jinks, and all sorts of chaos.
CHRIS: I also give the credit to Sapkowski for – and I forget what the term for the literary tool is. But when you introduce something in the very beginning of the story and then reintroduce it towards the end when you've already forgotten about it and don't think it could have any role in the plot anymore. And here it ends up having a role in the plot, because this whole situation allows us to move forward to the second half.
ADI: You know, Anton Chekhov.
ALYSSA: It's like the thing about the loaded gun, right?
ADI: Yeah, exactly.
CHRIS: Oh, yes, Chekhov’s loaded gun.
ADI: Chekhov’s gun.
ALYSSA: So, Vespula is totally the gun in this case. Like, we see here loaded in the beginning, and then she completely goes off by the end. As Geralt is, like, either sitting on top of or holding this kind of wrapped up doppler, Dainty and the real Dandelion show up, which, upon seeing a second Dandelion, Vespula runs off. A crowd begins to form. When Chappelle arrives, the entire crowd disperses. The Witcher is very protective of this blanket, which is currently wrapped around the doppler. And Chappelle comes very close to Geralt, and then starts talking to Dudu as Dudu. So, Chappelle leans over and tells, like, “Dudu, like, turn into Biberveldt, like, now.” And everyone is sufficiently confused.
CHRIS: Well, that's where it all comes together.
ALYSSA: Yes, this is 100 percent where it all comes together, not only with the character development in the plot but also with all of the trading. We learned a lot more about Dudu’s actions and the purpose for them. Chappelle asks Dainty after Dudu has transformed into him, “Who do you think that is Dainty? Very similar to you, don't you think?” The halfling looks at Chappelle and says, “He's my cousin. A close relative. Dudu Biberveldt of Knotgrass Meadow, an astute businessman. I’ve actually just decided…I’ve decided to appoint him my factor in Novigrad. What do you say to that, cousin?” And then Dudu accepts his position as the newest Biberveldt. Geralt asks, “Has your dream about life in the city come true? What do you see in this city, Dudu… and you, Chapelle?” And Chappelle mutters back, “Had you lived on the moors and eaten roots, got soaked and frozen, you’d know. We also deserve something from life, Geralt. We aren’t inferior to you.” And Geralt asks, “What happened to the real Chappelle?” And this fake Chappelle, who we now know as a doppler says, “Popped his clogs. Two months ago. Apoplexy. May the earth lie lightly on him, and may the Eternal Firelight his way. I happened to be in the vicinity… no one noticed… Geralt? You aren’t going to—” And then Geralt says, “Notice what?” He also asked, “Is there more of you?” The fake Chappelle asks, “Is it important?” And Geralt says, “No, it isn’t.” Giving us just a circle back around to the question that you guys had earlier, we really don't know how prominent they are in society, because their nature is that they blend in so well.
CHRIS: Well, yeah, Chappelle comes in. Nobody had any idea. They did foreshadow it. Dainty was saying like, “I don't understand how he’s still alive. I know he's had heart problems.” And then, you know, now, we find out like, “Oh, well, he apparently did have heart problems.” It kind of worked in Chappelle 2.0’s version – in his favor.
ALYSSA: I mean there's a brief part in Part III where Vimme Vivaldi, after finding out that Chappelle is kind of onto Dainty, says that “You know, there's something, like, all the virtuous about Chappelle after his last bout of, like, whatever.” Dainty can't believe it. He's just like, “Pssh, Chappelle, like, righteous?” He was like, “There's no way.” And then, as it turns out, it was actually a doppler. But I think we can assume, based on what we know about dopplers and on Dudu’s transformation into Dainty and also Chappelle. 2.0 saying, like – when he talks about the real Chappelle, he's like, “Oh, may the earth lie lightly on him, and may the Eternal Firelight his way.” There's probably still a little bit of the real Chappelle’s personality in there despite it being a doppler. So, little impulses and intuitions and instincts that we had previously talked about are probably still there despite the real Chappelle being dead.
CHRIS: I want to know what the situation was that Chappelle 1.0 was just, like, by himself, has his heart attack, and there's, you know, conveniently this pile of mud mixed with flour just next by being like, “Well, this is an opportunity.”
ADI: It’s a one in a million shot. That's like winning the lottery.
CHRIS: Yeah, actually, it is. Also, it's interesting that they have a community or a sense of community. How many dopplers are there helping each other out?
ADI: There is a recurring theme in the Witcher, where humans actually ultimately get their way. Even if they're fighting like really hardcore monsters, eventually, they just do find a way, and they kill everything.
ALYSSA: I think it's the same sort of like colonization that we see not only in our own world, but in the Witcher world as well. This kind of full frontal attack on everything and anything that we can take. You know, it's everything from taking land from monsters and creatures to taking land from elves and dwarves. Dudu does say in his monologue to Geralt in this part, “We could have lived here. Like, the city has now tainted a land that we could have lived on in our natural form.”
ADI: Good point.
ALYSSA: So, the very last thing that we get in this part is learning why Dudu was doing what he was doing. So, we found out that all the raw materials that Dudu had sourced cost 45 crowns. He eventually sold whatever he'd made for four crowns a piece, which took in 2400 crowns. So, as it turns out, the cod liver oil, wax, and oil dyed with a little cochineal need only be poured into earthenware bowls with a piece of string dipped into it. The string, when lit, gives a beautiful, red flame, which burns for a long time and doesn’t smell. The Eternal Fire. The priests needed vigil lights for the altars of the Eternal Fire. Now they don’t need them.” All this desperate, nonsensical junk that he seemed to buy was really to manufacture something new and something that was needed and nontaxable. It was a very clever ploy on Dudu’s part.
ADI: So, all this, like, coup in Poviss – all that stuff is just like, it just so happened to be that all these are going on at the same time?
ALYSSA: That would be my guess. My guess is that the selling of the extra cochineal that he had to Poviss was more of an opportunistic move. It seems like that he bought the cochineal in order to make those vigil lights. And then it just so happened that the coup in Poviss happened. He already had the wares in the stores. So, he was able to ship it off and make a profit. At least, I, I would make the assumption that he didn't know about the coup. It just so happened that he already had it.
CHRIS: If your theory is true, then Dudu had no intention of making money. He just wanted to buy the materials and then use that. But the opportunity arose where he could make money. And then, at the end of the story, the additional opportunity arises where he can assimilate successfully by taking on the position as Dainty’s cousin.
ADI: Right.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
CHRIS: I'm also not sold on if that was his initial intention.
ALYSSA: To make this stuff for the eternal fire?
CHRIS: Yeah. Because he said that it made it tax-exempt, but that it is a side effect of him selling the goods in the way that he did.
ALYSSA: Yeah, because he eventually made those candles. And, because the candles were done in the service of religion, he didn't have to pay a tax on candles.
CHRIS: Right. But he sold the cochineal for the uniforms.
ALYSSA: So, that would be taxed.
CHRIS: Wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's why he has to pay tax in the first place because the cochineal made a bunch of money, and that's why What's His Name came after him for the tax money. So, the cochineal, he could not have known was going purely to the candles.
ADI: We need to do some forensic accounting. We need to crack open his accounting books. Hey, I went to an accounting camp when I was 16. I’ll do it.
ALYSSA: That sounds like the most boring kind of camp.
ADI: You would be not incorrect. But what was his original motive? It was just to make a ton of money? What just, like, live in Novigrad?
ALYSSA: I would assume that, because he had assaulted Dainty in the woods, he must have already been there for god knows how long. But he might have just been in the woods in his doppler form, and Dainty might have just been a very easy way to get to Novigrad as some sort of, you know, acceptable being. So, now that we've wrapped up all the plot points for this chapter, The Eternal Flame, did you guys have any additional thoughts on it?
ADI: It's like a really fun story. Again, it's interesting to see some of these characters come up again in Witcher III.
CHRIS: I really enjoyed the overall message of the story. I thought it was pretty significant and substantial sort of this, you know, minority character that's trying to just live and survive and assimilate. I really enjoy uses of Chekhov’s gun and the ability to sort of make a plot come around. So, all the characters involved, they eventually come and finish off the story in a nice happy, overall positive way, which is not too common in a lot of The Witcher stories.
ALYSSA: Mhmm.
CHRIS: It's kind of a nice break from Geralt having to just like murder incessantly.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ADI: Because I know it is a super serious story, but just, like, way chiller.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I don't think he murders anyone in this – in this whole story.
CHRIS: Yeah. I don't think a single person dies. Does anybody die? Well besides Chappelle, but I think Chappelle probably died before the start of the story.
ADI: Yeah, no one dies.
ALYSSA: Like, three days without accidents on the job.
ADI: Yeah.
CHRIS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: We'll reset the clock after the story. I mean I think one of the greatest things about this story is, as you said, like the characters, the way that they're used, and the humor. It does a really nice job of exemplifying the kind of humor that you can find in Sapkowski’s work and in this saga. It's very fun. It's very self-referential and a little bit meta at times. It doesn't take itself too seriously, which I think is really nice for high fantasy. And it makes the whole thing very enjoyable and very palatable. It's one of the things that I admire most about Sapkowski’s work or, at least, the dialogue. And a lot of that is done so well here with all the characters’ unique and distinct voices. And then I think the last thing that we see here, which we've already talked about and that isn't a new idea is how nonhumans assimilate – aren't allowed to assimilate into human society. So, this is something that we've already explored in things like The Edge of the World, as well as a few other different short stories and as we'll see in the saga. But this idea of assimilation and the relationships between humans and nonhumans continually comes up throughout the story.
ADI: Yeah. It's I think the main, main, main, like, theme of this whole corpus.
ALYSSA: Yes.
CHRIS: I mean it does feel like a nice break from the main story.
ALYSSA: Mhmm.
ADI: Yeah, it is a fun little break.
ALYSSA: So, did you guys have anything else that you wanted to add?
ADI: Go watch the Polish show.
ALYSSA: Yes. We've heard a little bit about the Polish adaptation from our friends, Cyprian as well as Anita and Karolina from Witcher Kitchen and, now. Adi.
ADI: Just have fun. If you don't like it, just pretend it never happened.
ALYSSA: So, that is it for our show today. Chris, Adi, thanks for joining us for this episode and thank you to our Hanza for listening. Is there anything that our community can help you with or anything that you'd like to share with them?
ADI: It's funny that you mentioned up the whole Chappelle profits, tax. I'm a PhD student. One of the things that study is comparative tax systems. And it's really interesting to dive into, like, medieval taxes and, like, really old school taxes, which I know to most people would sound super dry and boring. But it was really fascinating the way that they had – even as far as back as the 13th century, for example, they had direct taxes. So, they tried their best to say, “Oh, if you're a rich person, you should pay more taxes. If you're poor, you should pay fewer taxes.” And they tried to, like, actually account for all those kinds of things with various degrees of success and failure.
ALYSSA: And I think we're still working on it, aren’t we?
ADI: Oh, yeah. It's – it's amazing what a huge gargantuan nightmarish Byzantine structure of taxation or like the US tax code, for example, that we had.
ALYSSA: And, Chris, is there anything that you wanted to share?
CHRIS: Don't forget everyone. Tax season is coming. Make sure you file for extensions early.
ADI: Don't let what happened to Dainty happen to you.
ALYSSA: That's the moral of the story. Be on top of your taxes, y'all.
CHRIS: Or, or tax exempted.
ADI: Get a good lawyer. Just get a good lawyer.
CHRIS: No, get a good accountant.
ALYSSA: Why not both? Por qué?
ADI: No los dos.
ALYSSA: No los dos. Just trying a little Spanish. Next episode, we're heading over to Germany with our friend Luisa to explore themes of love, loss, poetry, and the sea in the short story, “A Little Sacrifice.”
CHRIS: Yeah. And that's it. That's a wrap, guys.
ALYSSA: Bye.
Outro & Credits
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.
Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with the Breakfast in Beauclair theme by MojoFilter Media and the “Tidings from Toussaint” theme by Bettina Campomanes.
Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Coolguyhenry, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob, Mahakam Elder Joe, Julie, Sylvia of Skellige, Will P., Brandon, Jamison, Ayvo of Gulet, and Eric, The Bear of Beauclair.
Special thanks to Chris and Adi for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil