Ep. 5 — "The Edge of the World" with Oleg

Oleg from Russia and New Jersey joins Alyssa from GoodMorhen to discuss the fifth short story from Andrzej Sapkowski’s The Last Wish, “The Edge of the World.” Very important bits include: analysis of the race relations between humans and elves on The Continent, exploration of language both within the story and of the translations, and—oh yeah—Austin Powers cameos.

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

ALYSSA: [Reading] “Even the bearded, albeit on mountains not on fields they dwell, respect and call her—”

[Laughs hysterically at the audacity of this word, acknowledging resignation at her inability to pronounce it]

OLEG: You just got to be epic with it. Like, Game of Thrones, “Bloemenmagde.”

ALYSSA: Bloemenmagde.

OLEG: You better read it in a–in a special accent. The whole thing.

ALYSSA: [In decidedly not a special accent] Bloe-men-mag-da!

OLEG: “Glimpsed she may be, during the time of sumor,” you know.

ALYSSA: Aw, tits. Um, okay.

Introduction

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across The Continent.

[Patron Announcements]

We’re gonna kick things off this episode by introducing Will C., a member of our international hanza, who has become our newest patron on Patreon.

Shout out to Mahakam Elder Joe who upgraded his pledge to a producer-level patron. He joins The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Coolguyhenry, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), and Jacob as producer-level patrons of the show.

As Producer-level patrons, they receive an introduction shoutout, a spot on the website, monthly bonus content, stickers, a tee-shirt, an exclusive Producer gift, and producer credits in each and every episode.

If you’d like to explore becoming a patron of the show, head over to patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.

[Episode Details]

As for this episode, our guest Oleg joins me in New York to discuss the next short story from Andrzej Sapkowski’s The Last Wish, “The Edge of the World.” Together, we’ll analyze the race relations between humans and elves on The Continent, explore language within the story, the translations, and the audiobook, and—oh yeah—aggressive Austin Powers cameos.

A quick note: “The Edge of the World” marks Geralt’s first adventure with the bard, Dandelion. If you’re new to The Witcher Universe and joining us in the near future, after the Netflix series has aired, when we refer to “Dandelion” throughout the episode, it’s the same character as Jaskier from the show.

During the mid-episode break, Lars from WitcherFlix returns with promotional and casting updates as well as a very convincing pitch for why you, my dear friend, need to spend your Halloween in Italy this year.

Without further ado, let’s get to this episode’s short story, “The Edge of the World.”

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa, and, today, I'm here in New York with our friend, Oleg.

OLEG: Good morning.

ALYSSA: Oleg’s being a good sport and sitting in this giant blanket fort that I've created to make a really good soundstage.

OLEG: Alyssa’s actually being humble. We're in a super professional expensive studio right now.

ALYSSA: For a little bit of context, Oleg and I, actually, met at a podcast meetup in New Jersey. This was way before I started Breakfast in Beauclair when it was just, like, kind of a little idea. I was walking around at the end of the meetup just, kind of, talking to people. I think I pointed at you because you asked a question at some point during the meetup. And I think I remember just being, like, “You!”

[Laughs]

ALYSSA: ”I’m going to talk to you about, like, getting involved with this somehow.”

OLEG: I think it was since I was doing some projects regarding podcasting, I had stood up and mentioned topics that I was interested in. 

ALYSSA: Uh-huh. 

OLEG: And I think you kind of said, “Hey, I want to speak to you after.”

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, that's how we met. So, you are currently exploring your own podcasting projects as well, right?

OLEG: Right. Yes, I am. In Russian, actually, because I feel like the market is still green there.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: But everything that kind of booms over here does over there. And, also, I've just been really into podcasts always. So, I figured why not combine kind of a niche that needs to be filled with something I'm interested in.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Because you, yourself, are Russian. You actually mentioned to me that you've actually read The Witcher series in Russian, right?

OLEG: I heard that the truest translation to the Polish one was Russian. And not even Ukrainian, which is a little closer to Polish, but actually Russian. Starting with the Sword of Destiny, I'm reading it in Russian.

ALYSSA: So, this is the first time that you're really delving into the Witcher universe and The Last Wish. What did you think about it on your first reading?

OLEG: It was cool because it's not like a fairy tale fantasy. It's not exactly a dark fantasy. It’s somewhere in the middle. You know, I guess I judged too fast. Because, when I read it, it seemed–at first, I thought it would be just some dumb action thing. Like, where it’s a simple plot, like, reading action. And I'm, like, that's just, like, he's just gonna come and fight and cast the spell. It's like–kind of like reading an action movie.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: You know what I mean? Because he, basically, gets into two fights in the first–with the pirouettes and all that. But then, quickly, I think, within that chapter and obviously the subsequent ones, I realized that it's actually a lot deeper and there's a lot of philosophical discussions. And there's a lot of witty humor. And, often, it's even the meat of the chapter, you know.

ALYSSA: And that's one of the things that I love most about the Witcher Universe and the lore. The way that it's written is very much a character-driven fantasy as opposed to being, let's say, world or lore-driven in the way that you might have with other franchises in science fiction and fantasy. I don’t know. Like, I love the aspects of philosophy and the moral grays that show up throughout the entire series. And it kept me intrigued, because it was very much like a character piece as opposed to just being, as you said, like, an action movie in text.

OLEG: I think that's a great point you make about the character piece. It seems like Sapkowski, instead of–many fantasy authors, they'll really have a map, flesh out the world, the religions, the languages, and everything. And then they'll have characters introduced into that world. Where here it seems like it really revolves around the characters, and then they'll just mention stuff related to the world—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —during their interactions. You can just read it for what it is, and you'll understand it, you know.

ALYSSA: Yeah. That's totally what I did.

[Laughs]

ALYSSA: Today, Oleg and I will be discussing “The Edge of the World,” the fifth short story in Andrezj Sapowski’s The Last Wish and Geralt’s first adventure with the bard, Dandelion. Part I starts in Upper Posada.

[Reading] Geralt and Dandelion arrive to the “Edge of the World,” the last human outposts at the end of the Northern Kingdoms in the east. The Witcher speaks with the alderman of Upper Posada inquiring about any available work for a witcher. The villagers, enthusiastic and a tad slow, tell the witcher of the “werethings” plaguing their village at the edge of the world. The pair leave, writing off the villager’s words as superstition, and are intercepted by Nettly, a villager from Lower Posada, who tells the witcher that he has real work for him.

ALYSSA: So, this is the first time Geralt and Dandelion really embark on their own adventure together. We see Dandelion as a character, not only throughout the entire saga, but also the games if you're familiar with any of CD Projekt Red’s work. And he's very crucial I think to Geralt's overall character development and to who Geralt is. They’re definitely an attraction of opposites for sure and we have a–kind of a real treat from Sapkowski in seeing some of their first interactions.

OLEG: One of the reasons he's traveling with Geralt, besides probably it's fun for him and their friends, and Geralt doesn't really say anything about it. But it's probably good for him to have a companion that's not so bleak and—

ALYSSA: Right.

OLEG: —and whatever around. Dandelion, he's a bard or troubadour—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —et cetera. You know, a performer of sorts. And he's–I guess he actually has a significant amount of fame as this poet and bard, and everything.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And he just siphons material from Geralt.

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: That's pretty much the basis of Dandelion’s relationship with him. It's just, like, “I think you're gonna do something interesting. And I'm gonna write about it, and turn it into profit.”

OLEG: Yeah. He’s, like, “You’re a tough guy. So, you'll probably protect me from the danger while giving me cool stuff to write about.”

ALYSSA: When we find the pair, Dandelion is coming into an inn, presumably, with two tankards of beer. And he walks in on Geralt trying to talk with the alderman here and trying to say, like, “Hey, is there any work for a Witcher?” And the alderman just doesn't understand what a Witcher does. He's, like, “Ah, what?” To the point where they're throwing out completely mythological things, and Geralt kind of takes this all in stride. He’s very, very polite to them. And then, when they leave, Dandelion says, “How could you possibly say that you have no work when all of these people have work for you?” And Geralt tells Dandelion, “Dandelion, I wouldn't get any work here. None of it was real.” There's this one famous quote that follows the Witcher and the Bard’s discussion of the locals lying. Dandelion says:

[Reading] “But monsters do exist. Maybe not as many as before, maybe they don't lurk behind every tree in the forest, but they are there. They exist. So, how do you account for people inventing ones, then? What’s more, believing in what they invent? Eh, famous Witcher? Haven't you wondered why?”

ALYSSA: And then Geralt responds:

[Reading] “I have, famous poet, and I know why. People like to invent monsters and monstrosities. Then they seem less monsters themselves. When they get blind-drunk, cheat, steal, beat their wives, starve an old woman, when they kill a trapped fox with an ax or riddle the last existing unicorn with arrows, they like to think that the Bane entering cottages at daybreak is more monstrous than they are. They feel better then. They find it easier to live.”

OLEG: That might be, uh, kind of one of the biggest parts of the chapter, right? I feel like most of the chapter is kind of about this quote.

ALYSSA: Yeah. I think it plays very nicely into your observation about “The Other” and the existence of “The Other”. There's this constant belief, no matter of what side of an argument that you're on, that something out there is worse than you. Something out there is more evil than you. And we talk about this a little I think in “The Lesser Evil” with Cyprian, where, you know, everyone is the hero in their own story. You're kind of getting at the same thing here, where there's always something that's worse than you. There's always something that has more cruel intentions. You have your own reasons and your own justification for why you're doing things that you're doing.

OLEG: Yeah. And I, I really liked the point that Cyprian made that everyone is the hero of their own story. I think this quote is great. I–actually, I remember reading that quote. I was, like, “Yeah, this is–this is one of the things that made me realize how philosophical this book is.” And the chapter really revolves around this. There's The Other, and then, like, insiders and outsiders. Why do people invent monsters and monstrosities? It's not like they sit around thinking of them trying to invent them. Although, you know, in a PR campaign, that's exactly—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —what's done, right, in politics and all that. But I feel, like, people automatically–they'll do this to take the focus off of their own wrongdoing, and also to, uh, feel more innocent and cleaner about their actions themselves.

ALYSSA: Right.

OLEG: You know, just cognitive dissonance and all of that. You know, like, I guess somebody blaming the alcohol, you know, breaking something, hurting someone, for example. Another thing is it allows them to blame The Other for their misfortunes and problems that either just were by happenstance or they caused themselves. And you'll see that throughout, you know, history. I guess, basically, blaming any misfortune on something superstitious or even more seriously, often, you'll see it maybe on another race or group of people.

ALYSSA: Right.

OLEG: One of the worst things is labeling somebody a monster helps to justify treating them badly, because you labeled them a monster. So, it's, like, “Well, they're a monster. So, of course, we treat them this way.” Meanwhile, who is the monster actually, right? It'd be the person, you know, doing the action, doing the bad treatment. So, you almost take it off of yourself and put it on the other person.

ALYSSA: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like there's a lot there to unpack about, let's say, the dismissiveness of labels. And, ugh, I could talk about this stuff all day.

OLEG: You know, I find just the interactions throughout the chapter with the peasant folk—or whatever you want to call the Posada residents—just hilarious. You know, the alderman being slow, you know. And then the way they speak in general or their accent or Nettly’s answer when Dandelion asked him how he knew which way they were going. And then he mentioned that their horses’ noses were pointed one way and their butts were the other way.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Like, just logic, you know.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: And I guess that kind of contrasts, maybe their superstitious explanations for a lot of things.

ALYSSA: Yeah. When you actually read the books–like, we haven't talked about this yet. Anytime one of the local resident speaks, in the English translation, it's in Old English. Everything that they say is meant to be incredibly, incredibly dated. These are the last human outposts of the Northern Kingdoms. And just general civilization hasn't seemed to really hit them yet is what the translation implies just by having modern contrasted with old English.

OLEG: Yeah. It's funny reading it in Russian, the way they do it too, which is—

ALYSSA: Which is how?

[Laughs]

OLEG: It’s, like, a lot of words from Russian villages or maybe like older Slavic words, stuff like that, you know.

ALYSSA: Uh-huh. Yeah. So, one of the examples of this Old English that they use for the villagers. It says, like, “Heed ye, yourselves. Now ’tis time.” So, it's–you kind of get that throughout the English translation. And, as a native English speaker, it's very obvious that the differences are there in terms of how I guess civilization has progressed, where these regions are, and how isolated they are. I'd actually be really curious to hear from people what happens in other translations. Like, I know that you mentioned Russian, but, like, I'd be curious to, like, hear what it sounds like, let's say, in Spanish or in German, or in French, or even in, like, other languages as well, and if and how those are regional or if they're definitely dated in terms of time.

OLEG: Yeah, that would definitely be, uh, interesting. And I think it's hilarious, also, when they get frustrated, and then start speaking like them. And I think this gives a little bit of a nod to a larger theme in the chapter, but this is in a very, I think, subtle way. There's the whole theme of The Other. And I think it starts with Dandelion being maybe a little condescending almost towards them. I guess understandably so in this context, but—

ALYSSA: Yeah. There's a quote that actually supports that. Dandelion, as they're riding with this local, makes the comment about, like, “Oh, there are elves in this area. How do you guys get along with them?” And Nettly says that they really don't interact with each other. And Dandelion says something to the effect of, like, “It's best that way.” And Geralt doesn't say anything at all.

OLEG: Geralt kind of seems to stay quiet when he doesn't agree or he doesn't know whether he agrees or disagrees often. Where Dandelion will sometimes say something, but I'm not sure if he's agreeing to be maybe diplomatic or if he's actually always kind of trolling a little bit. You know, a little satire there. Like, “Yeah, the best solution, right?”

ALYSSA: I think I read it as a little bit satire, and as a little bit joking. Who really knows. It doesn't really give much description in the books and then I think, in the audiobook, I don't actually remember Peter Kenny narrating Dandelion as being serious or joking. I think this idea of created monsters and monstrosities and others lends, as you said, you know, a really nice foundation for the rest of the chapter and everything that we're going to see here at the Edge of the World.

[Reading] As Part I ends, Nettly tells Geralt and Dandelion that he has some work for them. In Part II, Nettly brings the Witcher and bard to his home, where they speak with Dhun, the elder of Lower Posada. They tell the Witcher of a deovel that lurks in a nearby field. Geralt says he’d like to see the devil, and the freemen direct the Witcher to a hemp field where it resides.

ALYSSA: So, this is a pretty, like, brief setup of the chapter. We see Geralt and Dandelion meet one of the other characters in the story, Dhun, who's the elder of Lower Posada. And they still are trying to figure out something that is real work for a Witcher. And the villagers have told Geralt and Dandelion about a “deovel.” It’s spelled in the English translation as D-E-O-V-E-L. Like, as Dandelion says, a devil. And Dandelion goes insane. He's, like, “You just told me that all these things are made up. Why are you believing in this devil? There's no such thing as devils.” And Geralt says, “True, but, Dandelion, I could never resist the temptation of having a look at something that doesn't exist.”

[Reading] In Part III, following the freemen’s advice, Geralt and Dandelion travel to a nearby hemp field in search of the devil. The pair come across a clearing with a large, flat stone where the villagers have been bringing offerings. The devil appears, bleating into the clearing. Dandelion, ignoring Geralt’s pleas to shut up, taunts the creature, and it unexpectedly begins pelting small iron balls at the pair until they run from the clearing.

ALYSSA: There's so much about this that is just absolutely ridiculous.

OLEG: It's hilarious. That’s what I think.

ALYSSA: Yeah. At this point, Geralt and Dandelion kind of go to this huge hemp field. And they're standing outside of it and Geralt tells Dandelion that hemp has magical properties. And that the devil must sense it, that no magic can touch it here and that there's some sort of “protectivity” or something. So, they actually go into it, and they eventually find where this deovel has been living. And there's just crap everywhere.

OLEG: Right.

ALYSSA: Everything is sticky. There's just like—

OLEG: It’s just a mess all around.

ALYSSA: Yeah. There's, like, grain. There's, like, tar everywhere. And they're just, like, “What the hell is going on?” And then, as this happens, this thing comes into the clearing and it's noted as being one of the strangest things that Geralt has ever seen. In this excerpt it says:

[Reading] The bard’s next words were drowned by a loud, sinister bleating. Something rustled and stamped in the hemp; then the strangest creature Geralt had ever seen emerged from the thicket. The creature was about half a rod tall with bulging eyes and goat’s horns and a beard. The mouth, a soft, busy slit, also brought a chewing goat to mind. Its nether regions were covered with long, thick, dark-red hair right down to the cleft hooves. The creature had a long tail ending in a brush-like tassel, which wagged energetically.

ALYSSA: I mean, when I read this, I basically just imagined Phil from Disney's Hercules. Like, a little tiny goat man.

OLEG: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

ALYSSA: But, in the third Witcher game, in CD Projekt Red’s rendering, they're quite large. Like, they're just enormous. That's definitely not what I personally imagined when I was reading this, especially because it's something that Geralt kind of tussles with.

“MORNING OF ALYSSA”: Hey! It’s “Morning Of Alyssa,” coming ‘atcha with some last minute input. If you saw the Breakfast in Beauclair Instagram stories recently, I looked up how tall a rod is. And, despite minor setbacks—like learning former professional baseball player A. Rod is 6’3” tall—the historical measurement of a rod is roughly 5 meters or 16.5 feet… which means this devil is about 2.5 meters or over 8 feet tall… which isn’t at all what I imagined and admittedly doesn’t make much sense to me, but it’s fine, and we’re gonna roll with it.

ALYSSA: So, we kind of get this description where it evokes the image of a goat.

OLEG: Like I said, I kept searching for images, anytime I would come across a description, to make sure I had gotten it right. A lot of times, the images–the results from Google images were from the game. I think it showed him as this, like, kind of large guy or something—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —where I really imagine him as your typical faun or satyr.

ALYSSA: Yeah, yeah.

OLEG: Also, they’re called from Greek mythology, I think, there. And I mean they're all over the world, but—

ALYSSA: Yeah. I–in CD Projekt Red’s rendering, it kind of reminded me more of, um–I forget the name of the character from Austin Powers, but it's the one—

OLEG: Oh.

[Laughs]

OLEG: Uh, Fat Bastard.

ALYSSA: [Whispers] Yes.

OLEG: Yeah, the Scottish guy.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: That's what it looked like. With horns, right?

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, that's kind of what CD Projekt Red’s—

[Oleg laughs]

ALYSSA: —rendering reminded me of.

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Whereas, like, I imagined more of like a faun.

OLEG: By Sapkowski’s description, he was just depicted, like, physically, and then in his demeanor kind of like mischievous and all that. Like, you see, a lot of times, fauns and satyrs, you know, in mythology. I think it's hilarious when they encounter him. And, just reading it, I was trying to figure out how it sounded out. Like uuk, uuk, uuk.

ALYSSA: Yeah. It’s—

OLEG: It was, like, so awkward and funny.

ALYSSA: The way that it's written in the English translation, it's a lot of u’s and k’s. So, it's like uuk, uuk, uuk.

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And then–or it's like bleating. Like—

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: —it'll actually spell out like a goat sound. When Peter Kenny does the audiobooks, it's actually–it's actually a little bit annoying to listen to. Like, I do–I do like it, and I do appreciate the amount of effort that had gone into making the character so specific. The way that it's done, for example, I think there's a line–actually, the only line that I have in my notes is just, “Here are your balls,” and there's no context for it in my notes. I'm sorry. But, like, the way that Peter Kenny's voice oscillates in the audio recording, so, it's like… I don't even know if I can imitate it. But it's just like—

OLEG: Oh, he does, like, a voice?

ALYSSA: That's the wonderful thing about the audiobooks is he has such a distinct voice for every character. So, a lot of the time, it's actually really cool. There's just some points where it's a little either confusing or the pronunciation is a little odd, but, like, as you would get with any audiobook. But, when he actually says it, it's like… truly, I don't even know if I could do it. But it's like [imitates Peter Kenny imitating a goat-man] “heeee”. Like, he actually, like, you’d think it’s—

OLEG: Kind of that goat.

ALYSSA: It's like [again, imitating Kenny’s imitation of a goat-man] “baaaaalls”. Like, it's very bizarre.

OLEG: Oh, that’s weird. I was trying to sound out the thing. And, like, my roommate heard me. He's, like, “What the fuck are you doing?” And I was just messing with him. Like ook, ook, ook, you know. And then – because, instead of uk, I’d be like ook, ook, ook. And I’m, like, that's just such a funny thing to say. And then, like, I was reading it, it's like B-L-E-E-E, B-L-E-U, almost like the, like a blue cheese.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: You know, like, the E-U.

ALYSSA: Oh, blue cheese.

OLEG: And I tried to sound it out. And, for me, it was like [Oleg goes full Gremlin meets Tasmanian Deovel] blu, blu, blu, blu, bla.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Like, you know, when you're rolling your tongue in your mouth?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Like, but I guess it was more like a [imitates sheep] baaa.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: You know, like a bleating.

ALYSSA: It's always weird to hear sounds written out, um, and trying to figure out what the person who wrote it actually meant in their depiction.

OLEG: it seems scary, right? They're going into these fields far from the village—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —to seek out this monster that they need to slay. And it's this devil, but then this thing comes out and, like, “Here are your balls. Ook, ook, blaaa,” whatever—how he makes—it's hilarious.

ALYSSA: It's a little ridiculous. There is one point when Dandelion does say, like, “Geralt, where's your sword?” And Geralt’s, like, “What do–what do I need my sword for?”

OLEG: Right.

ALYSSA: “We're just gonna check this thing out.” And then, as it turns out, I feel like I need to give some context for the, “Here are your balls,” line. They get to this clearing. It's covered in grain and tar and just a whole bunch of crap. It's disgusting. And this devil comes out, Dandelion taunts it, and it starts pelting them—This thing doesn't have pockets. Like, is it just holding these? I don't know—but it just starts pelting them with these iron balls that are about—I think the book describes this as being about an inch in diameter. So, like, about the size of, like, I mean I have tiny thumbs, but, like, it's about the size of my thumb.

OLEG: Those are bigger than I imagine. I imagined like little beads.

ALYSSA: [Laughs] I thought you're talking about my thumb.

OLEG: Oh, no.

[They laugh]

OLEG: Not that. That’d be very blunt. And messed up. No, it's a pretty big balls, you know.

ALYSSA: Yeah, they're – they’re substantial.

OLEG: Right.

ALYSSA: They're actually quite large.

OLEG: Like, like those from the gumball machines.

ALYSSA: Yeah, they're like gumballs basically.

OLEG: Jawbreakers. Geralt's demeanor, in general, is interesting. You know, maybe it's him being a Witcher. Maybe it's the training. Maybe it's all the physical changes that have taken place in him. He’ll always, like, sit certain parts out or just stay quiet. And he seems to be pretty good at disarming or not provoking. Dandelion is actually very provocational. And Geralt is always telling him, “Shut up.” And we'll see how in this story and other stories in the future, a lot of times, things wouldn't have happened at all maybe or the way they did if Dandelion had just kept his mouth shut. Geralt ends up having to save both of their necks.

ALYSSA: Dandelion gets smacked in the forehead, and they just kind of—

OLEG: Deservedly.

ALYSSA: [Laughs] Yeah. And the Witcher and the bard just, like, run out of the clearing. And I imagine this in my mind. It's really comical, where you kind of see them like Dandelion and Geralt, both, kind of like trip.

OLEG: Like, cartoonish almost.

ALYSSA: A little cartoonish. Yeah. I mean, it's such a ridiculous scene. As he's pelting them with these balls, this devil shouts, like, “Here are your balls! Brrreee!”

OLEG: “You shitty jokers!”

ALYSSA: Yes. Yeah. It's just so absolutely absurd.

OLEG: It's very funny. And we’ll – I think we see this throughout the stories, where witchers, just from I guess the game and the book and everything, they almost seem, you know, superhuman, scary, kind of imposing with amazing powers, sharp minds, amazing fighters. But I think it kind of humanizes Geralt in the fact that you see him actually lose a lot of fights or even flee.—

ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah.

OLEG: —or get outwitted.

ALYSSA: No, you're absolutely right. I mean this is someone who, like, in “The Lesser Evil,” we saw him deflect a crossbow—

OLEG: Right.

ALYSSA: —with just a sword, and you're right. Like, it does feel very human. Like, this is a character who is, yes, a hero, but he's flawed. And he, he does go through his series of failures throughout the short stories and throughout this one in particular. Even though you see him, like, in the very first short story, just kind of wander into this tavern and slaughter a bunch of people, throughout the course of the stories, he has his own, like, series of comical mishaps that humanize him for sure. He's Bad Luck Geralt a lot of the time.

OLEG: Yeah. I think it shows that he's a lot more human than maybe, like, almost like a demigod or superhuman or whatever—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —that they show him to be at first.

ALYSSA: [Reading] In Part IV, Geralt confronts Dhun and Nettly about their attempts to rid themselves of the devil. They confess to having referenced a large, old book written in the First Runes on how to deal with the creature. An old woman, accompanied by a young woman named Lille, has memorized each of the captions beside the book’s illustrations. She recites the entry for the creature in the hemp, which we learn is a sylvan. The old woman also translates the book’s poor advice on how to rid the villagers of the creature. Lille, silent and hovering throughout the conversation, only speaks to the old woman, despite Geralt’s increasingly aggressive questioning, and Dhun sends her away. Dhun tells the Witcher that Lille is a prophetess, a Wise One, who prevents them from harming any creature in the valley. It is Lille who has allowed the freemen to hire the Witcher. Nettly tells Geralt that the sylvan stole, then demanded levies of grain from the villagers, which Geralt notes as odd because of the sylvan’s herbivore characteristics. The group decide that, if the sylvan is an intelligent creature capable of reason, then they shall try to reason with it.

ALYSSA: This is a really interesting section for a couple different reasons. So, we get a lot more context about who these villagers are and how they go about problem-solving.

[Laughs]

ALYSSA: So, Geralt and Dandelion, I guess, have arranged some sort of meeting with Dhun and Nettly. The excerpt here says Nettly and Dhun walked into the dayroom. Behind them, hobbled a gray-haired old woman, twisted as a pretzel, led by a fair-haired and painfully thin teenage girl. The Witcher and the bard introduced this new pair of people. Geralt says, “What the hell! Like, you told me you weren't trying to do anything about this thing. And we go there, and there's all these offerings. And he pelted us with iron balls.” And then the villagers are, like, “Ah. Yeah.”

OLEG: Yeah. “About that.”

ALYSSA: And then they, yeah. And then they own up to having, like, attempted to do something about it. And this is where the old woman and this book comes in. So, it turns out that the villagers have this book that's written in the First Runes, which is an ancient, ancient language to the point where even Dandelion notes, like, “Books like this are found in libraries or universities, not at villages at the end of the world. Can you even read this?” And the woman can't even hear him. She's like, “What?” As, as an old woman are wont to do. And she's, like, “No, I can't read it.” I think it's Dhun that provides context. An old woman always takes a young woman under her wing and memorizes the book. And then it's always the oldest woman in the village that knows the book. So, she starts translating for them a couple excerpts. And she does come across one of a Witcher, which kind of sets the context of what we're dealing with here.

[Reading] The etching showed a disheveled monstrosity with enormous eyes and even larger teeth riding a horse. In its right hand, the monstrous being wielded a substantial sword. In its left, a bag of money. “A witchman,” mumbled the woman, “Called by some a Witcher. To summon him is most dangerous, albeit one must; for when against the monster and the vermin there be no aid, the witchman can contrive. But be careful one must be to touch not the witchman, for thus the mange can one acquire. And lasses do from him hideaway, for lustful the witchman is above all measure—”

ALYSSA: Even I’m having trouble reading this right now.

[Reading] “Though the witchman greatly covetous and greedy for gold be giveth ye not such a one more than: for a drowner, one silver penny or three halves; for a werecat, silver pennies two; for a plumard, silver pennies—” And Geralt just cuts her off saying, “Those were the days,”

ALYSSA: So, we're dealing with something that is very, very dated and it is just a source of information that these villagers rely on. The old woman or someone turns the book, finds the section about the creature that they discovered in the hemp. The old woman recites:

[Reading] “The deovel also called willower or sylvan. For livestock and domestic fowl, a tiresome and great pest is he. Be it your will to chase him from your hamlet, takest thou of nuts, one fistful.”

ALYSSA: I can’t even read this without laughing.

[Reading] “Next, takest thou of iron balls a second fistful. Of honey, a utricle, of birch tar a second, of gray soap a firkin, of soft cheese another. And, where the deovel dwelleth goest thou when ’tis night. Commenceth then to eat the nuts. Anon, the deovel who hath great greed will hasten and ask if they are tasty indeed. Givest to him then the balls of iron. Having broken his teeth, he will be attentive as thou eatest the honey. Of said honey will he himself desire. Givest him of birch tar, then yourself eateth soft cheese. Soon, hearest thou, will the deovel grumbleth and tumbleth, but makest of it as naught. Yet if the deovel desireth soft cheese, givest him soap. For soap the deovel withstandeth not.” [Laughing] And Geralt interrupts saying, “You got to the soap?” Nettly replies, “In no way. If only we had got to the balls, but he gave us what for when he bit a ball.”

ALYSSA: And Dandelion is absolutely furious. And he cuts in, and he said, “And who told you to give him so many?” That's kind of the description that we get about what this creature is, we now know is a sylvan or I would assume was like a faun. It turns out what was effectively an entire crime scene of just crap, turns out to be the villagers’ attempt of getting rid of the sylvan on the advice of this crappy old book. Basically, this book says to trick the sylvan by you, yourself—

OLEG: Disappointing him.

ALYSSA: Yeah, by disappointing him or tricking him. 

OLEG: Yeah. 

ALYSSA: So, you’ve brought nuts, and then you’ve also brought iron balls. So, it says eat the nuts. And then, when the devil wants the nuts, instead of giving them to him, give him the iron balls. He's gonna break his teeth. And then, when you have honey, give yourself honey. And he's gonna want honey. Instead of honey, you give him birch tar.

OLEG: It's funny how the way it works is, eventually, he's supposed to just get tired of injuring him, and then he'll leave.

ALYSSA: Yeah, it's, this is a very short-sighted method for, for doing this. It doesn't make any freaking sense at all, especially when you consider that, yes, this is some sort of intelligent creature. It turns out they tried giving him the nuts and, as soon as he, like, chomped on the iron ball, he understandably freaked out, and that was it. So, why the place was covered a birch tar, I don't know.

OLEG: He probably turned over all the stuff they brought.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Like, they bought a whole, like, picnic basket of this shit. You know, it reminds me actually of this. It was a Russian fairy tale. I remember this guy was supposed to ask the giant if he can squeeze water from a stone. And the giant wouldn't be able to. But, meanwhile the hero, he brought a piece of cheese. And he would just squeeze it, and all of this, like, you know, water would come out. I remember, even as a kid, thinking, like, how unobservant and stupid is this giant can’t tell cheese from a stone.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: So, I feel like it's hilarious that it's like, “Oh, eat nuts, but give him these metal balls.”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Like, birch tar and honey perhaps, but, like, metal balls and nuts.

ALYSSA: They haven't specified what kind of nuts these are.

OLEG: Right.

ALYSSA: But it's just really weird and does have the assumption that this creature is not as smart as humans would expect it to be or just as humans themselves. Clearly, that's not the case.

OLEG: So, right, maybe like a dog. Dogs, if you give them bite-sized stuff—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —they'll start, like, trying to eat it, because, in their mind, automatically, they think it seems like a food. But this guy, however, is a lot smarter than a – than a dog, even maybe smarter than a human. So, I think there's a few things which are interesting in this part. First of all, that they're like, “Oh, okay. So, you know, how do you guys decide how to deal with this – you know, this creature?” And they say, “Oh, you know, we have an old woman, and we have this book.” “Oh, great, kind of, like, the old woman, she can read all these old runes?” And it's like, “Oh, no. She can't read. She never learned to read. So, she's memorized it.” And they say, “The whole thing?” And she said, “No, mostly the text around the pictures.”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

[Laughs]

OLEG: First of all, do they even have all the information needed for these formulas of—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —of helping themselves in whatever situations?

ALYSSA: Yeah. 

OLEG: Because they do – it's funny. They do mention how the book is like, “Oh, this thing will solve all your problems” type thing.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

OLEG: You know, like, it's like the internet, I guess.

ALYSSA: Aw. Yeah.

OLEG: Like a really shitty internet. And there's only one person who can use it, you know. And they only know how to click some of the buttons or whatever.

ALYSSA: Right. Right.

OLEG: After they read the explanation of a Witcher, you see how outdated and exaggerated it is. So, it almost seems like one of these old outdated, you know, texts, which you can read in the old US or Europe—

ALYSSA: Right.

OLEG: —or any part of the world, where maybe it described some kind of event, or people, or even other, you know, races. And the kind of scary and demeaning term and like the Witcher, right? Big teeth and the money, and just like all these bad characteristics about him. And be careful, and, you know, don't – don't touch him. He'll give you the – is it the mange?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: I guess, the disease.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, part of what we do see in this book is that it is like a gross caricature of what a Witcher is. The woman is here accompanied by a younger woman named Lille, whatever the general consensus on how to pronounce it. I'm just gonna say Lille. I'm sorry if it’s wrong. And… she's interesting. So, when she first walks in, Geralt notes that she's like a painfully thin teenage girl. And then, upon really looking at her, he notes, at some point, that she's older than he had originally thought. And she doesn't say a word. She's just there with the old woman. And, if she speaks, it's only through her. Geralt starts to question her about things like, “You can see that the sylvan is a run-of-the-mill herbivores. So, why were you trying to feed it grain? Why were you doing these things?” And she doesn't say anything. Geralt gets increasingly annoyed. And then I think it must be Dhun who sends her away with the old woman and the book.

ALYSSA: Nettly and Dhun tell Geralt that Lille is a prophetess or a wise one. And Geralt immediately understands their concern for letting out who she is, because she could be persecuted. The villagers could be persecuted. But they also note that, yes, Lille's stopped them from harming the sylvan, but she has allowed them to hire Geralt. But they do say they've decided that the sylvan is some sort of intelligent creature. And he's been asking for things that don't really seem to make sense. He must be a creature capable of reason. Nettly suggests actually just going in to try to talk with him and to understand what he wants from the villagers. And the group agrees that's what they'll do.

OLEG: I think it's also just interesting, on the topic of Lille, that she's kind of this supernatural girl, you know. And, in the realms of men, there's also government structure, systems, lords, and everything. They respect her almost – I don’t know – worship, but they hold her as something very important to their lifestyle and cherish and protect her, even though it goes against these systems of the realms of man.

ALYSSA: Like, reading the chapter, you kind of get the impression that, if she's there, people are completely entranced by her.

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: Like, they can't stop staring. And she's very unassuming. Geralt makes the note that she's painfully thin in stark contrast to the more robust girls that are like working—

OLEG: Right.

ALYSSA: —women in the village. But there's something about her that's incredibly captivating. And we don't really learn what yet.

OLEG: Also, it’s interesting how there's the book. And it seems like Lille and the old lady go by the book, but, like, what is their input?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Why go by the book if they’re magical or smarter or wise women?

ALYSSA: Hm! That is actually a really good question to ask.

OLEG: Like, do they just go by, “Oh, the old woman remembers these memories. And she's the only one who can translate the book. So, she's effectively just like a medium—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —between the book and the villagers. And the girl doesn't even speak. She just tells the old woman what to say.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Like, okay.

ALYSSA: Yeah. So, we're gonna—

OLEG: It’s this—

ALYSSA: We're definitely gonna get into I think the mechanics or what we can assume about the mechanics of that relationship. But we do know that they're almost always together from what we can gather from this part of the section. 

OLEG: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: So, Part IV ends with Nettly asking the Witcher to go take care of this devil. In Part V, Geralt attempts to capture the sylvan in the hemp and is unexpectedly knocked out.

ALYSSA: This is a very interesting section, because it's just Geralt, in this hemp, calling out to the sylvan. The sylvan says, like, “Let's play a game.” And Geralt doesn't have any interest or time for the sylvan’s stupid little bets that he's trying to make. So, they just start this tussle in the hemp. Geralt hears hooves. He assumes that this is Dandelion, who is coming to help him capture the sylvan, and it's not. We don't know what it is, but we just know that whatever's on that horse knocks Geralt out.

OLEG: Right.

ALYSSA: And then the second attempt doesn't go well, either. They actually start to physically fistfight.

OLEG: Wrestle.

ALYSSA: Yeah. And there's this excerpt here as they're fighting. It says, “The next few minutes passed in an intense skirmish and exchange of insults and kicks. If Geralt was pleased about anything, it was only that nobody could see him, for it was truly a ridiculous sight.” It just sounds so silly. And the whole thing just kind of goes to shit. Nothing goes well for Geralt here. And then, as soon as he believes that relief is coming, he gets knocked out, and his world goes dark.

OLEG: Yeah. And it's funny that whole awkward scene of them wrestling – like, again, the superhuman warrior guy, Geralt, right? And he's trying to wrestle this, like, goat thing. He's just, like, kicking him and, like, cursing. And, like, again, it presents him as kind of this oaf, you know.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Like, the Witcher, quite significant about Geralt as a person, as a character. These kind of funny, awkward things that happen to him that humanize him. Also, his patience with people, and not being judgmental, and not criticizing, not wanting to kill an intelligent creature, and just being tolerant. He seems like this very, like, empathetic, nice guy, who might be – seem cold and calculating, but, at the same time, doesn't want to cause evil as you guys discussed a lot in The Lesser of Two Evils.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

OLEG: And one of the big things about him is he's presented as this maybe kind of typical antihero that's always, like, “No, I'm the – I'm a bad guy. This is my destiny kind of.” But he's actually, like, a good guy, and all of that.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah.

OLEG: Like a wholesome dude, you know,

ALYSSA: Yeah. He's definitely really like a little gumball. Very hard on the outside—

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: —very squishy, soft on the center.

OLEG: A bad grappler.

ALYSSA: Yeah, as we – as we learn.

OLEG: Needs some Jiu-Jitsu lessons.

ALYSSA: Man. Yep! Capable with a sword. He's not doing particularly well against the sylvan. We end the chapter with the whole world kind of going dark for Geralt. And, before we learn about what's happened to him, we're gonna hand it over to Lars From Witcherflix for more recent news on the upcoming Netflix show. And, when we come back, Oleg and I will return for our discussion of “The Edge of the World.”

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from Witcherflix and this is “Tidings from Toussaint.” There is a lot to report this week, so let's jump right into it.

Let's start with something awesome. The new Witcher trailer will be shown on October 31th during the Lucca Comics and Games convention in Italy. On this day Witcher author Andrzej Sapkowski, showrunner Lauren S. Hissrich, as well as actresses Anya Chalotra (Yennefer) and Freya Allan (Ciri) will also be there. There will also be a Witcher panel on November 1st. On this panel executive producer Tomasz Bagiński, production designer Andrew Laws and costume designer Tim Aslam will tell anectodes from the set of the Witcher show. This is going to be an awesome Halloween!

The promo photo showing Henry Cavill as Geralt gives us a much better look at his sword. The photograph, by the way, was shot during the same shooting on the Canary Islands like the other promo pics that were released back in July. On this new promo photo, we definitely see Geralt's steel sword which is adorned with beautiful jewels. He will mostly use this sword on the show, as he only chooses his silver sword when fighting against monsters and supernatural beings. Until then, his silver sword comfortably rests in Roach's saddlebags. Visit breakfastinbeauclair.com to see this new promo picture.

In other news, on Twitter, Witcher director Marc Jobst raved of our three main protagonists. About Henry Cavill as Geralt he said: "You’ll soon see that Henry’s sword skills are quite simply breathtaking. Athletic. Brutal. Precise." When asked about how Anya Chalotra's interpretation of Yennefer, Marc Jobst answered: "She is rise-up-out-of-your-seat good. She brings depth, damage, purpose and fierce determination to the part that is spine tingling. And exceptional to work with to boot!" In the end, he also talked about Freya Allan, who seems to be a perfect fit for Ciri: "Oh my word. She is luminous. Young, fierce, charismatic, with the presence and strength of an old soul." I think Marc Jobst really knows how to hype us up!

Another actor had something very interesting to say about The Witcher show. This time it is Royce Pierreson who will play Yennefer's former lover, powerful mage and aspiring archeologist Istredd. When interviewed by HeyUGuys, Royce talked about the show, the Witcher world, and what makes both so special. He said, "The Witcher is vast and huge, but it's still all about the relationships. It doesn't matter how big your universe is, it doesn't matter how legendary your character is, it's about personal relationships. And that’s what makes a great piece." I think there's nothing to add.

Moreover, there are also two pieces of news to report from the casting front: Acclaimed British actor Ron Cook has been cast for the show. He is famous work in movies like Hot Fuzz and TV productions such as The Other Boleyn Girl or HBO's Chernobyl. Unfortunately, we don't know Ron Cook’s role yet. What we do know is that Hungarian actor Ferenc Ivan Szabo has been cast as another militia guard.

Let's finish this edition of “Tidings from Toussaint” off with a very interesting rumor. You can find it on Recapped.com, the site which correctly leaked information about the Witcher show before. Recapped wrote in a recent post that Netflix had been casting for an animated series set in the Witcher world awhile back. It would feature some side characters and the plan was to make it available between Season 1 and Season 2, but the current status of this animated show is unknown to Recapped.

According to Witcher news site RedanianIntelligence, this rumor has some merit: German voice actress Helena Klaus has written on her CV on Spotlight.com that she was doing voiceovers for The Witcher. It would make perfect sense that this was for the animated show. Moreover, Netflix has released tie-in material between seasons before—for example on Marco Polo—and is heavily focusing on animated shows at the moment: Love, Death & Robots for example, Castlevania or an animated show for the game Cuphead. But let's not get too excited for now and take it for what it is: a cool rumor.

Anyway, guys, that's it for me. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by Bettina Campomanes]

Discussion

ALYSSA: Hey, everyone, welcome back from the break. I'm here with Oleg discussing “The Edge of the World” from Andrzej Sapkowski’s The Last Wish. When we left off, Geralt and his bard friend, Dandelion, have traveled to Dol Blathanna, The Valley of Flowers, at the edge of the world in search of work for the witcher. At the request of the locals, Geralt attempts to rid a nearby hemp and hops field of a sylvan who has been stealing from the town and demanding levies of grain.

[Reading] In Part VI, Geralt and Dandelion are captured and bound by a group of Aen Seidhe elves. One, Toruviel, taunts the Witcher, causing him to retaliate by breaking her nose. It turns out Torque, the sylvan, is taking grain, seeds, and farming knowledge from the freemen of Lower Posada on behalf of the starving Aen Seidhe. During heated exchanges between Geralt and the elves, Torque continually tries to prevent the elves from harming the Witcher and bard.

ALYSSA: The chapter opens as Geralt wakes up from being knocked out. He's getting his bearings. He knows he's bound. And he kind of rolls himself over, because he hears talking. So, Geralt hears them before he actually sees them. When he turns around, he realizes that Galarr is an elf. And the description here is that “his hair was black with a distinct hint of dark blue. He had sharp features, big, bright eyes, and pointed ears. Galarr was an elf – an elf from the mountains, a pure-blooded Aen Seidhe, a representative of the Old People.” And, when they say “old people,” they specifically refer to elves or people from before the conjunction of the spheres. He learns that the devil, the sylvan, is named Torque. The devil and Galarr, who Torque refers to by name, are using the Old Language, which is the language of elves. But that the words “corn”, “beans”, and “oilseed” are in the Common Tongue. So, these are words that we now learn are, like, not natively part of the Aen Seidhe language. So, they have to use the Common Tongue. So, just kind of a throw on words that are new, because they've never had to say these things before.

OLEG: They're basically starving in the mountains and they don't know how to get food the way that the humans do, which is through agriculture. I would imagine this is why they don't have words for some of the farming practices and fruits of agriculture that the humans have.

ALYSSA: As I said, Galarr and Torque are speaking in the Old Language, which Geralt understands. And this is a language, not necessarily exclusive to elves but of elven origin. Oleg, you had, like, a note about having looked up some of the translations of these.

OLEG: Yeah. So, it's interesting. Reading in the Russian version, the Old People “speech” and Dwarven are actually written using the Latin alphabet just like in the English version, as opposed to Cyrillic. Again, I think we mentioned it before, but, Sapkowski, he didn't take that much time to build a world and then put characters in it. But he's more, it seems like, world-building around characters in the story as he goes. Unlike, maybe like Tolkien who designed this whole Elvish alphabet and, you know, language and all of that. So, again, from what I understand, Sapkowski, he uses Gaelic, Norse, and influences of other languages and puts these words together where many readers can kind of get the gist of what's being said and then gives context just in case you didn't understand. For example, three phrases you'll see. There's one in the Elvish speech. They say, “A d'yaebl aép arse.” I don't know if I pronounced that correctly. Again, it's a mix of these sounds from those older languages meaning “A devil up your ass.” I guess kind of like, “Go fuck yourself.”

ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah.

OLEG: Also, in Dwarven, they say, “Duvvel hoael,” yeah, which means “Devil take it.” And some of these I – basically, I took time to look up online, because I was just really wondering what they said. Another one, “Duvvelsheysse,” which in Dwarven means “devil shit.” This is Dwarven also. So, I think some of these have maybe even official translations. And some of them probably fans guess that – what they mean based on similar words in other languages that means something or contexts or both.

ALYSSA: This Old Language is something that we're going to see continually throughout the series. And it's something that I think, as you said, we kind of get a very general understanding of what it is, how it works. We can figure it out from context clues or from the characters translating amongst each other. But I imagine the Netflix show they're probably going to have someone who creates languages actually work on it and develop it, which would be really exciting to see this on-screen.

OLEG: Yeah, I think the popular guy right now is the one who did Dothraki in the Game of Thrones—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —and everything. So, maybe they'll use him or are using him in, in the Witcher series. [Spoiler alert: they did.]

ALYSSA: Yeah, there's – especially when you look at something like high fantasy like this, where you have a number of different races. It provides, like, a lot more, I think, interesting depth for the way the world works and for the development of these races independent of each other. Yay, evolution.

ALYSSA: Geralt gets his bearings. They realize he's awake. And one of the elves comes over to harass Geralt and Dandelion. And her name is Toruviel. And she just beats them up, I think, seemingly for the sake of it, especially Dandelion, the poor guy. She, like, roughs him around, and then takes his lute and tells him that he, as a human, is unworthy of playing such an instrument. She just smashes it against the tree and throws it at his feet. The narrator does say that Dandelion looked like he was about to cry. She's actually incredibly critical. A very, very, very minor character and, without giving away any plot details, Toruviel, as a character and as a plot device… Just remember her. Like, I'm not gonna say anything more, but just remember her. Her, as a mechanism, she's a wonderful world-building device. So, I would just say just keep her in mind. Just note her in the back of your head.

OLEG: I think Toruviel is a very interesting character. You know, obviously, violent and hateful as, as another character later mentions that she's “sick.” I'm not sure exactly if they're referring to she's sick as in, you know, she has a mental disease or something that makes her violent or if she's sick with hate for humans as we've kind of discussed. One other thing that's interesting, she introduces us to some Elvish phrases. When Garrett is looking at her, she says, “Que glosse?” And then she says, “Que I'en pavienn, ell'ea?” I don't know if I pronounced that correctly. But, so, basically, what she's saying is, “What are you looking at, man ape?” I believe she, she says. He answers, “Nell'ea.” He, meaning Geralt. “T'en pavienn, Aen Seidhe.” From what I understand, that possibly “Nell’ea” is the negation for “ell’ea” what she says is maybe an impolite way to answer, “Nothing,” to a question. And “You're the ape”.

OLEG: From what I understand, the name for them Aen Seidhe [Aen “Shay”] or, perhaps, Aen Seidhe [Aen “Sei-da”]—from what I understand, that means actually “hill folk”, “mountain elves”, because that's where they live now. And, so, he says, “Nothing. You're the ape, hill folk,” which is pretty offensive to her. Insulting, you know, considering that she really looks down on humans. And, um—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: That seems to be a common theme I think in fantasy in general with elves. You know, in Tolkien or even in, like – I don’t know. For example, the Dragon Age games, you'll see that the elves are in decline. They're pushed out by humans.

ALYSSA: Yeah. They do not hold back with the slurs from both Toruviel and the elves as well as Geralt. It's a lot of contempt. Truly, um, racial tension and contempt between humans and elves. And we do see this in the very beginning when Nettly tells Geralt and Dandelion, like, “We don't interact with each other.” Again, this is coming from a local. And we see that on the other side with Toruviel and with the elves.

OLEG: Both sides seem to really dehumanize each other. Well – or “de-elvenize”, whatever. “Depersonize” each other. And kind of it seemed to have the attitude toward the other as if they're dangerous, lower, and barbaric. Toruviel, she really reminds me of a radical youth you'll see and conflict area in our world today and throughout history. So, you'll see people who were there when the conflict started. They remember where and what happened. Maybe they're a little more moderate, even though they're still opinionated. And then you'll have youth who are kind of born during either the brunt of it or after. And they're already more indoctrinated in the propaganda. So—

ALYSSA: Mhmm. That's a good point.

OLEG: So, for example, as you see, even though Geralt or others are speaking Common, she'll just keep using Elven speech, probably, because she would be disgusted to speak, you know, the enemy's language—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

OLEG: —as happens so often.

ALYSSA: She's certainly an aggressor at this stage. It's interesting the note that you make that she's, as you say, indoctrinated into whatever these beliefs are. That she's very radicalized in terms of their ideologies and their way of living. That probably has a lot to do with the nature of, you know, when she was born and the context in which she was living. We have no idea how old she is. So, whether she was around at the time that the elves are pushed to the Blue Mountains. Or, if she was born and raised in that context, and then just has this underlying resentment for something that she, going back to it, could have been entitled to or could have had a right to living in Dol Blathanna. And she just can't, because that's something that was stripped from her ancestors. So, we really don't know. But we do understand that she has a lot of aggression toward Dandelion and Geralt now. And it specifically stems from racial aggression and superiority.

ALYSSA: So, Toruviel, as she's harassing Geralt and Dandelion, Dandelion, specifically, it angers Geralt. She's wearing a necklace. While still bound, he jumps up, grabs the necklace with his teeth, and he yanks her down and starts to tussle her. He's able to break her nose with just his face, and the elves pull them apart. As this is going on, someone makes the command to kill Geralt and Dandelion. And another elf steps into the clearing. This elf is riding a white horse, has beautiful white hair. I think that Geralt and Dandelion have like a brief sense of relief. It turns out that's not necessarily the case. As they start to talk to this newcomer, it’s explicitly said what Torque’s purpose is down in Lower Posada. And Geralt says:

[Reading] “Our sylvan friend is on a special mission in the Valley of Flowers. Am I right, Torque? At the elves’ request, he’s stealing seeds, seedlings, knowledge about farming. What else, devil?” “Whatever I can,” bleated Torque. “Everything they need. And show me something they don’t need. They’re starving in the mountains, especially in winter. And they know nothing about farming. And, before they’ve learned to domesticate game or poultry and to cultivate what they can in their plots of land… They haven’t got the time, human.”

OLEG: Torque, he wasn't there to cause trouble for the peasants. Although, from what I understand by his kind of mischievous nature, he liked to mess with them a little bit as well. He's actually kind of – he wasn't a monster. He's actually almost a hero in his own right trying to help these desperate people, the elves.

ALYSSA: With that context, we meet one of these elves, the “commander.” And as he's talking to Geralt, he says:

[Reading] “It is you humans who hate anything that differs from you, be it only by the shape of its ears. That’s why you took our land from us, drove us from our homes, forced us into the savage mountains. You took our Dol Blathanna, the Valley of Flowers.”

“The world is huge,” muttered the Witcher. “We can find room. There's enough space.”

“The world is huge,” repeated the elf. “That's true human, but you've changed the world. At first, you use force to change it. You treated it as you treat anything that falls into your hands. Now, it looks as if the world has started to fit in with you. It's given way. It's given in.”

Geralt didn’t reply.

“Torque spoke the truth. Yes, we are starving. Yes, we are threatened with annihilation. The sun shines differently. The air is different. Water is not how it used to be. The things we used to eat, made use of are dying, diminishing, deteriorating. We never cultivated the land. Unlike you humans, we never tore at it with hoes and ploughs. To you, the earth pays a bloody tribute. It bestowed gifts on us. You tear the earth’s treasures from it by force. For us, the earth gave birth and blossomed, because it loved us. Well, no love lasts forever. But we still want to survive.”

ALYSSA: This is our introduction to why things are happening the way that they're happening, why the elves have commissioned Torque to steal for them, and why they've asked him to understand agriculture for them, because they have a desire and an innate will to survive. There's a note about Filavandrel and who he is and where he comes from.

OLEG: So, as Alyssa was saying, there is an older elf that comes in, stops the violence, and he introduces himself as Filavandrel aen Fidhail—if the pronunciation is correct—of the Feleaorn family of Silver Towers from White Ships. And then he says, “Now, I'm Filavandrel of the Edge of the World.” It seems like from maybe an influential elven family. I didn't really understand what White Ships were.

ALYSSA: Well, they capitalize White Ships. So, it could be a geographical place. The other thing is that it's commonly known that the elves came to the continent on white ships.

OLEG: That’s what I was gonna mention.

ALYSSA: So, yeah. So, it's one of those things that it could be very literal in terms of some geographical location that has inherited the name White Ships. Or, it could be that it turns out this dude is really fucking old.

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: And he's just like old enough that he was one of the first elves to embark on the continent.

OLEG: But then, also, I think, an interesting point in the whole discussion of whose land is it if they had also arrived. You know, the elves didn't come from this continent. He just seems like a proud elf though more moderate than Toruviel.

ALYSSA: Or, if not, moderate in his views. Even if he has the same views that Toruviel has, he's more restrained in the execution of them. He doesn't come across as, like, this kind of fiery, active angry that Toruviel is. But he has underlying resentment that he doesn't even attempt to hide. But he does strike a conversation with Geralt. There's a ton of exposition in Filavandrel’s discussion with Geralt, not only just from a logistic standpoint that they're having Torque do this but from a very deeper value standpoint. It's almost a point of pride that they haven't used agriculture before, that this isn't something that they ever needed when they had Dol Blathanna on their own. They're curious about it simply for the sake of survival. A part where Filavandrel’s contempt really shows, he starts talking to Geralt. And he and Geralt argue repeatedly about the relations between humans and elves. And Geralt, at some point, tells Filavandrel that they need to cohabitate. It's necessary for their survival for them to get along with humans. Filavandrel says:

[Reading] “Cohabit on your terms? Acknowledging your sovereignty? Losing our identity? Cohabit as what? Slaves? Pariahs? Cohabit with you from beyond the walls you’ve built to fence yourselves away in towns? Cohabit with your women and hang for it? Or, look on at what half-blood children must live with? Why are you avoiding my eyes, strange human? How do you find cohabiting with neighbors from whom, after all, you do differ somewhat?” Filavandrel continues, “Is that what you want to impose on others? The conviction that your time has come, your human era and age, and that what you’re doing to other races is as natural as the rising and the setting of the sun? That everybody has to come to terms with it, to accept it? And you accuse me of vanity? And what are the views you’re proclaiming? Why don’t you humans finally realize that your dominion of the world is as natural and repellant as lice multiplying in a sheepskin coat? You could propose we cohabit with lice and get the same reaction and I’d listen to the lice as attentively if they, in return for our acknowledgment of their supremacy, were to agree to allow common use of the coat.”

ALYSSA: We see here very vividly the struggle between elves and humans. It seems to be a point of pride for Filavandrel. “You don't deserve the sovereignty that you're demanding.”

OLEG: Yeah, definitely. I mean I think this is probably the central most significant part of this story besides that monster quote. I feel like it's, you know, a metaphor and everything forward. First of all, the overall theme of The Other throughout the chapter, you know, fear, hate, and blame, lack of understanding. Historically, things we've seen in our own world, where one population comes and starts to incur on the land of another, especially when it's able to gain superiority in a way to push the other out and push out their culture and everything else as well.

ALYSSA: Whether this is intentional or not on Sapkowski’s part, this idea of Dol Blathanna, definitely, evokes the Garden of Eden and its abundance in what it provides both for elves in predecessor times as well as for humans now. And then you see the exile of these elves leaving the land. They even believe the need to take back what's theirs.

OLEG: For me, it's very reminiscent of the plight of indigenous people all over our world. Historically, the elves, like many indigenous, are viewed on one side as these enigmatic early inhabitants, you know, with old, rich traditions, which is seen actually as non-civilization, but savagery by the colonists or by those, you know, coming in. They have a deep connection to the land, nature, animals, their ancestral lineage. Again, we hear a lot of what we know about many indigenous cultures. They kind of lived with the cycles, and the ebbs, and the flows, whereas, the humans, just like the colonists, take by force, bend it to their will, which is, again, one of the reasons that the elves are starving and in such a bad situation. Just the invention of agriculture can only be done within the context of colonists, who are there to strong-arm and change and manipulate and not just take. And, now that they've changed everything, now the elves need to survive by the means of the humans; meaning, by agriculture and other practices. Maybe similarly to the introduction of, you know, firearms or horses and other things that colonists often brought. And, now, they’re just made up of small broken groups living in a corner of the world that was their own in poverty, pushed to the edges by new commerce. They push, and push, and push. And then they treat the people they pushed out as the dangerous savages and second-rate people. So, going back to the quote about the monsters, they dehumanize them. So, it's easier to excuse to yourself your treatment of these people and think we're doing it to protect ourselves. They're dangerous, you know. But, really, you're exterminating these people.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to unpack here about the history of race relations and the expansion of industry. As you said, the exact thing that we've seen historically that we're again seeing in the world of The Witcher. And this idea of what are the consequences of these racial tensions, what are the effects of it, and how does this play out in the day-to-day interactions and assimilation of these people into human society. So, we're going to see this in all sorts of different contexts. But Sapkowski does make race relations a very strong part of the character-building that drives the Witcher universe.

OLEG: The elves, they–you know, they consider the humans dirty, smelly, stinky, barbaric, you know.

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

OLEG: And they fear their increasing numbers for more breeding, as well as spreading their own more aggressive culture, and that they're afraid will snuff out the original local one. That's what you see a lot of times in Europe about migrants today and throughout history everywhere.

ALYSSA: I mean there is a resurgence of nationalistic overtones and undertones in the way that people are conducting themselves even now. There are definitely lessons to be taken from literature and from history, but also from the Witcher universe about I think the dangers of these nationalistic impulses and points of view.

OLEG: Geralt makes, you know, a pretty good rational argument. “The world is huge. We can cohabit. You know, we can coexist. Why are you being too proud? Why don't you just change with the times? It's coming.” And Filavandrel says, “So, you see yourself as just the natural order that you guys take over everything now?” And I think Geralt really gets them on that. And he's like, “Look at me, I'm kind of not fully human, but I make do. And I'm not too proud.” At the same time though, Filavandrel, I think, makes a great argument. And it applies I think with, again, indigenous people in our world. You know, push them out, and then they live on reservations and et cetera. You know, Filavandrel even said, “We’ll acknowledge your superiority on this continent.” He used it in the metaphor with lice on the–on the coat. 

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

OLEG: They're willing to acknowledge it. Just give them equal rights so to say, because they know to cohabitate, what does it mean? Cohabitate, probably, you know, be pushed into servitude by the humans that you look down upon. And just the human’s culture, just like the colonists, is so innately aggressive. That, eventually, it’s just gonna eat the culture of the elves and break the land, break them, break their society, you know.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: So, he's, like, “We can't cohabitate, because the people offering us to do so—well, Geralt, as a representative, kind of—those people actually wouldn't let us do so on just equal terms even if we gave in and even if we compromise.” And Geralt, he goes on to kind of say, like, “So, why argue with such a louse and blah, blah, blah.” So, I think Geralt is a little bit hypocritical there because then he gets too proud. “Why are you arguing with me? Just kill us,” kind of thing.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Geralt kind of responds with, like a, “Well, fuck you then.”

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: I think he says something that's just short of telling him to screw off. There's actually an excerpt here that I find particularly interesting. Geralt says:

[Reading] “You’re pathetic, with your little stolen sacks of seeds on pack horses, with your handful of grain, that tiny crumb thanks to you, which you plan to survive. And with that mission of yours which is supposed to turn your thoughts from imminent annihilation. Because you know this is the end. Nothing will sprout or yield crops on the plateau; nothing will save you now. But you live long, and you will live very long in arrogant isolation, fewer and fewer of you, growing weaker and weaker, more and more bitter. And you know what’ll happen then. You know that desperate young men with the eyes of hundred-year-old men and withered, barren and sick girls like Toruviel will lead those who can still hold a sword and bow in their hands, down into the valleys. You’ll come down into the blossoming valleys to meet death, wanting to die honorably, in battle, and not in sickbeds of misery, where anemia, tuberculosis, and scurvy will send you. Then, long-living Aen Seidhe, you’ll remember me. You’ll remember that I pitied you. And you’ll understand that I was right.”

ALYSSA: Filavandrel responds:

[Reading]“Time will tell who was right. And herein lies the advantage of longevity. I’ve got a chance of finding out, if only because of that stolen handful of grain. You won’t have a chance like that. You’ll die shortly.”

OLEG: Do you sympathize with Filavandrel’s or Geralt's position more?

ALYSSA: I think, me being me, I would just argue for cohabitation just in general. I’m, like, much of a pacifist. There's very little advantage to be have for just extending life for the sake of living just for the sake of holding on to something that's not death. That's just me personally, where I don't think that pride and a pedigree, like, for lack of a better word, is something that's desperately worth holding onto in this context. I think that it's one of those things where, in order to actually build a fulfilling form of existence for yourself and for your future descendants, it's going to be important to cohabitate. But I think that there's something to be said about the possibility of procreation with each other. And I think the stripping down of ego and pride when it comes to survival. Yeah. I mean, what about you?

OLEG: I think I actually sympathize with Filavandrel’s overall argument. I do feel like Filavandrel argues well for why they haven't cohabitated in an equal, you know, fashion and everything else. I think Filavandrel has a point. You know what? Maybe I'm overly optimistic. And I've just kind of always been a bit of an idealist. So, I've always wanted to live forever. And I think, if you give someone unlimited gos at a problem, eventually, they'll figure it out. So, I think the guy has a good point that, if they can keep trying–kind of like a little roadmap. Like, first, let's get this agriculture thing down more or less to stop starving. Then they can start building like a sick kingdom in the mountains. And then, all of a sudden, it's another light of elven civilization. And then they start sending out representatives to be diplomatic with the humans. Here you are: they’re cohabiting kind of in a Lord of the Rings type situation, where maybe they're really close, but they live well as neighbors. And, eventually, certain ones will interbreed and you'll see the whole continent changing. Geralt has this–again, he talks about why, why die, why ride down from the mountains and kill everyone?

ALYSSA: I mean I think he's anticipating, one day, when they have nothing left to really live for, they're not gonna want to be on sickbeds. Instead of dying just in the mountains, like, I guess, “dishonorably,” they're going to want some sort of fraught death, death that's earned, and death that has some sort of—

OLEG: Dignity?

ALYSSA: —you know, pride or veneration in it. They want to die in battle. I think Geralt can see that even in the way that Filavandrel even just talks about the pride of living. I think he makes the, I would just say, the correct assumption that they would seek pride and death as well.

OLEG: Why does it have to be in the death of those poor Posada residents? You know what I mean? My point is like there's hope for them; either be on equal ground or even winning over.

ALYSSA: As Geralt and Filavandrel wrap up their discussion, Filavandrel orders them bound to trees in preparation to shoot them. This excerpt reads:

[Reading] “I can hear… music…” Dandelion suddenly sobbed.

“It happens,” said the Witcher, looking at the arrowheads. “Don’t worry. There’s no shame in fear.”

Filavandrel’s face changed, screwed up in a strange grimace. The white-haired Seidhe suddenly turned round and gave a shout to the archers. They lowered their weapons.

Lille entered the glade.

She was no longer a skinny peasant girl in a sackcloth dress. Through the grasses covering the glade walked — no, not walked — floated a queen, radiant, golden-haired, fiery-eyed, ravishing. The Queen of the Fields, decorated with garlands of flowers, ears of corn, bunches of herbs. At her left-hand side, a young stag pattered on stiff legs. At her right rustled an enormous hedgehog.

“Dana Meadbh,” said Filavandrel with veneration. And then bowed and knelt. The remaining elves also knelt; slowly, reluctantly, they fell to their knees one after the other and bowed their heads low in veneration. Toruviel was the last to kneel.

“Hael, Dana Meadbh,” repeated Filavandrel. Lille didn’t answer. She stopped several paces short of the elf and swept her blue eyes over Dandelion and Geralt. Torque, while bowing, started cutting through the knots. None of the Seidhe moved. Lille stood in front of Filavandrel. She didn’t say anything, didn’t make the slightest sound, but the Witcher saw the changes on the elf’s face, sensed the aura surrounding them, and was in no doubt they were communicating. The devil suddenly pulled at his sleeve.

ALYSSA: Like, one of the things that I find funny–like, I know she's supposed to be absolutely beautiful and radiant. And, if you see, like, renderings of the Lille/Dana Meadbh, she's stunning. But, at the same time, I just wonder about the actual logistics of carrying around corn on your head. And I feel like that's high-key stressful to just be decorated with fucking corn and that—

OLEG: The hedgehog is hilarious.

ALYSSA: Yeah, the hedgehog—

OLEG: —because I imagined that guy that was a hedgehog–yeah.

ALYSSA: We talked about that in “A Question of Price.”

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: So, in the last episode with Cyprian, “A Question of Price”, we do talk about–in English, Urcheon, who is a… a hedgehog. In any renderings that I've seen of Dana Meadbh, the hedgehog is normal hedgehog-sized. But, when I first read this description, I imagined, like, a waist-high Pokemon-sized, like, hedgehog. And it's a really fucking intense.

OLEG: I imagine like a dude, you, standing on hind legs, and his hedgehog needles are almost like a mullet shape. You know what I mean? He’s that–he’s that guy.

ALYSSA: Oh, so, like Sonic?

OLEG: Maybe he’s Sonic. You know, she was this simple village girl. Now, she’s kind of this teenager went through puberty, and just has all this like shit she's carrying around.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah

OLEG: You know, like, like the Gucci bag, like the hedgehog. You know, typical.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Bb’s got, like, just a lot of stuff.

OLEG: Like a Kardashian, you know, but with like nature stuff.

ALYSSA: This is incredibly interesting, because I think there's a lot that we don't totally understand as readers. Lille comes in. It turns out that she's a goddess and she's a deity, which makes it a lot clearer as to why locals of Lower Posada venerate her. They're drawn to her without really being able to articulate why. And she's not only possibly human deity, but also an elven one, but in a very tangible way where it's not just a religion, like, these elves actually know her as some sort of being.

OLEG: And it's interesting. They interact with her. You could see the way the elves interact with nature and the humans interact with nature. And it reflects on this as well.

ALYSSA: The fact that there are multiple races that have this kind of deity says a lot about the universality of religion or what they kind of value and venerate as different societies. So, there is, as you said, still respect for nature from humans, from elves. And they are represented in this one deity, Dana Meadbh or Lille stops this execution from happening. Filavandrel presumably tries to, like, argue with her. She telepathically communicates with him, and all the elves just saddle up. Filavandrel asks Dana Meadbh to come with them. She just shakes her head and directs them back to the Blue Mountains. And they just leave.

OLEG: She's like, “Nah, you gotta get the fuck out of here,” you know.

ALYSSA: I know. I know. And it's, it's heartbreaking.

OLEG: I don't like her.

ALYSSA: It is heartbreaking to a degree. I think it begs a lot of questions about why these people among this population and in this region.

OLEG: So, there's religions and deities, and it's just how people interpret, right? But what about when you actually meet the being tangibly? Like, how I guess interpretable is she? Because—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —she's right there physically. She looks like this. She says this. She acts like this. So, she's real. You know I mean?

ALYSSA: Yeah. There's not a lot of understanding about how this works. Just after the old woman and Lille leave early in the chapter, either Dhun or Nettly says [paraphrased], “The old woman always takes a new young girl under her wing. And we never know where the young girl comes from, but then the young girl becomes the old woman. And then the old woman takes another young girl under her wing. We didn't know where our old woman came from.”

ALYSSA: The mechanics of, I guess, like a deity–I don't know if it's like possession or something like that.

OLEG: And at what point do they transition?

ALYSSA: That's the thing. It’s like—

OLEG: At what point does the spirit leave the aging woman and go into that next girl walking into the village or wherever she, she is at?

ALYSSA: Who knows? I mean it's, like, does it manifest as multiple people? Or, is it only like, “possession” for lack of a better word of, like, another person? Are these not necessarily people or children that are being taken over? But rather is it just like a new form that materializes where they just create forms that didn't necessarily come from something tangible? It's not really certain. It begs a lot of questions from Sapkowski about, like, “How the fuck does this work?”

OLEG: It's like the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, Lord God, Jesus, Son of God. And then—

ALYSSA: Yeah. We, we don't have any answers, unfortunately. We just know her presence is what makes Dol Blathanna blossom or, at least, I think we can assume as much.

OLEG: Mhmm.

ALYSSA: And that she is some sort of goddess of harvest. We don't know to what extent she, I guess, meddles in human affairs, but she has the opportunity as a “prophetess” to influence the changing of agriculture and of culture in these outposts at the end of the world.

ALYSSA: At the end of this chapter, Dana Meadbh sends away the elves. We see repeated phrasing, which is something that I really love in Sapkowski’s work, where he has continual thematic callbacks. And, in these two small excerpts, it says:

[Reading] Dandelion walked up, pale, and dumbfounded, supported by the sylvan. Lille looked at him and smiled. She looked into the Witcher’s eyes. She looked long. She didn’t say a word. Words weren’t necessary.

ALYSSA: And, a bit later, Geralt addresses Toruviel:

[Reading] The elf nods. From her saddlebow, she took a lute, a marvelous instrument of light, tastefully inlaid wood with a slender, engraved neck. Without a word, she handed the lute to Dandelion. The poet accepted the instrument and smiled. Also, without a word, but his eyes said a great deal.

ALYSSA: So, I just like his repeated use of silence at the end and of being able to communicate wordlessly and universally. There's something nice about this in the context of race relations specifically. And this idea of thematic callbacks is something that we see repeatedly in Sapkowski’s work where he constantly brings about ideas, not only through the saga as a whole but also through specific stories. The third book in the saga, Baptism of Fire, is one of my favorites for this reason specifically because he constantly brings about one specific theme in different contexts. And I love that about his work and we get a hint of it here.

OLEG: I kind of wish they did more talking, because I feel like it's, like, words weren't needed, but the elves and the humans quietly parted without settling their differences.

ALYSSA: There is the end of the section though, where Filavandrel tells Geralt, “I hope Toruviel and I see you when we go down from the mountains to meet our death.” Geralt just says, “I'll try,” or something to that effect. I don't know if there was any real conclusion there. But I think, at least, in this specific moment, there's a certain amount of acceptance I think on Filavandrel’s part. “We're gonna agree to disagree. And I'll see you when it's time for me to die.”

OLEG: Very bleak.

ALYSSA: Yeah. It's pretty–it's, it's pretty grim.

OLEG: I also thought it was–you could tell some of that, like, you know, the world is shit attitude with Geralt when Dana Meadbh first arrived. And Dandelion is, like, “Oh, I think I hear music?”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: And Geralt, like, “Don't worry. It’s just fear.”

ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah.

OLEG: Like, don't, don't be–he's, like, “No, I think I fucking hear music.” And, like, “That happens when you're about to die.”

ALYSSA: Right.

OLEG: Like, the interpretation right away is, like, “Yeah. You're just getting ready to die, man, you know.”

ALYSSA: Uh huh. After the elves leave, we move into Part VI. The Witcher, bard, and sylvan camp. At his companions urging, Geralt reads an excerpt from the Old Booke, which he took from the freemen, about Dana Meadbh. It's not really clear whether Gerald stole this from them or if he talked the villagers out of it. But, yes, so, he inherits this, like, completely priceless book. He adorably reads to the sylvan and the bard around the campfire. I'm going to do my best to read this ridiculous Old English:

[Reading] “Glimpsed she may be, during the time of sumor, from the days of Mai and Juyn to the days of October, but most oft this haps on the Feste of the Scythe, which ancients would call Lammas. She revealeth herself as the Fairhaired Ladie, in flowers all, and all that liveth followeth her path and clingeth to her, as one, plant or beast. Hence her name is Lyfia. Ancients call her Danamebi and venerate her greatly. Even the Bearded, albeit in mountains not on fields they dwell, respect and call her Bloemenmagde.”

ALYSSA: And Geralt continues:

[Reading] “Whence Lyfia treads the earth blossometh and bringeth forth, and abundantly doth each creature breed, such is her might. All nations to her offer sacrifice of harvest in vain hope their field not another’s will by Lyfia visited be. Because it is also said that there cometh a day at end when Lyfia will come to settle among the tribe which above all others will rise, but these be mere womenfolk tales. Because, forsooth, the wise do say that Lyfia loveth but one land and that which groweth on it and liveth alike, with no difference, be it the smallest of common apple trees or the most wretched of insects, and all nations are no more to her than that thinnest of trees because, forsooth, they too will be gone and new, different tribes will follow. But Lyfia eternal is, was and ever shall be until the end of time.”

ALYSSA: So, from this, you know, dated old book, we finally get like a nugget of good, good information. And we kind of get an understanding of–a possible understanding for why she told the elves to leave. It says here that people venerate her and bring her offerings in hope that she'll bring about a good harvest in their fields. But we also see here that the book notes that might be silly because she is tied to a specific land, not harvest as a whole. But she's tied to specific land and we can presume that this is Dol Blathanna. That she's always tied to the land, and she'll be eternal no matter who's actually there. So, it brings about I think, like, an interesting insight into her character’s actions throughout the short story.

OLEG: Going back to whether she's the goddess or just an avatar of the goddess. And maybe–yeah. Maybe it's just one of the avatars. You know, she's kind of a rep for the Valley of Flowers like a company would have, like, northeast rep or the Southern United States, you know. So, she’s just a rep for that area. She just deals with customers “from that area,” you know.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Yeah.

OLEG: And then the elves were, like, “Oh, you know–you know, our Verizon’s down in Canada or whatever.” And she's, like, “Sorry, I’m region New York.” You know what I mean?

ALYSSA: Right. Right.

OLEG: So, right, it's out of my jurisdiction or whatever.

ALYSSA: There's an excerpt. Geralt and Dandelion, and the sylvan are talking:

[Reading] Dandelion asks, “She spoke to the elf telepathically. I sensed it. I’m right, aren’t I, Geralt? After all, you can sense communication like that. Did you understand what … what she was getting across to the elf?” And Geralt says, “Some of it.” “What was she talking about?” And Geralt translates, “Hope that things renew themselves, and won’t stop doing so.”

ALYSSA: It, again, I think doubles down on the description of her in that old book. There's this idea of regeneration, of regrowth. No matter kind of what happens, it's eternal to, to an extent. And [laughs] that's a funny phrase, “Eternal to an extent.”

OLEG: Yeah.

ALYSSA: You know, she's been around forever. Baby girl is going to be around for the rest of time. I don't know. I feel like it's one of those things. There's like a Stoic exercise that's referred to as, like, the view from above, where you look at yourself, and your problems, and your issues as a human, as a person, and as an individual. How important are they, kind of, in the grand scheme of everything that's going on in the world right now, but also over the course of time? And it's, like, mhmm, I could deal with the subway doors closing in my face. Like, in the grand scheme of life, it's not actually that, you know, important. It's not worth getting upset or angry by or passionate about. I feel like that's part of what this discussion is here. Yes, this could change the tide of either the course of elves, the course of humanity, but, ultimately, when you kind of look at the issues that are plaguing these tribes right now, that there's probably something larger at play. And it's going to be fine. It's what I think she tries to get across to them.

OLEG: Right. That's–that's interesting. And I think that's a philosophy, a lot of times, people use to even kind of make people feel more peaceful and calm. But, nevertheless, I feel like we’re all biologically wired to feel bothered by our immediate problems and suffer from them. And, surely—

ALYSSA: And to mortality, too.

OLEG: Right. Right. That might sound good, but, nevertheless, you know, the elves are starving and—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —people die. And, if the subway does shut and not let you go home and get sleep or whatever, you know. So—

ALYSSA: Oh, my god. And then you get, like, a Sliding Doors situation, where your whole life changes.

OLEG: The subway effect.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Yeah. No. I guess it's, like, poetic. It's pretty. And, for me, when I read these things, it's interesting, but I always pick at them in a maybe more base way. Same with Gerald being so, like, “Hope.” You know, just answering with one word or saying before, “Words aren't needed.”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Like, it's, like, come on, bro. You know, just like tell us everything she said, and let's discuss everything. Let's talk about it, because—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: —it sounds nice, but I feel like words are needed. And I'm more of always a supporter of open discussion. Words are needed. Say them.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: Let's use them to figure stuff out. Let's help alleviate people's suffering on a micro level instead of this macro where everything will be alright. Well—

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: This guy is starving now. Let's help this guy. It's not gonna alleviate poverty, but maybe we can help that guy for now.

ALYSSA: Right.

OLEG: And, if everyone does a little bit, you know, I guess ethics.

ALYSSA: I've practiced Stoicism on and off as a philosophy in the last, about two years. So, I've immersed myself in it at different points. It's one of those things that I can see some of the values of Stoicism in Dana Meadbh as a character. I mean the core of Stoicism really hits at this idea of rationality and pro-sociality. And I think that that's something that you still do see in this, this idea of being true to nature, our own human nature, which consists of rationality and pro-sociality. And considering the whole above the self, I think, is part of that as well. And I think that that's a common misconception about Stoicism, but that's something that I find valuable about the philosophy.

OLEG: Yeah. And, speaking about nature, I really enjoy the nature imagery just throughout the chapter. You know, like the descriptions of the mountains—

ALYSSA: Mhmm.

OLEG: —you know, going on forever. The Blue Mountains, the fields, rivers, lakes, greenery, and just the epic idea of the phrase, “The Edge of the World.” 

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: You know, like, I could see it, “Coming soon. The Edge of the World,” you know, or something.

ALYSSA: And you did have a very interesting note about the end of this chapter that you're describing, right?

OLEG: At the end, the very end of the chapter, the story, you have Dandelion. And he's writing about a ballad or he's getting–he's gathering material to write a ballad. And he's thinking of a metaphorical way to say the edge of the world to name his ballad. And he says, “That's too literal. I don't want to call it, “The Edge of the World.” It’s kind of funny, because that's what the chapter and short story is called. And then I guess this doesn't really work in any translation except the original Polish one. But then, as he's coming up with names, Torque says, “Good night,” right?

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: And Torque is “a devil.”

ALYSSA: Yeah.

OLEG: So, it alludes to the Polish idiom, “Gdzie diabeł mówi dobranoc,” which means, “Where the Devil says goodnight,” which refers—in Polish with that idiom—to a place in the middle of nowhere or the edge of the world.

ALYSSA: Yeah, which is very poetic. And I'm–like, I would never, obviously, have gotten that, because they don't have the cultural context around that as like a idiom. But I'm really glad that you brought that up, and that you brought it into it, because it adds this level of poetry to the prose. It's just fucking cool. [Laughs]

OLEG: Yeah. Yeah. And—

ALYSSA: Like, it's a very cool use of language and the original Polish.

OLEG: Right. Right. And, to our Polish friends, if I mispronounce any of those Polish words: Sheprasha.

ALYSSA: So, that takes us to the end of the chapter. That's it for our show today. Oleg, thanks so much for joining us for this episode. And thank you to our Hanza for listening. Where can people find you? And is there anything that our community can help you with or anything you’d like to share with them?

OLEG: Thank you, Alyssa. Thank you very much for having me. This has been a lot of fun, and thank you for introducing me to the series, because it’s, it’s awesome.

ALYSSA: And introducing you to this giant ass blanket fort in my apartment.

OLEG: She's being humble. Professional studio at least. The best place to find me probably on social media, my Instagram. It's Oleg, like my name, O-L-E-G_chucha. (@oleg_chucha) Like, it’s a play on my last name C-H-U-C-H-A. And I'm working on some stuff for Russian podcasts, but there was nothing concrete to mention. So—

ALYSSA: Obviously, if you create anything, I'd be super happy to share it with our listeners in the future.

OLEG: Thank you. Thank you.

ALYSSA: And tell people to support your show. So, next episode, I will appropriately third-wheel one of my favorite couples as we learn how Geralt met his fated love, Yennefer, in the title story, “The Last Wish.”

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with the Breakfast in Beauclair theme by MojoFilter Media and the “Tidings from Toussaint” theme by Bettina Campomanes.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with The Owner of the Churlish Porpoise, coolguyhenry, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob, and Mahakam Elder Joe.

Special thanks to Oleg for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo 
Editor: Krizia Casil

 

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